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Opening 10.6 to 58

mariah kaze

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I don't know why but for all the years I've been using the Internet, I only found this site a week ago, but I am ever so fortunate to have done so now. :bows: My question is clear at the end :)

I am prompted by the I Ching itself to join the discussions here in order to continue to grow in my understanding of the oracles by the cast 10/6 to 58 which I received when I asked about joining a group (which I need to do for myself while I'm waiting a stagnant period of time out). A discussion group of spiritually minded and right intentioned people is JUST what I need to do to continue my own self development. Thank you for welcoming me so warmly.

I have spent the last two days going through the archived posts and find that I have answered ALL my questions regarding a current relationship and am reassured that with time, a reconciliation will be offered to me. I may grow past that relationship, but what I found of value here is the truly amazing gifts of interpretation some of you have. Very broadening and expansive themes have surfaced and I feel that my knowledge of the I Ching will become much more enhanced by connecting with you all here.

So to quote a post in February from Hillary on Hex 10: "Once you have learned the rituals, learned how to relate and interact with the power of heaven, then you may be able to tread, cautiously, behind the tiger."

A little about me: I returned to college at age 42 and earned two bachelors Degrees which have never served any purpose in my life other than to introduce me as a person of some small learning. Now at 61, I have two grown children: boy & girl who have produced 4 grandchildren and 1 great-grandchild so I am a person of some life experience also. Both of my children live a great distance from me. I live in a small mountain community that is geared toward tourism, great wealth and beauty here matched by greed and selfishness. I was born and raised here so I've stubbornly maintained a somewhat precarious foothold in this very competitive atmosphere and making a living has been a grind. I have two brothers and two sisters who live not far and am very close with one sister and brother and their children so I do have family that supports me and I am not entirely without love but my life has become stagnant and stale. I've been taking anti-depressant medication and it seems to be helping but I am very aware of my isolation and the loneliness that prompted me to begin my current, not very satisfying relationship and also to end a very old but unsatisfying friendship that was in a very negative state as well. I should say that I have a dog and a cat for company too and that my little poodle is one of the better lights in my life.

So, with time on my hands (I'm only part-time employed) it seems the perfect time to really STUDY and LEARN the I Ching rituals that will advance me on the path. I picked up the Wilhelm/Baynes translation first in August of 1989 (gosh, that's over 20 years ago!) I have a couple of versions by Thomas Cleary. I have Legge's text too but I seldom refer to it as the translation seems "dull" to me. I am enjoying the Hilary Barrett version very much on line. I cast every day by beginning with "what do I need to know today?" Depending on that answer, I follow with more questions until I am at a stopping point. I admit to sometimes spending hours trying to interpret and that is where this site has become valuable. "The narrowness of the learning of the self-taught" has come clear to me.

So, I am here to plead for help but I hope, also to contribute to the expansion and understanding of ideas here so my treading (conduct) and chasing the tiger has led me to you for discussion and practice in a joyful manner. So finally, I have come to the question of the Day for me. Treading or Conduct to me has meant that right action and right thought come from an unbreakable connection to the Tao that directs us according to the level of our understanding and our willingness to give of ourselves in a correct manner (right thought>>> right action.) So to me, conduct has always meant that I should watch what I think as much as what I say and do. Right thought. To get to right thought, we need to allow ourselves the time to meditate and pray for right answers. Now, I'm (I THINK correctly) directed to talk this over with someone other than the I Ching. I think because my practice has become too focused on the outcome of things rather than taking things as they come and enjoying the process (which I mostly do not!)

It is my own impatience that keeps me from progressing. So please comments on Conduct and Joy and the Rituals and Sacrifices in appeasing the ancestors. Don't hesitate to use the stick. I need to make friends with this Tiger since I've already gotten the tail firmly tacked down :duh:
 

danadanadana

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Hex 10.6 > 58
Conduct is, in many ways, dictated by our family and community in the form of tradition, or even law. It is not inherently right or wrong, is is the rules as we have been taught by our parents, and they were taught by their parents, etc. Different cultures have different rules of conduct, and when we encounter a different cultural reality we are sometimes shocked by the differences in behavior. But this shocking behavior is not wrong, it is only a different cultural influence as taught to them by their ancestors. Different cultures exist in different parts of the world, but culture can also be differentiated by more subtle influences like class, income, race, etc.

10.6: Here you have faced your outdated fears, and now realize that they were, in many ways inherited from your ancestors, and are really just ghosts that can no longer harm you. You can join in your community without fear or feelings of insecurity and enjoy the company of your townspeople if you can release some of the judgements that belong in the past. Those judgements may not be grounded in reality anymore. The best way to approach ANYONE you encounter is with fearless empathy, and an open heart (supported by modest self-confidence).

10>58 Once you get past your negative view of your town (you say people are greedy, selfish, competitive, etc.) you can be more open to talking and interacting with the people who surround you. Connect with people in an open, accepting way and you will be surprised by who you find in your community to connect with and sympathize with. Not everyone is a tiger! Human contact, and conversation is fundamentally necessary for happiness.
 

willowfox

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I am prompted by the I Ching itself to join the discussions here in order to continue to grow in my understanding of the oracles by the cast 10/6 to 58 which I received when I asked about joining a group
Hex 58 indicated that joining this site would be a most excellent choice for you, you can come here talk and discuss to your hearts content, plus you will have the chance to learn from others, receive new ideas and also get clarification into your own readings thus giving you a better understanding, not only about your answers but also about your life as well. Then you can venture into the mystic realms of reading for others.

Line 10.6 says that you will learn from your actions and deeds here, to look back at what you have achieved, then you will know how to proceed to the next step. Learning is a simple progression, like building a house, good foundations will support a heavy load.
 

mariah kaze

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Hex 10.6 > 58
Conduct is, in many ways, dictated by our family and community in the form of tradition, or even law. It is not inherently right or wrong, is is the rules as we have been taught by our parents, and they were taught by their parents, etc. Different cultures have different rules of conduct, and when we encounter a different cultural reality we are sometimes shocked by the differences in behavior. But this shocking behavior is not wrong, it is only a different cultural influence as taught to them by their ancestors. Different cultures exist in different parts of the world, but culture can also be differentiated by more subtle influences like class, income, race, etc.

10.6: Here you have faced your outdated fears, and now realize that they were, in many ways inherited from your ancestors, and are really just ghosts that can no longer harm you. You can join in your community without fear or feelings of insecurity and enjoy the company of your townspeople if you can release some of the judgements that belong in the past. Those judgements may not be grounded in reality anymore. The best way to approach ANYONE you encounter is with fearless empathy, and an open heart (supported by modest self-confidence).

10>58 Once you get past your negative view of your town (you say people are greedy, selfish, competitive, etc.) you can be more open to talking and interacting with the people who surround you. Connect with people in an open, accepting way and you will be surprised by who you find in your community to connect with and sympathize with. Not everyone is a tiger! Human contact, and conversation is fundamentally necessary for happiness.
Gassho

Thank you for your reply Dana (?). I take the concept of Right Thinking=Right Action from (I think, I no longer have the book) from "Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind" in that "right" is equated with "appropriate" conduct. Appropriate means "tailored to" the situation. I admit to having a judgmental personality type (INTJ) and I have to work to bring my judgments to a conscious level of discernment rather than allowing subconscious prejudgments to dictate my responses. Right and wrong are relative to the situation, I agree.

Here, I have difficulty though, with the complete suspension of judgement that many Buddhists seem to advocate. I believe that we should right wrongs done to one person by another and that we must judge the acts of others in the fairest manner possible but to suspend all judgement of others is impossible. Without government, we have anarchy and societies have ever moved toward more government rather than less. We will judge. We are unable to stop our judgments. We are not Buddhas, we are human and people hurt other people. We have to be able to protect ourselves from harm from people who have bad or misguided intentions but we have to examine those judgments constantly to remain "impartial" in our dealings with people. That, as I see it, is "right action" and yes, it depends on the moment. Only by being balanced within ourselves can we make judgement (discern) impartially and take the action most appropriate to the situation, no? It is a source of agony to decide for many people but not for the person who has a firm knowledge of the foundations of society and the mechanisms that work behind the scenes to bring changes upon us. We all need help coping with change, don't we?

You have accurately pointed to the cultural differences in our makeup that condition those knee-jerk responses we've all been guilty of and you are also correct that I have cut myself off from my larger community. There are several factors that I won't go into here that have contributed to that withdrawal. The political climate here is definitely frustrating with controversy over wolves (mainly) and other wildlife that some people want to protect and others want to exterminate, for example. I find it difficult to accept the changes that people who don't live here have wrought upon the foundations of community here. I am not exaggerating the negative atmosphere that prevails. Big money involved.

But, as you point out, there are good people with right intentions on both sides and in fact, I do keep tabs on the way things are moving, I just have had to remove myself from conflict for a time to regain my equilibrium. I found that I was too passionate about the issues to be fair. When I find myself in situations where everyone is shouting to be heard and no one is listening, I retreat. Nothing fruitful can come of this. I will wait for a better time to re-enter the fray :mischief:

But the main point of my post was to discuss the idea of appeasing the "hungry ghosts" of our ancestors. What would be an appropriate offering or sacrifice in modern times to satisfy them and bring things into balance in the spirit realm. Now, I'm not just talking on a personal level here. Society has given up the idea of sacrifice, it seems to me. Parents used to sacrifice for their children. People used to sacrifice for the "greater good". It seems to me that no one thinks it's necessary to sacrifice anything they WANT for someone else to have what they NEED. The idea of sacrifice has been denigrated to Paganistic practice and there we have a judgement applied. Perhaps we should not believe in ghosts? Perhaps the idea of ancestor appeasement is "'old" and does not fit into modern practice? Does anyone actually know or do the rituals anymore? As an arm-chair anthropologist, I find that ritual is most successful in certain circumstances as is prayer. Our society seems to shun ritual as being empty and without purpose. What do you think?
 

mariah kaze

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Hex 58 indicated that joining this site would be a most excellent choice for you, you can come here talk and discuss to your hearts content, plus you will have the chance to learn from others, receive new ideas and also get clarification into your own readings thus giving you a better understanding, not only about your answers but also about your life as well. Then you can venture into the mystic realms of reading for others.

Ha! The thought of reading for others never occurred to me. In fact, for many years I kept the whole I Ching thing very secretive because I ran into a lot of Skepticism from my friends and family. Gradually, as I came to understand a little more, I opened up to one person about it and got a very negative response so I've closed down in that are too - until now. I can see that things will get better from talking here :)


Line 10.6 says that you will learn from your actions and deeds here, to look back at what you have achieved, then you will know how to proceed to the next step. Learning is a simple progression, like building a house, good foundations will support a heavy load.
Interesting: you say look back at what I have achieved - my negativity has had me thinking that I have not achieved my goals in life and that I have not lived up to my "potential". Maybe it's part of my graduation to "senior citizenhood" that has depressed me? You reversed that in one sentence willowfox. Namaste.
 

danadanadana

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Dear Mariah Kaze,
Hex 10 is also about teasing the Tiger and getting away with it because we are humorous and amusing, like the court jester. Humor is another thing that we learn from our culture. What is funny for me may not be funny for you, in fact it may be deadly serious. But there is no misunderstanding amongst kinsmen, they speak the same language on many levels. Line 6 is not about continuing to appease the Tiger with humor as the weapon of defense, it is about BECOMING the Tiger through the magical transformation of maturity. Look back (over your shoulder) and see if your children, either real or metaphorical, who are nipping at your heals are strong, healthy, happy. If so, you have done your work well and you will enjoy the echoes of children laughing and trying to amuse you, if you have not done well then your children will seem irritating or even threatening.

Your "children" are your creations and also your relationships with people in your town. You could be an elder now in more than just age. If you feel it is about sacrifice, then be sure not to sacrifice your own soul's birthright to love and companionship which is necessary for life and health. The ancestors are not asking you to sacrifice your well-being, they need you to transcend their limits and burn up their karma, and by doing so to be happy, not lonely or isolated.
Thanks for a deeply interesting conversation. I honor your insights on the IChing and wish you great success in your future readings.
Sincerely,
DanaDanaDana
 

mariah kaze

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Dear Mariah Kaze,
Hex 10 is also about teasing the Tiger and getting away with it because we are humorous and amusing, like the court jester. Humor is another thing that we learn from our culture. What is funny for me may not be funny for you, in fact it may be deadly serious. But there is no misunderstanding amongst kinsmen, they speak the same language on many levels. Line 6 is not about continuing to appease the Tiger with humor as the weapon of defense, it is about BECOMING the Tiger through the magical transformation of maturity. Look back (over your shoulder) and see if your children, either real or metaphorical, who are nipping at your heals are strong, healthy, happy. If so, you have done your work well and you will enjoy the echoes of children laughing and trying to amuse you, if you have not done well then your children will seem irritating or even threatening.

[snipt and inserted below]

Thanks for a deeply interesting conversation. I honor your insights on the IChing and wish you great success in your future readings.
Sincerely,
DanaDanaDana
I snipt parts of your message and inserted below, Dana

:bows: Humor: I always think of: "laughter is the best medicine". Teasing the tiger - Yikes!

Both of my children are strong, healthy and happy ( with interludes of course). I have a child in my life who was adopted by my sister. He's Asian (Tuvan) in appearance and is the smartest, happiest little boy you could imagine. He is developing skills that are amazing for his age :7. In fact, the New York Ballet School offered him a scholarship to allow him to participate in the local Performing Arts Classes. I just love this kid and he loves me. Thank you for brining the positive to my attention. You're right!

According to most people, I'm a mature matron. It's just that you and I know better, huh? There's something from my childhood that I'm still waiting to have surface - a father issue of some kind. My therp and I are discussing this and I may do an experiment with EMDR. Some unremembered trauma? I doubt it. More likely something misunderstood on my part. I wish it would bubble up for me and I'd be over it in a heartbeat, I know. Given time and patience, it will come up.

My immaturities lie in expecting too much of myself and of others, having a vivid imagination that often turns to the worst-case-scenario kind of negative worrying and of thinking there's a way to solve every problem. I am tenacious. How can a depressive be an incurable optimist too???

Your "children" are your creations and also your relationships with people in your town. You could be an elder now in more than just age. If you feel it is about sacrifice, then be sure not to sacrifice your own soul's birthright to love and companionship which is necessary for life and health. The ancestors are not asking you to sacrifice your well-being, they need you to transcend their limits and burn up their karma, and by doing so to be happy, not lonely or isolated.
DanaDanaDana
Yes. I'm getting it. I joined a Yoga class today. I've been doing Yoga with the Wii and it's done a lot for my balance. I think it will be good for me to have a live teacher and a group to work in too. I'm also going to attend a Sangha for a more formal meditation group because all of you have made me aware that my isolation is self-imposed and that I need to bring more real Joy into my life.

Be the tiger. I didn't know that. I thought all this time that the tiger was something I could be killed by! I don't think gaining more maturity is what will kill me any more. :rofl:

And thank you. I do appreciate your insights to the ancestors although I still don't think anyone has really addressed what I want to know about ritual yet. I think possibly we have to develop that on our own - whatever our "magic" is? :)
 

hooo

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very thankful to find this post and replies today, as i inquired "what would be the result of my former very significant other reading the love poem i have written for her?" and received 10 to 58. the treading of the tiger's tale makes all the sense on an almost humorous level. and 58 is obvious (and hopeful) enough. (earlier i'd asked what would be the result of me initiating conversation and received 23 unchanging.)

thus this from mariah kaze - "my questions regarding a current relationship and am reassured that with time, a reconciliation will be offered to me. I may grow past that relationship ' - was an interesting element of the dynamic.

anyway, a thank you all in the way of a BUMP; i think it's a wonderful thread.
 
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