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peace

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Hi there:
When they say two hexagrams are "paired" is there some way of knowing that? Some chart of book that tells you. Also, when hexagrams are paired, how do interpret them together?

Thanks,
Rosalie
 

jte

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I'm fairly sure that's just based on the order they are in (1-2, 3-4, 5-6, etc) in most translations. According to tradition, I think, King Wen put them in this sequence (but who knows who really did, 3000+ years is a long time).

Other people have doubtless developed their own pairings that differ, but I'm assuming your question is based on the "traditional" sequence.

How to interpret them together... well, I'm looking forward to discussion of that as much as you are! ;-)

- Jeff
 

kevin

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Hi Peace

The Shuogua, 8th wing, explicitly states that the hexagrams are in pairs.

The line text and the names of the pairs of hexagrams also gives the game away in places.

The Shuogua not only says that they are in pairs, but that the first of the pair is the inspirational symbolic representation and the second is the manifextation or realisation representation.

Thus each pair echo's the first pair of Hx 1 and 2.

The pairings are 3&4.... 5&6 etc.

These pairs are complementary opposites rather than opposites in the Cartesian sense.

Like Yin and Yang ? neither can exist without the other. I find I can get a lot of understanding by trying to hold the images of both pairs in my mind at once. It is a tricky thing to do as they resonate in the way polar opposites like black / white do not.

--Kevin
 

hilary

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Does the Shuogua actually say that? I must have another look. Could you quote the relevant bit?
 

lightofdarkness

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The pairings are a natural product in recursion. When ever you see a sequence that shows pairs you are more than likely seeing recursion at work.

For a summary of traditional sequence pairs see:

http://www.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/TradPairs.html;

Click on the links to get details - when in the details click on the hexagram image to take you to another page.

For comments on the pairs in that traditional sequence as well as comments on pairs from the binary sequence, go through the hexagram links in the table at the bottom of:

http://www.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/icpoints.html

Each hexagram page has a number of comments on the pairings.

For a recursive perspective on the traditional sequence, see:

http://www.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/cracked.html

The use of recursion will always generate pairs and since our brains use recursion so you will find pairs all over the place ;-)
 

lightofdarkness

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Rosalie, if you are worried about following links - here is a sample of the pairings text for hexagram 02:

* In the binary sequence hexagram 02 pairs with hexagram 23.

This pairing of 02 and 23 reflects the dominating aspects of pure yinness in the context of differentiating and integrating. Thus the pure integrating nature of hexagram 02, its focus on dual-mindedness, on drawing-in another/others through devotion to, absolute trust in, another/others is complemented by the differentiating element expressed through hexagram 23 where the unconditional devotion of 02 become conditional with the focus in 23 on 'pruning', on cutting-back the 'weeds' that have grown around one's faith to restore the 'core' elements of that faith, to make them the standards upon which we 'rest' (and so the analogy in 23 to stripping a bed where the bed is a symbol for our beliefs, for what we rest upon).

* In the binary sequence hexagram 02 opposes hexagram 01.

This paring of 01 and 02 reflect the total opposition of yangness, of pure differentiation, to the total yinness reflected in pure integration. The originating binary sequence of the I Ching, based on recursion of the concepts of yin and yang, reflects a scale of a relationship of yin/yang where the scale is local at the level of immediate pairs (as in 43/01) and global at the level of distant pairs (as in linking one pole of the sequence, hexagram 02, with the other, hexagram 01). The main distinctions in the 01/02 pair are on the precision of yang, where the unit of measure is a point, and so the ONE, with the approximation in precision of yin, where the unit of measure is always two points, and so a PAIR. We thus see the differences of yin and yang at the level of the human psyche as that between single-mindedness (pure yang - total faith in self) and dual-mindedness (pure yin - total faith in another/others).

At the LOCAL level we are dealing with an octet of hexagrams with the EARTH trigram as base. In this sequence hexagram 02, the dual-mindedness, exaggerated devotional bias nature of yinness, 'opposes' hexagram 12, the focus on neutralising as a force of balance. More so, the exaggerated sense of neutralising the attacks of other upon one's belief is reflected in a more balanced format through one's simple but sturdy, unconditional, devotion.

* In the traditional sequence hexagram 02 pairs with hexagram 01.

This pairing of 01/02 reflects the local differences of pure/mixed expression where at the level of pure expression, as reflected in the PAIRING of the two symbols of yin/yang purity, hexagram 02 is more 'biased' to being interpretable as being a little 'mixed', a little 'softer' in purity, than the absolute purity in expression of hexagram 01.

PURITY:
01 : purity, mindedness - through singlemindedness (total trust in self) 01 purity comes out of a context described by hexagram 28 - excess (too much yang)

02 : purity, mindedness - through dualmindedness (total trust in another/others) 02 purity comes out of a context described by hexagram 27 - hungering (too little yang)

* In the traditional sequence hexagram 02 opposes hexagram 63.

This pairing of 02/63 reflects the absolute differences between pure/individual expression and mixed/group expression. As such, when compared to hexagram 02, hexagram 63 reflects the overall sense of 'groupness', and so of mixing (reflected in the yin/yang line orderings as well) that here must include a sense of closure from a mixed/group focus. In the traditional sequence the pairings reflect a focus on the individual/group, pure/mixed, closed/open, characteristics reflected in the root 01/64 pair that form the 'poles' of the sequence. Thus the relationship of 01 to 02 reflects at the local level the relationship of 01 to 64 as does the local relationship of 63 to 64 reflect the 01/64 relationship. In fact, all pairs in the traditional sequence reflect this general pattern of filtering interpretations through the notions covered in hexagram 01 and hexagram 64.

* The generic properties of hexagram 02 reflect the mixing of the generic properties of hexagram 23 with the generic properties of hexagram 27.

Hexagram 23, in its rawest form of expression, reflects a sense of 'housekeeping', as is required when one is focused on 'pruning'. Hexagram 27 deals with the concept of a need to be filled, a hungering, here interpretable as 'too little yang'. Thus being focused on housekeeping/pruning combined with a focus on hungering reflects the overall extreme nature, the totalism in integrating, in devotion to another/others, of hexagram 02. There is a prime difference in the relationship of pure yin to pure yang. Pure yin will recruit the context to assert identity and in doing so gains protection from that recruitment. Pure yang, on the otherhand, focuses more on REPLACING the existing context with its own, showing the overall focus on differentiating rather than integrating, being competitive rather than being cooperative.

* In the variations on a theme sequence, hexagram 02 complements with hexagram 24.

The pairing of hexagram 02 and 24 reflects the subtle differences in expression focused on the base line of a trigram. Here the 'receptivity' of yangness, as expressed in hexagram 02, is 'hardened' at a general level to be reflected in the focus of hexagram 24 in returning to the 'one true faith'. In pure yinness there is no such need for any particular where the natural devotion skills reflected in 02 elicit immediate, unconditional intimacy.
 
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peace

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Yikes - this is all very complicated.
Basically, if I do this simply -
If I get, for example, Hexagram 5, then I should also read Hexagram 6 and try to see how they relate from the perspective of two complementary points of view??? Is that it?

Do you know of any colleges/universities that are giving courses this summer on I Ching? I live in NY -

Thanks,
Rosalie
 

lightofdarkness

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Hi Rosalie,

Look at the comments for hexagram 05 pairings, (a) with hexagram 6 in the traditional sequence, and (b) with hexagram 9 in the binary sequence, and (c) with its opposite structural hexagram - 35:

http://www.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/x010111.html

What these do is give you some idea about the qualities of hex 05. There is a LOT LOT more, so it could be presented as a summer course (or even a whole year) somewhere - but it isnt - so your best bet is to ask questions on Hilary's list.
(my list is 'biased' to a more universal perspective and so does not focus too much on the traditional material - material that is useful in understanding the roots of the IC etc etc)

It depends what you seek - something local, a divination system etc - or as a universal guide to aid in understanding yourself and your species; divination or philosophy? ;-) Something to use for pathwork development etc etc?

On this list you will get two sets of answers - one set focusing on the traditional, ancient chinese, perspective and the other focused on what is behind that local perspective, a universal perspective where we source the properties and methods of the I Ching in our species and its neurology - IOW the IC is 'in' you ;-)

(I focus on the "Book of Structures" perspective - http://www.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/icstruct.html )

For a local, traditional, perspective LiSe, Harmen, and Bradford's websites fit as does Marshall's site (and they all have links to other traditional perspectives and offer original symbolisms/characters etc and insights into what the 'locals' were trying to do/deal with - all well researched etc but focused strongly on the traditional material).

For the universal perspective, how the IC can do what it does, be what it is, see my IDM websites.
Here we move into properties of the method used to derive the I Ching symbols that are not commonly known and/or presented in the traditional material. These come from understanding how our brains work in deriving meaning etc - some dont like it, some dont understand it, some do ;-)

The former material is what you find in Wilhelm etc. The latter stems from analysis of how we as a species derive meaning and how 'esoteric' disciplines continue to be used - they are metaphors for how our species derives meaning from differentiating/integrating - aka yang/yin.

reading Wilhelm or Alfred's book are but the tip of the iceberg, and those tips are, IMHO, misleading at times but then most of the work in the IC over 3000+ years has developed in an ad hoc manner so there is fiction and fact - and 'traditional' perspectives are hard to give-up and are often treated in 'religous' ways; introducing 'new' stuff to the IC is seen as trying to add new books to the Bible! ;-)

Simply put, there is the 'lite' and there is the 'full brew' on this list - so enjoy ;-)

Chris.
 

heylise

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Hi Rosalie, still there?

There is an YiJing, and there are interpretations. What Kevin quotes is probably Karcher?s interpretation of the Shuo Gua, and the Shuo Gua itself is also an interpretation?
Chris? (Lightofdarkness) view is also an interpretation, a scientific one or something in that realm.
I must say, an Yijing which is not at all an interpretation, is not easy to find: you?d have to read it in Chinese, and even then you?d have to know what the characters actually meant 2 or 3000 years ago. Even the best translation has to be an interpretation, with many guesses and choices for the meanings of characters.

The simplest way to find out about pairs is like this:
If you look only at the YiJing itself, as free of interpretation as possible, then you see hexagram images, and names for them. The hexagram images (the 6 lines on top of each other) do make pairs. When you turn 5 upside down you get 6, 31 unside down is 32, so they have a kind of relation. There are hexagrams you cannot turn upside down, like hex.1, its counterpart is 2, where all lines are the opposite of 1.
The names sometimes have related meanings, but there are also lines in the hexagrams which relate to a similar line in the other hex of the pair.

LiSe
 
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micheline

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Rosalie, If you get hexagram 5, you look at hexagram 5, and then follow the moving lines to the relating hexagram.......There is enough to do with a reading without needing to look into the significance of the pair hexagram. YOu dont want to get too confused at first!

As far as university courses on I Ching, I have not heard of one......maybe NYC might have a course at the OPen Center? OR the New School? BUt I have not seen any in the catalogues thus far.
 
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peace

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Thanks. I definitely am overwhelmed. Altho I've been dabbling for 15 years, there is so much more to learn. I'll take my time with these references and try not to over do it (my tendency).

Rosalie
 

cal val

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Hi Peace...

You've asked a very controversial question actually. The number of DIFFERENT answers you receive might be in the 'astronomical' category... just like the number of DIFFERENT ways to interpret any one line... not to mention a reading.

I like Micheline's answer a lot. Keep it simple. The Yi doesn't want you to do back flips to understand what they're trying to commute to you (but you can if you really want to... *grin*).

Here's something to think about that I hope will set you at ease about reading the Yi and 'pairs'. The following is from a book about the origins of the YiJing, the Zhouyi, by Richard Rutt.

<blockquote>"A pair of hexagrams is reminiscent of the paired columns in which divinatory cracks were made in shoulder blades and tortoise shells; but this is of doubtful significance.

There is no good reason for believing the pairing is of mantic importance. Pairing relates to the hexagrams as visual patterns and is not consistently reflected in the oracles. I have recorded in the notes, so far as I can, all the factors that have been supposed to suggest that the contents of hexagrams and line statements show a fundamental principle of thematic pairing. Much of the apparently significant material shared between oracle texts within a pair is either trivial or likely to be coincidental: many themes appear so frequently throughout the oracles - especially with regard to captures and sacrifices - that it would be strange if coincidences were less frequent.

There are other reasons for doubt. If some paired hexagrams seem to be linked by the use of identical oracles (11:base and 12:base; 41:5 and 42:2; 63:base,top and 64:2,top), they are offset by hexagrams that share oracles but are not paired. (See 10:3 and 54:base and 2.) Again, appropriate thematic pairing can be found between hexagrams that cannot be paired diagrammatically. Hexagrams 45 and 59, for instance, share more of their hexagram statements than some diagrammatic pairs whose claim to thematic pairing depends on similarities in their hexagram statements; and the hexagrams within each of the two pairs with 'major' and 'minor' tags (9/26, 28/62) are not diagrammatically paired. Thematic pairing, if there is any at all, appears to be haphazard and coincidental.

Yet four instances deserve examination."</blockquote>
He goes on to discuss his examination of:

Hexagrams 1 & 2. He says "hexagrams 1 and 2 are linked together by later commentators in a way that is largely a product of the commentaries. These two hexagrams must have attracted attention very early, and have become associated in the minds of diviners because they were the two homogeneous figures. This alone might have led to their appended statements being considered together; yet, apart from the calendrical possibilities mentioned in the Translations Notes, there is little correspondence between them, and that little is of uncertain value."

Hexagrams 15 & 16 - he discusses the animal nature of the tags (rat and elephant) and that the two hexagrams have a strong formal, although corrupted, resemblance.

Hexagrams 41 and 42 - he says they make a contrasting pair by virture of their tags, but then the potential for 'pairness' falls apart in the lines. The contrast is not maintained line by line.

"Hexagrams 63 and 64," he says, "show considerable thematic sharing. The two tags are undeniably linked; but they are not quoted from the appended statements, and they are unique in that their link is narrative, or at least diachronic. There has been some editorial work here, probably mutilation of the text as well, after the establishment of the received order. This pair looks contrived and is not typical of the rest."

And he concludes his discussion of pairs by saying:

<blockquote>"Since the text appears to have reached its present state through the work of several hands over a long period, supposed signs of thematic pairing are likely to be the effect of editing and retouching. Though the Mawangdui manuscript of 168 BC (see page 36) has virtually the same text as the received order, the editors either ignored or deliberately rejected that order. In either case they clearly regarded the pairing of hexagrams as non-essential. Perhaps they missed an important point; perhaps they lived too late for their ideas to be important for our purpose; but their work tends to support the reasonable inference that hexagram-pairing was not fundamental for the compilers and early users of Zhouyi".</blockquote>
It's a lot of information... I know. But the point here is that layers upon layers of commentaries and addendums of all sorts have been added to the Zhouyi over the many thousands of years since it was originally compiled and for many different reasons. And interpreting the Yi is an individual thing. It's your choice really whether you want to include all or any of the layers in your interpretation. You don't have to accept without question what is handed to you. All of it is manmade, and all the different layers (including the Shuogua) were made for whatever reason... agenda... the person(s) who made each layer had.

I personally don't take anyone else'a agenda on as my own without consideration... without question, and that includes the agendas of men of antiquity. I choose to communicate with the Yi one-on-one... without the agendas of others cluttering up our 'air ways.' So I have chosen to read only the original words in the YiJing... the Zhouyi... and work out my communication with them directly. Consequently I don't see any of the pairing that men created many years later. You, of course, can make your own choices as well about communicating with the Yi. And the Yi will tell you better than any person here how to communicate... IF you listen.

Love,

Val
 

cal val

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Hi Peace...

I just want to add something that I think is important here. I first read about the concept of pairing right here in this very forum long before I'd read Richard Rutt's book. And when I read about this supposed pairing, I said, "Huh... where?" The first example of pairing I witnessed here was 37 and 38. And I immediately started looking for evidence to support it. My conclusion, however, after that initial research and study was, "A pair? Yeah... in your dreams... IF you stretch the words like spandex." Then I looked at all the other hexagrams as well for pairing. And I determined that to make pairs out of most of them required adding a very high percentage of spandex to the fabric of the book. I came to very much the same conclusion Richard Rutt did for a lot of the same reasons. Many of the contiguous hexagrams just did not pair in meaning... but other hexagrams that weren't contiguous did in one way or another. Consequently, I was delighted to read corroboration of my own suspicions when I finally read Richard Rutt's assessment of pairing. And that's why I shared it with you today.

Love,

Val
 

hilary

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Or for the alternative view, see Karcher's Total I Ching, and especially the recording of the webinar where he talked about how it works in practice, in more depth. (End plug.)

Bottom line: does it work in divination? It does for Kevin, does for me, doesn't for Val. Only one way to find out if it does for you: play around, experiment a bit. There are no 'shoulds' here.
 
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micheline

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Yes, I was going to mention the webinar, but oops, I forgot to order the cd, and as a result, what was discussed there is kinda foggy to me now. sigh. although I remember being newly fascinated by the talk about pairings......something I hadn't even considered before.
Ahhhh, so much to learn, so little time....esp in light of the pending 2012 ; )

When it comes to the Yi, there are conceivably layers and layers of meanings to one reading, and part of the beauty is that it speaks beautifully on each level as well as on all. It is kind of like a night time dream....all depends on how deeply one wants to look.
 
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bruce_g

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Hi Rosalie,

As a psychologist, you know that how you approach one client/patient may be different than how you work with another. A good psych can be versatile, rather than sticking with one methodology or teaching. Working with the yijing is no different. If you are inclined to being pragmatic or intuitive, that is your way. Fortunately, Yi seems extremely accommodating (not to mention patient!) in this regard.

I think you?ve received some excellent answers to your question, here, even if the answers weren?t all in agreement. You?ll find this is the case with other aspects of working with the Yi, too. Methods, personal priorities and aptitudes all play into the interactive quality of the IC. Some see it as an exchange with deity, guides, ascended masters, etc. Some see it as a ?recursive? neurological phenomenon. Some see it God. Some see it as a philosophical metaphor. Some see it as all of those things, plus some others I?ve left out.

How you see Yi will depend upon your own way of seeing. Stay true to that and the Yi will work with you. Bottom line, really. They all take discipline, enthusiasm and time.

Best on your journey,

Bruce
 

lightofdarkness

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In response to Val's last post above:

ALL of the PARTICULAR and so LOCAL meanings reflect association of UNIVERSAL qualities linked to some LOCAL context. This will create a 'small world network' and in doing so will miss the 'full spectrum' of what the IC represents.

Thus, from a universal perspective, and so vague, in need of local context to be grounded, 37 and 38 pair to reflect Rigidity.

37 : ridgidity - through structure (tension releasing)

38 : ridgidity - through perspective (tension reducing)

LOCAL context, as in 10th century BC China, will add local 'colour' and so the FEELINGS represented by the hexagrams are expressed through links to local context; analogies to local events etc (and so 10th century BC history etc)

If you focus only on this LOCAL context, as in the common focus on translating 10th century BC interpretations without taking into consideration universals (and recent work on how we derive meaning etc), then you will miss a lot (as Rutt does but then his focus is strongly 'local' and so
'small world' oriented. In that context he does fine but there is a LOT more going on with the IC and/or what it represents - as such Rutt, and most other 'traditional' interpreters/translators are so focused on the trees, the LOCAL, that they will more than often miss the forest -a BIG forest, with MANY classes of trees, collectives etc etc)

If we fold back such hexagrams as 37 and 38 to their unconscious expressions - as in vague feelings, then we have:

37 - a context of bounding (fire), a boundary that sharply differentiates what is inside from what is outside, but is also pushing outwards and so converting difference (outside) to sameness (inside). Inside this context is operating a text of binding - sharing TIME with another/others (wind). This sharing of time relates to such concepts as cultivating, becoming influencial.

The rigidity here is in the structure, the tight control that allows for tension release when you enter that structure - be it a family, clan, corporation - every one knows their place and so there is no competition 'first son is first son' etc

38 - a context of bonding (lake), the sharing of SPACE with another/others in the form of some audiance etc, within which is operating a text of bounding (fire again). Here we have that sense of 'us' vs 'them' operating in a context that is more in favour of being cooperative rather than a 'cut'.

The 'solution' is to keep the "us vs them" perspective hidden behind a 'mirror' where they seem themselves in you and so leave the "you behind the mirror" alone. IOW the rigidity here is on maintaining one's personal perspective in a context that is not in agreement with that perspective. (Showbiz does this a lot where the 'mirror' is in the form of a new name/persona that is expressed but different to the 'home' name/persona)

Reading 'traditional', LOCAL material will not give you what is trying to be expressed due to the ad-hoc manner in which that material has developed .

That said, the universal material is 'vague' in that it deals with qualities derive from the species neurology in general. BUT it acts to GROUND what we are dealing with IN US - IOW what the IC represents, it being a metaphor, is our nature and so reflects each of us and so all of us. That nature is rooted in a PAIR, differentiating/integrating, such that that dichotomy, or its syonyms (e.g. yang/yin) 'determine' our being. BUT, given evolution, so that determination is derived from internalising aspects of 'out there' - we reflect properties and methods of the universe and those properties and methods are sourced in differentiating/integrating - a pair.

Chris.
 
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bruce_g

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"The 'solution' is to keep the "us vs them" perspective hidden behind a 'mirror' where they seem themselves in you and so leave the "you behind the mirror" alone."

Chris - How Zen of you!
 
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simple_complexities

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Exactly as Jte said, King Wen organised the current hexagrams, and 1 Force and 2 Field are the mother and father of the I Ching, so they are quite rightly paired at the start of the Oracle.
Kevin said "Like Yin and Yang ? neither can exist without the other." Absolutely, but the rest of the I Ching is not paired 3-4, 5-6, 7-8 etc, this only shows the sequence or energy as it moves from one polarisation to another. So begs the question, which came first, Yin or Yang? And if your sensible, and dont respond "yin, because this is the inspiration to the manifestation" (how can yin manifest or become inspired without a yang presence), then you will answer both. Yin AND Yang is energy in its balanced state, both exisiting at the same point in time and space, therefore when pairing we should also look for harmonizing each energy into its balanced state. Example, 25 without embroiling is the natural opposite to 46 ascension; on each line the energy balancs itself. There are numerous ways to pair hexagrams, but logically the whole of the I Ching is just 2 energies resonating on 6 levels, and ignoring 1, and 2, the I Ching is just 32 energies set in opposite to each other. Versatility is the key, be imaginative, no one has discovered the secrets to the energy pattern yet, so nothing is made in concrete.
 
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simple_complexities

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Just to emphasise the fact that the current order of the I Ching has not always been the same, we can look back at the Earlier Heaven arrangement (as formulated by Fu Hsi). This model looked completely different to the one King Wen inherited us. Its worth noting that during the Earths long history, it has flipped its polar magnetic field many times, dendrochronology and carbonradio dating has proved this. It is reasonable to surmise that the earlier heavenly arrangment was indeed akin to the previous magnetic cycle, for when we look back at the time period of thew current I Ching arrangement and estimates of the last polar flip, the dates are excitingly close. Comparing these two systems gives you a greater understanding of the processes at work, and how to pair etc.
 

hilary

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Hello, SC, nice to have you. This might be a good moment to mention that the Earlier Heaven arrangement is almost certainly a good deal younger than the King Wen arrangement. Not that this makes any difference whatsoever to the use of both arrangements for interpretation and seeking out patterns.

Um, what else. Minor detail: yin would be thought of as manifestation, yang as inspiration. Yes, of course both arise together or neither at all: you can't have a river with one bank or a mountain with one side...

We're looking at two different kinds of pairing here. There is the opposite/complementary pairing, like 1 and 2, 27-28, 29-30, 61-62 - like the play of light and shadow. And there is the inverse pairing - like looking across the same river from the opposite bank. (And there are also 4 pairs that are both inverse and opposite.) There are fascinating ideas on how these varieties of pair are different in Jane Schorre and Carrin Dunne's book, Yijing Wondering and Wandering.
 

hilary

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Oh - King Wen trigram arrangement, I mean, aka Later Heaven.
 

lightofdarkness

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The binary ordering reflects what is going on in our brains 'naturally' - in that reflection we cover yin as POTENTIAL and yang as ACTUAL. This perspective reflects the asymmetric form of yin/yang, the dynamic of consciousness extracting a particular from a pool of potentials and so general.

ONCE EXTRACTED so further analysis will then focus on symmetric perspectives and so opposites where the 'forces' of yin and yang are considered equally balanced as light vs dark. THEN comes the hierarchic development where we move from light/dark to male/female etc

The representions of these qualities in the form of yin/yang lines etc allows for both forms of dichotomy to be represented as it allows for the hierarchy to be represented.

Pairing occurs in all of this since the unconscious methods we use are rooted in recursion of a dichotomy. (indetermined states are expressed in wave forms, as covered earlier in this thread)

The asymmetric form of analysis means that all expressions of hexagrams are exaggerations from the 'balanced' state, with the most energetic being the realm of mediation - all of the heaven-based hexagrams.

Chris.
 

kevin

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email has been down.

I agree - keep it simple at first.

I disagree that pairings are haphazard.

They appear to be complimentary opposites. That is that though apparently opposite they are co-dependant like light and dark - one implies the other.

Re. Shuogua:

My memory is possibly playing tricks.

I have had a quick skim read and did not see it in either Wilhelm?s or Wu Jing Nuan?s translations.

I will search more thoroughly later. I seem to remember it was quite sublely put and when I saw it I was not surprised I had missed it in the past.

Or was it this I had read?

Dazhuan

11.4 ?Therefore they called the closing of the gates the Receptive and the opening of the gates the Creative. The alternation between closing and opening they called change,? (Trans. Wilhelm / Baynes)

--Kevin
 
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peace

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Hey everyone:

Seems like I opened a Pandora's box!
Thanks for all the quick responses.
I read over the link on pairings and as some of you said - some fit more than others.

I'm going to re-read/read Wilheim and Huang and play with the metaphors of the hexagrams myself. It's the individual lines that sometimes seem so subtle where I'm looking for more clarity.

When lines contradict - I read that you read them in order. Do you all agree with that?

Also - when they say something like, "Yang line in 5th place of authority - with yin line in 3rd place submitting.....(from the guy who wrote the Illustrated IChing - I don't have it here now), that's where I need more understanding.

Any help is appreciated. You all are terrific - glad I found you.

Rosalie
 

clarissa

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I recently received these two readings. The questions were related to the same issue...but different:

7.2.5 -> 8

and

8.2.5 -> 7

What's the significance of this given the fact that 7 and 8 are seen as a pair in the traditional sequence?
 

lightofdarkness

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Most of the pairs in the traditional sequence are derived from rotating hexagrams - so rotate 7 you get 8. In 7 and 8, changing 2.5 will reflect the 'rotation' of one into the other - IOW there need not be any association. That said, the PAIR deals with:

07 : uniformity - through structure

07 uniformity comes out of a context described by hexagram 41 - concentrating, distilling (07 is the controller of line position 2 - a position associated with supervisors etc)

08 : uniformity - through unify

08 unify (passive attraction) comes out of a context described by hexagram 42 - augmenting (08 covers passive attraction, going to the court as it does not come to you - controller of line position 5 - the king/ruler etc)

In the binary we can flesh this out where 08 shares space with 20 - both deal with attraction, 08 unconditionally, 20 conditionally.

07 pairs with 04 and a general focus on socialisation but imposed, be it by a 'military', unconditional focus or on a particular form of socialisation - education of the mind.

Chris.
 

heylise

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With contradicting lines I never have any problem, because I read them as referring to different aspects of a situation.

Line 1 can be about your immediate action, and 5 about how to discuss it with your family. If 1 says 'don't do anything yet!', and 5 says 'talk with them, immediately!' they don't contradict each other.

Those different aspects can mean different moments in time, like do this first, and then that. But just as well they can talk about your attitude to your child and to your friend... about your feet and about your head... about your practical actions and your ideas... about at home and on your journey.

It depends all on the question you asked.

LiSe
 

hilary

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I'm sure you can guess the first thing I'll say: it depends on the questions.

But in general (necessarily very general), I would guess you have an issue that centres on the issues of 7 and 8, and asked two questions that approach that issue from opposite perspectives. What Yi's giving you here is a 'space to think in' or a space to find yourself in, the space between the Army and Seeking Union.

There is the work of focussing, taking personal responsibility, and 'campaigning' for the result you want. And there is the question of what you do want, what you choose to create, whom you choose to join with. Determination and doing what's necessary on the one hand; free choice in a world without fear or compulsion on the other. The work of banishing demons, the choices and possibilities that arise when they're overcome.

There is a whole lot to be said about the lines, too... (and I have only a few minutes, so I hope someone will fill in more)

7.2: being at the centre of the army, not one of those generals who supervises events from a hilltop safely behind the lines. And because you are putting yourself at the heart of things, you have a true mandate, you have the opportunity to do important things.

8.5: how this kind of leadership works out in practice. Showing yourself, encouraging what or whom you want to come to you, but not forcing or blaming.

Both these lines pivot on Hexagram 2, the Earth. Being open, providing what is needed. Not setting conditions on that.

I need a little more time myself in the 'space between' 7.5 and 8.2. These two go round something darker, Hexagram 29, the Repeated Chasm: learning the dangers of the Pit, 'holding fast your heart' and going in, realising you can't keep on tiptoeing round the edge.

7.5: game in the field, what you're looking for is out there. So now it is good to hold back and talk and/or think about the business of getting it. This is a different level of leadership from the general in the midst of the action. Just going for it in the usual way, carrying the weight of precedent with you, may not work any more.

8.2: ...because joining together has its origin inside. Nowhere else.

Does this cast light on what you were asking about?
 

clarissa

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Hilary,

It does indeed shed light on what I was asking about..yes. Thank you for taking the time to respond.

It's an unusual situation, completely without precedent...so 7.5 and the idea of forgoing the usual way of doing things really fits.

In truth, the question that received the
7.2.5 -> 8 reading was about a time frame...so I'm not sure how easy that is going to be to interpret. However, as I said...7.5 seems very pertinent and I think it's probably telling me something ABOUT the situation.

The question that received the 8.2.5 -> 7 reading was about someone's preferred course of action..and it seems to be a fairly straightforward answer: Someone having an internal commitment to join with others AND the will to carry it out in reality...the will to "take the plunge".

Regarding your comment about how both 7.5 and 8.2 are revolving around 29...

Very interesting! The situation's extremely unusual character does indeed carry with it an aspect of danger or risk taking. In a situation like this one must be willing to jump in...or come to a complete halt. A middle course doesn't exist. I found Bradford's key words for 29 very revealing...especially:

"the way out is through" and "the will to live"

Wasn't there a scene in "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" where they come to a cliff and must jump into the river below? That came to mind here It also made me think of "The Matrix" and taking the red pill.

I found it curious that I received these two answers back to back..which is why I asked. I'm still not sure what I think of the Yi...but I do find it very interesting. I'm keeping notes!
happy.gif
 

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