Please help me interpret hexagram 9.6 to 5, I'm in a very difficult situation.

[matrixman]

Thank you for reading and engaging with my question. As of late I've been more or less in a state of catatonia as a result of the predicament I've placed myself in. Without going into too much detail, my actions at a stage in my life where I was severely dependent on alcohol to function caused certain people to despise me and spread rumors about my ill conduct. It's been a few years and I've managed to gather opportunities for myself that I've always dreamed of and never thought possible. The problem with these opportunities is they would require me to build a somewhat public profile. My primary concern over all of this is will it all come crashing down like jenga if I pursue these opportunities? Will public scrutiny cast me a villain? Or will I be able to persevere?

I've been grappling with the thought that maybe I should confront these people and hopefully bridge a gap in understanding, to hopefully put a stop to the rumors and nip them in the bud or at the very least lessen the reach, or if I should ignore it?

When I phrased my question to the IChing I phrased it as "if I continue on this path will it lead to shame and pain or will I be able to accomplish all I've dreamed of". I got 9.6 to 5. I don't know if this is in regards to my idea of trying to engage with the people I've wronged to make amends or just in general to the situation.

What's more crazy is I've been noticing the numbers 95 and 777 (the lower trigram is all solid lines) everywhere for the past few months before the divination so I can't help but feel this reading is significant and accurate. I would appreciate any insight this is the single most painful/frustrating experience I've ever been through and I would like to know how to proceed thank you.

 

[Willem D]

Hi Matrixman,

The way I see it is like this,

To understand line 9.6 I first look at hex.9 in general.
The title of hex.9 is Passive Restraint.

Passive Restraint brings about progress and success. We see dense clouds, but no rain coming from our western borders.

Dense clouds, but no rain. When there has been a long dry period, we wait for the rain to come, especially farmers. The rain is the solution for their problems with the crops. They see the solution coming their way, but it is not there yet.

In line 6 the rain has come

It is raining; one can rest, respected for one's virtues. Continuing to hesitate like a woman brings danger; the moon is almost full. If the superior man sets forth, misfortune.

The relating hexagram is 5 Waiting

Waiting intimates that with sincerity and firmness there will be brilliant success and good fortune. It will be advantageous to cross the great stream.

Using hex. 5 as context, I see this as;
By waiting the solution will present itself in your situation.

On a personal note;
Don't let the past influence the now and the future. Things happened and if you own them and take responsibility for it, what does it matter what other people think or say.
Be proud of yourself that you found the strength to overcome a difficult situation and don't listen to the peanut gallery that always will find a way to put people down.

Good luck and I hope this will be helpful.

 

[matrixman]

Hi Matrixman,

The way I see it is like this,

To understand line 9.6 I first look at hex.9 in general.
The title of hex.9 is Passive Restraint.

Dense clouds, but no rain. When there has been a long dry period, we wait for the rain to come, especially farmers. The rain is the solution for their problems with the crops. They see the solution coming their way, but it is not there yet.

In line 6 the rain has come


The relating hexagram is 5 Waiting


Using hex. 5 as context, I see this as;
By waiting the solution will present itself in your situation.

On a personal note;
Don't let the past influence the now and the future. Things happened and if you own them and take responsibility for it, what does it matter what other people think or say.
Be proud of yourself that you found the strength to overcome a difficult situation and don't listen to the peanut gallery that always will find a way to put people down.

Good luck and I hope this will be helpful.

I appreciate the response. That's how I've read it so far though I'm not sure in what way the rain has come for me. Perhaps it's in a way I've yet to ruminate on.

I appreciate the advice as well, I'm usually not one to be bothered by what people have to say as it's just idle chatter however my worry is that it will damage the opportunities I've been presented with. I do however take the Hexagram 5 judgement of waiting in good cheer to heart. Perhaps that points to a positive resolution based on the attitude this situation is approached.

 

[moss elk]

Appreciate and respect the progress in yourself & your reputation that you have made so far,

It's been a few years and I've managed to gather opportunities for myself that I've always dreamed of and never thought possible.

No need to do more in regards to confronting people:
In fact, the advice is that to go an expedition to vindicate yourself would fail.

There isn't much wisdom in yelling,
"I'm not a jerkface, jerkface!!"
people wouldn't tend to believe that person. Right?

 

[Willem D]

That's how I've read it so far though I'm not sure in what way the rain has come for me.

That is what hex. 5 Waiting is about .

 

[matrixman]

Appreciate and respect the progress in yourself & your reputation that you have made so far, no need to do more in regards to confronting people: in fact the advice is that to go an expedition to vindicate yourself would fail.

There isn't much wisdom in yelling,
"I'm not a jerkface, jerkface!!"
people wouldn't tend to believe that person. Right?

My query to the Iching was essentially will setting forth on this journey yield a happy ending. One devoid of past failures tainting future successes. So is the Iching responding more so to my current situation in particular? In that the confrontation I have been contemplating is futile even though the question wasn't phrased as such?

 

[moss elk]

My query to the Iching was essentially will setting forth on this journey yield a happy ending. One devoid of past failures tainting future successes. So is the Iching responding more so to my current situation in particular? In that the confrontation I have been contemplating is futile even though the question wasn't phrased as such?

Yi is responding to all three things:
1-Your past.
2-Your present.
(appreciate what you've already accomplished, any rain/blessing that has already fallen upon you)
3-and the idea of confronting the people.
(the expedition would fail)

Even when our minds aren't very clear in our questions, we still get a response that is wholly applicable to what's going on inside and/or outside us.

 

[matrixman]

Yi is responding to all three things:
1-Your past.
2-Your present.
(appreciate what you've already accomplished, any rain/blessing that has already fallen upon you)
3-and the idea of confronting the people.
(the expedition would fail)

Even when our minds aren't very clear in our questions, we still get a response that is wholly applicable to what's going on inside and outside us.

Thank you for the responses it truly is appreciated from my end.


I have one more question regarding interpretations of the Iching. I'm reading the Wilhelm version of the Iching and in Carl Jung's preface to the book he states that the verses should be read in context of the situation including minutiae details which may or may not seem significant. How is that applied correctly? He gave the example of hexagram 50, ting, wherein the Iching describes itself as the pot.

My question is how far do I go in my interpretations? Could the masculine and feminine be interpreted literally in the verses as in real characters rather than the spiritual concepts? And could potentially the environment alter the text? For example in hexagram 5 it says It furthers one to cross the great water. In my situation there literally is a body of water separating myself and the people I was considering confronting, which is why I was a little bit confused as to how to interpret this. I thought it maybe meant that wait to confront until the right time but does hexagram 9 line 6 dash that possibility completely?

 

[moss elk]

My question is how far do I go in my interpretations?

To the moment of comprehension,
It is usually recognized as a spontaneous, "aha!" Followed by great certainty.
If you aren't getting a reading, write it down, take a break, go back later, repeat.
And you can always reach out to the lovely people here that volunteer to help.

Could the masculine and feminine be interpreted literally in the verses as in real characters rather than the spiritual concepts?

And could potentially the environment alter the text? For example in hexagram 5 it says It furthers one to cross the great water. In my situation there literally is a body of water separating myself and the people I was considering confronting, which is why I was a little bit confused as to how to interpret this.

Yi has a great mix of metaphor and symbolic/literal.
Experience is needed to discern which line or phrase is which type.
If it sounds like a metaphor (the cocks crow reaches heaven)
It probably is a metaphor.
If it describes a pattern or action... that is often the answer, literally.
Sometimes Yi mixes up the genders and we still have to follow along
(eg: A male receives 54 and Yi calls him 'the marrying maiden')
(Crossing the great water is a metaphor, meanings are involved in the few compass directions mentioned here and there,
they are not literal anymore.)

I thought it maybe meant that wait to confront until the right time but does hexagram 9 line 6 dash that possibility completely?

Yes, dash it.
Grow beyond... the inner impulse to confront them.
You can move on and prosper without that burden.

 

[matrixman]

T

To the moment of comprehension,
It is usually recognized as a spontaneous, "aha!" Followed by great certainty.
If you aren't getting a reading, the lovely people here will volunteer to help.




Yi has a great mix of metaphor and literal.
Experience is needed to discern which line or phrase is which type.
If it sounds like a metaphor (the cocks crow reaches heaven)
It probably is a metaphor.
If it describes a pattern or action... that is often the answer, literally.
Sometimes Yi mixes up the genders and we still have to follow along (eg: A male receives 54 lines and it calls him 'the marrying maiden')
(Crossing the great water is a metaphor, as are the few compass directions mentioned here and there,
they are not literal)


Yes, dash it.
Grow beyond... the inner impulse to confront them.
You can move on and prosper without that burden.

Thank you. Your perspective is very valuable in my eyes.

 

[matrixman]

To the moment of comprehension,
It is usually recognized as a spontaneous, "aha!" Followed by great certainty.
If you aren't getting a reading, write it down, take a break, go back later, repeat.
And you can always reach out to the lovely people here that volunteer to help.




Yi has a great mix of metaphor and symbolic/literal.
Experience is needed to discern which line or phrase is which type.
If it sounds like a metaphor (the cocks crow reaches heaven)
It probably is a metaphor.
If it describes a pattern or action... that is often the answer, literally.
Sometimes Yi mixes up the genders and we still have to follow along
(eg: A male receives 54 and Yi calls him 'the marrying maiden')
(Crossing the great water is a metaphor, meanings are involved in the few compass directions mentioned here and there,
they are not literal anymore.)


Yes, dash it.
Grow beyond... the inner impulse to confront them.
You can move on and prosper without that burden.

So uh... some recent developments have occurred which changed everything about my situation. Essentially the situation has developed in a way in which this would be my last opportunity to confront them before I will forever lose that chance. I can't help but feel all these developments are more than coincidence. As a result of that I consulted the Iching specifically as to whether or not to confront these individuals, as I couldn't get the 'subtle influence' portion of hexagram 9 out of my head. I ended up getting hexagram 28. Could the situation to have waited for been this? As hexagram 28 points to a perilous situation where action must be taken. Or should I ignore this latest hexagram?

I appreciate the response despite it having been a while since this question has been opened.

 

[moss elk]

28 situations are too intense,
the roof is going to collapse.
The advise is to get out of the situation.

Bradford- The noble young one, accordingly, stands alone and undaunted And steps back from the world without sorrow.


Notice this reading does not conflict with the 9.6 reading.

If you want to learn the hard way about ignoring Yi's warnings, you certainly have the ability to disregard the readings.

There was one time that I chose to ignore a warning from Yi.
It resulted in a car-tire blow out while driving. (near accident + expensive repairs)

Things could get more intense than you imagine here.

 

[matrixman]

28 situations are too intense,
the roof is going to collapse.
The advise is to get out of the situation.

Bradford- The noble young one, accordingly, stands alone and undaunted And steps back from the world without sorrow.


Notice this reading does not conflict with the 9.6 reading.

If you want to learn the hard way about ignoring Yi's warnings, you certainly have the ability to disregard the readings.

There was one time that I chose to ignore a warning from Yi.
It resulted in a car-tire blow out while driving. (near accident + expensive repairs)

Things could get more intense than you imagine here.

Thanks for the well thought out responses.

I'm definitely not trying to ignore the Iching. Matter of fact everyday I'm more and more sure that whatever spiritual agencies are out there are trying to get me to pay attention to it. I pay attention to the minutiae coincidences in day to day life and it startles me how they all point to a message trying to be conveyed. It's just that this is the first time I've ever done readings and the situation I'm in really is one of the most important/difficult decisions I've ever had to make so I'm trying to be 100% sure I'm reading what the Iching is trying to convey correctly. I know the Iching is very complex and there is a lot of misinformation and alternate interpretations on the web which have flung me into a confused frenzy so I'm just trying to make sure I understand what's going on.

The fact that I chose to consult the Iching right as my situation has started to morph and change cannot be coincidence to me. My life has been stagnant for awhile and suddenly there's movement.

What would the subtle influence portion in hexagram 9 mean then? I was under the assumption that subtle influence would've meant that I would have to try to reach an understanding with these people? Or could that just mean working oneself? On top of which Hexagram 28 says it furthers one to have somewhere to go so I assumed maybe 9.6 and 5 were telling me to wait for this moment to move. Or is hexagram 28 in this instance pointing to having to wait out this storm? The ridgepole being at the breaking point is certainly a worrisome statement to me. Could the ridgepole be meant to represent my anxious mind state perhaps giving into the temptation of confrontation? Hexagram 28 reads to me as a tense situation that requires action, could the action required be inaction?

I was also wondering does Hexagram 5 point to success if waiting is done the way it was supposed to? Is ultimate success what it points or is that too optimistic an interpretation? My original question was pertaining to whether or not I would be able pursue this path without the past causing me to fail. Does Hexagram 5 point to success if waiting is done correctly?

Sorry if my incessant questions are a bit of a nuisance I just really want to take the right steps to secure what I've always wanted out of life.

 

[moss elk]

What would the subtle influence portion in hexagram 9 mean then? I was under the assumption that subtle influence would've meant that I would have to try to reach an understanding with these people?

You are reaching into trigram interpretation, which can miss the forest for the trees. Roughly 3k years ago,
the trigrams were contemplated and assembled into hexagrams and the text was written. (there is no need to reinvent the wheel)

Or could that just mean working oneself?

There's 9 for you.
Raise the chickens,
work on what you can,
polish yourself.

On top of which Hexagram 28 says it furthers one to have somewhere to go

The place to go is anywhere outside of the building/situation asked about that will collapse

What many alcoholics fail to aknowledge and restrain is there own thunder/intensity.
(righteous indignation is generally much overrated, and often confused with things like indigestion or moods)

(I don't say this without reason:
I was raised inside a tavern,
I've worked as a bouncer.
much observation and experience here)

so I assumed maybe 9.6 and 5 were telling me to wait for this moment to move.

It not 9.6 And 5.
The reading is 9.6 (5)
I indicate this because you are ignoring the line text (which is where the answer is) and looking more at 9 and 5.

So, I'd ask you to reflect on this,
you don't have to answer here,
Why the aversion to letting go of it?
Will you cease to exist?

Something we haven't discussed is....
Do you really believe you have an acurate picture of all the past events?

Because, brother, I would wager you don't. Alcohol clouds *everything*.
And having made all the progress you have, your forward momentum,
if you were confronted with some ugly truth right now, would it be likely to boost you or throw you off track?
Do you need that?
And these people, what kind of temperments do they have? Are they vindictive?
What kind of reactions do you realistically think they would have?
Is there pepper spray or fisticuffs on the horizon? That would be a 28 scenario.

 

[ZeroPoint]

My query to the Iching was essentially will setting forth on this journey yield a happy ending. One devoid of past failures tainting future successes. So is the Iching responding more so to my current situation in particular? In that the confrontation I have been contemplating is futile even though the question wasn't phrased as such?

I was thinking part of the confusion about the answer is the complicated question. What happens if you take the "or" out and keep the question simple?

I don't know if that means recasting. I never have a good result from something as nuanced as Yi if I'm not straightforward and clear.

Also, there is much good advice above.

 

[rosada]

I am unclear about your question. Do you mean, "If I go forward on this path and confront the people..."
or do you mean, "If I go forward on this path without confronting the people?" I think you mean going forward without confronting anyone, in which case I think the I Ching is saying if you do that you may always be Waiting to see if anything is said some time down the road. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just the way it is.
otoh, you might want to ask how it would be if you were to confront them. And as it sounds like there are several people you owe an explanation/apology you might need to ask about them individually. Some it might be good to talk to, others no so much.
btw, you use the word "confront" which implies you intend to be demanding, like, "Stop spreading those outrageous lies!" I think if that's your attitude now it might be better to Wait until you can feel less pugnacious.

 

[matrixman]

You are reaching into trigram interpretation, which can miss the forest for the trees. Roughly 3k years ago,
the trigrams were contemplated and assembled into hexagrams and the text was written. (there is no need to reinvent the wheel)



There's 9 for you.
Raise the chickens,
work on what you can,
polish yourself.



The place to go is anywhere outside of the building/situation asked about that will collapse

What many alcoholics fail to aknowledge and restrain is there own thunder/intensity.
(righteous indignation is generally much overrated, and often confused with things like indigestion or moods)

(I don't say this without reason:
I was raised inside a tavern,
I've worked as a bouncer.
much observation and experience here)


It not 9.6 And 5.
The reading is 9.6 (5)
I indicate this because you are ignoring the line text (which is where the answer is) and looking more at 9 and 5.

So, I'd ask you to reflect on this,
you don't have to answer here,
Why the aversion to letting go of it?
Will you cease to exist?

Something we haven't discussed is....
Do you really believe you have an acurate picture of all the past events?

Because, brother, I would wager you don't. Alcohol clouds *everything*.
And having made all the progress you have, your forward momentum,
if you were confronted with some ugly truth right now, would it be likely to boost you or throw you off track?
Do you need that?
And these people, what kind of temperments do they have? Are they vindictive?
What kind of reactions do you realistically think they would have?
Is there pepper spray or fisticuffs on the horizon? That would be a 28 scenario.

I honestly wish I could let go. The aversion comes from the pursuit and the nature of my transgressions. It's complicated but the gist is that it truly could damage my future if these flames are stoked.

I definitely remember enough, plus very dirty dirty stares I've gotten in the past have made it impossible to ignore the reality. I personally don't believe I would be thrown off by the truth, though I do understand what you're saying. I think it would be valuable of me to know the totality of the situation and move accordingly.

I'm not sure if I would call them vindictive but I promise they are not the type to keep quiet for my sake.

I've re-casted again today on the advice of another commenter on this thread this time changing the query from confrontation to a question of whether I could reach an understanding with these parties and got 41.3.6 (11). I was also in a much calmer state today than when I had casted the 28 which has me wondering that it may be why I got that hexagram in the first place. 41.3.6(11) Seems a lot more positive in it's resolution but it has me wondering could this perhaps be a null answer as I've already asked multiple times. Does asking the Iching eventually yield null results? Should I always listen to the first answer? I remember you saying the Iching takes into account everything including intention so does me changing the question from confrontation to understanding really change the result or is it wishful thinking on my part?

 

[matrixman]

I am unclear about your question. Do you mean, "If I go forward on this path and confront the people..."
or do you mean, "If I go forward on this path without confronting the people?" I think you mean going forward without confronting anyone, in which case I think the I Ching is saying if you do that you may always be Waiting to see if anything is said some time down the road. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just the way it is.
otoh, you might want to ask how it would be if you were to confront them. And as it sounds like there are several people you owe an explanation/apology you might need to ask about them individually. Some it might be good to talk to, others no so much.
btw, you use the word "confront" which implies you intend to be demanding, like, "Stop spreading those outrageous lies!" I think if that's your attitude now it might be better to Wait until you can feel less pugnacious.

I was thinking part of the confusion about the answer is the complicated question. What happens if you take the "or" out and keep the question simple?

I don't know if that means recasting. I never have a good result from something as nuanced as Yi if I'm not straightforward and clear.

Also, there is much good advice above.

Changing the question to a more simple "Can we reach an understanding if I talk to them" certainly yielded a far more favourable hexagram but I wonder now if the first reading is the most important? Should I ignore this hexagram? As I was under the assumption the Iching took the situation into account in totality even if what was asked was not necessarily phrased in such a way.