Please help with interpretation of 17.1>45

[pepita45]

Hello I Ching community,
I am a long time lurker, but don't post very much.
Sometimes the reply to a question is crystal clear to me, other times is really ambiguous.
I recently went on a date with a man, and had a real good time,we laughed, had drinks and dinner and a kiss a the end with a promise to see each other again, soon. This was 2 weeks ago, and it's been radio silence since. I made it very clear I wanted to see him again, so very reluctant to contact him first.
I asked if I would ever see him again and got 17.1>45 mmmmm interesting... Has he changed his mind and having a choice of many women, 45 gathering together,I didn't make a strong enough impression?
or he will change his mind about me, and we will meet again in a public place? Am I totally off with my interpretation?
Please help if you have time, to make sense of this reading and to whether I am on the right track with my own interretation.
I will be forever grateful, and thank you in advance

 

[pepita45]

Sorry for the double posting!!

 

[mandarin_23]

Hi pepita45,

"an official has a change of mind" - maybe also means to change your own heart and be "less official"?
17 is not a hexagram waiting, but asks you to go out of your confinement (comfort area) yourself, follow your heart and find the people you like?

This is not an answer of your question, at least not a direct answer. You asked a yes/no question, so this probably depends on your circumstances etc. If you life in a town, you might as well meet him somewhere out some time. But this wouldn't be what you asked about …

Well, I think I also would feel a bit irritated if someone kissed me and then sort of "disappeared", and just like you, I'd do hard to understand this reading. If I was in such a situation, I would take it as a clear "maybe some time" and as a hint to follow your way.

 

[rosada]

Could the “official has a change of heart” mean you changing your mind about waiting for him to call you first? Not that this is advising you that you should (I wouldn’t), but as an answer to your question as to whether you will see him again maybe 17.1 is saying “only if you decide to call him.”

 

[pepita45]

Thanks mandarin for your reply, I understand it is not s good idea to ask yes/no questions. Unfortunately I think I have been ghosted!!!

 

[pepita45]

Hi Rosada
Thanks for your interpretation. I am tempted to contact him, but I also think that his silence speaks volumes and maybe he did not enjoy the date as much as I thought ! I think I have been ghosted!! Oh well , at leat I had a nice evening!

 

[pepita45]

So my own interpretation of the answer was not very accurate? What do you think? Please I would appreciate an honest reply.

 

[rosada]

I think your interpretation that 17.1 says he changed his mind about building on one friendship and decided instead that he preferred to play the field (45), makes good sense. Whether or not this is the real reason he hasn’t called I think assuming it is is the right attitude to have.
I don’t see in this answer any suggestion that the problem was that you did not make a strong enough impression. Maybe you’ll want to ask “Why did he change his mind?” But actually it sounds like you’ve already made peace with the situation.Onward!

 

[Liselle]

I agree with Rosada, I think, including the part that neither we nor the reading are "telling" you to do anything - it has to be your decision and something you're comfortable with.

The relating hexagram - 45's oracle says this:

'Gathering, creating success.
With the king’s presence, there is a temple.
Fruitful to see great people, creating success.
Constancy bears fruit.
Using great sacrificial animals: good fortune.
Fruitful to have a direction to go.'

"With the king's presence, there is a temple" - I wonder if Yi's saying you can, if you want, act like a king, with the ability to make independent decisions like being the one to call?

Hilary also says this about it:

The king in the temple assumes the role of mediator, connecting his people with the ancestral spirits. This is a time to strengthen shared roots, and understand mundane daily activities as part of a larger story and identity that gives them meaning.

I'm nervous about pulling a couple very specific words out of commentaries and making too much of them, but I guess I'm doing it anyway (with the caveat of saying I think it's an "iffy" thing to do).
"Mediator" - any chance you have a mutual friend? "Mundane daily activities" - echoes of what you said about meeting in a public place? Do you think you might happen to run into him somewhere, unplanned? (But I hope this tiny notion won't make you on edge about going through your day normally, for fear you'll have a hair out of place or something - try not to worry! )

"Using great sacrificial animals: good fortune" - sacrificing "great animals" like livestock is a much bigger deal than sacrificing a few chickens. It might be risky. But maybe "big risk, big reward," sometimes? In your case maybe this is taking the risk of being the one to phone. Back to 17.1, it sounds like you phoning is indeed being less formal and less official, because the formal, official thing to do is wait for the man to call.

You could also ask a second question specifically about phoning, if you want. (I shouldn't encourage people down my path of asking too many questions :bag:, but....)

 

[Liselle]

So my own interpretation of the answer was not very accurate? What do you think? Please I would appreciate an honest reply.

It could be accurate. We really have no way of being 100% sure what is going on, just from a Yi reading. It's always possible that what Yi is really telling you is something we haven't thought of. (I for one do not keep a tally list of the times I interpret my readings wrongly. )

It might depend on who you think "the official" in 17.1 is, him or you. Most often when you do a reading, the answer is directed to you, but for a question like this it could very well be more just an explanation.

A point in favor of it referring to him might be that part of what 17 can mean is the idea of the present, the present moment.

Regardless - the only way to know for sure might be to phone him and find out. Give some thought to the pros and cons, maybe?

Pros - you might have another date, or a whole relationship! Maybe he hasn't phoned you for some reason that has nothing to do with you. If you don't find out, you could be foregoing a possibility altogether, because of what you and/or some internet people think a reading might be saying.

Cons - he might tell you he doesn't want to see you again. Sigh. But at least you'd know for sure. And if that's the worst that could happen, it's hopefully not so terrible in the larger scheme of things.

 

[pepita45]

Thanks liselle for taking the time and trouble to make me understand about hex 45. I strongly believe that after I made it very clear that I wanted to see him again, he has chosen not to, there is nothing else to say really. I live in London, so maybe running into each other is unlikely, but not impossible!
My gut feeling is with rosada, he has chosen to play the field, and it is his prerogative!
Once again thanks for your input.

 

[pepita45]

I also keep a journal of my readings, but it’s not very helpful to understand the real meaning of a question weeks later

 

[Liselle]

A journal is another big invesment - the more notes we make, before, during, and after readings, the more useful it is, but it can be very time-consuming. Mine doesn't get tended as it should be, either.

( Resonance Journal feature request: Tools > Utilities > Add time to day)

 

[rosada]

I too have trouble keeping I Ching notes as I feel I should. In fact I was getting great comfort from the advice I thought Liselle, was giving in the above post: “RENOUNCE journal”!
Sigh.. we see what we want to see...

 

[Liselle]

 

[Trojina]

Hello I Ching community,
I am a long time lurker, but don't post very much.
Sometimes the reply to a question is crystal clear to me, other times is really ambiguous.
I recently went on a date with a man, and had a real good time,we laughed, had drinks and dinner and a kiss a the end with a promise to see each other again, soon. This was 2 weeks ago, and it's been radio silence since. I made it very clear I wanted to see him again, so very reluctant to contact him first.
I asked if I would ever see him again and got 17.1>45 mmmmm interesting... Has he changed his mind and having a choice of many women, 45 gathering together,I didn't make a strong enough impression?
or he will change his mind about me, and we will meet again in a public place? Am I totally off with my interpretation?
Please help if you have time, to make sense of this reading and to whether I am on the right track with my own interretation.
I will be forever grateful, and thank you in advance

I think I'll answer without reading the replies - and then read the replies.

17.1 is advice to you to keep on seeking out new people. Hence it's a roundabout way of saying 'don't bother with that man any more he's not there, keep looking'.

I could be wrong, after all there's still a faint chance he will call ?

But no, don't call him, as you said silence speaks volumes

. I am tempted to contact him, but I also think that his silence speaks volumes and maybe he did not enjoy the date as much as I thought ! I think I have been ghosted!! Oh well ��, at leat I had a nice evening!

perhaps he wasn't honest with you about his personal situation. I don't see that in the reading it's just one reason for ghosting.

 

[pepita45]

Just out of curiosity, I asked what Rosada suggested and asked why did he change his mind? Result 56.6=62
Interesting!!! He is on a journey himself and not having a good time either, line 6 seems to suggest that he may have problems with his place of residence? Anyway not much can be accomplished at this time -62!
Or I could read that he is just passing through my life, no permanence there . I think I am right when my instincts tell me to leave him alone.

 

[pepita45]

Thanks Trojina , you know how much I appreciate your input. Of course there is always the chance he could call , but maybe by then if I go out and meet new people, I would probably have forgotten all about him !!

 

[pepita45]

I would be grateful if anyone could comment on my reading of why has he not called me and got 56.6-62. I have my thoughts about it, but would love the input of someone more experienced than me in interpreting readings. Thanks in advance!

 

[Trojina]

I would be grateful if anyone could comment on my reading of why has he not called me and got 56.6-62. I have my thoughts about it, but would love the input of someone more experienced than me in interpreting readings. Thanks in advance!

Well we don't know and I don't think we should really read motives via Yi, after all we'll have no proof one way or the other unless he himself explains.

One thing is clear, he's treated you badly and he's been a coward. He led you expect something and if he changed his mind he might have texted or called just to say 'sorry but I can't because xyz….' rather than leave you hanging.

I say that but again I can't be sure I mean he could, unlikely but possible, be dead or ill - I don't know.

If I take 56.6 as a direct answer, well it's saying something was taken much too far to the point where it couldn't be sustained. Perhaps he thought you'd both gone too far too quickly and yet I can't see why having a nice time together would be going too far unless he intended to sort of have a dalliance and could see it would be more serious ? But that's not much of a reason is it.

Actually the first thought that came to my head was perhaps he left it too long before calling and then the longer he left it, the harder it seemed to call. That can happen even with friends, you know there's a point where you have left it so long it no longer feels natural to call. Then without knowing it you have burned your bridges and you can't call because it would seem weird and you'd have to explain why you haven't been in touch and so on.


You know what maybe if this is bothering you perhaps you should call him as others suggested ? I mean I know his silence speaks volumes and all that but really this matters to you because it kind of makes you doubt your judgment. It all seemed so good to you and if it wasn't then you are left wondering how your perception on it could mislead you.

I think with Yi answers on why he didn't call whatever we come up with we can't be sure. I'm saying he behaved badly but actually weird things can happen, people do die suddenly - Mind you I think it's a far fetched explanation of why he hasn't called but it is possible.

I think most people's advice would be to just let this go and I agree unless you are going to be thinking about it for some time. Also why should he get away with it, maybe he should explain himself ? Up to you - but also you don't want to call him and then he's nice and makes another date and then he drops you again, and there are people like that that can waste your life away for you by dangling carrots, being so nice when they are with you but not really following through.

 

[pepita45]

Hi trojina, I have no intention whatsoever to call this guy and have deleted his number. I just want to check that my understanding of the oracle is getting better. I thought that he did burn his bridges and maybe he was hoping for more than I was prepared to give.... as you say it’s difficult to know the real reason, and if it wasn’t for the case that I want to get better at understanding the I Ching, I would not have asked!!! Rosada suggested it, and I thought it was a good idea! Once again thank you for your comments. ��

 

[pepita45]

Hi trojina, I have no intention whatsoever to call this guy and have deleted his number. I just want to check that my understanding of the oracle is getting better. I thought that he did burn his bridges and maybe he was hoping for more than I was prepared to give.... as you say it’s difficult to know the real reason, and if it wasn’t for the case that I want to get better at understanding the I Ching, I would not have asked!!! Rosada suggested it, and I thought it was a good idea! Once again thank you for your comments.

 

[rosada]

I think 56.6-62 isn’t about his place of residence but more about your idea that he was just a wanderer passing through. 62 Attention to Details seems to say it would have been nice if he’d called the next day to just say “I had a really nice time last night” but then that would have been awkward if he didn’t intend to continue the friendship... Anyway, we may never know the exact details but I think the I Ching is giving you a good suggestion for how you should hold the experience in your mind.
I find it’s very effective to sing a song whose lyrics help me to think about things in a certain way. Like in this instance you could sing a few bars of “It was just one of those things. Just one of those crazy things. A trip to the moon on gossamer wings. It was just one of those things...” You may be pleasantly surprised to find how quickly you are then able to put the whole episode to rest and move on!

 

[equinox]

17.1 makes me think that he will get back to you at some point and that this decision will be in context of a change of mind.

But then, as others said, he already proved that he is not reliable -- at least if it was the case that you clearly agreed that he will be the who calls/writes first.
And as long as nothing happened in his life that makes it impossible to contact you.

 

[pepita45]

Hi equinox’ thanks for taking the time to comment on my thread. This is where I have the biggest problem with the oracle!! Who is changing their mind, me or him? I can never really tell if the IC is talking about me or the person I am enquiring about!!! I have been consulting the IC for years

 

[pepita45]

Hi equinox’ thanks for taking the time to comment on my thread. This is where I have the biggest problem with the oracle!! Who is changing their mind, me or him? I can never really tell if the IC is talking about me or the person I am enquiring about!!! I have been consulting the IC for years

 

[equinox]

Yes, that is difficult to interpret. Btw I also symphatize with rosadas first idea that Yi either advises you to get in touch, or more deterministically, that you will be one to call/write him.
Following this interpretation of your initial result, 56.6 could warn you not to burn all bridges.
But in principle I agree with what Trojina said about people who keep you waiting.
The question we all can't answer is: Why doesn't he answer? Is he just not interested after all? Does something prevent him from contacting you? Or is he so extraordinarily shy? That's possible, but unlikely if the date went really well.
I personally would contact him if it were important for me — just because I can handle rejection better than uncertainty. But that's a matter of taste.

 

[pepita45]

Hi equinox’ thanks for taking the time to comment on my thread. This is where I have the biggest problem with the oracle!! Who is changing their mind, me or him? I can never really tell if the IC is talking about me or the person I am enquiring about!!! I have been consulting the IC for years

 

[pepita45]

Equinox when we left each other we kissed and I stated very clearly that I wanted to see him again and he agreed enthusiastically! I then went home sent him a text saying thanks for a wonderful evening looking forward to the second date! Enough hints don’t you think? I have been ghosted. It happens a lot, apparently!

 

[equinox]

And he didn't answer on this message?