Potential reference Hex 58>60

[goddessliss]

I left a job at the beginning of the year because, when I spoke up about a number of issues the employers cut my shift down to one a week instead of my usual 4-5, and weren't open to resolving the issues.
I felt it was easier to walk away than bother, however I know I did a good job when I was working for them and recently asked them by email if the could email me a reference. No response.

What is the potential I will receive a reference from them

Hex 58.4>60

Line 4 - I am tempted to send another email asking if there's a problem with giving me one but it seems I should just wait and one will eventually be sent to me - or something joyous anyway. - Liss

 

[sooo]

Hi Liss,

I think you'd have a better chance by contacting the head person by phone. This way if there's a grudge, regret or some other problem, you're more likely to know first hand, plus the chance of a friendly and candid conversation (more 58). But I'd keep it directed toward your question (limit direction) and not rehash the reasons you left. Simple, friendly, professional. This is a bit like 19 but in reverse, since someone else is overseeing the matter, but you approach it tactfully, it is lake above lake (comrades) rather than earth (authority) over lake.

 

[Liselle]

How recently did you make the request? And are you asking them to be a reference, or to give you a reference (that is, (a) allowing potential employers to call them and ask about you, vs. (b) them sending you a letter that you would give to potential employers yourself.)

I'm asking those things because it might simply be that they're thinking about what to say - maybe they just need more time to compose a letter (if that's what you're asking them to do). You are naturally anxious about this, and it's a high priority for you to get this done. It's not so much a priority for them.

That's why it matters how long ago "recently" was. I think you have the right idea - just wait a while. Try not to worry about it so much.

And remember, any reference you'd get from them could go both ways - they could take a deep breath over the circumstances of your leaving, realize you did a good job for them otherwise, and decide to be fair to you and base their recommendation on that. Or, not. If you pester them, it might tip the pendulum towards the more unpleasant side. You want to maximize the chance that they'll say positive things about you, particularly if you have no control over it (them talking to potential employers over the phone, vs. giving you a written document).

 

[Liselle]

P.S. I'm not necessarily saying you shouldn't ever speak to them personally about it, as Sooo suggested. I think Sooo has a good point, that it might help to feel them out about what they might say. I just think it might be best to give them a generous amount of time before doing that. And it might work out very nicely without any follow-up being needed, if you wait a while as you said. If you're asking for a letter, you might get a very nice one from them without having to do anything more (the "rejoicing" part of the reading).

 

[goddessliss]

Thanks sooo and Lisa - Yes it's recent Lisa and I guess when something like this comes up I'm someone that gets straight onto it - haha so it's my issue!! I do want a written reference.
I recall when I applied for the job they were very slow in getting back to me to set up an interview time after they initially showed a strong interest when reading my resume/application.

Sooo they are self important bitches (gosh can I say that on here) but well that's the truth and when I've tried to talk with them before, when I was working for them, they just raved on about how busy their lives were....

I'll let it go but hopefully be rejoicing in the next couple of weeks

 

[Liselle]

Sooo they are self important bitches (gosh can I say that on here) but well that's the truth and when I've tried to talk with them before, when I was working for them, they just raved on about how busy their lives were....

Well, "we don't care about anything other than ourselves" may be true too. Thank goodness you don't work for them anymore.

Still, I think Yi's advice is to give them some time, meanwhile try to "limit your anxiety," and it will work out okay. If necessary, you might want to do another reading when you think a reasonable time has passed, to ask about nagging them, er, gently inquiring.

 

[goddessliss]

I still haven't heard although I did send the email again about 10 days ago.

Why didn't they send me a reference

Hex 56.3>35

Looks like it's suggesting I burnt my bridges! - Liss

 

[Liselle]

What on earth .

Anyone have any idea how to reconcile those two readings? I don't.

I mean, it's fine to say you burnt your bridges - maybe you did. But what sense does it make to tell you that now, after giving you 58.4 on the subject???

 

[goddessliss]

After the original interview but before I started work, I asked them for a reference so that I could use it for proof that I had a job for renting accommodation.
The reference is on company letterhead and It speaks of me in very high regard.
I'm not above editing that reference so it reads as if it's after I left the job because I know I did the job it states I would.
- Liss

 

[Liselle]

How sneaky and clever:demon:. Good for you .

(Are you saying this plan has something to do with the readings?)

 

[goddessliss]

How sneaky and clever:demon:. Good for you .

(Are you saying this plan has something to do with the readings?)

Ha ha I wondered that myself but nope I just thought f... 'em - it's their issue not mine. But I did find this for line 4 in the Oracle of Love ' Serenely open to change'

Yep I'm serene and gonna change it......uch:

 

[Liselle]

The only danger I can see in what you're doing is if potential employers actually phone the ladies (since you said the letter is on their letterhead).

I'd still love to know what is going on with those readings. This is exactly the kind of thing that makes me wonder if Doodleboy has the right idea . I'd rather not think that - I'd much rather figure it out. Can you think of anything that changed between the first reading and the second one?

~ October 24th.............................Sent first email to former employers
October 24th...............................Cast 58.4 > 60 reading and posted it here
~ November 8th............................Sent second email to former employers
November 18th.............................Cast 56.3 > 35 reading and posted it here

Here are some different authors on 58.4:

Hilary:
"Negotiating opening, not yet at rest.
Containing the affliction brings rejoicing."

"You're considering and discussing a change, and you want to settle all the details before you commit yourself, so you can be sure of how things willl work and more confident that you're making the right decision.

You're also under great pressure to decide. This magnifies your restlessness into deep anxiety; unless you set some limits to this, it will tend to take over and turn the negotiations into obsessive haggling.

If you rest secure in the knowledge of what you want and need, you can reach your decision calmly, in your own time. You'll also find that participating in the interplay of negotiation enriches you , and the dance of exchange is something you can enjoy."

Wilhelm
"Nine in the fourth place means:
Joyousness that is weighed is not at peace.
After ridding himself of mistakes a man has joy."

"Often a man finds himself weighing the choice between various kinds of pleasures, and so long as he has not decided which kind he will choose, the higher or the lower, he has no inner peace. Only when he clearly recognizes that passion brings suffering, can he make up his mind to turn away from the lower pleasures and to strive for the higher. Once this decision is sealed, he finds true joy and peace, and inner conflict is overcome."

LiSe Heyboer
"9 at 4: Discussing exchange, not yet tranquil. Protection against affliction brings mutual joy."

"Talking turns very easily into a discussion. Stay calm and relaxed. Don't expect to be put in the right, agreeing is not necessary for a good contact. One can like a person without liking his convictions. Stay curious and positive towards ideas different from your own."

---

We considered the "serenity" idea, but (I think) we had decided that it meant you shouldn't pester them obsessively, which you didn't do. You waited a bit over two weeks between the first and second emails, if I have the timeline correct.

Everyone has a different idea of what a reasonable time is for something like this, but I don't think two weeks is unreasonable.

Did you cast another reading before sending the second email?

What exactly did you say in the two emails? I can't imagine you'd be anything other than professional in requests like that, but do you think there was anything in them which may have irritated the ladies?

Maybe it's as simple as them thinking, "Good grief - she left here on bad terms, and then she turns around and asks us for a reference??!" I mean, maybe they gave it no more thought than that, and didn't bother to take your request seriously or consider that you'd been a good employee in your actual work?

Trouble is, I don't see that sort of sentiment in the first reading. The second reading, yes, but not the first.

My basic problem here is, if the bridges were burnt when you left the job (which may be possible, from the ladies' point of view), Yi could have given you the second reading first, and then you'd never have asked them for a reference in the first place. But Yi didn't say that, which makes it seem like something happened between the first and second emails .

Another possibility (maybe) is that the first reading was saying you don't need a reference from these ladies at all? That you can get a job without it? Do you have enough other good references from other employers?

Sorry for all the questions, but there has to be something we missed.

 

[goddessliss]

It's great that you take such an interest Lisa, thank you, so we can look at exactly what's going on here.

They'd sent me an email in June asking who my superannuation company was and I didn't reply as I didn't earn enough to even get taxed and in the email they said 'hope things are well with you'.
Not knowing my superannuation details was something they should've had when they employed me amongst other things - gosh we didn't even get payslips until a couple of us requested them.
So I replied to that email when I was asking for the reference and I said sorry I hadn't got back to them but I was travelling, which essentially isn't bs and said I hope things are good for you too.

When I sent the second email I just resent the first one as it was.

When I finished my employ with them there was no argument or harsh words or anything we just both knew things weren't working out, they said good luck and I said goodbye - nothing more, nothing less.

In my mind, as they are control freaks, bitchy and gossipy I can only imagine they would rather get a call from a potential employee to know what I'm doing - otherwise I can't think of any other reason for them not to. It's just silly.
To be honest I'm not that worried about whether they give me one or not - it's probably just the principal of the thing and it makes life easier if you've got one.
Recently I went for an interview, which I think I may have a post about, when I didn't get the job I asked why and if she spoken to my references. She said no she hadn't spoken to them and I'd done nothing wrong in the interview, the job went to the person with the most points - they use a point system and then offered me a casual job but I was no longer in that area.
I then told her of the situation with these employees and she said if there was anyone I worked with that would be happy to give me a reference that is the way to go for future potential employers.
I've spoken to a lovely girl I worked with there, who also felt the same way as me about the issues I had, but after she saw what happened when I spoke up she decided to keep quiet - good on her. She's studying at uni and working there will help with her studies and it's within walking distance from her home. She said she is more than happy to take a call from potential employers for a reference.

As for the employers, even if they wrote me a good reference it's not gonna affect them. Some employers write good references for bad employees just to get rid of them but bear them no malaise. When I had a girl working for me she needed a reference for court for a DUI charge - I gave her a good one because it wasn't gonna change my life either way and karma's karma as I see it, whatever was gonna happen for her was gonna happen.
- Liss

 

[Liselle]

Thank you for all the information, Liss. Do you think 58.4 could be referring to the office girl who said she'd be happy to give you a reference?

That might fit both readings: by using her for the reference, you can "put limits" on your haggling with the ladies (58.4), and the 56.3 > 35 might mean that when you sent the second email to the ladies, you were disregarding someone who would help you ("burning down your 'resting space' " - something which would allow you to rest) - and then the office girl would be your 'young helper.' 35 as the relating hexagram might mean there's an easy solution here - again, the office girl.

Had you ever thought of the office girl before sending any of these emails? Had you talked to her about it early on?

I don't know. I could convince myself that the readings refer to her, but does that make any sense to you?

P.S. I agree with you about references - if giving someone a reference won't hurt you, then why not do it. But not everyone would think that way, I guess.

 

[goddessliss]

Not that it matters but she's not the office girl - there was no office - half the problem really.
She was a young girl who worked under me as an assistant with the children.

I had already talked with her before any of this so as I said no big deal. - Liss

 

[Liselle]

Oh, sorry. When you said that she said that she'd be "happy to take a call," I jumped right to an image of her being a receptionist answering the phone. But of course "take a call" wasn't that literal - you just meant that you'd give potential employers her name, and they would call the place and ask for her, or something like that. Duh. Sorry.

But if you'd already talked to her before any of this, then maybe all the more reason to think the readings were referring to her - she was already sort of in the picture, and maybe Yi was trying to remind you? Just a guess - don't know if it makes any sense to you or not.