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Pre-post experiences with Love questions

innertruth

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Hi all...
I was actually wondering if you can recall how things turned out after any love reading...Like the ones about feelings...Was it more reflecting your feelings than the other person's?
Or how Yi speaks about love matters...


Because sometimes on this forum I've read that readings were very positive - yet reality was very dim
or controversial...That really bothers me..:hugs::hugs::weep::stir::brickwall::brickwall:
 

themulberrytree

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I asked about a relationship once (hahahaha, once), and got Hexagram 19.

It didn't quite reflect my feelings, as offer a counterpoint to my feelings: seasons come and go.

And oh, well. There's this one. I've always remembered it because it was such a clear reading but I didn't understand it at the time: Hexagram 37.4.6, changing to 49. Sounded like it would lead to new beginnings, if we just worked on it. But a family caught up in a revolution -- tradition in the face of revolution. What survives in that case? And so the relationship was swept away.
 
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sooo

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Love is an answer, not a question. All those crazy things that are felt about someone have little to do with love and everything to do with desire and sense of filling empty space with self-reflecting and imagining. Imaginings happen at a million miles an hour, while the real world opens slowly, as a flower. Love comes after the young mountain stud and lake nymph settle down to a state of self perpetuating unity.

So typically questions about love are really questions about ones own emotions, while answers about love are typically about sustaining existing energies - 31 vs 32. A time for everything under heaven.
 
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blue_angel

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http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mnxupEXxrTI

"How would Yi describe love?" 19.1.2.>2

Agree... "A time for everything under heaven" Agree... "Love is an answer"

Its funny, I once asked "Will I hear from ___?" A person I love. Received hexagram 19. Lol, shocked me when I heard from them only seconds after receiving that answer.

Sometimes the answers reflect the situation, sometimes they reflect yourself, sometimes they reflect the love partner, sometimes both. Sometimes the answers reflect something completely different, outside of the question or situation one is asking about. Sometimes the answers confirm your own thoughts or feelings. Sometimes that's good, and sometimes that'll be quite an emotional experience.


Hilary has a good Sticky Post on advice for relationship readings, its at the top of Shared Readings. I like Poccossin's views on readings and questions. Its open... Try to stay open when asking questions, love or otherwise. Try not to hold on to wanting or not wanting any specific outcome, is the best advice I have, and what seems to work well for me.
 
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innertruth

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I will try being open, or detached. It is hard. Almost everytime my initial thought about the whole situation
affects it....
 

innertruth

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what do you think about Hexagram 2. If the open question is about Loves or Not? 2 Unchanging
Again so many meanings: Passiveness, openness to initiative, or maybe not wanting to change status-quo?
Willingness to follow whatever initiative comes along? or just Situation is as it is before you?

Confusing.
 

precision grace

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For me the readings have always been very accurate, however sometimes it took a while to actually be able to understand what the reading was saying at the time. I don't shy away from asking how the other person feels and although I haven't had all my readings verified explicitly, I could often extrapolate that the reading was probably accurate. However, one thing I have learned a long time ago and which I understand about both myself and other people, and make sure to be aware of when I am casting 'about love issues' is that people don't always (or even often) behave consistently with how they feel. So for example, a person may have a whole manner of attraction feels towards someone, but for reasons other than heart and hormones, they have decided not to do anything about those feelings. (I am very much a prime example of this already).

so for me, questions about how the other person feels have mostly been in order to reassure myself that I am not imagining things, that I am perceiving the situation correctly, more than anything else.

Also, there is a question of scale and situation. Sometimes I will get a reading that describes some sort of 7th heaven situation, but in reality, nothing like that will happen, or it will be something really minor, but nice.

The best readings are the ones where we are asking about who we are, how we are and what to do to return to our own personal flow.
 
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blue_angel

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I love reading about hexagram 2. It is so beautiful to my mind. I like to imagine how the mare is and also how the earth is to heaven. Receptive and magnetic. Open, to follow the signs and guidance of heaven and earth. It seems like there's a little confusion at first in any situation. Whether its concerning a job, a love, a family member, or a friend. Not sure exactly which way to go or how everything will work out. But the mare doesn't worry about this, she just sets out to work, following the signs. Neither does the earth worry as it grows and spins. When I receive it, reminds me to slow down as I work, and take notice. Being in the moment, being receptive.

Doesn't mean everything turns out the way one always "wants". But perhaps what is best for one, is not always what one " wants". I love hexagram 2 so much I could write a poem about it. I don't think I would take it as "follow whatever initiative that comes along."
 

charly

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what do you think about Hexagram 2. If the open question is about Loves or Not? 2 Unchanging
Again so many meanings: Passiveness, openness to initiative, or maybe not wanting to change status-quo?
Willingness to follow whatever initiative comes along? or just Situation is as it is before you?
Confusing.
Hi, Innertruth:

I believe that H.2 stands for LOVE and MARRIAGE. Little to do with passiveness, maybe an euphmism to say PASSION, that is a STRONG INNER ACTIVITY. maybe more guided by purpose than by reason.

(TO BE CONTINUED)

All the best,


Charly
 

charly

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I will try being open, or detached. It is hard. Almost everytime my initial thought about the whole situation
affects it....
The name of H.2 KUN, means usually EARTH / FEMALE PRINCIPLE / FEMALE ENERGY, another meanings could be OPENNESS, OPENHEARTED, OPENMINDED which are related with RECEPTIVITY.

Ch.
 
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svenrus

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what do you think about Hexagram 2. If the open question is about Loves or Not? 2 Unchanging
Again so many meanings: Passiveness, openness to initiative, or maybe not wanting to change status-quo?
Willingness to follow whatever initiative comes along? or just Situation is as it is before you?

Confusing.

Waiting. Waiting for the right moment. Not to hesitate... (Hex. 1: Action. Hex. 2: Re-action)
 
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sooo

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One of the words and meanings that represent 2 to me is capacity. Like the empty bowl metaphor, one must have the capacity to receive and then carry love. Often there is not enough room for love, our bowl is overfilled with other stuff. That's not necessarily a bad thing. One may be filled with responsibilities, but if one desires to have more love, then one has to create the space for it. Sometimes that space is filled with conditions, and I think conditions to take on love is only sensible. However if there are so many conditions to be met before one can carry love, there can be no room left for love, or more love than one already carries.

Wilhelm uses the horse as a metaphor for 2, specifically a mare. I believe that's a perfect image for several reasons. A good horse is strong, capable of going the distance, capable of carrying great loads including sometimes a rider, willing to be led and guided. Is love strong enough to carry someone if that need arises? For how long, how far? Can they know the difference between loving and enabling? A good rider makes a horse at ease; alert but relaxed and ready. There should be a strong connection between horse and rider, and both require being in shape and up for the ride. A horse requires food, water and attention. There's an equestrian term known as "barn spoiled". When a horse is left in a stable too long without being worked, it becomes the equivalent of a couch potato. Lazy, uncooperative, unmotivated, and difficult to ride, or else complacent, like a riding stable horse that can't wait for the hour to be up so it can hurry back to its couch in the barn for some food and shade. Not a good condition to carry love. So love requires constant attention and exercise. It needs to be kept strong and active, and requires a strong connection with her rider. A good rider isn't one with sharp spurs and a quick whip, but one who becomes one with the horse.
 

innertruth

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Thanks for interesting takes on 2.
Two is unassuming I guess, It's main idea is to FOLLOW whatever will come.
But it is receptive at the same time....So Guess it would mean that the person concerned
is open to initiative and will follow you *querent - but would not lead. Because 2 cannot
be a leader! It only provides space for initiative......
:bag: SO IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE RIDER really like you said Sooo....
Hmmm.....
 
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sooo

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SO IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE RIDER really like you said Sooo....
Hmmm.....
Yes, but not all. It's also a question of compatibility. A horse has it's own character, part inbred and part learned and developed. The same is true for a rider.

But if I understand correctly, your question and 2 answer pertain mostly to you. So the horse metaphor relates more to you as the horse, or being like a mare. The idea of 2 representing complacency or submission gets misunderstood. It leaves out the implied strength and stamina, and individual character. A horse isn't an automobile, made of iron and plastic. If a rider doesn't respect that 1,000 lbs of muscle and heavy bones, nor understand the character of the horse he or she rides, it's unlikely to be a compatible team, to put it mildly. The power of a grown horse is never to be underestimated nor taken for granted. Even wrapping the reigns innocently around the fingers can pull them off like popsicles off a wooden stick. Lowering ones head above a horse's can break a neck like a twig, walking behind a horse without your hand gliding along its side and can spook her, resulting in broken limbs or worse.

On a more philosophical note, I'll quote Wilhelm on the Creative's ability to manifest those same creative attributes to the receptive; hence references to a horse's spirit.

The beginning of all things lies still in the beyond in the form of ideas that have yet to become real. But the Creative furthermore has power to lend form to these archetypes of ideas.
Horses are frequently given names such as Thunder and Lightening. One boarded horse here was named by an Indian woman after her tribe - Chactaw.

Anyway, compatibility is nature's deciding factor. All the effort in a man and woman's power can not create that, but they can sustain it if it's naturally present, and if that's what both truly desire. I think that's what's represented in 28.2. If it's not there, try though they may, 28.5.
 
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blue_angel

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Sorry to intrude on your lesson, but this is driving me mad :D

I'm not sure about your mare of hexagram 2. But mine is not to be kept in a stable. The wide, open fields, is where she roams free, and likes to be. There will be no reigns, she is not to be trained.
 
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sooo

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Sorry to intrude on your lesson, but this is driving me mad :D

I'm not sure about your mare of hexagram 2. But mine is not to be kept in a stable. The wide, open fields, is where she roams free, and likes to be. There will be no reigns, she is not to be trained.

Sorry, don't mean it to sound like a lesson, only observations.

But aside from the lack of a human rider, the same traits apply within the the order of the species. A horse can be put out to pasture to roam lazily about. It's highly unlikely she will mate, but the wild mustangs have a strict family order and a hardwired instinct to propagate. I've sat often among them within the safety of my Jeep, and watched the young stallion woo a young mare from a nearby family. Her father stands by and ready to charge the young stud, and he had better honor and respect him or else. He wants only the fittest to mate his daughter. If the two young un's are not compatible, they ignore each other. They instinctively know. They don't fantasize.

A lone mare in the wide open fields is highly unlikely, as she would be courted not by a stallion but by a cougar or pack of wolves.
 
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blue_angel

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I do not take the Iching text to be literal. I take it to be metaphorical. I did not suggest the mare would be a "lone" mare nor a "fantasizing" mare. However, I would imagine a " lead" mare or a "boss" mare. Only because I see hexagram 2 speaking of the mare 1. In its natural form, not in closed quarters and trained. And 2. Since it is speaking specifically of the mare. Then also of the earth, as well as following the signs, as guidance, and she sets out to work. Sounds like a "lead" or a "boss" mare.

But then there is no right or wrong here. And no need to apologize for your take on the lesson or how you see in it. I guess this is why I take each reading to be personal and individual. It is... however it speaks to you. Through your spirit. Anyhow, I was only teasing, being playful, along with sharing my own take. I meant no harm.

I do find it interesting that she is generally in "heat" ready for mating sometime between spring and fall. Something like 19 to 21 days. And wonder if there's a connection with hexagram 19 there. But then that may be looking to deeply into it. I personally had not ever looked at hexagram 2 as a "love" hexagram. But I suppose it could be. I see 2 as I stated on the previous page. But I do see how the entirety of 19.1.2>2 was describing love by Yi.
 
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sooo

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However, I would imagine a " lead" mare or a "boss" mare. Only because I see hexagram 2 speaking of the mare 1. In its natural form, not in closed quarters and trained. And 2. Since it is speaking specifically of the mare. Then also of the earth, as well as following the signs, as guidance, and she sets out to work. Sounds like a "lead" or a "boss" mare.

The metaphorical mare in question is a work horse, and a follower, whether on a ranch or among packs of wild mustangs.

Furthering through the perseverance of a mare.
If the superior man undertakes something and tries to lead,
He goes astray;
But if he follows, he finds guidance.
It is favorable to find friends in the west and south,
To forego friends in the east and north.
Quiet perseverance brings good fortune.

This is not an image of a "boss mare", but one that is receptive to being led. Whether training comes from a human, who feeds, houses and protects her, or her family in the wild, that look after her - as my example of her protective father whose interest is natural selection, breeding the fittest offspring from a worthy colt. Yes, when in heat, she is always ready and quite obviously open. It's humorous to observe Candy place herself directly in front of whatever male horse is behind her, even when he's a gelding. Only an interested and able male will carpe diem. In the wild, her leader/father or elder brother will chase off the unworthy, until he proves his guts, strength and cunning.

As for fantasizing, it is a human pastime to fantasize about love. Romance is a human characteristic and obsession, and not nearly as ancient as the natural selection process, which is based solely on the continuance of the pack and the species. Hex 2 refers to the latter. That's why that answer is relevant to questions about love and lovers.

I think that's an interesting observation concern mating season of a mare and hex 19.
 
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blue_angel

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Kun also equals earth. Earth is receptive to heaven's guidance and carries all the beings. If I place horse or mare specifically in place of earth then it would be the mare following the signs and guidance of heaven. Same as a "lead" mare would lead her horses to water. Etc. I feel it can be misleading to say she's a follower or submissive. Unless it is clear what she's actually following. Hexagram 1 and Hexagram 2.Heaven and earth. Earth follows the signs and guidance of heaven. (Is receptive to that guidance) and carries all the beings willingly. I am not asking that anyone agree, only to offer my own understanding. Wilhelm can be misleading I feel or taken out of context. In more cases than not, in "love" readings I personally was being told to follow my inner guidance or I can say heavenly guidance, rather than follow a or the man
 
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blue_angel

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To discuss further, there are so many times the question comes up "who is this superior man I am to follow?" "How will I know?" And the answer more commonly agreed on, is "The superior man, is not man at all, it is your higher guidance or intuition if you will." The gift and power to follow the signs of heaven's will. Or for those of nature, nature's will.


I do not think this is just any mare than. This is earth. This is a strong, whole, healthy female presence. Female because she has the qualities to nurture, care, love. Strong because she is able to read the signs, she is receptive to the signs of heaven or nature, in order to "carry all the beings" (lead her horses to water).
Even science has many studies on why females choose certain men over others. A whole, healthy, female, in her natural element. Whether animal or human, is shown to pick the stronger of the breed. She does this naturally, subconsciously, even. She does this to keep the strong genes and carry on, progress the species.


So Candy as you say places herself in front of just any male. I wonder what Candy would do if she was in her natural element. Not trained by man. As grandma always says "man will lead you astray" as mom always says "trust no man". For me its too much black and white thinking. But good intentions maybe, to lead the females in the family to be strong and trust their inner guidance. Also perhaps the ultimate goal is to continue the species. So if Candy is not in her natural element, and she is not finding much choice available, perhaps she then just chooses to procreate anyway, to at least give the species its only chance of survival. As a horse in a stable, she has little to no control over what she is meant to do naturally.


There are other studies on this. A place in China still alive today. Although it may be absurd to most, the female, once she reaches maturity, or puberty. There is a celebration. They have a dance, the female chooses her male. There must be some trust in the natural process and a loosening of the reigns then. That the female indeed is capable of picking the stronger breed and even strong enough to say... Work a full time job, attend college, take the kids to soccer, and cook a healthy meal for the entire family. A working horse indeed but also a strong and yet caring, receptive working horse. But she is also leading her family, although in a healthy marriage and family she is a co-leader. But that is, I feel going further into another area. Unless you want to consider hexagram 1 and hexagram 2, heaven and earth as partners, working together. Which at times, a man will receive hexagram 2. So what's he being told to do? Same thing I feel. There's a balance there to be made in the middle. Be receptive, follow. Yet be strong, and ready to lead. And because it is Chinese symbols it has room to go in either direction to better suit the times or any given situation. It must be, I feel sorted out delicately or and wisely.


Further back to that study, it is believed the female picks the stronger gene when she has the option to choose because she has one egg to fertilize. One time a month to ovulate. She has one chance to get it right. Where as the man has many, many, many, seeds available. So heaven man. Female earth. Strong male. Strong female. Both must work together. I see now how hexagram 2 can be a "love" hexagram.


For me the understanding then, is not that she will follow just any initiative. She follows that which is right to and for nature. Of course she does not lead. She is following the signs of heaven or nature. She is receptive to heaven or nature. But she is carrying all the beings and is working to lead herself and them to what will better the species. Whether its mare, human, or any other animal of your choice. That is my own understanding of hexagram 2. And why Isee it as a lead mare more so than just any mare. If we are to be talking of earth. Earth is just one. One to carry all the beings and nurture willingly. Of course by heavens guidance. Perhaps its not what they meant when writing the text of Hexagram 2. Perhaps it is. Perhaps its an open field for interpretation.


Could they have had in mind the rider of the mare, or the father as you've witnessed of the mare. Maybe. Maybe not.
 
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sooo

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Since we agree that Yi is a language of metaphor, h2, like the other 63, pertain to both genders who seek guidance. As a male, I have no problem receiving a lesson that pertains to a female figure, including the attributes of a mare. Half of all trigrams are female. It would be impossible for me to receive consistent answers from the IC if I applied only the attributes of heaven, thunder, water and mountain.

My comparative position on love, though the romantic kind no longer applies, is demonstrated in hex 11, where the direction of heaven is upward and that of earth is downward, leading to union. Both primary hexagrams are active and moving toward one another. That applies to within as well as without. In this image, it is still the male principle (heaven) which takes the initiative to voluntarily place himself beneath the female principle (earth). Heaven comes to earth. Earth doesn't fly over heaven in 11. When heaven and earth go their own ways, they move further apart, as in 12. Again, not to get ones ego wrapped up in who is the leader and who is the follower, identifying only with ones own gender. We are each both in principle. Earth without heaven would still be a lifeless rock, and heaven without earth would be only an idea.

But here the discussion pertains to Innertruth's question of love and hex 2. I did not take Wilhelm out of context at all, and his h2 text does not disagree other credible versions.
 
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blue_angel

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Hmmm, yes, perhaps I do not understand what it is you are saying about love and hex 2, according to Inner truth's question.

You say your comparative example is hex 11, yet no longer the "romantic" type. Yet your creative description sounds quite romantic to my own mind. My only question then is, if heaven is male, and voluntarily places himself beneath earth, which is to be female. What are they taking turns in leading here? How can he lead if he's now beneath her? But thats neither here or there. That's where my own mind says, balance in metaphor. Less leading, less following. More receptivity, magnetism, as partners. Can not be one, without the other. At least for hex 2. But this... "earth doesn't fly over heaven in hex 11" almost had me falling off my chair, I laughed so hard. Pegasus? I don't know why you seem defensive? Most things we say are similar and in agreement. Just different forms of expression perhaps. Maybe not?
 
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sooo

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Hmmm, yes, perhaps I do not understand what it is you are saying about love and hex 2, according to Inner truth's question.

You say your comparative example is hex 11, yet no longer the "romantic" type. Yet your creative description sounds quite romantic to my own mind. My only question then is, if heaven is male, and voluntarily places himself beneath earth, which is to be female. What are they taking turns in leading here? How can he lead if he's now beneath her? But thats neither here or there. That's where my own mind says, balance in metaphor. Less leading, less following. More receptivity, magnetism, as partners. Can not be one, without the other. At least for hex 2. But this... "earth doesn't fly over heaven in hex 11" almost had me falling off my chair, I laughed so hard. Pegasus? I don't know why you seem defensive? Most things we say are similar and in agreement. Just different forms of expression perhaps. Maybe not?

chuckle.. from where can I approach this?

We're not saying the same thing regarding h2 leading or being the "boss". When I receive 2, Yi is advising me to consider the earth's dependence on the creative force, to allow myself to be led by the creative force, to be open to the creative force... like a mare in heat. I don't take a position to defend my masculinity because we are a) using metaphors, and b) I'm secure in who I am, and I recognize that no one is 100% male or female.

Fair question regarding my personal regard for 11 in the topic of love. Though I am not open to romantic ties at this time, I recognize that within my body and mind are the very energies referred to in 1 and 2. It includes but is not limited to mind (heaven) and body (earth). Maintaining the unifying dynamic of 11 within may not be considered romantic per se, but happier is the person whose mind loves their body and their body loves their mind. In effect, it is the internal organs' love for one another which creates a healthy body and mind.

Regarding the male in 11 being beneath the female, it is in deference to the female, or love shown to the female. Heaven's natural direction is upward, earth's natural gravitational direction is downward. Through this they move into one another, theoretically unifying in intercourse. We would say, that person has it together, or perhaps, I feel complete, or some such. But it is heaven's creative action which comes to earth, not earth's action which rises above heaven; as the image of a man on one knee proposes to the woman he loves. It is not a sign of weakness, any more than it is a sign of weakness for earth to follow heaven's mandate.

When heaven goes his way and earth goes her's, that is the image of 12. When the female principle of the eldest daughter/woman goes out to confront heaven on her own "bossiness", that is 44. When that happens within someone, they experience ambitiously confrontative and even hostile energy.

I've realized that we must have crossed posts, as there's one of yours I have not yet read. I'll do that now.
 
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blue_angel

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Uh huh... We are absolutely not going to understand each other here. And I am absolutely good with that.
 
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sooo

Guest
To discuss further, there are so many times the question comes up "who is this superior man I am to follow?" "How will I know?" And the answer more commonly agreed on, is "The superior man, is not man at all, it is your higher guidance or intuition if you will." The gift and power to follow the signs of heaven's will. Or for those of nature, nature's will.


I do not think this is just any mare than. This is earth. This is a strong, whole, healthy female presence. Female because she has the qualities to nurture, care, love. Strong because she is able to read the signs, she is receptive to the signs of heaven or nature, in order to "carry all the beings" (lead her horses to water).
Even science has many studies on why females choose certain men over others. A whole, healthy, female, in her natural element. Whether animal or human, is shown to pick the stronger of the breed. She does this naturally, subconsciously, even. She does this to keep the strong genes and carry on, progress the species.


So Candy as you say places herself in front of just any male. I wonder what Candy would do if she was in her natural element. Not trained by man. As grandma always says "man will lead you astray" as mom always says "trust no man". For me its too much black and white thinking. But good intentions maybe, to lead the females in the family to be strong and trust their inner guidance. Also perhaps the ultimate goal is to continue the species. So if Candy is not in her natural element, and she is not finding much choice available, perhaps she then just chooses to procreate anyway, to at least give the species its only chance of survival. As a horse in a stable, she has little to no control over what she is meant to do naturally.


There are other studies on this. A place in China still alive today. Although it may be absurd to most, the female, once she reaches maturity, or puberty. There is a celebration. They have a dance, the female chooses her male. There must be some trust in the natural process and a loosening of the reigns then. That the female indeed is capable of picking the stronger breed and even strong enough to say... Work a full time job, attend college, take the kids to soccer, and cook a healthy meal for the entire family. A working horse indeed but also a strong and yet caring, receptive working horse. But she is also leading her family, although in a healthy marriage and family she is a co-leader. But that is, I feel going further into another area. Unless you want to consider hexagram 1 and hexagram 2, heaven and earth as partners, working together. Which at times, a man will receive hexagram 2. So what's he being told to do? Same thing I feel. There's a balance there to be made in the middle. Be receptive, follow. Yet be strong, and ready to lead. And because it is Chinese symbols it has room to go in either direction to better suit the times or any given situation. It must be, I feel sorted out delicately or and wisely.


Further back to that study, it is believed the female picks the stronger gene when she has the option to choose because she has one egg to fertilize. One time a month to ovulate. She has one chance to get it right. Where as the man has many, many, many, seeds available. So heaven man. Female earth. Strong male. Strong female. Both must work together. I see now how hexagram 2 can be a "love" hexagram.


For me the understanding then, is not that she will follow just any initiative. She follows that which is right to and for nature. Of course she does not lead. She is following the signs of heaven or nature. She is receptive to heaven or nature. But she is carrying all the beings and is working to lead herself and them to what will better the species. Whether its mare, human, or any other animal of your choice. That is my own understanding of hexagram 2. And why Isee it as a lead mare more so than just any mare. If we are to be talking of earth. Earth is just one. One to carry all the beings and nurture willingly. Of course by heavens guidance. Perhaps its not what they meant when writing the text of Hexagram 2. Perhaps it is. Perhaps its an open field for interpretation.


Could they have had in mind the rider of the mare, or the father as you've witnessed of the mare. Maybe. Maybe not.

Okay. I've not been able to link your second paragraph with first. Don't know how you made that leap but it went over my head.

I agree with most of the rest. I've never used the word weakness in connection to h2 or to a woman. Quite the contrary. However, I do not view female strength in the the same light as male strength. Nor do I see the need for competition between genders. As I said, heaven without earth would only be an idea. Earth without heaven would still be a rock in space, if that. Earth carries a large portion of the weight on earth, but she does not create without the inspiration of heaven, nor can she bare children without the creative's seed. Unity gets the job done. Unity is not chaotic. Unity has an order. That order is illustrated in h11.

I have not seen a difference between Candy and the mare/colt mating rituals I've witnessed among the wild mustangs. Among some other species, such as birds, yes, but not among horses. The elder males were the ones who approved or disapproved of the wild colts. Candy is an unusual mare, I'll admit, as she in heat for about half of the entire year. Her biological clock is ticking, as we humans say; so there is a less discriminating mare there. I'll give you that much. As far as her strength goes, she gave Bo a nasty bite on his side yesterday. Poor Bo is as non-aggressiveness as any gelding I've seen or ridden, and Candy, though open when in heat, is a nasty and territorial bitch when not. Bo finally had enough and charged her after that bite. Candy finally backed off and kept her distance, but we had to lock Bo up in his own pen. It's just good horse sense.
 

anemos

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Further back to that study, it is believed the female picks the stronger gene when she has the option to choose because she has one egg to fertilize. One time a month to ovulate. She has one chance to get it right. Where as the man has many, many, many, seeds available.

Umm, not exctly .The choice words, it's better to be in brackets, if the theory you mention is the good gene theory Or you talk about natural/sexual selection, as mentioned in evolution theory. ISince in some species males act as mothers and there we see different patterns, reverse to be more accurate, then it's about roles and not genders.
 

anemos

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In most discussions about hex 2, when the word " submissive" appears , most of the time objections follows . To me, 2 is yelding, submissive, and it's not negative at all.
 

charly

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Thanks for interesting takes on 2.
Two is unassuming I guess, It's main idea is to FOLLOW whatever will come.
But it is receptive at the same time....So Guess it would mean that the person concerned
is open to initiative and will follow you *querent - but would not lead. Because 2 cannot
be a leader! It only provides space for initiative......
:bag: SO IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE RIDER really like you said Sooo....
Hmmm.....
Hi, Chris:

I like the metaphor of Bruce about being one with the horse. Of course, things are not what they seem, I'm sure not all depends of the rider. What happens, I believe, is that the rider is human, like us. And we have some idea about the drives of his behavior while the horse has his own ideas and purposes about which we know little, for being generous with ourselves.

In the case of H.2 the horse is a she-horse, not only non human but female. Twice mysterious from the point of view of traditional imperial chinese thinking (post Qin and post Han) with its increasing prejudice in favor of male supremacy.

To dominate the she-horse is not to become one with her. Instead of exerting force is needed some sort of accomodation between the purposes and feelings of both parts in a higher level of harmony. And to harmonize the yin with the yang, in plain chinese, means LOVE. Or making love, if we prefer so.

All the best,


Charly

In Zhous time the process of yangization was not so avanced as in imperial times and remnants of old comunal uses, fertility rites and female consideration often arose.
 

charly

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In most discussions about hex 2, when the word " submissive" appears , most of the time objections follows . To me, 2 is yelding, submissive, and it's not negative at all.
Hi, María:

I believe that the opposition between H.1 and H.2, in early Zhou time, is better understand in terms of hard / soft, stiff / flexible, dry / wet, outer / inner (of course NOT Heaven / Earth and NOT positive / negative) . No opposition between Heaven and Earth, Heaven and Earth meant the Universe, Nature.

There was nothing like a mandate of Heaven over the Earth, the Earth was not ruled by the Heaven but both were ruled by a Supreme Unity. The Mandate of Heaven was an abstract political idea invented by the Zhous to justify the change of dynasty whith the implicit value of people's sovereignty which was almost lost during imperial times.

The intercourse of Heaven and Earth was almost sexual, or maybe quite sexual. The time of intercourse was a time of life and joy. Lack of intercourse was a time of sadness or at least of standing by.

All the best,

Charly
 
S

sooo

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In most discussions about hex 2, when the word " submissive" appears , most of the time objections follows . To me, 2 is yelding, submissive, and it's not negative at all.

In this age of feminism, female and submission used together is considered politically incorrect, punishable by death. Well, death in the minds of feminists anyway. Yet submission is not a derogatory word, and it does not imply weakness. On this we agree. I had mentioned that in 11, the reason the male principle is below the female principle is the male's deference to the female. I understand Charly's historical reference, but I still see the two primal forces as being heaven/creative and earth/receptive, or spirit/mind and physical/body, which the brain plays a role of both. Anyway, this deference shown to the receptive by the creative (use which ever term you're comfortable with, they all infer the same idea), is a form of submission. Since heaven is tireless, I hardly view heaven's deference as being weak.

noun
noun: deference

humble submission and respect.

In this context, submission is mutual and in neither is it to be confused with weakness. There is no "boss", and no servant either, among these primal forces. Submission is a virtue when for a noble purpose. Life is a noble purpose, growing a garden is a noble deed, and 11 brings this to the foreground.
 

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