Question regarding 38.3 and 6 and 16.2,3 and 6

[marijke]

Hi everyone,
Who could please help me out on this one? I would be really thankful! It's quite a story but a lot happened. It all started second half of 2005. I noticed that a nice gay was liking me. We first noticed eachother in a store that we regularly visit and a lot of this story takes place in clubs he owns . He was watching me all the time and started flirting. I ended my relationship, not because of the other guy, but because me thinking of someone else so much made me rethink it all. It's been a good dicision, despite the situation whith the other guy. Eventually i had discovered (not from him at first) he had a girlfriend for 10 years with whom he has a 4 year old child. I do not want to mess in anyone's relationship, especially when there's a child involved, but do feel, that how he acts says that things are not allraight between them.
From the start i always felt his hesitation. He was flirting intensly, but was also keeping his distance, for the first months we rarely talked and never had a real conversation. The tension was pretty heavy, it still is. I always felt that if i responded to one of his flirtations or bring it out in the open he would run away. A friend of mine said about it: he's coming on to you like a freak but is hesitating for some reason. Liking someone already makes me insecure, but this made it worse. Didn't know what to do and was doubting myself. Also questioned if he was just playing games, probably not though. But i was to insecure to go up to him and be myself.
Meanwhile i had asked the i ching a question, only saying his name. It gave 38 with 3 and 6 changing, which ends in 34.
One night in February 2006 I got drunk and asked for a kiss. He came straight away, gave me a kiss on the mouth and then i left, but when i was outside he was suddenly there and we started to fool around. But i was doubting his intenstions. Instead of stopping it, in my drunkness i continued and got a bit defensive, and said stuff like nothing is gonna happen, you have a girlfriend. After that he nervously avoided me for 2 months, also when i was in the club. It seemed as if he was afraid. Definately some tension was going on. Meanwhile i asked the i ching another question saying: How could i manage that he's attracted to me as much as possible (maybe a stupid question but i didn't want to lose what had been going on between us), and got answered 16.2+3 and 6.
As soon as i saw he was relaxing and looking for a bit of attention from me, i explained myself that i didn't act like that because i judged him but because i wasn't feeling allraight with it. Eversince he was flirting with me more and more again. But when i asked him what was going on between us somewhere in October he denied that there was anything going one. I had to ask because questions drove me crazy again and rather heard something negative in order to let it go. I already expected the answer and only told him that i knew he wasn't being honest but that it was ok and that i would let it go. After that he was still looking for my attention, sometimes nervously, and always flirting with me, but also do feel the hesitation still.
After he denied everything in October, i try to be more relaxed about it. Not giving response to his flirtations which is difficult because he sometimes does anything to get my attention. Depsite everything i do still like him but try not have any expectations and even try to forget it. But then last week i got invited to come to his club by a dj who had to play there. I didn't go up to the guy, instead of that he hang around my group of friends all night. Watched me lot of the times and did some freaky things in order to flirt and get my attention. Maybe even his defensive attitude is becoming a bit less and he's trying to be more relaxed. I still think the answers i got from the i ching are still going on, probably even line 38.6 hasn't been completed yet. The situation did make me think about myself and i think i changed. I except that he's still not out of my head for some reason, but try not to analyse anymore or have any expectations. I try to keep my head straight, also by not drinking too much, because i might act different or say funny stuff which could scare him. Most of all i try not to forget about myself and what's good for me. I'll go one with my life and if he would be coming sometime it's cool, allthough he would need to gain some trust from me etc.
But could anyone please tell me what they think is going on, and how my attitude should realy be especilly in regard to hexagram 34, it is somewhat clear to me but not totally, And is line 38.6 still going on?
Thank you so much!
Regards,

 

[willowfox]

"Meanwhile i had asked the i ching a question, only saying his name. It gave 38 with 3 and 6 changing, which ends in 34. But could anyone please tell me what they think is going on, and how my attitude should realy be especilly in regard to hexagram 34, it is somewhat clear to me but not totally, And is line 38.6 still going on?"

Hex 38.3 suggests that at that time you felt the progress that you had been making blocked and so this made you feel humiliated. But the line says that you should stick with the man that you feel is right for you.

Hex 38.6 there was a misunderstanding in your relationship with this guy which seems to be continuing, it says that you were probably very angry with him at sometime but give him a chance because he has no bad intentions toward you, in fact he wants to be with you, as a partner. It is you who is making the mistake here by not understanding what his true intentions are.

Hex 34 you are the driving force for this guy, so you must take his feelings into account, think before you take any kind of action in this affair, avoid upsetting the situation by doing something stupid, so do the right thing, this will lead you to overcoming the obstacle that is now blocking you.

 

[marijke]

Hi, first of all thank you for your reply and also for taking the effort to read it all!
Am only a bit confused about line 38.6. The way i read it, is that he is the one who is keeping himself aloof and taking up his bow . The text also says that he is looking at the subject of line 3, whose carriage was dragged backward (me):

The sixth line, yang, shows one who maintains harmony in a tumultuous situation. This person meets with the person of the third line, whose carriage was dragged backward. At first this person sees a carriage full of ghosts, and thus takes up his bow, but then realizes it is a dear relative. All doubts are cleared.

I have to say it always has felt like that to me, that he likes me a lot, but thinks it's not going to work out anyway for some reason and that it endangers his situation at home maybe (maybe he doens't want or dare to give up his current relationship, or might not even have considered it). Every time i tried to make myself clear (one of the explanations of this line advices to make yourself clear, otherwise the other might guess wrong and shoot) he denied anything was going on or even that he was flirting, which is complete nonsence. Or other times that i only dared to say something about it, slighty under the influence of some alcohol though but not nessecarily drunk, he tended to take distance. Maybe i had been to straight forward those times or he thought i was not serious.

For instance, in the end of last year i was at his club. He was giving attention all the time, but in the end i got too drunk (stupid, and it's not going to happen anymore) i can't recall what happened or what i might have said. Nothing hateful for sure though. Anyway, the next week i go there being sober. I knew he had to go to one of his other clubs, but he left whithout saying hello or anything. Meanwhile he did bump into my back while it was not busy, there was no reason. And then he left by taking such detour in order for him to pass me in front of my face so i could see him passing me. He could have also gone for the way straight out. A friend of mine noticed he seemed to be hesitating for a minute to leave at the exit and then he left. It would have been more reasonable for him to have at least say hello or anything. The next time, a few weeks later, also the last time i saw him, he was looking for attention again the whole night.

This all makes me wonder who is taking up his bow and doubting the other. I must confess that it makes me a bit insecure, doubting him too and being a bit defensive, but it's started by his hesitating and defensive behaviour. Could you please tell me, having read this, if you think it's still me making the mistake?
Thank you for everything!

 

[willowfox]

The only thing that I can suggest that you do is to corner him and have a good talk with him because hex 6 suggests that your position is unclear and this has lead to the situation deteriorating, line 38.6 misunderstandings, so a solution must be found. Perhaps seeking a go between might be a good idea, they could possibly bring the two of you together. I think that you have hesitated far too long, so get on with it and make your approach, this will finally bring about a break through.

 

[marijke]

Hi, thanks again! This confirmed a bit what i was thinking. Cornering him might only scare him, it hasn't worked in the past. Maybe i could only do that when i would ask him what he's doing when he flirts with me again, so he could hardly deny he's doing it and tell him that i do realy like him and it's hurting me if he doesn't have any further intensions with it. Have been thinking about that. But considering is actions in the past the outcome is more likely to be negative.
Think indeed it's best that somebody else will talk to him about it, thanks for confirming that for me! Hexagram 16 already suggested that, but was always too scared to do that. A few people are willing though, and are already slightly trying to make us have upportunities to interact. Maybe i should have one of them tell him that i'm not playing games but i realy like him. Think the time is right for something like that, because i do sense that he recently is trying to act more normal and be relaxed with me.

Thanks and all the best!

 

[autumn]

16.2.3 does not change to 6, it changes to 32. It's an interesting answer. It's giving you a picture of the many options both you and he have here. Look closely at the experiences being described, because you can choose the one you want. "How do I continue to flirt with this unavailable man?"

In your reading, the primary hexagram of 16 describes your flirtation and preparations for "courtship". There are two ways to look at this reading. One way is to interpret both changing lines as describing complementary roles in the present situation of "16". Line 2 describes one person who will not be influenced. Perhaps "playing hard to get" would describe the role. Line 3 describes another person waiting for the right moment, and fearing that they may miss an opportunity. The context of the situation is endurance, which describes your intention- how do I manage it. How do I let it continue.

To look deeper than the present situation you can trace the expected outcomes of these roles over time. If you look at the individual progression of your roles, if you continue to be "firm as a rock" and unmoved into involvement, then 16.2 results in hexagram 40, a release of tension. Specifically, line 2 of 40 describes the outcome of this choice. Line 2 of hexagram 40 describes a man overcoming the temptation of flattery. This is one path in the situation.

Another path is to continue the dymanic described by the whole picture of 16.2.3. (32). In that case, Line 2 progresses to hexagram 40, but instead of ending in 40.2, moves to 40.3, before transitioning into the tendential hexagram of 32. When 16.2 transitions to hexagram 40.3, the situation has become like a person who is careless with their valuable possessions. They are left unguarded, which tempts robbers to steal. In 40.3, a warning is given. If you wish to continue to have your possessions as an enduring possession, (32) then you must guard them well.

Now the transition can be examined from the perspective of the other role in the present situation, 16.3. The one who is seeking the right moment, fearful of losing an opportunity in Line 3 transitions to 62. Hexagram 62 describes an excessive amount of baggage. Suddenly, one is overwhelmed by the dreary realities of their life, and loses focus. The outcome of this energy pattern in 16.3 is 62.3- being in harm's way, and being suddenly struck from behind. This is the natural outcome of the role described in 16.3. For this person, the transition continues to 62.2. In 62.2, as a result of the misfortune suffered in 62.3, the a simple and indirect method of ending conflict is chosen, and this method of solving a problem simply allows the enduring things to continue. (32).

So, the outcome for you is either releasing the situation or putting out your jewels for the theif. The outcome for him is either letting the golden moment slip by and paying attention to the details of his life, or losing focus, and being struck hard from behind with a large stick.

Don't you love it. Even when you get the kind of questions and advice on this thread, still, there is some sanity in the answer.

 

[autumn]

You know.. I've re-read this, and I don't know that your role might be better described by 16.3 than 16.2. The roles may be actually be reversed from the way I originally interpreted them. You may be waiting for something to happen, and be about to get hurt (62.3) instead of the other way around, because quite frankly, it doesn't sound to me like he's very interested in you at all.

I wouldn't take "hesitating at the door" as a serious sign he's interested in getting involved with you at all, especially since he told you that there's nothing going on between you.

 

[marijke]

Also line 6 of hex 16 is changing, sorry for the misunderstanding

Hi everyone, first i would like to thank everybody for helping me out! Unfortunately there's only a misunderstanding about the changing lines... It's 38.3.6 changing into 34 (for this answer i only concentrated on his name) and 16.2.3.6 changing into 50 (for this answer i asked what i should do in order to make feel attracted to me as much as possible). I only see now that i wrote in such a way that line could have been possibly overlooked. I'm realy sorry and hope you are willing to have a second look at it.

Basically what's going on is that i feel there's quite intens tensions going on between us for about 1,5 years. Everytime i'm around i sense he's aware of me, and i'm ofcourse very aware of him. He's looking at me and whenever possible trying to approach me, flirting with me. Sometimes he does and says quite weird stuff, just to have something to say or do. Everybody around notices his behaviour, also people i hadn't talked to about it. He also tries to make contact with my friends, the last time he even hung around my group of friends all night...

But everytime his self created boundries are crossed he's getting nervous and backs off. It's because i come too close, either because it's becoming too obvious for the outer world, or that things are becoming too obvious between us. A few monts ago, when i asked what it was that was going on between us he also nervously denied anything was going on between us, becoming even a bit rude. I would say if a guy approaches me saying he likes me and it's not likewise i wouldn't have become rude. It was as if he indeed had to defend himself.

We aslo fooled around one night beginning of last year, but i was pretty drunk. Because i doubted his intensions, partially because of his hesitating behaviour and him having a girlfriend, i was insecure and became a bit defensive. After that he nervously avoided me for a while and after i explained myself he was coming on to me again.

I would say that if the flirting was only to pimp his ego he would have already brutally ignored me. Somewhere i feel he must realy like me. The way he acts is sometimes burdened, even the way he's keeping himself aloof is in a burdened way.

I would realy appreciate other peoples views since it feels so complicated and i don't know what attitude is best and actions need to be taken. Think hexagram 16 is indeed suggesting a go between.

Thanks so much!!

 

[willowfox]

"16.2.3.6 changing into 50 (for this answer i asked what i should do in order to make feel attracted to me as much as possible)."

Hex 16.2 you must be strong and reliable see the situation clearly and not be misled, so act when the time is right.

Hex 16.3 if you look but don't act then this will bring sadness, so when the time is right go for him.

Hex 16.6 don't get carried away by your hopes and wishes, look at the situation carefully, then you will know what to do.

Hex 50 transform yourself into something delicious, be genuine, be open and kind, be sensitive and modest, and show your interest.

 

[Trojina]

Basically what's going on is that i feel there's quite intens tensions going on between us for about 1,5 years. Everytime i'm around i sense he's aware of me, and i'm ofcourse very aware of him. He's looking at me and whenever possible trying to approach me, flirting with me. Sometimes he does and says quite weird stuff, just to have something to say or do. Everybody around notices his behaviour, also people i hadn't talked to about it. He also tries to make contact with my friends, the last time he even hung around my group of friends all night...

But everytime his self created boundries are crossed he's getting nervous and backs off. It's because i come too close, either because it's becoming too obvious for the outer world, or that things are becoming too obvious between us. A few monts ago, when i asked what it was that was going on between us he also nervously denied anything was going on between us, becoming even a bit rude. I would say if a guy approaches me saying he likes me and it's not likewise i wouldn't have become rude. It was as if he indeed had to defend himself.

I would realy appreciate other peoples views since it feels so complicated and i don't know what attitude is best and actions need to be taken. Think hexagram 16 is indeed suggesting a go between.

Thanks so much!!

Don't waste anymore of you're time on this, take what he actually said (that theres nothing going on between you) at face value, otherwise you're going to be hanging around, hoping and taking every minute gesture of his as a sign of interest. Thats my opinion on reading what you've written, but I think your 16,2,3 and 6 supports how I see it. You're getting alot of exitement up and hanging on in there for a 'sign', line 3 and nothings happening. Consider if after 18 months he hasn't got the initiative to actually make clear his intent or make any kind of move, he really can't be that interested.

It was brave of you to ask him directly what was going on between you but when he was so blunt surely its time for you to walk away. He knows how you feel, if he wants you now its up to him to make the move. Its not at all complicated really, you have to take what hes said as his truth. Going on and on with your own version of how things are, waiting , hoping and wishing is very 16,6, good in pop songs but otherwise very draining.

 

[marijke]

Hi Willowfox,

I agree with your point of view. Try to be relaxed and open to him. But keep my head straight and for sure will not throw myself at him again. I will have someone who will tell him that i am genuine about my feelings (although i told him i still question if he beliefs i am being real about it) for him and that it's slightly hurting and a bit weird if he still flirts without having real feelings for me back. I don't think i'm able to make that clear to him myself and hex 16 is also suggests that. Meanwhile i keep on focussing on my own life, which includes that i could meet someone else, but without losing interest him. Think that would make him lose his guard and mirror his own actions for him. He than won't have to defend himself or fight it, and would realize that the freedom he gained is not what he wants. This is also what one of the explanations of hex 16 says:

"To Catch Something, First Let It Go
Cornered prey will often mount a final desperate attack. To prevent this you let the enemy believe he still has a chance for freedom. His will to fight is thus dampened by his desire to escape. When in the end the freedom is proven a falsehood the enemy's morale will be defeated and he will surrender without a fight."

I also think this process has already started, i'm not trying to be where he is just to enjoy the flirting and seeing him every week anymore. I am not approaching him, but let him come to me when i do see him. Despite this, he is even more persistant in
paying attention all night. Also friends sense this and comment that he seems more confortable recently.

Thank you for your concern! For everybody's effort by the way!
Wish you all the best.

 

[autumn]

Hi Willowfox,

I agree with your point of view. Try to be relaxed and open to him. But keep my head straight and for sure will not throw myself at him again. I will have someone who will tell him that i am genuine about my feelings (although i told him i still question if he beliefs i am being real about it) Genuine feelings are not what he has been looking for from you up until now for him and that it's slightly hurting and a bit weird if he still flirts without having real feelings for me back. I don't think i'm able to make that clear to him myself and hex 16 is also suggests that. Nowhere does 16 suggest that. On the contrary, as what you quoted indicates, 16 is blazing, and shouts, "look at me"
I am not approaching him, but let him come to me when i do see him. Despite this, he is even more persistant in
paying attention all night. Means nothing. Who else is he paying attention to?.

This is very 16.6. If anything 38.3.6. (34) may be telling you to back off, and the negativity in the line commentary could reflect him wishing you would not pursue him.

 

[marijke]

Dear Autumn, i realy don't get the idea you are trying to help me but are just wanting to be negative, and trying to make me think i'm a total idiot.

First of all hexagram 16 clearly states that people will support your actions and that it's advantageous to get help.

In your private messages you are trying to convince me lines 38.6.3 says:

"38.3.6 (34) is really quite negative. I interpret this not as breaking through estrangement with you, but of an almost sadistic kind of manipulation that you have the power to end. The third line is about being robbed and living to tell about it, and having lived is the blessing. The sixth line is about creating an image of devils, but then seeing it is just an illusion, and finding relief from tension"

Legge's translation for instance syas:
‧The topmost NINE, undivided, shows its subject solitary amidst the (prevailing) disunion. (In the subject of the third line (me), he seems to) see a pig bearing on its back a load of mud, (or fancies) there is a carriage full of ghosts. He first bends his bow against him, and afterwards unbends it, (for he discovers) that he is not an assailant to injure, but a near relative. Going forward, he shall meet with (genial) rain, and there will be good fortune.

You more discibe it as though i will find out that he's just an ilusion and that would releave the tension. Sorry, i don't buy that.

An explanation of line 38.3:
Often it seems to a man as though everything were conspiring against him. He sees himself checked and hindered in his progress, insulted and dishonored. However, he must not let himself be misled; despite this opposition, he must cleave to the man with whom he knows he belongs. Thus, notwithstanding the bad beginning, the matter will end well.

It's not just telling about being robbed and living to tell about it, and having lived is the blessing.

Furthemore, hexagram 34 states it's advantageous to be firm and correct and this will make the other do the right thing. That's not negative at all i would say.

line 16.6 does not only state i would only be deluded. It says more. The fact that he would realy like me is not a illusion, i know he does. I'm not stupid. But i shouldn't be deluded by my expectations and confront him with them and be to enthausiastic towards him. Even in sickness i should be humble and try to find harmony.

Hexagram 50 is not only telling this:

"50 is an image of a slow-cooking pot. It is about transforming what's inside of you into something else. If you were to look at 16.2.3.6 (50) as being directed to you alone, then you see the message is 1) there is no change, 2) waiting in anticipation for something that has not come at the right time is unfortunate, 6) your enthusiasm has misunderstanding at its base- look at reality, and finally, when all 3 lines are understood 16- flirting, is transformed, 50. Or in other words, you get over it".

Like you said, but describes a situation in which a go through a process of change in order to be ready for what's coming. It also describes that this process might be painful, but that i will succeed in getting what if i stick to the advice. It's not only telling about me as you suggest but it's an answer to the question: how can i make him feel attracted to me as much as possible.

And then this:
"This is very 16.6. If anything 38.3.6. (34) may be telling you to back off, and the negativity in the line commentary could reflect him wishing you would not pursue him."

You must have forgotten to read that he's drawing attention from me all the time. And i'm not going to pursue him, thanx.

Every time you leave crucial details just so you can make it seem very negative. I don't appreciate your tone of voice. What's your problem? If you're just annoyed by this thread i would suggest you focus on something else yourself like you suggested i should do.

 

[autumn]

Yesterday when I saw "16 is telling me to get a go-between (to talk to him)", I thought about saying, "I agree completely. I think your friend should pass a note to him in the hallway that says, "Do you like Marijke? Circle one YES or NO".

But then you sent the private message to me and I felt sorry for you.

 

[marijke]

Dear Autumn,
I didn't realize that is was out of line to send a private message in which i only thanked for the effort and asked whether you would have liked to take another look at it because a line was forgotten so the outcome would be different.
I take the i ching seriously and am here for serious reason, because i'm in a bothering situation in which i feel stuck.

Good luck and change! Change is good!

 

[luz]

Hi Marijke,

I think Autumn is only trying to help you, I don't see why she would try to make you feel bad, she doesn't even know you. I like the way she interprets those 16 lines and I think she's quite accurate. If you stick to the literal meaning of, let's say, the Wilhelm translation, you will never get a bad answer, or perhaps only a handful of them. You have to see a little further. Search for hex 16, for instance and you will see that is not as rosy as you want it to be.

When I first read your question, I felt the same way she feels about it, that the guy is not really interested. At best, he might be interested in having a little affair with you and if that is what you want then you might be able to break him down and get just that. But I don't think he will leave his girlfriend for you.

Right now you are in love with this guy and you see meaning in every little thing and it inspires you that he spends time flirting with you but, a lot of people like to flirt and then stop there. Girls do it, boys do it. If you asked him what was going on and he said nothing, well, take his words for it.

Guys have a simpler mind than we would like to think they have, if he says nothing is going on, he means that. If he doesn't approach you more openly is because he doesn't want to, not because he has some sort of tortured soul. And having a go in between is kind of ridiculous, unless of course you are 12 years old.

In any case, I hope you fill us in with the resolution of this situation. And good luck.

 

[Sparhawk]

Guys have a simpler mind than we would like to think they have, if he says nothing is going on, he means that. If he doesn't approach you more openly is because he doesn't want to, not because he has some sort of tortured soul.

Great! Can I quote you as a qualified opinion next time I have an argument with my wife??

L

 

[luz]

Disclaimer:


the above is truth, except when they are lying to their wives.

 

[Sparhawk]

Darn "disclaimers"...

Now gals, remember, a man only lies to a woman when he's married.

L

 

[RindaR]

...and then only at Christmastime and birthdays when he's hiding presents...

 

[Trojina]

Guys have a simpler mind than we would like to think they have, .

I think all girl children need to learn this young, it would save bother in later life.

 

[autumn]

I'm not satisfied that I gave her a good reading of 38.3.6. (34). I don't think I emphasized the right commentary.

What is a good reading of 38.3.6. (34) in this situation?

Wilhelm is the only commentary that discusses "cleaving to the man with whom he knows he belongs", but the emphasis of the line is more on living through a barrage of assaults, and standing firm. It's aggressive, you know? The concept of "standing firm" is very similar to 16.2, and so you get a real sense of refusing to be persuaded.

She drew this (38.3.6. 34) when she was concentrating on him and not asking a question, so it's difficult to know exactly what the Yi was trying to show her. I think it was probably advice about how he feels about her. If you interpet it that way, though, then there must be something left out of her story, because the subject of 38.3 is enduring a barrage of aggressive insults and holding on to a partner. She thinks that she is the subject and the "barrage of insults" is his "painful denial of how much he really wants her", but I seriously doubt that. Obviously, he knows she's available, and has known that for a year and a half, and he's not done anything to suggest he wants to leave his girlfriend of 10 years. So, perhaps he is the subject of 38, and the Yi was showing her, "this is how he feels about you".

So, 38.3 would then be about hanging on to his girlfriend? In the midst of her aggressive pursuit? The line changes to 14. 14.6 is highly auspicious line- being "blessed by heaven". (To get to 34).If you look at it this way, it almost looks like he is running in the opposite direction from her and hanging on tight to his girlfriend. Also, if you interpret 38.6 as part of his present state of mind about her, it suggests fear, which is strange. It's almost like he's afraid that he will never be rid of her and she will mess up his relationship.

She doesn't say anything at all when she describes the situation to suggest this is what is going on, but what is a better interpretation? That she should cleave to him, and in the end he will see that there is nothing to fear in her? That's the only other interpretation (and it is the one Willowfox gave).

The positive interpretation for her does not seem to have any relationship to reality- but, who knows?

You know.. if the positive reading is most accurate, and he really is just somehow intimidated by her and really wishes to leave his girlfriend and child for her and he just hasn't done it in 18 months rolleyes: ) in that case the correct advice isn't to hold back and "remain open" or any of the things she's describing, the correct advise is to go immediately to him and clear up the opposition, and let him know his True Love has arrived and he can rid him self of all others. That's the right advice.

?

 

[marijke]

How could somebody that's coming on to somebody else that much he does with me when i'm around be afraid he could never get rid of me and only be afraid i would ruin his life? When he's around he's always coming on to me to flirt, i don't even dare to give response to the flirtings themselves, or even go up to him to flirt, because the few times i said something about he nervously hesitated and rather tended to leave the scene.

The way he acted after we fooled around was rather humiliating (i might have offended him though by the way i said but you have a girlfriend when we fooled around, turning him down that time might have been humiliating for him. Guys don't like that) the way he denied anything was going on was quite coarse, believe me. That time i approached him about it, i was being careful in asking him. Not agressive at all. I expected a negative answer, but rather heard that than living with those questions. I turned away from him without making a big discussion or being agressive. Somebody else would have kicked his ass, for sure. And later that same week, a good example of how he acts, he was in the store, desperately trying to get attention, taking every upportunity to make a remark towards me about whatever, taking a puff from my cigarette which was lying in the ashtray and so on. Stuff like this happens every week there still. The seller notices a long time and thinks a acts weird. Eversince october i haven't approached him about it. And also didn't go to one of his clubs frequently. The times i did his attention was immediately drawn to me and he came up to me. Of which one time end of december, when i, during the course of the night got drunk and started to give attention back. Don't think he likes that when i'm drunk, i can understand, he's in general a rather shy person (People complain about it. They also complain about him being somewhat contact disturbed, a bit contact disturbed or being straight forward in his opion about anything). He gets nervous then, probably afraid i would do something obvious or something he wouldn't know how to handle. Those are the times he tends to avoid me. I rather not get drunk around him, cause i'm afraid myself i would do something stupid. All the other times he comes up to me. I still have my pride, and decided i won't give back that energy or respond to it eversince his denial.

Besides all this I don't think the essence of line 3 is only what you say, legge's is talking about one shouldn't be misled as well as richard wilhelm. Alfred Huang is describing someone reacting to the other but is to weak to make the approach and is being hindered by surrounding lines 2 and 4 (girlfriend and child?). He sees his wagon halted
The oxen reined back. His hair and his nose are cut off. Despite this the 2 will meet anyway. Would the deeper meaning of this only be having lived

It's not that i expect a relationship to be for sure, i am aware of the difficulties discribed in 16 and see them in real life. I am not that naive. In the beginning i did though, but became less and less convinced during the events. A guy only flirting because of his ego would have ignored me all along, even becoming nasty in ignoring me. People around him, that work for him,or in the store who are somewhat his friends have told me this doesn't seem like everyday stuff for him, that they also don't see him flirting with others. I could imagine him being somewhat intimidated by me or even doubting that i've been sincere. Someone once said he's convinced he likes me a lot but is too scared to change his live, or to realy approach me.

I've tried to let go several times and am doing okay with it, but it never entirely left and i would like it to stop. Writing all this doesn't do any good though but i hoped to find more clarity on what i should do.

 

[RindaR]

I think you can find someone much better than this... you're worth it, don't be afraid to wait for the one who will want you without having all these mixed feelings/messages....

Rinda

 

[autumn]

Marijke-
You know the problem with this is that you are interpreting your readings as advice to you about how to act to keep him interested. You've assumed from the beginning that your readings are about that. I'm not sure that they are. They might be more general advice to you.

In fact, there's only two things to recommend here. One- You seem convinced you know what your readings are telling you, and that they support you being involved with this guy. Well, then go do it. Why are you wasting time trying to convince anyone? Go for it.

Or, Two- ask a real question, not "how can I make sure I have my way with this guy", ask "how should I behave with this man to support my greatest happiness and good".

 

[marijke]

Autumn, thank you for the advice, maybe i will. The way the situation is now i can not find my way out. He does anything to avoid confrontations, so i cannot do anything this way and it's not good for me.
Was not writing all this to convince people, but wasn't sure i made clear enough what was actually going on and have difficulties with finding the meaning behind the answers.

Thanx.

 

[anon]

How did it turn out of you in this relationship?