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elkoholik

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Hello all,

Need some help with an interpretation because I don't really think I trust myself to be impartial enough anymore. And since I think I'm kinda psychotic right now, please, someone help point me in the right path?

I've just returned from overseas to my homeland. I've been away for the last 2 years and upon return, find that my bf of 5 years is somewhat different. Colder, indifferent. Well, I thought maybe coz I've just returned, we need some time to warm up again. But it's been almost a month since I've got back, and things have not improved.

And then I find myself having thoughts of breaking up coz there seems no point. And yet, can't bear to. So I'll been vacillating between continuing and terminating the relationship. Truth me told, I've been shedding more tears then I like alone in bed over his aloofness and my dilemma. And so has my emotions, between despair and hope. This is where I start getting psychotic and start hoping Iching can point me the way.

I just asked a series of 3 questions.

Qn: What is the situation of the relationship between me and X now?
An: 6 → 12

Qn: I am extremely tired of my relationship with X now. Is it worth it to continue our relationship?
An: 18 → 64

Qn: How much does X still wants to be in a relationship with me now?
An: 19 → 59

The first 2, I can interprete, but it's the last that throws me off. The individual lines sounds optimistic enough, and yet, if I just take the Hexagrams, it seems to say "Approaching (Hex 19)" "Dispersion (Hex 59)". And yet if you take the 1st 2 questions by itself, it seems to tell me to say "Goodbye".

Help please? I'd be very very very grateful to anyone's take on this set of questions. :bows:
 

clarionbodhi

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the readings are crystal clear. to seek out the fall of the coins to comfort and offer hope for the relationship would be misuse of the oracle at this time. the work for now resides in you. a good next question to ask would be "where do i go from here?" acknowledging that it is time to move on. further, it would help to note the power your attachment has over you - it is the real reason for the struggle you are experiencing - attachments are excellent at compromising our dignity ;)

fwiw:

my advice would be to grieve - let go - open your heart and soul to the great unknown this life has to offer. the adventure of your destiny awaits you - you can do this. there will be other relationships . . .

~m
 

ginnie

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I am extremely tired of my relationship with X now. Is it worth it to continue our relationship?
An: 18 → 64
To start all over again, you would need to find the strength. But line 18.4 indicates you might be a pliant and obedient type of person, not someone who'd really shake him up and make him see the light. If you tolerate his aloofness, if you let him get away with that, you won't be able to rectify what is really bad behavior on his part.

Just because the relationship is conflicted doesn't mean he should be behaving like this towards you. Getting H6 in your first question means that you would need to find someone to intercede on your behalf and make him look at the issues: someone impartial and wise.
 

ginnie

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Qn: How much does X still wants to be in a relationship with me now?
An: 19 → 59
It would be helpful, Elk, if you could indicate the moving lines like this: 19.1.5.6 > 59.

I think the 59 indicates that he is in a state of anger and resentment for some reason -- and that may not have anything to do with you. Could be his aloofness has nothing to do with you, Elk. Could be that something bad happened to him in the 2 years you were away.

Your getting 19.6 is telling me that he might need your help for some reason that perhaps you don't know about right now.

There have been misunderstandings, and that is what H59 is all about: Reuniting people after there have been misunderstandings.

You know, a lot can change in two years. For your own sake, I hope you can get to the bottom of what caused his change of heart towards you. I think you'd feel a lot better if that was cleared up.

In order to do that, you are going to have to find other people who can help you. If I were you, I'd keep it concealed how much you love him and I know you were probably thinking of marrying him when you got back.

Later, when you have regained your strength, approach this matter through intermediaries.

Right now, just rest. Don't keep him and these troubles in your mind. Do other things to take your mind off him. Don't take his behavior toward you personally. You really don't know what's going on, so do your best to let it go for now. For your own peace of mind, stop thinking about this romantic snafu. One thing you could do is read this website and look at all the other romantic snafus!
 

elkoholik

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Hello Ginnie,

Thank you so much for posting your thoughts. It's invaluable coz I didn't manage to see Hex 59 the way you did, about anger and resentment. Somehow, Hex 59 always conjures up the picture of an autumn gust of wind dispersing a pile of leaves that has already been raked up neatly into a pile.

Yes, alot can change in 2 years. And as it is now, I'm just so so so so tired, I don't wanna move, or say anything, or do anything. I just wanna be left alone for now. But, I don't know if I should have done this. After I posted this thread, I asked:

How should I proceed with my relationship with X now?
16 unchanging (PS: I will bear in mind how you recommend to write the hex and the changing lines)

Hex 16, Enthusiasm. Something I am definitely not feeling, nor have the energy to feel now at the moment. Is Iching poking fun of me and my stupidity? :duh: What do you make of this?

Right now, your recommendation about wandering off and not think seems to be the most welcomed one. Except for the hitch about Hex 16. Darn... Though I would have to say, it was sort of helpful reading other's romantic snafus. :) I do realise that by reading the senior members's take on certain readings, I seem to be learning more about Iching.
 

elkoholik

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Hello Cardioeros,

Thank you for your thoughts. Yes, it is really tough to let go. Even without letting go, I am grieving already... I do realise the danger of falling into the trap of desperately consulting the coins demonically in the hope that it will give me something good. I am trying to avoid that and try as best to have a sort of conversation with Iching instead.

I did one last reading before I stepped away and kept my coins. I asked how to proceed in my relationship with X now? Got Hex 16 unchanging. Not meaning to offend sincerely, because I really do appreciate your comments and insight very much, but the final reading seems to go against what you said of "to grieve - let go - open your heart and soul to the great unknown this life has to offer" Unless Hex 16 means to do what you suggest enthusiastically?? :confused:
 

willowfox

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Qn: What is the situation of the relationship between me and X now?
An: 6.5 → 12

Stagnation.

Qn: I am extremely tired of my relationship with X now. Is it worth it to continue our relationship?
An: 18.3,4→ 64

That's up to you, but the relationship is salvageable if you are prepared to put in the effort but line 18.4 says that you cannot just let it drift along as it is, you have to talk to him today and in great depth to find out what his problem is.

Qn: How much does X still wants to be in a relationship with me now?
An: 19 → 59

The spark is still there but you have to get rid of his macho behaviour first.
 

elkoholik

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Hello Willowfox,

So glad to find you online. Yes, Ginnie was also making the same comment about 18.4, how I should shake him up abit. Mmm, I've got a question. Because of my very last question, which was "How should I proceed with my relationship with X now?" received an unchanging Hex 16, do you think the way to go about 18.4 is 16, with Enthusiasm??
 

willowfox

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Yes you need to get on to this guy and push him to find out what he really does want, as I said before you cannot limp along like you are at present, you need to send in the riot police and cause a disturbance in his head. Its time to rock and roll.
 

elkoholik

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:eek: I shall try my best.

Hex 18, Six in the fourth place means:
Tolerating what has been spoiled by the father.
In continuing one sees humiliation.

I just hope I won't be the weak, feeble "son" mentioned in line 4. O dear, let me go look for my best "angry" face to put on...
 

elkoholik

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O Willowfox,

Somehow, despite being depress, you've managed to make me laugh. :rofl:

Yes, I am still thinking how to go about doing it. Not falling into the trap of being too meek in line 4 of Hex 18 and yet not being too aggressive which is the other opposite and will worsen the situation.

But sincerely, thank you Willowfox for the guidance and the chuckle.
 

ginnie

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How should I proceed with my relationship with X now?

Hex 16, Enthusiasm. Something I am definitely not feeling, nor have the energy to feel now at the moment. Is Iching poking fun of me and my stupidity? :duh: What do you make of this?
This is what I make of H16 unchanging: It would be a good idea in general to proceed with your relationship, but do you have the strength right now? The answer to that is "no."

You see, Elk, H16 is the hexagram of music. And this relates to a theme in the I Ching of when is the best time to do things and when is the best time to stay still, rest, and gather your strength for the future. Now is a time when you ought to be resting and building up your strength for the future.

Don't go so much by the titles of the hexagrams, as the titles can be misleading. Sarah Dening has written a translation of the I Ching, and she calls hexagram 16: Thinking Ahead. It means building up your strength for the future, when you will be able to move in a spontaneous way, as if responding to music enthusiastically. But that time is not right now.
 

willowfox

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This is what I make of H16 unchanging: It would be a good idea in general to proceed with your relationship, but do you have the strength right now? The answer to that is "no."

You see, Elk, H16 is the hexagram of music. And this relates to a theme in the I Ching of when is the best time to do things and when is the best time to stay still, rest, and gather your strength for the future. Now is a time when you ought to be resting and building up your strength for the future.

Don't go so much by the titles of the hexagrams, as the titles can be misleading. Sarah Dening has written a translation of the I Ching, and she calls hexagram 16: Thinking Ahead. It means building up your strength for the future, when you will be able to move in a spontaneous way, as if responding to music enthusiastically. But that time is not right now.

In actual fact this hex has 2 meanings, first is to prepare ahead for some activity and the second is to create action now, to create excitement now.

This hex is about inspiring others, so is music, there is certainly nothing to wait for here, its time to rock and roll, now.

So, she needs to find out now, why after 2 years he not bursting with enthusiasm to see her.

So what does she need to wait for? Nothing at all! She has already waited 2 years, so your reading doesn't make any sense whatsoever, to tell her to wait again, I suppose until her hair goes grey?

You say don't go by the title but that's exactly what you have done,"think ahead". Wrong in this case!

You seem to purposely lead the querent in the wrong direction. So, like I said to someone else, I'm glad you are not doing my tax returns.
 
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elkoholik

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Hello Ginnie,

Thanks for your thoughts on Hex 16. I've got a question. You did mention
To start all over again, you would need to find the strength. But line 18.4 indicates you might be a pliant and obedient type of person, not someone who'd really shake him up and make him see the light. If you tolerate his aloofness, if you let him get away with that, you won't be able to rectify what is really bad behavior on his part.
So if I was to take this with Hex 16 as resting and building strength for future now, regarding how I should proceed in our relationship, doesn't resting, being dormant sort of contradicts line 18.4? After having heard your take on Hex 16, which made sort of made sense to me but still kinda fuzzy, I did my own research both with the books I have (Stephen Karcher being one of them) and various online translation like Lise's and also realised that Hex 16 is not as simple as "Enthusiasm". In fact, I found a version which did say Hex 16 is about music. Before the enthusiasm, there needs to be adjustments, vision and preparation.

So, I have another thought, which combines what Willowfox said, what you've said. Please do correct me if I'm wrong, coz I think you can tell, I really am not too good at interpretation. Well, I should rest, make adjustments and preparation as what Hex 16 advises. But I should also start preparing myself, stop being as described in line 18.4.

Question is, when should I then make a stand for myself. When will I know I am ready and move from just preparation and rest into enthusiasm (Hex 16) and speak up, stop tolerating X's aloofness and subjecting myself to indignity and silent tears (Hex 18.4)? Do any of the readings indicate a time?

And o yes, thank you v v v much Ginnie. I understand Hex 16 so much better now. :bows:
 

elkoholik

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O dear... I'm getting confused abt hex 16, whether it's a "NOW" hex, or a "wait, build-up before you launch" hex. :confused:

Is there anyway to tell? I do know some more experience readers can tell base on trigrams, the months or seasons or something like that...
 

willowfox

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O dear... I'm getting confused abt hex 16, whether it's a "NOW" hex, or a "wait, build-up before you launch" hex. :confused:

Is there anyway to tell? I do know some more experience readers can tell base on trigrams, the months or seasons or something like that...
Just go for it, otherwise you will end up like the poor person depicted in line 18.4, humiliated because they listened to "ginnie" and waited, and waited, and got old waiting.

This hex is made up of Thunder over Earth, so follow the "judgement" and get your troops marching. There is nothing left to wait for.
 

ginnie

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Question is, when should I then make a stand for myself. When will I know I am ready and move from just preparation and rest into enthusiasm (Hex 16) and speak up, stop tolerating X's aloofness and subjecting myself to indignity and silent tears (Hex 18.4)? Do any of the readings indicate a time?
Your hex 19, Approach, has told you this. The crying and weeping stage was line 1 moving in H19. You're already finished with that. I'm so glad!

Line 5 is when you get moving. Line 5 is a line where you acquire knowledge and also helpers. And we're trying to help you, too, Elk!

There is nothing stopping you from beginning to talk with some people you know, to try to find out what's been going on with X in the years you were gone, and what's been going on in your hometown in general. Get out and about and you'll know when you're on the right trail.

I tend to think that 19.5 is about gathering all the info you need (knowledge is power!) and also choosing competent people who can help you. After your true helpers are in place and you understand what's been going on in your hometown for the past two years, you shouldn't have any trouble at all handling this situation and turning it completely around. That's my take on your readings, Elk.
 

clarionbodhi

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Hello Cardioeros,


I did one last reading before I stepped away and kept my coins. I asked how to proceed in my relationship with X now? Got Hex 16 unchanging. Not meaning to offend sincerely, because I really do appreciate your comments and insight very much, but the final reading seems to go against what you said of "to grieve - let go - open your heart and soul to the great unknown this life has to offer" Unless Hex 16 means to do what you suggest enthusiastically?? :confused:
no offense taken.

considering the context of your question, the relationship, the oracle advises you get your act together and be proactive in dealing with it's deficiencies. keep in mind that the onus is on you. you must muster the energy and vision at this time in order to lead the relationship to higher ground.
 

elkoholik

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O thank you Willowfox, Ginnie, Cardioeros,

Lots of advice given, lots for me to think about, I guess how am I going to go about talking to X and finding out what's wrong.

Somehow, after all that's been said, line 18.4 really stands out in my mind. Maybe coz I've been the tolerating fool mentioned in the line for way too long, I kinda see myself there.

I promise I'll be back with an update! Just have to give things a think first...
 

elkoholik

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Update!

Hello all!

I'm back with an update. Something happened this week which really threw me off track. I decided to go back to the castings I did and.... Really start wondering what to make of the castings. Just to refresh memory instead of scrolling up and down:

Qn: What is the situation of the relationship between me and X now?
An: 6.2 to 12

Qn: I am extremely tired of my relationship with X now. Is it worth it to continue our relationship?
An: 18.3.4 to 64

Qn: How much does X still wants to be in a relationship with me now?
An: 19.1.5.6 to 59

Qn: How should I proceed with my relationship with X now?
An: 16 unchanging

Now, I did remember all your advice to stop being the weak person depicted in 18.4 and to set about clearing up the misunderstanding (Hex 19 to 59), find out why X has been aloof and remote and do so in the manner of Hex 16.

However, this week, at a last minute's decision at X's suggestion, we went on a short holiday. Maybe it was the beautiful hotel, maybe it was the foreign environment, but somehow, he was no longer the stranger that initially drove me to consult the Iching, but the same old X I knew.

What happened??!?:eek: Within a week of consulting the Iching and coming to the above conclusions to what I should do, how I should proceed, before I can even make a move, the entire situation underwent a 180degree transformation.

Any thought Ginnie? Willowfox? How does what just happened this week relates to the previous readings I did? I just can't figure it out...
 

willowfox

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Remember, you were the one complaining and asking what to do about him, and your answers came back that if he continues to do nothing then ask him what's the story.

Look back, I said that the relationship was salvageable, that there was still a spark there, so I assume that I was right, as I said it was up to you whether you wanted to continue but I certainly never told you to stop seeing him, as your answers implied a possible livening up of the affair. You were despondent the other week about the situation. So, his actions are a little odd cosidering his behaviour towards you lately but not unpredictable.
 

elkoholik

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Yup, I do remember. Jus, kinda feeling a little lost now coz I've been trying to calm myself down, prepare myself and then to ask him what exactly is wrong, but was thrown a curved ball at the last minute.

So Willowfox, what made you say his actions are a little odd but not unpredictable? I would just like to know how you went about your deductions from the hexagrams so that I can pick up a thing or two too to help in my future interpretations of castings. Thank you!
 

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