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I asked it basicly what would bring greater balance and clarity to my life, what may be holding me back. It said:

Hide your light, Protect yourself, accept and begin a difficult task, hidden positive influences.


The hexagram is for "Brightness, Hiding"

The changing lines are 1, 5 and 6. And lead to hexagram 53, gradual advancing.

So as I take it I should for the next 6 days with 6 daily intervals (for each day 1 full hexagram) accept menial labor, and do the low down and dirty Zen work...

First changing line says:

Brightness, Hiding in Flight,
Drooping one's Wings,
A chun tzu moving;
Three days, not eating. (Spiritual, corporal? Both?)
Have a direction to go.
A Lord: the people possess words.

b) A chun tuz moving
Righteously not eating indeed.

Fifth changing line says:

Winnowing Son's Brightness Hiding.
Advantageous Trial Harvesting.

Commentary: You have to pretend to be part of this situation. Disguise yourself. Don't loose your integridy. You will survive. Be clear about what is really happening. This will bring profit and insight.

Sixth changing line:

The tradional commentary and meaning makes no sense to me so I'll write the summed commentary.

Commentary: The cycle is over. The tyrant falls. The darkening ends and you are free. Life once more comes forth from hardship. Think about this set of events and how it started. Can you understand why? There is a lesson to be learned.


It then leads to hexagram 53 which is a very alluring one. Anyhow I better get to my menial labor... Any comments?
 
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bruce_g

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I’m not sure where menial labor comes from?

The best way to make darkness fall is to make sun rise. But there must be a sun to begin with, preferably a bright and hot one. Foster (feed, nourish) the light inside and it gradually makes its way to showing outwardly.
 

dobro p

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"I asked it basicly what would bring greater balance and clarity to my life, what may be holding me back."

That's a dumb question, pacman. Don't take it personally, cuz a lot of people who aren't familiar with the oracle ask dumb questions at first. After you've used the Yi for a while, you learn how to ask smart questions.

What's wrong with the question? Well, for one thing, it isn't one question; it's two. For another thing, the questions are moving in opposite directions, so it's almost impossible to answer. In effect, you're asking something like: "What's a good way for me to proceed; what's stopping me from proceeding?" It's almost impossible to answer. My take on the Yi's response is that it's addressing the issue of how you're darkening the light of your own question. :)

So, what would be a smart question in your case? Here's one: What do I need to know in order to bring more balance and clarity to my life?
 
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bruce_g

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I don’t think it’s a dumb question just because it’s not pigeonholed to a singular narrow answer. I often ask open ended questions or present more than one option for Yi to address.
 
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Well it's not as dumb as you think. They both adress the same phenomenon. There are not two variables here... but there are two questions that get at a variable both reveal togather: "What obstacle should I address in order to bring greater clarity and balance to my life" basicly.... I agree what i put down almost sounds like two questions with two able answers. But often I put "two questions" down in order to narrow the feild of questioning even moreso... becuase the two togather are more precise than one alone.

The what is holding me back was really the precise thing I wanted to address, in light of achieving greater balance...

Frankly I think what is most important is that YOU know what is the question. Not that you have perfect gramatical phrasing of it, written on a sheet of paper, so a logical philosopher can decipher it perfectly.

I'm glad you said what you did though. It's a very good point.

It took some time but now I know exactly what it means.

As it was adressing somthing I had recently decided on earlier that day. Uncanny... ;)
 
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nicky_p

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pacman7331 said:
Frankly I think what is most important is that YOU know what is the question. Not that you have perfect gramatical phrasing of it, written on a sheet of paper, so a logical philosopher can decipher it perfectly.

Hi Pacman,

I agree - and I also find that there are times when words are completely insufficient. There are times when my questioning has boiled down to something along the lines of:

blergh! :hissy: :( :blush:!!! (now that really IS dumb!!lol)

And.... although it makes it a lot harder for anyone else to help with the answers... on the upside - I find the uncanniness quota raises significantly. An asking for 'wisdom in faith' moment :).

It seems an individual relationship thing - what works for one doesn't always work for another - needs must.
 

dobro p

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I don't care about grammar. But to suggest that concern for clear thinking is a petty concern for things like grammar is just another example of stupid thinking.

But I *do* think that the oracle reads the intent of your question even more faithfully than you think it does. And I also think that questions that are accompanied by sincere emotion are especially effective.

What I take issue with is unclear thinking when you're consulting the oracle. I really do think that if your mind and your question is all over the place when you consult, that you will get a seriously substandard result, even if you *think* you're accessing quality. I mean, how can a confused mind get a good result? Come on...
 

nicky_p

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Hi Dobro,

I guess that depends on your definition of a good result.

The advice recieved when in a bit of a state may not be considered very sage by some but when you are really confused or distraught even a pinprick of clarity can be just what you need. Some gentle practical advice such as - calm down and why don't you get something to eat? Or a bit of a telling off for getting myself into such a state in the first place :D

Whilst it is true that clear and precise questioning coupled with an idea of your intended outcome yields clear direction and advice, I don't think that advice should be automatically discarded because you weren't perfectly, precisely clear when bringing your question to the table. It also seems to open up the opportunity for something else to pop in and make you think about.

I suppose, for me, what it boils down to is your need in the moment.
 

Trojina

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Agreeing with Nicky mostly. Sometimes i find a much better answer when just considering a situation. Sometimes I'm truly amazed how the Yi can respond so perfectly to no such 'perfectly formed' question. It ain't stupid ya know:D Its not an idiot you gotta spell every detail out to.:D However I can see for clarity of ones own understanding oftentimes it is good to have a precise question or at least a question that doesn't include option a and b. Sometimes though it really doesn't seem to matter. I would find it quite harmonious way for me to just present the situation and ask Yi "What do you think ?". Then I found this article on Harmens site call "Questioning the Question"

I quote as I cannot get links right :brickwall:

(I got this though www.i-tjingcentrum.nl)

From Harmens site

"I don't know where and when this practise of asking questions originated. All I know is that in all the old Chinese Yi books that I have read there is no mention of 'asking a question'. In the old days you consulted the oracle not by asking a question but by addressing a (potential) situation. You described in short what was going on, what elements were involved, how you got there a nd then you consulted the oracle to find out how the spirits thought about all this"
 

dobro p

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"In the old days you consulted the oracle not by asking a question but by addressing a (potential) situation. You described in short what was going on, what elements were involved, how you got there a nd then you consulted the oracle to find out how the spirits thought about all this"

Yeah, I think this is excellent. You address the situation rather than condensing what you think about the situation into words. In fact, if you can get beyond words completely, and just *image* the situation in your mind, it's even better. And if there's some clean emotion in there as well, it's better again.

But having said that, I think a lot of people have very busy minds and rather disorganized minds. I think a lot of people operate with the oracle on the verbal/word level, asking questions made of words. So, if you're going to do that, the least you can do is imbue the words you put to the oracle with clarity and beauty. The reason I say that is as much for your own sake as for the oracle's. If you are clear about what you're asking about, you will be that much clearer when it comes time to interpret the result the Yi gives you in answer to your enquiry. If you're muddled about what you're asking, you'll tend to be muddled about the interpretation.
 

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