Relationship II

[moonrise]

Hi!

maybe you will roll your eyes, but here is another question about this much older friend of mine with whom I just recently broke up the communication.

Maybe you will not even bother to look at this...but I had to ask and post it here.

I sent him an email and told him how I trully feel about his harsh and cold words and attitude. But now after all the fire and expressing myself which felt fair and just, I am totally heart broken.
I love this person so much and I just wish we could still be friends.

I asked Yi Jing: give me an insight into the relation with this person.

I got 48.1.3.4.5 ->54

From this I am getting that I should clearly take care of myself. Of my own well and that attracts people. But it is also true that I do have something to offer but the other doesn't see it. But eventuylly he might.
From 54 I get that this is not a balanced relationship, one is having the upper hand; this is my friend since everything is according to his rules. This hexagram is saying again that I should not abandon myself and that I am not less then him.

Then I asked what shoould I do about him?
I got 45.2.6

This I do not understand...Line 2 is saying that there is connection between us and we will be drawn to each other and for that I need to do nothing.
But line 6 is saying that I should express my sorrow and hurt.

How does these two match?
And...I did express how I feel and he is not responding to it; I cannot write to him again, this is harrasing him and banging against the closed door - as also one Yi Jing told me.

Can please someone shed some light on 45.6? I certainly do not feel to write him again.

Then I asked if he will reply to my email which I sent.
I got 14 unchanging.

What does this mean? it is a powerful and fortunate hexagram...I don't think Yi Jing is a tool to answer yes or no questions, but still I asked. It is a good hexagram, I am inclined to take it as a yes.

Now, if I sum up all the answers, I think like this: I should not do anything and just wait that we are reunated and maybe this means that he will respond. Then I can tell him how hurtful it was for me.
In hex 14 there is a warning not to get swayed by success - so when he answers, I should not let my pride take over and be careful how I express myself. But I can tell him that I was sad.

This is how I see all this...and I need your help here, because I am prejudiced and maybe all this is just my wishful thinking.

It was a long post...and a question asked again, but still I hope someone will reply, because I need some insight into this, it really hurts me so much.

Thanks!

 

[dobro p]

Hi Moonrise

I'm going to break with my usual way of reading here and take a different tack.

"I asked Yi Jing: give me an insight into the relation with this person.

I got 48.1.3.4.5 ->54"

This is really intriguing, cuz I can see at least two readings right off the bat. On the one hand, it seems to be saying: "Going deeply into the relationship with this person draws on love and life in a way that renders you powerless," and on the other hand it seems to be saying: "Going deeply into the relationship with this person draws on love and life and love that is characteristic of the maiden who moves into the orbit of her life partner." In either instance, you're going deep and drawing on love and life. Now, here's where I break with the way I usually deal with stuff in this forum.

"From this I am getting that I should clearly take care of myself."

I don't get that at all. So the conclusion I draw from what you say is that you're projecting this meaning onto the Yi from your own issues. In other words, you feel a need to take care of yourself in this relationship. Good. That's healthy.

"Of my own well and that attracts people."

You feel you attract people. That's not in the Yi, but that's how you feel. There's no problem in attracting people (it happens all the time); but I'm wondering about the connection between your self-image and the idea you have that you attract people.

"But it is also true that I do have something to offer but the other doesn't see it. But eventuylly he might."

Again, having something to offer is not an obvious element of 48. One of the individual lines you drew might be interpreted that way, but you drew *four* lines, three of which don't have anything like that meaning. Also, it seems to me that you want him to see that you have something to offer. Fair enough, but that's not in the Hex or the lines you drew.

"From 54 I get that this is not a balanced relationship, one is having the upper hand"

I understand how you might think that from the text of 54, but you have to understand a couple of things, and the first and most important is that the Yi is SYMBOLIC. That image of the Marrying Maiden is symbolic of a situation in which you don't have power; it isn't necessarily a lack of power in relation to another person; it isn't necessarily an inequity. The second thing you need to understand is that occasionally the Yi uses the symbolism of its text in a fairly literal way, and that this *might* actually indicate an inequity in the relationship you have with this guy, simply because the imagery of 54 is that of man/woman in the consummation stages of relationship. Only you can say for sure. But I'd opt for the first interpretation if you were unsure.

"This hexagram is saying again that I should not abandon myself and that I am not less then him."

I don't read it that way at all, but the fact that *you* read it that way indicates how important these issues are for you.

Okay, to summarise: you feel that it's important to take care of yourself, that you're attractive to people, that you have something to offer people that they don't always appreciate, that the relationship with him is now characterized by inequity but this is unjust and you shouldn't allow it.

Now, just between you and me and the rest of the board, I find this *much* more significant for the time being than your 48>54 draw, cuz what I've outlined as your concerns and attitude is how you're seeing the situation (as near as I can tell). It's what you have to deal with before you stand the slimmest chance of seeing what 48>54 is saying to you.

I haven't dealt with the rest of your post, cuz I think you can deal with the rest of it in the same way that I have, if you're that way inclined. Look at what you've written as if it were a diary entry that revealed how you feel, what you want, and what you subconsciously believe. I really think that will tell you more about what's going on with the relationship than any oracle consultation.

 

[moonrise]

Hi Dobro!

Thank you for your insight.

Just a slight correction because I didn't express myself clearly. I don't think that I am atractive

, what I wanted to say is that if a person takes care of him/her self and has the inner source (well), the person is attractive. People get atteacted to this inner wisdom, source whatever you call it. By taking care I mean being in touch with the inner source.
What atracts is inner strenght, intelligence and insight - and here I was lacking it, in this relationship. Or I was neglecting it, to listen to myself. So, I got it from Yi Jing that if I stand on my own feet and have my inner source, this attracts people naturally without me trying to chase them - which I still need to learn or get to.

That I have somethig to offer - I understood that because the line is saying: the well is clean but nobody drinks out of it. if the king were smart we could be happy together. there is a smart man available, we could drink from this well, but people don't use it.

So, I felt like he is in a way not recognizing what is there. What is there - by this I refer to my insight and feeling about us, that how I see our relation and him should be taken into consideration and not that he is trying to impose his vision on me, not being ready to hear how I see this matter.

The reason why I feel that it is about him, not me is because I always saw him as this kind of source, of wisdom and intelligence and I still do and I always considered that I have nothig to give to him, that my insights don't matter. So, I understod now that I am getting the message that there might be somethig that I have, too, but he keeps having this patronising attitude and not even considering if maybe there is some point in what I have to say.

And as for the maiden - I do feel that the issue here is that he is making the rules of how we relate- and I do feel weak.

I understood that Yi Jing is trying to show me what the problem is and what is causing my pain and what I should alter.

"Okay, to summarise: you feel that it's important to take care of yourself, that you're attractive to people, that you have something to offer people that they don't always appreciate, that the relationship with him is now characterized by inequity but this is unjust and you shouldn't allow it."

->not quite so. Well, yes, it is important to take care of myself, of my inner well. No, I don't think that I am attractive, actually I don't bother about it.
If I have something to offer, I don't know and I do not bother about that either. If people see something in me or not, I don't care. I am as I am.

But I feel that it is time for me to recognize that what I think, feel and see about this PARTICULAR relationship is valid and yes, it should be taken into account - by myself first, because for all this time I was neglecting my feelings and insigts about this man and our communication, because I trusted him so much (he is so much older) and I felt weaker and more stupid, immature than him. I was in a position: he is always right and I am always wrong and by this I was heavily neglecting my inner feeling and many times going against myself (eg.when his words hurt me I took it that it is only my ego, when now I start to see that maybe he can trully be disrespectful and inconsiderate).
Yes, I do feel that this relationship is caracterized by inequity because he has been a father figure for me, a person whom I respect and I trust his wisdom but now it is maybe time to recognize that he can misjudge and misunderstand some things too and that, yes, he should be ready to hear how I feel and how I see our relationship and take into consideration.
Time to pay attention to my inner wisdom, not only his.

These are my feelings about the matter and in a way I thought that Yi Jing confirmed it. But it is true that I of course I might be only seeing what I want to see, that is why I appreciate if others can elucidate the matter and see it more objectively.

I would be happy to see how you see the message from the oracle, could you please share?

Thank you.

 

[dobro p]

First, what are you referring to my 'the message from the oracle'? (I thought I'd already done that lol.)

Second, after reading your more recent post, I've decided I'm not in much of position to help you with this one, for the very simple reason that you seem to be getting a *ton* of meaning out of interacting with the oracle yourself. You know, there are people who draw a hex or a line and who are genuinely puzzled by what it means - they draw blank. (The reason I responded at length was cuz I thought you might fall into that category.) But you're working the oracle well - it suggests meanings to you and you're interpreting what you get in terms of the real situation you're enquiring about. That's exactly how to do it. I can't help you with that, cuz those are *your* associations, and they're only for you. (Not only that, but after looking at the more detailed interpretations in your post, I think you're on track.) Finally, you're putting the focus where it well and truly belongs - on *your* work with understanding the situation, and whether you're doing oracle work or whether you're without that useful instrument, the work you do is the most valuable input you can make.

 

[moonrise]

Hi Dobro,

thanks for the answer...but I admit, in this situation I am filled with emotions and I cannot see it objectively.

So, I would need the other people's help in the interpretation. I am afraid that I see in the answers only what I want to see.

 

[dobro p]

Well, yeah, but if you're close up in a relationship and not seeing things objectively, that's pretty much the point of the whole thing, right?

And again, I think you're working the oracle material really skillfully.

So what do you want? Do you want somebody to tell you what to do? Well, it won't be me. I took a counselling course (grin).

 

[moonrise]

Yes, I want someone to tell me what to do!

Well, actually, I just need to find a way to let go...maybe it will help me if I understood the situation better.
Whatever is happening and no matter how I see the situation, the fact is that I am terribly hurt. I know actually that there is nothing I can do...but it is very difficult for me to accept the fact that I lost this friend.

So, I want some kind of reassurance...but there is no point in that, I guess. I just need to accept that the friend is gone.

 

[dobro p]

Oh, okay, I see things more clearly now. I'm not always a jerk, but I think I come across as that sometimes to people when I don't understand their situation very clearly. Sorry. I don't think I'm very good at offering believable reassurance in situations like this, and I'm not sure how useful it is for me to reflect what you've said about dealing with an important loss so that you feel understood. I suppose I'm going to revert to common ground at this point, and invoke the oracle. In my first response to your initial post, I said: "This is really intriguing, cuz I can see at least two readings right off the bat. On the one hand, it seems to be saying: "Going deeply into the relationship with this person draws on love and life in a way that renders you powerless," and on the other hand it seems to be saying: "Going deeply into the relationship with this person draws on love and life and love that is characteristic of the maiden who moves into the orbit of her life partner."

Having read what you recently posted, I'm thinking that my former interpretation is way closer to what you need to know now. I doubt that it does much good for me to wish you good luck, but that's what I want to do now.

 

[luz]

Okay, I will tell you what to do.

You said: "The reason why I feel that it is about him, not me is because I always saw him as this kind of source, of wisdom and intelligence and I still do and I always considered that I have nothig to give to him, that my insights don't matter."

My I Ching skills are not very good and my common sense skills are only marginally better but, based on what I read here and other threads by you about the same subject, I think you should forget about this person.

He might be wonderful and very worthy of your love but you should surround yourself with people that make you feel good about who you are and what you have to offer. He can't be too wise, anyway, if he feels that your insights don't count.

Good luck.

 

[moonrise]

Hi!
Dobro, what you said about this relationship is true. I am powerless.
Thanks for wishing me good luck

Lightangel - thanks for telling me what to do

You are right, I should forget about him...but it is not so easy. Although I feel I slowly feel better.

 

[femke]

Hi Moonrise

I had a relationship like that: with a much older guy, on and off, depending on him, getting 54 but also hexagrams suggesting being truly connected. What I can say from experience, not based on your readings: for me it was a necessary, most painful process. I was powerless in that I had to follow my urge to contact the person over and over. If this is the case for you, try to take very good care of yourself while doing so. Don't slam yourself on the head for being powerless. Just work on a stable base in all parts of your life that you do and can control to make a nice soft place to fall when you do. And eventually for me the urge for calling him disappeared. I grew stronger and less dependent on the inside.

Very good luck!

Femke

 

[moonrise]

Hi, Femke,
I am sorry, I just noticed your reply!

It is the same with me as it was with you...I depend mostly on this guy's appreciation.
I need to become independent, that is for sure.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I guess there is a reason why we need to pass through them.