Relationship issue

[Flowing like water]

Hi Everybody!That's my first post. It has been a long time I question the I Ching and interpret answers by myself and having a look at your shared readings. Anyway, because I'm not expert, I'm not sure I can give a right interpretation.A short brief about myself. I'm a 43 years old artist. My personal history influenced all my life, I lost most of my family from 2 to 25 years old. I have been working a lot on myself. Since four years, I have been practicing meditation.One of my bigger issue (it's not the only one...) is about love. I had amazing relationships during my life but none of them was working out: every man loved me so much, but each of them left me. I had a lot of pain, despite that I never stopped believing in love. From different therapies, I found out the origin of most of my pain is about the death of my mother when I was 2 years old.Sometimes I lose my hopes, but then I trust love (both spiritual and relationships' one) and life again. That's me My questions are about a recent relationship. I met a 37 years old guy this summer, an artist too. As soon as we met, there was a strong connection between us, he told me he has a girlfriend, they have a long distance relationship. One year ago they rented a flat together where he lives but since she is mainly working abroad, they don't see each other so much. She is trying to find a stable job here, but it's a bit hard.He told me that when he met her, it came from a long time alone (dating many girls). Since they were "old", they decided to build a serious relationship, starting from renting the flat, even though they don't spend much time together but they hope snce we met the first time, we started to meet everyday along 2 weeks. She wasn't at his place at that time.I knew he was very dangerous to me, I really liked him, as artist and man. I know myself and I thought that I shouldn't date him, because I might easily fall in love. I do not want unstable relationships, I hope I can find a man who wants a stable relationship with me. Despite that, our meeting was so intense in communication, interests and feelings that I decided to let me go, at least for that time. Than we spent 3 weeks traveling (during that time he was texting me every day). When we both were back here, we met and I took the decision (I've never done it before in my life) to tell him I wouldn't continue to see him again if he knows that he is sure about his relationship with his girlfriend. He didn't expect my question. He answered me: I don't know how long my relationship with her can go on. It might finish at any time because there are tensions, mainly regarding the fact she is nervous of not getting the job she applied to here and because it comes from a period of financial crisis.Despite that, he chose her and he wants to see where they can go, he doesn't want to leave her for another. They need to spend more time together and see where they can go.That's why we decided to break up and not seeing each other any more. He would have continued to see me if I didn't speak like that (I didn't ask him to leave her, just to tell me if we want to look inside our encounter and see what it might be or not). I know I did the right choice, because I'm looking for a long relationship, not for adventure.At the same time I'm sad because I really felt a strong connection between us.Since I do not want to lose time (I'm thinking and hoping one day he will come back to me), I asked the I Ching:1. Could you give me an insight into the possibility that D. and her break up and he comes back to me?43 unchangingSince maybe the question was containing two questions, I tried to simplify:2 . Could you please give me an insight into getting into a mutually loving relationship with D. in the next six months?53 unchangingIt looks that I Ching doesn't want really to answer me (or maybe I cannot understand properly). It looks it will take time anyway. I'm patient but if there is no hope, I want to know so that it will be easier to forget him and I won't lose my time with illusions.Thank you a lot for your insight and your time (I know I wrote a lot...)... ))

 

[pooja123]

First of all, you can't ask something like that (asking for some commitment) to a man, when the relationship is new and he is in a relationship with someone. Nevertheless, despite the long distance relationship, he wants to continue with her. Men, have sexual needs. Some don't mind having a fling on the side. Using the wen wang gua najia 6 lines method. your self line falls on the 5th line. His line falls on the 2nd line an officer male line that has marriage line hiding behind him. He is probably getting married soon or already married. Normally line 2 corresponds to line 5 in almost all the hexes. one line has to be a yin and the other a yang to have mutual attraction. Your hex 43 is not one of them. 2 and 5 are both Yang lines. So they don't match. Your line has the child element, sometimes it represents a job or some time a temporary encounter. I use the timing method, and his line shows he is unavailable until 19th or 20th September. you will probably hear from him on that date. You will get news about him. in the hex 43 there are two wife lines. Both doesn't correspond with line 2 officer (husband) line. Although both these women are compatible personality wise. he didn't marry them or did marry but divorced?separated? This man is not even available for commitment. he sits on a yang line. The two wife lines 1 and line 4 are yang lines. yours is a yang line. only one yin line which line 6, not at all compatible because it yang element sitting on a yang line, which shows concerns for evil misdeeds. quoting from Alfred huang's book of complete i-ching " The topmost line is a yin element representing evil. With a long
record of misdeeds, it can call no helpers to its aid. There is misfor-
tune. The ancient sages believed that if one plants melons, one reaps
melons, and when one sows beans, one gets beans.

How sure are you that this man says what he say he is? hex 43 means separation. he is unavailable for relationship at the time you cast this hex, his line 2 officer Tiger (Wood) is empty.Hex 43 doesnt bode well in relationship reading. Hex 53- takes a long time to develop a relationship.

 

[pooja123]

correction-line six is a yang element sitting on a yin line*.

 

[pooja123]

having said all, just like what the guy said, You will not know what happens in the future. This reading is what it is for current situation. Wait till you hear from him on the 19th or 20th. Be friends with him (hex 53). it is not the end of the world if you cant have a love relationship with him but you can be friends right? why are you in a hurry? Don't push him (hex 43) he is not available for long term. Wait and see.

 

[equinox]

First of all: Well done, that you're not getting involved while he's in another relationship. With this you are doing yourself a big favor and it is only fair to the other woman. It is very understandable that you are afraid of having made a mistake and to lose him, but anyways in the long run it is always auspicious and rewarding not to put yourself in an unworthy position.

Hex 43 shows that indeed decisions are to be made, but the I-ching does not let you know now whether this decision is made for or against you.

Hex 53 speaks of a very slow development, so I wouldn't expect him to enter into a relationship with you within six months.
For a new start he would first have to break up the relationship with the other woman and then he would surely need time to process this relationship. This would take a bit of time.
If he is very important to you, I would offer him a platonic friendship, if you think you can handle it. And then see how it develops. And in the meantime be open for other encounters.

Don't forget that you worked hard on yourself for making yourself ready for a fulfilling relationship. You deserve this. It's interesting, I often have the feeling that when I've worked hard to break through old unhealthy patterns, I wished then life would finally reward me for it. Instead, I am confronted again with a situation that almost makes me despair. I then think that life tests me to see if I have really learnt my lesson.

 

[Trojina]

My questions are about a recent relationship. I met a 37 years old guy this summer, an artist too. As soon as we met, there was a strong connection between us, he told me he has a girlfriend, they have a long distance relationship. One year ago they rented a flat together where he lives but since she is mainly working abroad, they don't see each other so much. She is trying to find a stable job here, but it's a bit hard.He told me that when he met her, it came from a long time alone (dating many girls). Since they were "old", they decided to build a serious relationship, starting from renting the flat, even though they don't spend much time together but they hope snce we met the first time, we started to meet everyday along 2 weeks. She wasn't at his place at that time.I knew he was very dangerous to me, I really liked him, as artist and man.

Yes and you were there and she wasn't. Long distance relationships really don't have a great track record for the very reason you see before your eyes. People will in the end form closer bonds with those in their environment because they are with them. Studies support this - proximity is a major factor in who we end up with. If someone is important to you you are with them. I get that work and other factors mean this isn't always possible though but long term I'd think the longer she's not there the more likely it is he or she will find someone else.

I know myself and I thought that I shouldn't date him, because I might easily fall in love. I do not want unstable relationships, I hope I can find a man who wants a stable relationship with me. Despite that, our meeting was so intense in communication, interests and feelings that I decided to let me go, at least for that time

So you have already fallen in love I think.

Than we spent 3 weeks traveling (during that time he was texting me every day).

I'm confused, who is the 'we' that was travelling for 3 weeks ? Couldn't have been him since he was texting. Er and a guy doesn't text every day unless he's interested in a woman so we can assume he has a bit of a thing for you. What is more his behaviour is a clear signal to you that he has a bit of a thing for you so now he has some responsibility for your feelings. He may kid himself he doesn't but he does.

When we both were back here, we met and I took the decision (I've never done it before in my life) to tell him I wouldn't continue to see him again if he knows that he is sure about his relationship with his girlfriend. He didn't expect my question.

Well done that was very insightful and brave. You see he was giving you signals of interest but holding back and making himself unaccountable so to speak with the reason of this invisible woman of his.

He answered me: I don't know how long my relationship with her can go on. It might finish at any time because there are tensions, mainly regarding the fact she is nervous of not getting the job she applied to here and because it comes from a period of financial crisis.

Oh he's really keeping his options open isn't he. Might finish at any time ? Well so he's pretty much telling you not to give up on him whilst at the same keeping a secure 'get out plan' if he changes his mind. Hmm.

Despite that, he chose her and he wants to see where they can go, he doesn't want to leave her for another. They need to spend more time together and see where they can go.That's why we decided to break up and not seeing each other any more. He would have continued to see me if I didn't speak like that

Yes he would and you would have betrayed yourself as you got more drawn in but had no role as his girlfriend and so no right to ask for anything. You did right to speak like that I think.

(I didn't ask him to leave her, just to tell me if we want to look inside our encounter and see what it might be or not). I know I did the right choice, because I'm looking for a long relationship, not for adventure.At the same time I'm sad because I really felt a strong connection between us. Since I do not want to lose time (I'm thinking and hoping one day he will come back to me), I asked the I Ching:1. Could you give me an insight into the possibility that D. and her break up and he comes back to me?43 unchanging

I think you are right when you say Yiisn't actually saying very much about this. For a start your action was very 43uc. You declared your position, you gave an ultimatum of a kind and the statement is just there - hanging. Which doesn't mean it's wrong but that's just how it is. In answer to your question it seems possible to me that he will split with her, will make a decision. I mean there is a decision in 43 though unchanging it can be that statements of intent just hang in the air.

Since maybe the question was containing two questions, I tried to simplify:2 . Could you please give me an insight into getting into a mutually loving relationship with D. in the next six months?53 unchangingIt looks that I Ching doesn't want really to answer me (or maybe I cannot understand properly). It looks it will take time anyway. I'm patient but if there is no hope, I want to know so that it will be easier to forget him and I won't lose my time with illusions.

Well if it is going to develop it's going to be a pretty slow thing. In 53 all the stages of courtship must be gone through at the right time. Don't rush into anything before you are sure of him and give it time.


BTW I hate to offer false hope in these kinds of things - so I don't want to do that. The current reality is that he has someone else and that is pretty non negotiable in terms of where you stand with him so you were quite right to say you wouldn't see him while he is still with her. It shows you value yourself and will only accept the best.


BTW I guess you were unable to use paragraphs and formatting etc ? This happens to most newbies now so there is a form I will link to where you can describe the issues you are having so Hilary can get them fixed. Be specific about what you cannot do as then apparently it is easier for the tech people to figure it out. If you didn't have problems posting and just like posting huge solid blocks of text forgive my impertinence Will post link https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/forum-issues/





It's important new people can use paragraphs etc because other members struggle faced with big solid chunks of text as it is harder to read which is why I broke it up.


Crossed posts with equinox

 

[Flowing like water]

Hi everybody here!Thanks so much for all your insights which are really helpful...!!!I want to answer one by one, I will do it soon.Regarding my one solid block text, I didn't want it. I just switched from Enhanced Interface - Full WYSIWYG Editing to Standard Editor - Extra formatting controls. Let's see if this works with this post, otherwise I will try by switching from Safari to Chrome browsers.

 

[Flowing like water]

Thanks Pooja

You say:
Your line has the child element, sometimes it represents a job or some time a temporary encounter.

First time we met, it was for a possible collaboration as artists: I'm new in this city (I moved 6 months ago) and looking for contacts to work as video maker and artist (video and performance practice). He is a video maker and works in both commercial and art.
He always worked a lot, but in the last year he lost his main contacts and now he is trying to find new ones. He's quite broken with money right now.

When we met, none of us was looking for a relationship, but our encounter was so powerful that we started to meet every day, discussing about our projects and lives. Love came I think. I was scared, I think he was too. It just happened.

Trojina you are right: I fell in love already. That why I took my decision and that's why it's so difficult to stick to it. But I will.
I won't contact him, even though we also had potential for collaboration. I'm sad to loose him as a man mainly, but as a collaborator too.

If he will contact me again, I will figure out how I can manage. Otherwise I will not. Not sure he will. I was so clear to tell him about we cannot meet as friends because of our strong attraction.

 

[Flowing like water]

Thanks Equinox

I would like to offer him a platonic friendship and wait to see. But even though I might handle with it, I’m not sure that’s what life is asking me.

I totally agree with your thought that life is testing me to see if I learned my lesson. That’s why I was so clear with him, despite I didn’t want to loose him and stop this amazing encounter. But I did, because I knew I had to do it for myself.

I just wonder: if life wants to test me as I think, what should I do? Is it wrong if I wait for seeing if something changes? That means to still have some hope…

 

[Flowing like water]

Thank you Trojina!

We were dating for 10 days almost every day. We slept together twice. Then he had to leave for almost 3 weeks and I was leaving for a week too.

The last day before we both left, we had to meet but his girlfriend came back home for a night. He was sad he couldn’t see me, he said. And he wrote that, once back, I would have been the first one to contact.

During this time, I never text him as the first one. He texted me everyday with a picture or a nice thought. 4 days before his return, he stopped texting me… Then he was back home and text me as he said to see each other. We did. For a quick lunch outside. We spent a nice time, he also was talking to me about his girlfriend (there are tensions about money, because she wants more stability from him and because she is waiting for an answer for a job here but not sure she will get it. It means she cannot move permanently as she would like).

Before leaving after lunch, he told me: let’s meet next Monday I will have more time to spend with you… That’s when I told him about my position. He didn’t expect it. We hadn’t time to discuss it. His position to continue his relationship with his girlfriend and see if they can go further was pretty sure. He chose her, they are renting the flat here together and they have projects they don’t know if they can happen but they want to try. We just said bye bye, it was nice to meet you. A kiss and we both left.

So Yi doesn’t want to answer me. I have no job right now, and need to focus on finding my stability. I still hope I can hear from him and be at least friends or in contact. But if not, I will just try to forget him while being open for another encounter. I hope I can...

 

[Trojina]

We were dating for 10 days almost every day. We slept together twice. Then he had to leave for almost 3 weeks and I was leaving for a week too.

so neither of you have any concept of faithfulness ? He cheated on his girlfriend, lied to her and if he lies to her he will lie to you. You kind of cheated on her too. Why would you do that to her ? I guess because you think he's not really with her ? But he says he is.


That kind of behaviour is hard for me to comprehend. Why would you even consider him as a long term partner, you know he's a liar and will sleep with other women behind his girlfriend's back.

You definitely did the right thing to refuse further relations with him until he makes his mind up who he is with. However he isn't trustworthy and if you can not trust him why would you ever want a relationship with him ?

 

[equinox]

To be fair, she ended it because of this.

 

[Flowing like water]

@trojina:
I don't know why my post if full of these squiggly characters. Once I figured out how to deal with no block text, this problem appear and I don't know why or how to fix it.
You can call me Flo for sure!!

Regarding your previous post: I understand you cannot understand these behaviors. I absolutely try to avoid men when they are in a relationship.
But my meeting with him was so strong that I couldn't avoid it. I slept with him even though I was not comfortable with the idea he has a girlfriend. Anyway, I did. I thought: they have a long distance relationship and it might be a sign that they are in a crisis. I feel like sometimes people don't realize how their relationship is not working properly till they don't meet someone else. Even though it's not the best way to be aware of a need of change, I think sometimes it can happen.

I wanted to see where this encounter could take us, if it could or not. I knew we both left after some days and that was a good time for thinking about what happened.
I realized I didn't feel comfortable to sleep with him while he had a relationship. That's why I talked to him and took my decision.

If he will never break up with her and come back to me, you are right that I'm not sure I can trust him. I might still trust him depending on how I perceive the development of my relationship with him (if ever there will be one) and the way he deals with the possible end of his present relationship. It means: I don't want to judge him for what he did, but why he did it....

 

[Trojina]

That's why I said

You definitely did the right thing to refuse further relations with him

Reading the initial post I had the idea that it wasn't clear to her if he was even seeing her as a romantic possibility - but they already slept together twice - so it looks a bit of a different picture now.

Also, yes the concept of faithfulness does look to be on shaky ground and as the querent specifically said she wanted a long term relationship

I do not want unstable relationships, I hope I can find a man who wants a stable relationship with me

That's not so likely to happen if you sleep with a man who already has a girlfriend and is happy to cheat on her and lie to her. In doing that you already demonstrate faithfulness doesn't matter and faithfulness is pretty much a cornerstone for anything resembling a 'stable' relationship


Unless

of course they may have an open relationship where they don't care who sleeps with who

 

[Flowing like water]

He told me they have a kind of open relationship, in the way they both are aware of the possibility that might happen, but if so, they won't say each other.
The first time I slept with him I was very unsure and he could see it. I wasn't able to talk about but he did. He told me: during this year and a half I'm this long distance relationship with her, I flirted with girls sometimes, but I never slept with no ones of them. I was not interested in doing this.
You are the first one I'm dating since I am with her.

I translated like: I don't know what's going on with her, neither with you... Somehow he was "sincere" in sharing his feelings (unless he was lying to me, but I hope he did not)

 

[Freedda]

... We were dating for 10 days almost every day. We slept together twice. Then he had to leave for almost 3 weeks and I was leaving for a week too.

That would have been a really useful piece of information to share with us at the beginning. While I understand that love -- or the promise of it -- can make us do odd things, I think the bigger question is: are you making gradual progress towards having healthy relationships, with this one being the latest test case?

You've met someone, had a strong attraction, and slept together, knowing that he's already in a relationship (which we also belatedly learn he is, conveniently, calling 'open'). Now you seem to be hoping that a) the difficulties in his relationship are so bad that he leaves her, and b) you've cast yourself as the great beacon of light that will shine on his relationship to show him how she's not his true love, but you are.

Well, maybe that's all true, and you two are destined to be soul mates ... but looking at it from the outside, if I were a betting man ...

And so what if you do get together. What happens when you two face difficulties, or have to spend time apart, or he decides you have an 'open relationship'?

In truth, i am not you or him, and i don't know all the facts and feelings, and factors involved. But it does not appear to be the 'gradual progress' that's needed for the relationship to grow; but that's for you to weigh.

 

[Flowing like water]

I felt so much connected with him and it doesn't happen many times.
I never sleep with men if I don't really fall in love.
I did it because I felt a so strong mutual connection that I hoped this encounter could be more than a transitory one.... I haven't said I thought to be his beacon of light... I'm not so pretentious, I just thought it might be...
Listening to you, it looks my behavior was really wrong. That was not my purpose. I will reflect on this sharing.
Thank you for your time and words.

 

[equinox]

You've met someone, had a strong attraction, and slept together, knowing that he's already in a relationship (which we also belatedly learn he is, conveniently, calling 'open'). Now you seem to be hoping that a) the difficulties in his relationship are so bad that he leaves her, and b) you've cast yourself as the great beacon of light that will shine on his relationship to show him how she's not his true love, but you are.

I find these words unnecessarily cynical and harsh. She has already decided to stay true to herself anyway and now has to deal with the pain of loss, at least for now. No reason to choose words that ridicule her feelings.

 

[Freedda]

Perhaps I was a bit glib, with the 'beacon of light' reference, but you did say ...

... they have a long distance relationship and it might be a sign that they are in a crisis. I feel like sometimes people don't realize how their relationship is not working properly till they [don't] meet someone else ...

... and that just doesn't seem very honest or healthy to me. I may be being a bit harsh. I don't mean, however to cast you in a right/wrong light. Only that there seems to be a lot of warning signs and red flags popping up here -- some of which you did not at first tell us about -- which reads like another warning.

 

[Flowing like water]

Let me tell you about my life, it might clarify why relationships are so challenging for me.
I do no want to be a victim, I felt so, but I worked a lot to overcome all the pain I had.
My mother died when I was 2 years old. My grandparents (father's side) grew me up. They loved me so much.
When my mother died, my father started to gamble and didn't financially take care of us (me and my sister). He were a very good looking man and he also had a lot of women then. His life was about gambling and dating women. I knew everything since I was young.
When I was 12, he got HIV from a young addictive woman and he came to live with us because he needed help. He didn't stop his life style. He took it at the extreme till he died when I was 19. After few years, both my grandparents got sick (despite they still were young). When I was 25 they both die.

I had to deal a lot with pain and losses... I never took medicine. I started alternative therapies (many kinds at different times of my life) and I always searched inside myself.
I'm an artist because only through art I could express myself.

As artist, my life has been financially very unstable, I never had a job, I was supporting myself by myself because my family was poor.
And that is what still I'm doing while trying to improve my situation and find more stability in life.

That's to say: every loss for me is very painful because I had so many.
For me it is very difficult to trust life, that's why I'm meditating a lot. That's the only way to find some peace and kind of "meaning" to all this pain.

Every time I met someone I loved, I never could leave him, even when things didn't work. So that my men always left me.
For me, having said this guy that I won't date him longer was one of my most difficult choices I had to do. But I did. I had pain, and I still have. The only thing I know is that I did the right thing.
What will happen and if I will never have a stable relationship I don't know. I only know I have to trust life, and that's what I daily try to do. Trust that life will give me what I deserve, whatever it is.

 

[Flowing like water]

As last, I apologize if I didn't explicitly said in my first post we slept together.
I'm Italian and my English is not the best one. I though that dating a guy was meaning also sleeping with him.
Next time, I will try to be more accurate.

Despite that, I hope that all your feedbacks around my post still have value. Thanks to everybody!

 

[Trojina]

For me, having said this guy that I won't date him longer was one of my most difficult choices I had to do. But I did. I had pain, and I still have. The only thing I know is that I did the right thing.
What will happen and if I will never have a stable relationship I don't know. I only know I have to trust life, and that's what I daily try to do. Trust that life will give me what I deserve, whatever it is.

Very very difficult yes :bows: If you had gotten more involved it would be even more painful later on and all these kinds of experiences do have costs for us, they take their toll on health and energy and everything. By at this point being sure about not settling for 2nd best you give a clear signal to him and to yourself.

There's no need to apologise it's just the relationship is on a different footing to what I thought at the beginning -

 

[pooja123]

I understand what you are going through. Financial instability and failed relationships. They co exist and it is not a good place to be in. on top of that you are recovering from childhood trauma. Solution, love yourself first. You are still young. You need to build a stable career my dear. Get a day job like a waitress etc . Something that pays you monthly without fail. Then start a website and showcase your artistic endeavors. Sell your art online. Build your self first.

May I suggest Bach flower therapy Star of Bethlehem. It is an oral drop made from flower essences. It helps you to cope with pain of losing, fear of abandonment, panic attacks. Gives you emotional strength. When you are in love with yourself, you will attract the right men. Please try to understand, that some men like to use women for sex even when they have a significant other. I'm glad he was forthcoming with you, stating the fact that he is in a committed relationship and didn't lead you on. Sigh, it is the way of the world is it not nowadays. So confusing to see what is right for us.

I was having an affair with an unavailable man too. Now we stopped being intimate because we know it is wrong as we were falling for each other. We ended up being best of friends now. We chat almost every other day. Our relationship has become more cerebral and the fact we both realize we will be hurting his woman if she came to know about us, we decided on being platonic but we still love each other. It is more satisfying.

Do you need sex to be attached to someone? Is that someone still single? What is really useful to build a lasting romantic relationship that leads to marriage? My reading showed he is not available for a lasting relationship currently. That could change in the future. but is he the one? for you? Fix yourself first. love yourself first. Be good to yourself.

 

[Freedda]

Stepping back from whatever I might think (or not think) about your relationship ... some names/titles for hexagram 53 are: gradual progress, persistence, progress and moving forward. Some key words and ideas are: reliability, consistency, incremental growth, patience, day-by-day progress.

My taken is this is about your 'gradual progress' towards a loving, healthy relationship, regardless if it's with Mr. Open or someone else.

So, you might consider asking: am I making progress here? Am I more clearly seeing my steps and where this path is leading? Will this path lead where I want (or need) , or, if nothing else, offer me some lessons and maybe further direction?

It's not about right or wrong.