Right attitude? 41.6 - 19

[rosada]

After initially siding with those who questioned the benefits and dangers of vaccination I now believe getting the jab is the appropriate thing to do. In fact, I now find myself feeling quite callous about the sufferings of those who refused the vax and became ill. However writing them all off as right wing nuts the world is better off without anyway, doesn't seem like a very enlightened response so I asked the I Ching, "What is a better attitude to have about those who refused to become vaccinated and then came down with Covid?"

41.6 - 19.
In no way decreased, increasing it.
Not a mistake.
Constancy, good fortune.
Harvest in a having a direction to go.
Getting a servant, not a home.

Is the I Ching reminding me that I am not decreased by others not getting vaccinated? That I should go on assured that the vaccination will be like a "servant" allowing me to leave the house rather than stay home and isolate? And what about 19 and the dreaded 8th month?
Anyway, all I can see in this answer is the I Ching saying something like, "Mind your own business and don't worry about what others choose to do." Not a very satisfying answer! Other thoughts anyone?

 

[dfreed]

What is a better attitude to have about those who refused to become vaccinated and then came down with Covid? 41.6 - 19.

41.6: Not diminishing, but enriching him (them).

That you should not diminish them, just as we don't 'diminish' people with AIDS or Measles. And perhaps now that they contracted COVID - in part due to their own actions and attitudes - hopefully they are now a bit wiser (enriched) about - and by - the whole affair - i.e. that COVID is real, and that vaccinations are also real and work.

 

[Trojina]

After initially siding with those who questioned the benefits and dangers of vaccination I now believe getting the jab is the appropriate thing to do. In fact, I now find myself feeling quite callous about the sufferings of those who refused the vax and became ill. However writing them all off as right wing nuts the world is better off without anyway, doesn't seem like a very enlightened response so I asked the I Ching, "What is a better attitude to have about those who refused to become vaccinated and then came down with Covid?"

41.6 - 19.
In no way decreased, increasing it.
Not a mistake.
Constancy, good fortune.
Harvest in a having a direction to go.
Getting a servant, not a home.

Is the I Ching reminding me that I am not decreased by others not getting vaccinated? That I should go on assured that the vaccination will be like a "servant" allowing me to leave the house rather than stay home and isolate? And what about 19 and the dreaded 8th month?
Anyway, all I can see in this answer is the I Ching saying something like, "Mind your own business and don't worry about what others choose to do." Not a very satisfying answer! Other thoughts anyone?

So you are asking about your right attitude to people who refused the vaccine

'In no way decreased, increasing it.
Not a mistake.
Constancy, good fortune.
Harvest in having a direction to go.
Gaining a servant, not a dwelling.'

I see this as there isn't really such a great divide between the vaccinated and unvaccinated. Being vaccinated is a temporary condition it's not a place to live, it is a servant in fact. I'd see this answer as you can reduce passion around the idea because the only difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated is that the vaccinated have a temporary servant, they do not have permanent immunity, it's not a permanent state. Moreover we don't even have immunity just a reduced likelihood of Covid being so severe we die.

I've seen a number of vaccinated people be pretty ill with Covid now.


And remember there's a big difference between people who aren't vaccinated and the people who go about making out it's all a big hoax. I know a few people who haven't been vaccinated but still take Covid seriously. I don't think not being vaccinated automatically makes someone a right wing nut. For example I have a friend who already had Covid, recovered but was needing to stay well to help with the new grandchild. She was called to get vaxxed just on the day the baby was coming and she didn't want to risk being in bed for a day or 2. Now she's not sure she wants it though her family want her to. She's left wing.

I know others who haven't been vaccinated just because they think it unnecessary and they think they are so supremely healthy/super spiritual they won't get it.... this might tie in with all the 5D 'I'm on another dimension' kind of thinking

This is a fairly low key answer, it just feels like 'relax as there isn't truly a massive difference here between you and them. You're vaccinated now but will you still have antibodies in a year ?' The vaccination is the servant it's not a dwelling place.


It's important to distinguish between people not wanting the vaccine, and it is afterall a choice, and people who go around harassing medical staff, protesting about lockdowns and making up conspiracy theories about Covid. These last group are the whacko/new age/5D/right wing mish mash I think David was writing about in Open Space. For me those are the ones who can make me angry but the ones who won't vaccinate aren't necessarily those people and I don't wish them ill although they can make life hard in terms of visiting and socialising. They have to respect that others aren't going to want to get too close because we could infect them and vice versa.


Hmm just getting off the phone to 90 year old mum she didn't want her unvaccinated friends to come to her home so they met out but she fears one of them may have been offended by that. I think those are the sorts of tensions that arise between the vaxxed and unvaxxed.

 

[rosada]

Ah, I like these interpretations.
And yeah, I'm talking about the anger I feel towards the whackos, not those who for various medical reasons are not able to vaccinate. But having said that, what about those who aren't yelling and screaming but who simply refuse because they believe vaccinations should be a matter of free choice - which granted, ideally they should be? I mean, the hospitals here in the U.S. are swamped to the point where those who need surgeries for other reasons are not able to get the medical care they need because all the beds are filled with people who said, "It's a free country and I choose not to be vaccinated." Shouldn't those who chose to exercise their free will to not be vaxed now bare some responsibility for their choice? But maybe the I Ching is advocating compassion for all.
Anyway, I like dfreed's idea that "In no way decreased" can mean not diminishing the anti-vaxers. Maybe "Increasing" even means giving them some recognition as "freedom fighters" who made a stand against governmental over reach or at least contributed by proving how necessary vaccinations are!
I also like Trojina's interpretation that the "servant" could be the vaccination that helps but may eventually quit working.
Now wondering about "Constancy, good fortune." and "Harvest in having a direction to go." Perhaps these lines encouraging that as the medical community continues to look in the direction of finding cures (rather than for those to blame) there will be a successful "Harvest"?
Anyway, okay, I Ching, I shall work on developing compassion. Certainly being angry doesn't help!

 

[Trojina]

But having said that, what about those who aren't yelling and screaming but who simply refuse because they believe vaccinations should be a matter of free choice - which granted, ideally they should be? I mean, the hospitals here in the U.S. are swamped to the point where those who need surgeries for other reasons are not able to get the medical care they need because all the beds are filled with people who said, "It's a free country and I choose not to be vaccinated." Shouldn't those who chose to exercise their free will to not be vaxed now bare some responsibility for their choice?

In your shoes I'd be annoyed at that. In the UK we didn't have that many people shouting 'it's a free country, I choose not to be vaccinated', nor much protest in lockdown. I think we had much more of a sense of pulling together as maybe other European countries did possibly because of various historical factors involving attack, what you have to do when under attack as a nation and if you don't do what you are told to do, put your blackout blinds up for example, you get everyone bombed. The US doesn't have that experience, is so disparate and in many ways so separate from the rest of the world which must account for whole populations of Covid fantasists.

I digress/waffle but what I mean is your experience is different to mine so I can see how you could get annoyed. They should bear some responsibility for their choice but in reality if you were a Dr or a nurse could you turn someone away from the hospital because they didn't vaccinate ? It would be hard wouldn't it ?

41.6 - 19.
In no way decreased, increasing it.
Not a mistake.
Constancy, good fortune.
Harvest in a having a direction to go.
Getting a servant, not a home.

I wonder with this as well you may be being informed that in the long run the current situation in the hospitals might be a catalyst for change in your health system.


41 has always been the hexagram of welfare, of donation, of reducing resources in order to give elsewhere. What if it's saying 'what you see isn't a decrease, this is going to lead to better health services'. Hmm or maybe I'm being over optimistic.

 

[dfreed]

I'm talking about the anger I feel towards the whackos,

The trigram movement of 41.6 is from Mountain: being stopped, closed off; to Earth: caring, compassion, making things real, being 'down-to-earth'.

So to initially feel anger towards '5D whackos' may not be an inappropriate response - but it's one that may stop us from feeling/seeing differently. We then need to find our own way from diminishment to enrichment - perhaps from anger and being stuck to a more Earth-like response: real care, compassion, and ....

And for some reason, this is what came to mind for me:

Do not think me gentle
because I speak in praise
of gentleness, or elegant
because I honor the grace
that keeps this world. I am
a man crude as any,
gross of speech, intolerant,
stubborn, angry, full
of fits and furies. That I
may have spoken well
at times, is not natural.
A wonder is what it is.

Wendel Barry
January 3, 2003

 

[rosada]

"Catalyst for change in the health care system." Could be. I think of the bumper sticker, "Death is just nature's way of telling you to slow down."
But seriously, if there is some greater good to be found in all this, that would certainly qualify!

 

[becalm]

41.6 Be of service. Pass no judgement, just send Love.

 

[my_key]

I remembered reading through this thread a scene that has stuck with me from when I watched the MASH series. Colonel Potter was, I think, acting as an Agony Aunt to Klinger, who was having difficulties in deciding about a relationship. I had to look it up but here's the words:

Sergeant Maxwell Q. Klinger:
I thought when the war was over it'd be the happiest day of my life. But everything's all messed up. Now I'm in love, and I got nothing but trouble.

Col. Potter:
Listen, when you're in love, you're always in trouble. There's only two things you can do about it - either stop loving them, or love them a whole lot more.

Sergeant Maxwell Q. Klinger:
But if you love them a whole lot more, won't that just get you a lot more trouble?

Col. Potter:
Yep - then you love them even more.

Sergeant Maxwell Q. Klinger:
Boy, that sounds tough.

Col. Potter:
It's murder.

 

[rosada]

Beautiful, My_Key.

Meanwhile I have been thinking about these hexagrams some more. I'm wondering if we're trying to twist "In no way decreased, increasing it. Not a mistake. Constancy, good fortune" into meaning something we think it ought to mean and perhaps missing the true meaning, or at least a plausible alternative meaning? And let me emphasize here that personally I am not advocating anger towards those who refuse the vax and become ill. I bring this up simply as an I Ching interpretation puzzle.

Anyway, It seems unthinkable that the I Ching would advise being mad at someone who is ill so are we imposing an interpretation on the lines that really isn't there? We suggest "In no way decreased, increasing it, etc." means "Don't demean the ill, love them more," but how do we know the line doesn't mean, "Don't decrease your anger, increase it. That's not a mistake. Continue to be angry, good fortune." And maybe "Harvest in having a direction to go" is a reminder to stay focused on the goal, ie. good health for the entire community. "Gaining a servant, not a home" could be a reference to how anger and stirred up emotions can be helpful though one should not dwell in them. Maybe anger is a way of moving our energies up from the emotional chakra and up to the heart chakra?

Actually this way of interpreting the lines is not a contradiction of the idea that one should have compassion, I'm just trying to see if we're missing a plausible alternative interpretation. Maybe the I Ching is pointing us to consider how it is possible to use anger to keep oneself motivated. Maybe anger causes one to care and thus give a situation more consideration and by giving the situation more consideration then one comes to recognize possible solutions?
Like, "I am so angry these idiots didn't get vaxed ->
As I read about them I get that they were lied to by scumbag politicians ->
I no longer am angry at them, I have compassion for them as they trusted those who's job it was to give them honest information ->
The anger has caused me to move beyond blaming victims."

 

[Trojina]

Maybe the I Ching is pointing us to consider how it is possible to use anger to keep oneself motivated.

Hang on though it's your question your answer for you. There is no 'us' here, you can't take your reading and apply it to everyone since everyone doesn't feel as you do about this. As soon as you start making this some kind of universal lesson for mankind you've gone off the point. You are angry with the unvaxxed but not everyone is, I'm not angry with the unvaxxed. If I thought the hospitals here were so full of the unvaxxed no one else could get treatment I might be more angry but I've not heard that specifically.

 

[rosada]

Oh, sorry! I guess I lapsed over into thinking it was an "us" question, like it was a broad ethical question like "What is the appropriate human response?" but as pointed out, I specifically worded my question as asking for clarification about my personal response which come to think of it, might be appropriate for me and my process (don't get mad, get motivated) but not for an other who is already doing what they need to do.

I see we're crossing posts.

 

[redoleander]

41.6 > 19

I see two possibilities actually!

1) It’s about leaving things as they are and trusting they will find their own way to get worked out.

2) Perhaps leaving things as they are increases COVID (lol). Meaning that when people can do whatever they want, there’s more illness. That’s what we’re seeing.

 

[rosada]

What would be a better attitude?

41.6
[A better attitude would be to understand that your benefit is]
In no way decreased
[by those who become ill - in fact they are]
increasing it.
[So recognize refusing to vax is]
Not a mistake.
[If you maintain this attitude of looking to the higher purpose with]
Constancy,
[you will see]
good fortune.

Harvest in having a direction to go (Where attention goes, energy flows).
Gaining a servant (Maybe the anti-vaxers actually served by keeping attention on getting vaccinated.)
but not a home. (I can have compassion for them but I wouldn't want to live like that!)

 

[my_key]

Maybe anger is a way of moving our energies up from the emotional chakra and up to the heart chakra?

Actually this way of interpreting the lines is not a contradiction of the idea that one should have compassion, I'm just trying to see if we're missing a plausible alternative interpretation. Maybe the I Ching is pointing us to consider how it is possible to use anger to keep oneself motivated. Maybe anger causes one to care and thus give a situation more consideration and by giving the situation more consideration then one comes to recognize possible solutions?
Like, "I am so angry these idiots didn't get vaxed ->
As I read about them I get that they were lied to by scumbag politicians ->
I no longer am angry at them, I have compassion for them as they trusted those who's job it was to give them honest information ->
The anger has caused me to move beyond blaming victims."

The guidance for the noble one in 41 is to 'curb your wrath and restrain your desires' so to my way of thinking it is indeed more a case of how you choose to respond rather than allowing your knee-jerk emotional reactions to rule your behaviours.

Now that you have found compassion for the idiots who didn't get vaxxed, perhaps your next challenge is to love a little bit more the 'scumbag politicians'. Now that really is going to be like murder !!!!

 

[dfreed]

41.6
[A better attitude (maybe) those who become ill - in fact they are] increasing it.

I'm not so sure about this, since it seems to imply that peoples' actions - regardless of how stupid or self-centered - will benefit you.

So maybe, insteasd .... 41: "What to use? Two tureens can be used (for the plea)." I'd suggest that a good, two-fold attitude is one, it allows you to maintain a positive attitude (41's lower trigram Lake); and two, that it allows you to be in the world, unburdened (a journey with a servant 'unburdened' by a family), which in turn allows you to maintain your compassion, your human-ness (19's upper trigram Earth), instead of feeling stuck (41's unbalanced, upper trigram Mountain).

It's having an attitude where you're not diminished by what others do (or don't do); and conversely, that it's your own attitude that enriches you, not what others do (or don't do).

Hex. 19's upper trigram Earth is also about being real and down-to-earth. So perhaps this is the third half of your approach: to be practical and down-to-earth in your actions, and not just your attitude! Ex. in my state the guideline is to wear masks indoors when we can. I was in a restaurant the other day, and while most of us were wearing mask in the bathrooms or when going to the buffet table, a few people did not. So besides whatever attitude(s) of anger or compassion (very little at that point) I had, I also decided that I'd go back to avoiding restaurants until I felt it was safe - or safer - to do so.

About Hex. 19, I read 'the same character can mean “ceremonial wailing,” which was its original meaning ...' It suggests to me that your 'right attitude' has to allow for grieving, to feel sadness over what's happening in our world - I know I have to let myself feel this sometimes, in order to feel sane, and not just be diminished by either what others are doing - or perhaps more directly - that I'm not diminished by my own anger and fear.

Best, D

 

[Anavim]

For me it doesn't sound like you should leave things "as they are". Increasing it, not decreasing. Harvest. Direction to go. It all points to movement, a call to action. Since you began your post in the tone of "well at first I was skeptical and now I am angry WITH THEM" I can't help but think that perhaps you are angry with yourself that you didn't react on time and now you perhaps want to compensate? Just a thought, if it's not so, please don't get offended. Is this question really about others? How did you came to realisation that getting the shot is good for you? You weighed on your decision and got to a conclusion.
So, perhaps it's not all set and done with getting one or two jabs, but it's fortunate to avoid danger for some time, isn't it? Try with a moderate temper and not with fury, since the trigrams are not fiery. So your path is correct and you should INCREASE it. I also spoke with someone who sent me a ridiculous video against the jab and in response I sent him three articles that are just laying down stats and facts. In the end I told him to think it through with a cold head but everytime he remembers the advice he will remember those cold data that address his concerns. So, no anger, no fury, act composed, but persistently. If you can "convert" someone and save them from peril, do so. Perhaps they will hate you if they get infected nevertheless but you still managed to get them out of the peril for a while and that is correct. Harvest.