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Scary emotional/visceral reaction

jazzcat

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Hello all. This is a question for people anyone here, just starting, or with years under their belt... It doesn't have to do with any hexagram in particular, which is why I didn't post this in "shared readings".

The other night, I asked a question, cast the coins, and got a hexagram. After reading in the version that I have and cross referencing it with LiSe's and some others, I started to think about the possible meaning. After 5-10 minutes of meditation/thought on the meaning of hexagram, I had a very negative experience. I can compare it to a panic attack, since I've suffered from those already. The possible meanings and images I had of what's inside me sent me into a terrible state and I could hardly sleep that night. I was wondering if anyone else has ever had very powerful reactions (either positive or negative) of this type.

I'm not for an instant looking at this in a simple cause--> effect way, I understand that these things are way deeper than that. I attribute a lot of what I felt to the recent bout of insomnia I was struggling with and some rather emotional goings on in my life at the moment. The panic attack may very well have happened anyway... but I'm wondering if the introspection brought on by my consultation triggered these feelings.

Anyone care to share?

-Jazzy

P.S. For the record, and before you ask: I don't remember the hexagram I got as an answer.
 

pocossin

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Congratulations. My understanding is that a person must be fundamentally healthy in order to have a panic attack. My opinion is that dwelling on a hexagram would not cause a panic attack, but dwelling on the situation that a casting could resolve might.
 

Trojina

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I do recall in my past finding consultation increased panicky feelings and that it was a healthy act for me at such time to put all that away and do some very grounding things.

I'm not saying consultation caused the panic...but getting enmeshed in all kinds of future projections can be not terribly good for us if we have sort of reached that tipping point between ordinary anxiety level and sky high anxiety levels.

I don't think the panic was caused by the hexagram or the cast but I think it might be an idea to give consulting a short break in favour of keeping it quite simple and doing what you can 'on the ground' so to speak. I think consulting can take us a little out of ourselves, out of our ordinary awareness. This is generally a good thing for increased perspective but if we are headed to panicky feelings we already feel ungrounded and anything that increases that sense of ungroundedness may be detrimental.


For panicky feelings I recommend trying to keep things simple, doing one thing at a time, deal with one problem at a time, stay focused on practical ways to improve things...which all amounts to getting back to living in your body not your head for a while. I think grounding activities always reduce panicky feelings...like physical or practical work especially outdoors....
 
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sooo

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Some readings during certain times, especially when revved up emotionally, can have an over-stimulating effect. Yi images are very large and a lot can be read into them, sometimes more than what was intended: exaggerated, magnified, amplified. They can cause undue self-incrimination or self-doubt, particularly for someone who is sensitive and self-reflective, which can cause a sense of being out of control, or even out of body, beside ones self.

Take two hexagram 41's and call me in the morning. No, but seriously, reducing the intensity of the importance of the reading, shrinking it down to a size which fits more comfortably is a good idea. Stepping away from it entirely for awhile, baking a pie, walking the dog, deep breaths, getting your feet solidly on the ground, anything of this sort are ways to return to yourself. There's no one way or answer, but these are some ways that can work. Or, if you recognize something in the reading which needs some sort of correcting on your part: changing a position, opening up, apologizing; anything which reduces the pressure and returns you to your innate state of peace and grounding, can help. Sometimes just talking to a friend who is a good listener can help.

And, yes, I've been there.
 

jazzcat

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Wise advice all... and thank you, it's nice to hear that I'm not the only one. Before I even read Trojan's post, I had decided to step away from consultations for a bit. Yes ... time to ground myself - by nature I live in my head quite a bit, and it's probably time to come down from there a bit.
 

arabella

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Here are a few really simple ideas about re-grounding. One is how you breathe and I find, as do many people, that when I'm feeling tense and I get very focused on something I breathe in a shallow way from my chest. If you do singers' breathing -- making sure your stomach expands more than your chest when you breathe, and focusing on making breathing rhythmic and slow, you will bring down anxiety levels. Also, of course, exercise is wonderful for reducing anxiety. And the other thing is, drink water. When you are overwrought you can tend to do a couple things. One is eat badly and not drink enough water. And, meanwhile, if you are breathing wrong, you not only hyperventilate, but you also you can find yourself feeling very dry mouthed -- which in itself triggers anxiety or is an anxiety symptom. So put away the candy, eat some fruit or salad and drink more water or water mixed with juice. When I'm REALLY hyper, I'll mix warm water and a little juice to spice up the taste. It may sound crazy, but these things dispell anxiety and thinking about making these adjustments to your physical self [including exercise and proper breathing technique] can bring you back to earth with a BANG. XO Arabella
 

hilary

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As well as the fun of panicking over all the possibilities contained in the reading, has anyone had a sensation of everything opening up, the ground becoming oddly translucent and not-quite-real, just in the moment of realising this thing is talking to me? Spinning theories about synchronicity is all nice and safe, but the moment of seeing that it works... not much of a boundary between joy and terror there, I think.
 

Trojina

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Knowing that its answering feels safe in a big all enveloping way....afterall it means you actually aren't alone in your mind....however grim the answer at least theres the connection

I think panic comes when theres more the sense of not being answered...or not really taking in the answer. I can't say I've ever really felt the truth of an answer whilst in a state of panic...and I've never felt terror on understanding deep inside that I am being answered.

However I'm not saying feeling you aren't answered causes feelings of panic....I just think in certain states of panic often not much can 'get through' leading to more casts.....leadign sometimes toworse scenario full blown panic attack which isn't the same thing at all as the terror of wonderment
 

arabella

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As well as the fun of panicking over all the possibilities contained in the reading, has anyone had a sensation of everything opening up, the ground becoming oddly translucent and not-quite-real, just in the moment of realising this thing is talking to me? Spinning theories about synchronicity is all nice and safe, but the moment of seeing that it works... not much of a boundary between joy and terror there, I think.
Yes, equal parts of thrilling, unbelievable and completely motivating. Like someone has just walked through the wall and spoken to you and although you've seen with your own eyes, you're afraid to believe it, because a permeable reality means that everything IS connected -- no real barriers. And I say to myself -- so what else do I believe in -- but can't really imagine? And the chills run up my back!
 

Tohpol

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As well as the fun of panicking over all the possibilities contained in the reading, has anyone had a sensation of everything opening up, the ground becoming oddly translucent and not-quite-real, just in the moment of realising this thing is talking to me? Spinning theories about synchronicity is all nice and safe, but the moment of seeing that it works... not much of a boundary between joy and terror there, I think.


In other words, the definition of a genuine spiritual (or shamanic) path imo. Because then you have the responsibility to act on truth or deny it.

Again...
 

cyberlight369

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Quite Unusual Experiences

As well as the fun of panicking over all the possibilities contained in the reading, has anyone had a sensation of everything opening up, the ground becoming oddly translucent and not-quite-real, just in the moment of realising this thing is talking to me? Spinning theories about synchronicity is all nice and safe, but the moment of seeing that it works... not much of a boundary between joy and terror there, I think.

Yes, I have had some of those experiences. But, I think, Hilary, that you will understand my reply better if I start with:

BACKGROUND in the briefest of terms.
I came to study theYjing as a result of studying the Taoist doctrine of The Great Triad, Heaven Man Earth. I learned that the trigram was a symbol of the triad: the first line representing Heaven, the middle line Man and the bottom line Earth. A similar story is told in Genesis, that is, God scraped together some Earth and blew his breath into, thus endowing the first man with the same three features as those which the trigram symbolizes. A spiritual symbol is devised for the transmission of some doctrinal knowledge. We learn things through our senses so it is easier for a Master to draw three lines on paper than to spend an hour or two explaining things to his disciple. If a picture is worth 1000 words and it is on the sensible level how much easier is it to draw a few lines to explain things on the supra-sensible level.

They also had a Chinese ideograph consisting of a very truncated trigram with a slanted vertical line intersecting all three of the horizontal lines, thus connecting them. It was called the "King-pontiff" or "Mediator". At first I thought it was merely a social phenomenon requiring the Emperor to perform certain rites and rituals, thus ensuring that the blessings of Heaven would supposedly flow to his kingdom.. Then I heard Stephen Karcher on one of your webinars describing Whilehm's encounter with the Rainmaker. Then I thought: "This Mediator stuff is real!"

After I finished the introduction to the Yjing and it was time for me to make my first independent reading, I was reluctant to do it. I am a spiritual seeker and I came here for help. Consequently, I began to wonder how much help the Yjing would be. So I pondered how much in conformity with the doctrine of the Great Triad it was. Eventually, I began to feel reverence, awe and caution. First of all, if it is true, that a human being is composed of both terrestrial factors and celestial factors, then I was in trouble. I was familiar with my terrestrial factors but where were my celestial ones?. Do I have to die first before I become aware of them? And there were other issues.So I began ruminating, and pondering the whole complex of it. After three weeks of such activities, I knew what to do. I was ready to cast my first hexagram.

THE READING in the briefest of terms
First I went to my computer because I was going to use your bowl of marbles. I composed myself and asked:

"Oracle, what must I know about you?" Then I cast the hexagram. I have forgotten which one it was because what happens next was was so rapid and unexpected and so world-eclipsing that I had no chance to do anything. First, to my left and downward below where the floor would have been if it had been there, which it was not. [The ground becoming oddly translucent and not-quite-real] For I did not see the floor or the chair nor my feet. All I saw was a swirling group of gray clouds in the form of a stationary tornado. Down at the bottom it was all jet black and I heard my own voice booming forth from the tornado and it said: "The Oracle is my friend." [Not quite real] So I yelled:

"I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS!!" Then I felt a pang of joy run through me and I gave forth with a brief laughter. After a little time I feel that joy shiver through me again. And I laughed again enjoying the brief period of happiness.

I left the computer, which must have been there but I didn't see it, found my way to the bedroom and lay down. All I wanted to do was to enjoy the experience. I felt no emotions, no sensations, and not one single thought. all I remember was the quietness, this stillness that was an unruffled stillness and I lay in repose in that inward quiet. Twice I tried to compose a thought: "I must write this down." The gray clouds parted and revealed behind them a rectangular space of pure white and a few words tumbled out of the grayness on to the whiteness: "I must write…" But those words were like gnats against the setting sun. They spoiled the beauty and the gray clouds closed down again. Then I heard the door of the house open and close and I knew my wife was returning from the market. It is our habit to collaborate with the evening meal So I arose and, alas, the beauty and the stillness closed down. The Oracle was gone.

CONCLUSIONS in the briefest of terms.
1. Did the Oracle answer me? When the floor disappears beneath my feet and I find myself looking down the center of a tornado, I would say emphatically "Yes".
2. What did he say? Frankly, I don't know. The only words I heard were those of my own voice yelling: "I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS!!" Everything else was in the language of the Oracle. For example, what is the significance of a tornado? Power? Strength? Danger? What is the significance of a stable tornado? And it's circular jet black bottom? In fact, there are several other things to consider the gray clouds everywhere, the parting of the gray clouds revealing the whiteness behind, the inability to produce a thought, but above all, the peace, the quietness, the utter stillness.

But this post is long enough already. I shall stop here and try to fathom the meaning of the Oracle. Meanwhile, members of the community, both junior and senior, can help me by contributing their comments.
 

arabella

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Cyber, I'm a firm believer that people will see what they are looking at. You can look inside, in front of your face, mid-range, or far into the distance. If you've mastered looking into your third eye, you can see energy leaving and arriving, for instance, to the exclusion of anything else. If you look at the distance, you may not see the person standing in front of your face, and vice versa. If you are looking for a miracle, you're likely to see one. A lot of the ability to see relies upon openness and sincerity and the willingness to let something occur that you don't control. You saw the phenomenon you were looking for. That's in keeping with what I've experienced as well; not just with the Yi, but in life.:hug:
 

cyberlight369

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Seeing

Arabella, I must congratulate you on your perceptive and lucid mind. Two of your observations touched me deeply. First, "If you have mastered your third eye…" Believe me, Arabella, if I had mastered my third eye I would be explaining all my symbols and images instead of asking for help.

Secondly, "You saw the phenomenon you were looking to see." In a way, that is quite true even though what I was looking for was only about 5% of the whole experience. For decades I have been looking for that pure white light that would not accept thoughts. At lease I have learned one thing from the whole experience: that light needs neither thoughts or images, they are only obscuration.

Thank you for your comments.:hug:
 

arabella

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Arabella, I must congratulate you on your perceptive and lucid mind. Two of your observations touched me deeply. First, "If you have mastered your third eye…" Believe me, Arabella, if I had mastered my third eye I would be explaining all my symbols and images instead of asking for help.

Secondly, "You saw the phenomenon you were looking to see." In a way, that is quite true even though what I was looking for was only about 5% of the whole experience. For decades I have been looking for that pure white light that would not accept thoughts. At lease I have learned one thing from the whole experience: that light needs neither thoughts or images, they are only obscuration.

Thank you for your comments.:hug:
Yes, that was actually a stupid thing for me to say. "Mastered" is hardly the word. What I mean is whether you have access to your third eye at all -- which is quite different. I forget when or how I started looking at the third eye, seems like it was always there. But I see all kinds of things there that may be helpful or just fascinating to watch.

The second idea of seeing what you are attempting to look at [in contingent dimensions] is also fascinating -- since I'm not sure what dictates one result or another --but those moments when the veils fall away and we are face to face with another dimension are unforgettable. Maybe they are so rare because we put many doubts between us and the possibility of "seeing" into the universe. I only know that, when this happens, it's with you forever and changes the way you "see" everything else. :hug:
 
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cyberlight369

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Perspective

Quite so. I agree with you with practically every word, except "stupid". I think we are being a bit hard on ourselves. But even "stupid" is a bit questionable. It all depends up on which perspective we are speaking from, that of the Third Eye or – to borrow a phrase from you – the realm of contingent dimensions. I want to go deeper into this issue but I think we have a matter a bit more pressing at the moment.

First, did you get the e-mail I sent you through Clarity?

Secondly, no one is joining our conversation, so I think we need to move to a different thread or even forum. I will look into that and get back to you ASAP.
:hug:
 

hilary

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No, no need to move anywhere! Conversations naturally migrate from their starting points; threads don't have to. (Also, just because we're not chiming in doesn't mean we're not reading appreciatively :) .)
 

arabella

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Quite so. I agree with you with practically every word, except "stupid". I think we are being a bit hard on ourselves. But even "stupid" is a bit questionable. It all depends up on which perspective we are speaking from, that of the Third Eye or – to borrow a phrase from you – the realm of contingent dimensions. I want to go deeper into this issue but I think we have a matter a bit more pressing at the moment.

First, did you get the e-mail I sent you through Clarity?

Secondly, no one is joining our conversation, so I think we need to move to a different thread or even forum. I will look into that and get back to you ASAP.
:hug:
CL -- I did receive your email -- finally found it in an old email account, but oddly not here on private messages where I would usually expect. Anyway, I'll answer as soon as possible in a private message here. :)
 

arabella

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Cyber, there is a PM waiting for you explaining my view on your question.
 

cyberlight369

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Second-Leading

FORWARD
Well, I did it again. I asked the same question as before in a different form: "What must I know about the Yijng, or, the Oracle?" This time I used my new MONSTER SIZED BOOK, 655 pages, "The Laws of Change, I Ching and the Philosophy of Life", by Jack M Balkin.

ORIGINAL HEXAGRAM 12
Pi: Standstill Misfortune Hindrance: Heaven above; Earth below.
Balkin writes: "… The two great powers of heaven and earth are moving away from each other. They do not cooperate and stagnation is the result." This hexagram symbolizes the arrival of the petty and the departure of the great.

This is a very depressing reading. The two great powers of Heaven and Earth moving apart! Why! I know for a long time, I haven't been feeling too well. Physiologically speaking, I am healthy but I seem to have a lack of zest and verve and energy.

Balkin writes: "The text says that you must preserve your inner virtue in order to escape the difficulties and hardships in your life. Do not betray your values, because they are the means by which you will ultimately prevail. Withdraw from the situation and hold on tight to what is most important. Your ability to persevere now will give you great strength in the future."

RELATING HEXAGRAM 20: Guan; Viewing
The image of the hexagram resembles an observation tower used in ancient China. A person could from a great distance from such a tower. It is a metaphor for contemplation: "Rather it means taking the time to understand the workings of the universe, one's own nature, and one's place in the world of continuity and change. Contemplation is more than accumulation of bits of knowledge, more than assimilation and memorization of true factual propositions. It is a profoundly spiritual practice."

Balkin then extends the metaphor, comparing each line in the hexagram to successively higher landings on the platform. For example line 1 of the hexagram:

Initial Six
A childlike view.
For the inferior person, no blame.
For a superior person, humiliation.

And so on until he reaches lines 5 and 6 of the hexagram:

Nine In the Fifth Place (Ruling line)
Viewing my life.
The superior Person is without blame.

Nine at the Top (Ruling Line)
Viewing his life.
The superior person is without blame.

The difference is between a "my life" person and "his life" person is this: the "my life" person is a leader or someone in an influential position who has responsibilities and obligations to others. If he produces positive results for his group, he is without blame. If, like some present day politicians, he becomes egocentric, ego centered, and attached to the "me, myself and I" syndrome, then he may end up in an "Arabian Spring" revolution. I remember reading about one Chinese Emperor who, while being chased out the back door by a rebellious army, said: "Heaven is against me because I have no virtue."

On the other hand, the "his life" person means to engage in "ego-less contemplation" trying to divorce himself from his personal gratifications and attain a state of "freedom from the self." In that state, he can, so to speak, "step outside himself" into Objectivity. Then he can look at "his life" dispassionately and objectively and be just as severe with "his life" as he could with a stranger. This is the state of being a Sage. What is it like to experience "freedom from the self"? From all that I can gather, it is a pearl beyond price.

There are some consolations. The text asserts that I have inner virtue, values, perseverance. And an interest in spiritual life. But I emphatically deny that those qualities originated within me. They are only a reflection of Pure Virtue.

Is this really my future, according to the Oracle?
1. You are in a crisis. Tighten your belt, hoard your resources and hunker down. Prepare for troubles and hardships.
2. Do not fritter away this time. Use it wisely. Think. Ponder. Meditate. Contemplate.

However, I added 3 myself:
3. Heaven is your father and Earth is your mother. You are a son of Heaven and Earth. Your Celestial influences are equal to your Earthly influences. Claim your inheritance.
 

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