...life can be translucent

Menu

Science versus primitive man

surnevs

visitor
Joined
Apr 25, 2021
Messages
655
Reaction score
324
The surface tension of water don't allow the weight of a human to walk on it Science says.
The primitive man argues that Jesus the Christ walked on Water.
Jesus the Christ never himself proclaimed anywhere that he were walking on water.
Primitive man trust in sayings - Science trust in facts.
Facts depends on reality on hands.
Reality on hands depends on Time.
At the time of Jesus the Christ facts were depending on beliefs.
Beliefs were depending on experience.
Experience were depending on reality.
And reality were another reality then that it is now.
Science will prove that our reality isn't real :

- When the primitive man argues that the surface tension of Water don't allow the weight of a human to walk on it.
 

Gmulii

visitor
Joined
Oct 22, 2018
Messages
229
Reaction score
68
The surface tension of water don't allow the weight of a human to walk on it Science says.
The primitive man argues that Jesus the Christ walked on Water.
Jesus the Christ never himself proclaimed anywhere that he were walking on water.
Primitive man trust in sayings - Science trust in facts.
Facts depends on reality on hands.
Reality on hands depends on Time.
At the time of Jesus the Christ facts were depending on beliefs.
Beliefs were depending on experience.
Experience were depending on reality.
And reality were another reality then that it is now.
Science will prove that our reality isn't real :

- When the primitive man argues that the surface tension of Water don't allow the weight of a human to walk on it.

Science can't say stuff. People that have studied past events can do and they often does it.

Can a man walk on water...
I have seen Qi Gong practitioners standing on paper in the air, without the paper tearing apart... I'm sure some scientists will say that is impossible, as they haven't seen it done before and their current understanding of how weight works will suggest its unlikely for it to work. That only means that with our current understanding most western scientists can't explain it. Doesn't mean its a "fact", "fact" it can become only when western scientists are fully aware of everything that is happening in existence and have perfect explanation for it. Even then something new may emerge.

Currently, we see less then 1% of the eletromagnetic spectrum... The idea we are ready to impose "facts" on existance may be a little premature.

So lets remember the Jesus Christ Lizard and be happy his species didn't try to convince it that what it does is impossible, as if they did maybe he wouldn't be able to do what it does:

 

dfreed

Inactive
Joined
Feb 6, 2021
Messages
1,045
Reaction score
409
Science versus primitive man

One idea that comes to mind for me is how we are challenging just how much 'science' early humans knew or used - and thereby challenging our perception of them as 'primitive'.

They have found signs / marks in 14,000-20,000 year-old caves which some feel show that 'primitive' humans (man) may have known more about astronomy and the movement and cycles of the stars and moon than we first thought.

There are the stone circles and other built structures from ancient England (and found in other places), which we believe kept track of time or celestial, or seasonal cycles. And some of these were constructed by people who had no system of writing, as far as we know.

And there are of course the achievments of some 'primative' cultures: vast built works (thought some of these were from later, less primative peoples) and also large animal shapes, paths, markings and geoglyphs (the Great Serpent Mount) found in the landscape.

I just makes me wonder ....
 

surnevs

visitor
Joined
Apr 25, 2021
Messages
655
Reaction score
324
Me too.
They say that Jesus walked on water and that he did many other miraculous things.
I have seen and read that in his time there were many who did healing/magic/soothsayings - but I think those attributes were propaganda like: Our prophet (Jesus) did that (miracles) much better...
I could maybe have used a better word than primitive (?)
In those early days (from where the cave-paintings etc. originated) we were much closer to Nature, I mean untouched Nature and Reality were another than it is today. Our take/look at the reality back then were not more primitive than it is today.
But all in all my posting were meant as a general statement of Science versus the beliefs of "primitive man".
There's no deeper philosophy in it.
 

dfreed

Inactive
Joined
Feb 6, 2021
Messages
1,045
Reaction score
409
I have been reading The Shape of the Turtle by Sarah Allan, about 'Myth, Art, and Cosmos in Early China'.

In her book she refers to primative cultures as 'mythic' - that in a time before people wrote down their myths and stories, they lived and 'spoke in' myths - whereas later we wrote down the myths and started to discuss, argue, interpret, collect, reinterpret, study, etc. these myths, but we no longer lived them.

As a 'modern man' living in a culture that honors science, facts and linear, rational thinking, I have become more concerned with the accuracy, history, and 'truth' of these old myths, whereas they were never meant to be 'accurate' in the first place - nor 'true', meaning that they blended myths, dreams, tales, and actual events (that themselves may have been altered or interpreted in multiple ways), so they may or may not be 'true' in an historic ('did that really happen?') sense.

I don't think I can every fully get my head around - or live or embrace - this 'mythic' way of seeing and being. I can only approximate it - or try to.

For example, lately, when I do a Yi casting and get a response, I think - or pretend, "I had a dream where the Yi showed me: people in a wealthy household who were complaining, and where people were giggling and chuckling, but it didn't feel that they were being honest. The King of the household arrived, and they began to sacrifce captives whom were terrified." (37, lines 3,4,5,6; trans. R. Rutt).

Did this ever really happen? Was there a historic event that these Yi statements are based on? Perhaps yes, perhaps no. But if I see (and understand) this as the Yi's 'mythic' response, it doesn't really matter - or certainly not as much.

Best, D
 
Last edited:

IrfanK

visitor
Joined
Dec 15, 2011
Messages
752
Reaction score
561
Me too.
They say that Jesus walked on water and that he did many other miraculous things.
I have seen and read that in his time there were many who did healing/magic/soothsayings - but I think those attributes were propaganda like: Our prophet (Jesus) did that (miracles) much better...
Hmm, interesting. But Nabi Muhammad was always emphatic about denying that he had any miraculous powers. He was once asked about it: he replied that the only miraculous event he had ever witnessed or participated in, as a passive vessel, was the revelation of the Koran. On another occasion, he was asked about the most miraculous sight he'd ever seen. He replied: "The sun rising every morning."

Also the Buddha, for that matter. I think there's a parable about the man coming to him to ask to bring back his child from the dead, and he told the man to search through the village for a single household that had not been touched by death, and then perhaps the man's wish could be granted. He didn't find one.
 

Gmulii

visitor
Joined
Oct 22, 2018
Messages
229
Reaction score
68
That is sometimes called Siddhi(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhi).
Some show them openly, most hide them, as the attention it draws is not what they want...
While many of the practitioners develop some through their journey, the more they talk about it the more the focus may shift. Are they are willing to go there is up to the practitioner, most aren't.

For the Chinese systems, especially the Nei Gong ones https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neigong the masters there are sometimes more open and may show you some impressive things. But with few exceptions its rare to see it in youtube or videos, there are some that did show, but generally the attention that draws is not wanted,

if we look at the Tibetan systems the effects of the inner fire meditations there are so obvious that its challenging to hide them... Yet that isn't the idea, so similar to speaking about age in daoism it makes sense many will not mention it at all. As its suppose to be seen as side effect, not the goal. Together with the idea that from a spiritual system it may turn to aquisition of siddhi and that may prevent ones advancement on the way, for some time.

At the end of the day its up to the practitioner. I do not know if Jesus actually did stuff like that, I would imagine they all could, as that isn't as far ahead in the path as it may seem... But the important point is that the fact we aren't seeing it openly doesn't always mean its impossible. I had friends that could do stuff that will sound far, far away from what most members would consider possible here, yet I'm absolutely sure no one of them would ever record any of it, even less speak about it openly. Yet with other like minded people that won't freak out or try to disprove it too aggressively, stuff can be shown, same for most spiritual or metaphysical schools.

It just means it needs a specific path to get surrounded with things like that and if we travel that they seem as normal at this point, as every other event around us.
 

my_key

visitor
Joined
Mar 22, 1971
Messages
2,892
Reaction score
1,334
In the 1930's some guy postulated that bees shouldn't be able to fly: they were not aerodynamically built to fly was the myth he created. However this mythical message never got through to the bees and they continued to fly.

They are not sleek and slimline like aeroplanes ( on which the myth was based) and so have developed their unique way to balance lift, drag, weight, and thrust in order to propel themselves without touching terra firma. Their skittish flight is underpinned by the way they move their wings, creating tiny hurricanes that allow them to soar in their uniquely regal manner.

Like many other masters they do not have a need to shout their accomplishments from every roof top. Just being a bee is enough for them.

Full time score: Bees 1 Primitive Man 0
 

my_key

visitor
Joined
Mar 22, 1971
Messages
2,892
Reaction score
1,334
An old master..... English comedian Arthur Askey
 

surnevs

visitor
Joined
Apr 25, 2021
Messages
655
Reaction score
324
Mighty Helios
Thee Lord of Life
I can't imagine the feeling of appreciation
our earliest ancestors felt
when You
Helios
shed light and warmth
demanding the cold darkness
to flee
Thank You!
Helpless in the hand of the enemies
hunting in the dark
our ancestors were.
I can't imagine
their worship
of the Lord
of Light
Warmth
Safety
Life.
Why make You complicated
Helios?

My inspiration:
 
Last edited:

surnevs

visitor
Joined
Apr 25, 2021
Messages
655
Reaction score
324
PS: (#11) I do think that nearly all religions are but the sophistication of this very first and simple appreciation and thankfulness toward this Giver of warmth and light. And as men manage to make warmth and light for themselves, shelters and tools for defence this worship to the Sun became more and more a tradition that shifted toward the forms that religions later showed up to be: complicated and in worst cases frozen as bound to the past.
(I forgot to add this notification back when posting #11)
 

Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom

Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).

Top