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Seeing what you hope for rather than hearing IC?

kdedeaux4

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Hello again. Back to update and ask for help and thoughts on two more inquisitive readings I've done in the past week regarding this same situation/relationship from this thread:

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?21178-Thoughts-on-3-please

Still silence from S and I'm possibly more confused and astounded at this than anything that's made me scratch my head in quite awhile ...

From harmony, joy, and asking for more... (insert my vast fears at the depth of joy and emotion simple time alone with this man brought out in me)...not able to express my feelings from choking from past fears... to utter and absolute silence. I wanted to think he maybe lost his phone even this is too inexplicable, odd, and confusing!! However, a mutual friend of ours *has* communicated via text with him in this time of frozen silence from him. Thus, he's clearly intentionally choosing not to communicate with me !!!??? :-( :-(
So, I asked the IC, "what is the foundation of my connection and association with S.
Reply: Hex 8 unchanging "Holding Together" "Unity"... This made perfect sense as that's clear (or was clear before this silence).
I waited a few days to reflect and research 8 UC to try to not just see what I want to see but try to hear and understand the IC's insight.

Today, I'm still losing my mind perplexed over this drastic and sudden withdrawal.. So I asked IC, "When will I hear from S again?
Reply: Hexagram 24.1.2 --->7
I realize the initial look at "Return" got me excited that it wouldn't be long and the lines seem promising as they speak directly about the "return" and in the context of my question, yes, that's very much what I want to see/hear. However, in my years of researching hexes and trying to learn, often 24 has NOT meant a return from a person, but rather a return to oneself. Being that this situation IS eating at me more than I'd like it to and maybe more than it should even...?
I then wonder if the IC is NOT saying S will be back, but that I'll return to my free spirited nature and let loose of my need to understand and/or my desire for him to reconnect with me or at least explain this strange and sudden silence.

Please help me understand these replies without painting them pretty with my hopes and rose colored glasses? I try not to let things I can't understand take over my spirit, but I have to admit (here even if not in the real world or to S directly), that I really, admire, respect, and value this man and his presence in my life. I'm just so sad about this and so mad at myself that I'm emotionally handicapped and run from the very things that fill me with the most joy.
:-(
Thank you very much!
 

Tim K

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When will I hear from S again? 24.1.2 → 7
My first thoughts were:
.1 soon, .2 after he clears his mind from negative afterthoughts.
24 does speak of 'he will return in 7 days' (a cycle of time, week, month, half a year?).

But then h7 made me think about it more.

I've re-read the previous thread, and the advice given was 16.4.5 → 8.
Richmond 16.4:
If, now that repose is ending, we carry our calm confidence on into activity we can expect the support of others.
.5 just advises to calm down and avoid over-excitement.

16 goes to 8 through 2, and now 24 goes to 7 through 2 again.

So call him (h7,h16)! Correct your mistakes now (24.2), while you haven't got far off-track (24.1).
24.2 Wilhelm:
Return always calls for a decision and is an act of self-mastery. It is made easier if a man is in good company. If he can bring himself to put aside pride and follow the example of good men, good fortune results.

You seem to have taken a too passive position. 16.5 did advise taking a middle road, expressing neither too much nor too little enthusiasm.
 

kdedeaux4

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Oh Ashteroid....THANK YOU!! I'm just so perplexed over this and am very worried about "chasing" someone who seems to be clearly avoiding any communication with me for some reason....whatever the reason is... :(
Sooooo.... right before you replied here suggesting I call him (I've left it/him alone for 4 days now), I took a deep breath and texted him that I hope he's well and that he's been very much in my thoughts.
Hoping he doesn't choose to ignore this because after that, I WILL feel like I'm chasing, stalking...all those most UNattractive reactions I can't bring myself to let out...regardless how overwhelming this confusion is getting....
Thank you so much for your insight. I'll keep you posted!!
 

Tim K

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Yes I understand the chasing/stalking dilemma you are worried about.
That's why 16.5 is there.
If after couple of days you decide to text him again, maybe you should write that you feel guilty about that evening with another man, you know, admitting your mistake (24.2). Showing him a change of heart so to speak.
 
T

taoscopy

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Harmony is broken because of this 3.1.2.4 > 47: outcome is embarrassment as expected.

Today, I'm still losing my mind perplexed over this drastic and sudden withdrawal.

Let's revisit this hexagram, I didn't get it right:

Line 1: asking him to play the slave for you at this road trip
Line 4: asking him to wait for his turn (and with the suspicion that you might be cheating)
Line 2: you will need to build more trust with him before he accepts

3 - Remedy

Time will need to be spent. Seek assistance and clarify the situation by identifying the problems.
3 - Remedy

1 - When others ask for help, if one accepts despite the constraints they will set an example.

2 - One must establish a relationship of trust before others accept.

4 - Someone will receive help if they wait for their turn.
In the making
47 - The embarrassment

Circumstances or appearances play a negative role. Justifying oneself is useless, one will be understood later.

I told you to invite him along but maybe that was already too late.

For the 16.4.5 there are many ways to interpret it but I still think that it has to do with building more confidence with him by sharing more of your life with him.

24.1.2 > 7 suggests a depression.

7 - The will

To solve their problems, one will need discipline and continuity.

It's not going well at all, and that "forbidden question" taints the situation. Well, you'll have to go through difficult times but you have some pointers.

If he's just doing that to avoid the road trip then you'll have discovered a facet of his personality.
 

kdedeaux4

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Hi Taoscopy,
I'm very open to hearing interpretations and I'm so grateful for the insight that I hesitate to point out things that don't make sense. I don't intend to appear ungrateful. Also, because I'm very interested in learning, I feel pointing the misconceptions out is important at the same time.

The negative feel to your read sounds accurate as he's stopped all communication for some unknown reason. Clearly, I've upset him and/or the applecart somehow!!
Being that it's caused two misconceptions, I think I'll refrain from ever using the word forbidden in a post again as it seems to indicate all sorts of things I didn't intend nor are accurate, like multiple sex partners (I don't have them) and now the "forbidden question taints the situation."
Please understand that what I referred to in my original post by saying it was a "forbidden" question is merely and solely that I was asking about *his* feelings, when I typically try to keep to asking about *my* feelings and circumstances. That was the only forbidden element I intended...and it was definitely intended tongue in cheek, at that ;) Meaning only that I was asking the IC about his feelings.

I also am not sure how you're interpreting my invitation to him asking if he wanted to take a road trip with me to visit my sick aunt (and to deal with some typical "crazy relative stuff") that I was attempting to "enslave" him:confused: It was merely an invitation to ride along with me to have fun on the drive (we enjoy this kind of thing).
There was no enslavement nor any attempt of any kind like that. It was an invitation. I did explain to him that some of my relatives are a little kooky and very definitively explained that I'd understand if that situation might feel too uncomfortable for him... And explaining I'd understand totally if he *did* feel uncomfortable.
There was nothing "forbidden" in the literal sense within our relationship here and certainly nothing relating to an attempt at enslaving him with a simple invitation to go visit some kooky relatives of mine whom I love, but accept are a little "different". There also has been no cheating as we've not made that commitment to be exclusive and I only met up with a male friend, not a lover or romantic interest. Actually, I only mentioned that because we were discussing the road trip dates (because he was interested in going with me) and when I mentioned I had plans a certain night with a friend, I've not heard a word from him since!? So, I wondered if it maybe hurt his feelings even though we have no commitment.

Please understand that I'm very grateful for your wise insight:bows:. I just am struggling to understand it when it's full of implications which I didn't infer or intend. I hope you don't find this offensive in any way:)
 
T

taoscopy

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If you have trouble understanding my interpretation, you could just focus on the text then:

Line 1: When others ask for help, if one accepts despite the constraints they will set an example.

It can describe a slave, a prostitute, but also a medic healing people the first of january at 2AM, or an humanitarian going to a warzone.

I've used that image to help you understand, but apparently it had the reverse effect, sorry about that, I guess that if you don't get the situation as I presented it maybe someone with better communication skills will have better luck than me.

Also, I didn't imply that you've been cheating him but that's what he might have thought.

. I just am struggling to understand it when it's full of implications which I didn't infer or intend. I hope you don't find this offensive in any way

If he was a) ok to go at this road trip and b) not anxious at all to see you go with another guy then why did he became silent, really I can't understand myself either.

It's not recommended to ask the Yi about people's feelings, that's what you get, implications, embarrassment and embarrassing interpretations, so sorry about that.

You are right, I will refrain from meddling into forbidden questions from now on.
 

kdedeaux4

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Okay. So, by actually just asking the IC a question about his feelings (which I referred to as "forbidden" since I usually avoid those questions), then I actually tainted the situation with my question itself?

I feel that's important for me to understand if my question to the IC can create issues of their own and create more problems than I initially asked about. I meant no disrespect to you. I'm sorry my adjective choice has created such confusion. It was intended as a bit of a hyperbole really... :eek:

Thank you again. I'll spend some more time trying to understand the various elements of effect this has created within my situation which is very upsetting already.:bows:
 
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T

taoscopy

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The problem is that the Yi is not a tool that you use at your leisure. The Yi is an oracle which gives spiritual lessons.

One of these lessons is 44.2: One shows behind the scenes only to those who ask and are invited.

So, is it really wise to display the secrets of your heart and mind to people on forums?

I think not. So, let's put the resentments aside, it's now time for meditation and recognize that we should not be discussing your private life in public.

It's also the opportunity for me to reflect about this and the conduct I should adopt on these forums.

ETA:

Line 1: helping people on forums
Line 4: waiting for your turn on forums to receive help about the IC
Line 2: mutual trust is required

The outcome is 47: embarrassment.

The Yi knows best ;)


3 - Remedy

Time will need to be spent. Seek assistance and clarify the situation by identifying the problems.
3 - Remedy

1 - When others ask for help, if one accepts despite the constraints they will set an example.

2 - One must establish a relationship of trust before others accept.

4 - Someone will receive help if they wait for their turn.
In the making
47 - The embarrassment

Circumstances or appearances play a negative role. Justifying oneself is useless, one will be understood later.
ETA2:
The Yi has given guidelines about consulting for the relationships, in the hexagram 52:

Line 1: One does not go to see what others are doing, to avoid troubles.

If you have doubts about your partner, avoid checking their facebook page, or the places they usually go. That would only create troubles.

So, you might think that it is a very difficult rule to follow.

The Yi has given a follow-up in line 3: One asks the most capable when others do not respond.

If your partner does not reply, ask the Yi instead.

So the two lines together mean that instead of trying to figure out what your partner is doing by yourself, ask the Yi about it.

Note that 44.2 still applies, the Yi will not tell you what your partner is doing but what you need to know.

Then you have line 5: One does not express their doubts so as not to create difficulties.

Do not express your doubts to your partner. You can tell your doubts to the Yi if you get 52.3.5

Finally the Yi has one recommendation at line 6: One studies their neighborhood's demands before addressing them.

So, instead of trying to find what your partner is doing, try to find what your partner needs. You can ask the Yi about it.

Line 2 is about wanting more and Line 4 is about others continuing when you have stopped. So, 52.2.4 would mean that you have stopped wanting more but your partner still does.
 
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kdedeaux4

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Thank you Taoscopy. Yes, I felt this as a slap in the face from you of which is unnecessary, unprovoked, as well as unrelated in any way to what I went to the IC for in the first place.
I'm sorry I've offended you so deeply by pointing out the vast misunderstandings within your interpretation of my words, as opposed to the actual reading I requested help understanding. It surely was unintentional to upset you to this degree.
I'm not embarrassed to ask for help nor am I embarrassed to post here regarding my questions to the IC which relate to my private life. I doubt many people spend a great deal of time asking about much that isn't important to them personally.
With respect of all of this, Again, I thank you for your time, wisdom, and insight and I'll refrain from further comment and additional clarification of the misunderstandings which seem to continue regardless of my attempt to respectfully clarify my ambiguous and easily misunderstood word choices.
Best wishes and blessings to you. :bows:
 

kdedeaux4

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I take from this that while it's not advisable to ask how my friend feels about something, but it is acceptable to ask what he needs.
Perhaps due to the vast misdirection and misunderstanding of this errant request for interpretation help here which has added to my already deep level of confusion about my situation itself, I'll abandon this particular reading endeavor altogether and simply try asking the IC what my friend needs and hope I'll find the understanding I'm seeking.
Thank you again Taoscopy for that clarity in what is less forbidden to ask of the IC in relation to my situation. :bows:
 
T

taoscopy

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Hey you don't need to apologize to me, I've been culprit of not following 52.5 myself. I'm far from being a wise person, but I listen to the Yi.
 

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