Shall I wait until my debt goes out of date? hex 64.4>4

[AnnaP1]

hello this is my first post here. My father had a company that accumulated a huge debt. Now it went onto me and my brother. Part of this large sum (and taxes on it) is growing. I am living in another country now and there is a chance that my part will go void due to being out of date, five years are needed for that. So I received Hex 64 changing line 4 going to Hex 4 when I asked shall I wait until it goes out of date? What does that mean? My other question and option is to ask the judge to split the debt into smaller installments and pay it this way when I asked the I ching if I should do that I received Hex 56.3>35 I am a beginner with this system can someone guide me to what those answers mean? Anna

 

[AnnaP1]

Can someone explain? I have heard that hexagram 4 is shown always when someone is making a mistake or a ''fool'' of himself so then I should not wait for the debt to go out of date? I am sorry if this sounds bad but I am new with this.

 

[Trojina]

hello this is my first post here. My father had a company that accumulated a huge debt. Now it went onto me and my brother. Part of this large sum (and taxes on it) is growing. I am living in another country now and there is a chance that my part will go void due to being out of date, five years are needed for that. So I received Hex 64 changing line 4 going to Hex 4 when I asked shall I wait until it goes out of date? What does that mean? My other question and option is to ask the judge to split the debt into smaller installments and pay it this way when I asked the I ching if I should do that I received Hex 56.3>35 I am a beginner with this system can someone guide me to what those answers mean? Anna

You mean after a certain date the debt can no longer be applied to you ? Then yes do that it's much better than paying sums in smaller instalments given it's not really your debt anyway.


64.4>4 64 line 4 are more important than 4...so hexagram 64 'Not yet across' shows there still a river to cross, you aren't there yet. That's true, the issue is still unresolved. But line 4 says though this is arduous and takes time you can surely win through here and escape the debt. It might mean all sorts of things crop up you have to deal with, I don't know, sometimes creditors can go on hassling you long after they have any right to, things like that but if you know what your position is and go through with this then that is good.

My other question and option is to ask the judge to split the debt into smaller installments and pay it this way when I asked the I ching if I should do that I received Hex 56.3>35 I am a beginner with this system can someone guide me to what those answers mean? Anna

No, if you go ahead with this you are sort of owning it as your debt, but the answer shows, as does what you say, this isn't actually your debt at all. Yi shows you are only journeying through this situation, you don't live there so don't act like this is your debt. I don't think this is a good option.

 

[MrKind]

Thank you you see it is my debt because my father died long time ago and the debt went onto me and my brother, then we secured a loan onto my name to pay the debt (it's more complicated as my brother was dealing with our father's company after his death) so I'm lawfully responsible for it. Does your interpretation also hold in this case?

 

[MrKind]

Forwarding reply from my friend as she's not able to log in to her account somehow

 

[Trojina]

hello this is my first post here. My father had a company that accumulated a huge debt. Now it went onto me and my brother. Part of this large sum (and taxes on it) is growing. I am living in another country now and there is a chance that my part will go void due to being out of date, five years are needed for that. So I received Hex 64 changing line 4 going to Hex 4 when I asked shall I wait until it goes out of date? What does that mean? My other question and option is to ask the judge to split the debt into smaller installments and pay it this way when I asked the I ching if I should do that I received Hex 56.3>35 I am a beginner with this system can someone guide me to what those answers mean? Anna

I asked you

You mean after a certain date the debt can no longer be applied to you ?

...you haven't answered that. It all hinges on that doesn't it.


I'm not a solicitor so I don't know what your legal obligations are.

Thank you you see it is my debt because my father died long time ago and the debt went onto me and my brother, then we secured a loan onto my name to pay the debt (it's more complicated as my brother was dealing with our father's company after his death) so I'm lawfully responsible for it. Does your interpretation also hold in this case?

Not necessarily since I don't understand your situation. I mean whatever you think the I Ching says you have to act within the law don't you. Also the answer has to be understood within the context of the whole legal situation. You initially led me to understand that after a passage of time the debt would be voided by which I thought you meant the debt wouldn't apply ? I thought you meant there was some loophole by which you could legally be discharged of the debt after a certain period. I asked you if that is what you meant and you didn't answer.



I think it is up to you to try to apply the reading since you are in possession of the legal facts in the situation.


I also am not happy to answer when it's not clear who is actually posting. I will report your post so that it can be investigated as to why you are unable to post.

If you cannot post you simply email the owner of the site who can fix that for you rather than ask someone else to post for you.


Perhaps someone else can help you.

 

[Trojina]

...and really this is something you ought to be looking for some place like this to advise you ?

http://www.debtadvicefoundation.org/

If they cannot help they can point you in the direction of those who can.

I cannot see how children can inherit their parents debts surely the debt has to be written off with the death. Not being a solicitor I wouldn't know about individual cases and circumstances but to my knowledge debts can't be automatically passed on. If your brother took a loan in your name to cover the debt and you cannot pay that loan then you can simply declare yourself bankrupt, unable to pay and there is nothing much they can do other than to write the loan off.


Bankruptcy isn't such a big deal these days and only harms your credit rating for a few years. But you can get expert advice on that and other solutions from debt charities who can give free impartial advice or refer you to other legal advisors and so on.

However if after a certain period of time the debt is voided as you seemed to be saying then there would be no sense in making offers of payment now especially as it isn't your debt !

If by any chance you are withholding information in order to get an 'objective' interpretation please know there are no objective interpretations, no such thing...all readings occur within a context, must be understood within that context. You have a real tangible issue where there are real tangible solutions or options to find them so do go ahead an investigate those fully rather than rely on the I Ching.


That's not realistic to expect someone here can direct you on this regardless of what is actually possible, it seems kind of out of touch with the reality of the situation. Maybe that's why you got 4

Can someone explain? I have heard that hexagram 4 is shown always when someone is making a mistake or a ''fool'' of himself so then I should not wait for the debt to go out of date? I am sorry if this sounds bad but I am new with this.

You need to find things out, find facts out. If your debt will be legally discharged (for some reason) after a certain date then that surely is your answer. People can't just give interpretations regardless of the legal or practical context.

 

[AnnaP1]

You mean after a certain date the debt can no longer be applied to you ?

Yes that is what it seems. However it is not 100% certain because it depends on the decisions of civil office workers our country is very bureaucratic but there is a chance it will go void but if it would not then the additional fees will grow exponentially

If your brother took a loan in your name to cover the debt and you cannot pay that loan then you can simply declare yourself bankrupt, unable to pay and there is nothing much they can do other than to write the loan off.

no it is not that simpleI wasn't asking for your legal advice but for interpretation of the I ching results I got

If by any chance you are withholding information in order to get an 'objective' interpretation please know there are no objective interpretations, no such thing...all readings occur within a context, must be understood within that context. You have a real tangible issue where there are real tangible solutions or options to find them so do go ahead an investigate those fully rather than rely on the I Ching.

I wasnt witholding any information I dont know what you mean. I was asking about the I ching.

 

[Trojina]

Sometimes people do withhold information because they think it will make sure responses are more objective. I was just wondering if you were doing that as you weren't clarifying certain points.

Re the voiding of the debt

Yes that is what it seems. However it is not 100% certain because it depends on the decisions of civil office workers our country is very bureaucratic but there is a chance it will go void but if it would not then the additional fees will grow exponentially

Well given your initial answers and what you say here it does seem worth waiting to me, as I said in my first interpretation it seems a 'battle' worth fighting.


One idea to cover all eventualities is that you put to one side any additional fees while waiting so that if it does not go void you have saved up the sum required in your own bank account and will be able to pay should you be required to. If it does go void then your savings are yours.


With a plan like that in place I see no good reason not to wait to see if it goes void.

 

[AnnaP1]

Thank you this of course seems reasonable I was only wondering what those sentences from the second casting meant ''Legge: The third line, dynamic, shows the stranger, burning his lodging-house, and having lost his servants. However firm and correct he tries to be, he will be in peril. Wilhelm/Baynes: The wanderer's inn burns down. He loses the steadfastness of his young servant. Danger.'' And for the fourth hexagram from the first one "Wilhelm/Baynes: Entangled youthful folly brings humiliation. Cleary(1): Stuck in darkness, there is regret." as they dont sound too positive to me

 

[Trojina]

My other question and option is to ask the judge to split the debt into smaller installments and pay it this way when I asked the I ching if I should do that I received Hex 56.3>35

In 56.3 forgetting one is merely travelling through a situation one can make more of a big deal of things than need be, call attention to oneself and so invite danger. I saw this here as meaning if you make this suggestion you entrap yourself further. This debt isn't really yours and this debt isn't a permanent condition in your life, it's just a circumstance you are passing through. I thought by offering to make small instalments you are in effect offering yourself up when you needn't be. It's like saying "yes this is my debt, here I am, I will pay it, how would you like me to pay it ?". That might get you into a situation you are better off out of.



An experience from my own life reminds me of this. I once received a summons to court for stealing a car in London. I hadn't even been to London for many years and certainly had never stole a car. However I had to go to the court on the day specified otherwise that would be even worse. The name on the summons was actually my name backwards. When I got to the court the clerk advised me to not enter the court at all. He said it was obvious to him I was not that person since the person accused was a Mr my name backwards and I'm a woman. He explained if I went any further through the system my name would forever be linked with the stolen car. So I didn't enter the court and went home.


So that whole situation had nothing to do with me at all, it was a situation I was just passing through but if I had gone on acting as if it was, presenting myself in court to explain etc etc then I could have got a bit entangled. For bureaucratic reasons they would have taken my name and then......so the clerk said leave. See what I mean ? I wasn't the thief in town I was the stranger in town. Strangers need to move on quickly not get entangled in legal battles that have nothing to do with them. The I Ching even says the traveller does not get involved in prolonged lawsuits etc etc

And for the fourth hexagram from the first one "Wilhelm/Baynes: Entangled youthful folly brings humiliation. Cleary(1): Stuck in darkness, there is regret." as they dont sound too positive to me

So I received Hex 64 changing line 4 going to Hex 4 when I asked shall I wait until it goes out of date?

Hexgram 4 is your relating hexagram here, it isn't the focus of your answer which is 64.4. It may only indicate you are acting in the dark, you don't really know for sure how this will turn out. Nonetheless line 64.4 says you can go ahead and succeed.


When just one line changes it carries a lot of weight so I don't think 4 is a big part of your answer anyway.


Don't rush to see answers in terms of positive or negative. All answers only have meaning in terms of the context of the question. Hilary has just updated her module on interpretation as a conversation in the Foundations Course. https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/c/c/yijing-foundations/?lesson=24



Now because your question involves a lot money etc you also have to use your common sense which is why I was saying not to base your actions here solely on the I Ching or my interpretation. But that is my interpretation so far and actually even if you had not used the I Ching I would have come to the same conclusion anyway because surely it makes sense to wait, put the money aside just in case the debt isn't voided rather than go and draw attention by offering up small instalments and so on.


To me though the answers seems quite clear. By waiting you engage with old issues and you can win through and get the debt voided (64.4) but by offering more you kind of expose yourself to danger (56.3).




I can always be wrong of course which is why you must also use your own judgement but that is what your casts say to me.

 

[AnnaP1]

thank you very much for thisthis is what I will do, save money on the side and try to not involve myself too muchbut I dont understand why you keep saying its not my debt, it was taken in my name - there is my signature under the loan etc. (the debt from my father went onto my brother and me, as my brother took the company into his own hands and then after some time to pay parts of initial debts we have took another loan - the one with my own signature) maybe I wasnt clear enough with this

 

[Trojina]

Well you didn't accrue the debt did you ? You father made the debt. So it may be legally in your name but I'm not sure how much it is really yours.

Makes no difference to how I see the reading anyway.


But you inherited the debt you never made the debt yourself did you so even though it is legally in your name I can't see it as wholly yours. You know best given you are in the situation of course but from the way you described it I don't see that it's really your debt even if it is on paper.

 

[AnnaP1]

Now I understand what you meant the loan might be in my name and it was taken to cover the debt but I did not made the debt it was my father. thank you