Should I pay all the money we asked me ? 41.1>4

[ymoshietsu]

Hi all, I lived with my girlfriend for 3 years until we end this relationship last year. Two weeks later she found a new guy and told me she is in love she is happy.. (ok good for her), but she came back in september and asked me to give her 10 000 € because she paid a lot of thing when we were together and said she sacrified 3 years of her life for me...

Today she tried to manipulate me and blackmail me with a lawyer.. I have seen a lawyer too and he told me that I'm untouchable because I have no trace of any money on my account from her. But I recognized (with my moral) she helped me sometimes when I was in the need so I said to her " OK I can promess you 2000 € but not more ". I made the maths, and find that indeed I should give back those 2000 € but not 10 000€...

Now she really try all the possible things to piss me off and blackmailed me with "man of the law" even if she is sure to loose... because 2000 € is not enough, she clearly want those 10 000 € So I asked the Yi if I should pay back all the " debt " she asked me and got 41.1 > 4 To me The YI said I don't have to give all the money because it is mad and foolish (hex 4) sacrifice myself and giving back 2000 is enough...

What do you think about that ? Is the Yi suggest me that diminishing myself will be fool ? The YI talk about sacrifice but with line one I think it's not a good sacrifice to make... because my ex-girlfriend just want to extract benefit from me like a evil person !

Thank for your answer !

 

[Trojina]

Now she really try all the possible things to piss me off and blackmailed me with "man of the law" even if she is sure to loose... because 2000 € is not enough, she clearly want those 10 000 € So I asked the Yi if I should pay back all the " debt " she asked me and got 41.1 > 4 To me The YI said I don't have to give all the money because it is mad and foolish (hex 4) sacrifice myself and giving back 2000 is enough...

What do you think about that ? Is the Yi suggest me that diminishing myself will be fool ? The YI talk about sacrifice but with line one I think it's not a good sacrifice to make... because my ex-girlfriend just want to extract benefit from me like a evil person !

I think it's a clear answer that you need to give her no more than what she's owed, end the business, move on.

Obviously 41 is Decrease where one is called to sacrifice but just 2 small bowls are enough. By line 1 one is being asked to consider how much is enough, just as you are doing. This reading seems so literal it says, the Oracle from Hilary's translation


'Decreasing: there is truth and confidence.
From the source, good fortune.
Not a mistake, there can be constancy.
Fruitful to have a direction to go.
How to use this ?
Two simple baskets may be used in the offering.'


It says 'two simple baskets' is enough and you are offering $2000 so I think your offer is correct.


Line one from Hilary's translation

'Bringing [one's own] business to an end, going swiftly,
Not a mistake.
Considering decreasing it.'

There's a lot of discussion around this line with people seeing it quite differently. What I think we can be sure of here is that this is to do with giving this whole thing a limited amount of attention, a limited amount of money and then moving on quickly.


Interestingly my personal experience of the line is being on the receiving end of other people moving on quickly with their job or their work when I request attention so to me it feels quite a brusque line, quite abrupt behaviour sometimes.


I wonder if apart from the money she wants something else from you too ? There sounds to be much bitterness there which is odd given that she found a new guy and says she's happy. Hmm I suspect she isn't quite so happy as she says at all and perhaps wanted more of a reaction from you ? Perhaps she wanted you to be more jealous or something ? I don't know but if she is happy with someone else why is so caught up in getting more money, being so emotional about it with the threats and so on.


I do think Yi suggests you cut the whole thing short, not let it go on. Maybe you could say you will give her 2500 as a gesture but you are only offering it for a limited period so either she takes the money from you within a week or you withdraw your offer.


Come to think of it I think Yi may be suggesting you give in to her just a little bit more as a sacrificial sweetener. What about 3000 ?

It may be worth giving her 3000 just to keep her happy that you gave in a little bit and it may get the whole thing over and done with. So she says 10,000 you offer 2,000 and a slight midway negotiation brings it to 3000 she will feel she has the satisfaction of winning something and you aren't paying 10,000.

 

[diamanda]

I asked the Yi if I should pay back all the " debt " she asked me and got 41.1 > 4
Definitely not all.
Even giving her a small sacrifice (first line of 41) will be foolish (4).

 

[ymoshietsu]

Thanks you for the big reply Trojina and Diamanda !

I asked myself too, is the money the real problem ? and I think like you, that she is not so happy and want some attention, she said also " It's ok if it takes 15 years to refund me " that is very questionning... !!! It's like giving her some money per month is giving a bit / piece of attention maybe love too ? but this is very suspectious when a person say to you, 15 years ??? just for money ? it's like she wanted to maintain a kind of connection... get a grip on me. Moreover i'm not jealous, I take conscious that this relationship have to end for the sake of both of us (for me it's sure !)

She is a very rigid person and I know now that I have to forget her because she's a bit toxic, she twisted his reality of our love story to say " I'm a victim, you're a bad person " (like his older love stories before me, that is weird...). Now she blackmail me, try to manipulate me... I already tried to discuss about the amount, I already tell her to keep the laptop (brand new 500€) but she definitly want 10 000 € no more no less.

I think by refering on what the yi approximatly say " when the work is done, go away ". On another question about this relationship I've got Hex 18 unchanging.. work on the corrupt.. So I think by those yi's answer, that after pay back those 2 000 €, it's will be time to moving on for good and cut all the corrupt link between us. Moving on quickly as you said

What do you think with those additionnal information ? Thx you again ! you both confirm what I was thinking about this question !

 

[moss elk]

I have received this line many times in regards to a demanding relative who tries to control everyone in her life.
The relative demands help, and demands it come instantly!
(90% of the time it is not a crisis)

This line says, No you do not have to rush to help this one, you do not have to go along with the overblown demands.

Now, I agree that if she did help you financially that it would be fair to pay her the 2000 amount that you are thinking of.

But you are no longer in a relationship,
so she has no right to demand or even ask anything of you that is not owed.

 

[ymoshietsu]

Indeed I'm not in this relationship and she's the one who wanted to stop.. " I helped you, nearly cheated on you (because have an other guy in 2weeks after.. things began much before, and we both knew him but it's life ^^) and I want my money back " It's like she didn't accept to give me something from herself when we were together. I try to be fair and have my mind clean ! that's why I think I can give a little bit of that amount she asked but yeah i'm not a fool neither ^^

 

[diamanda]

She sounds like a heavy manipulator. If I were you I would run, and delete this person from my life.

 

[ymoshietsu]

She sounds like a heavy manipulator. If I were you I would run, and delete this person from my life.

You are absolutly right ! this is the plan ! Cut all contact and end this from my entire life. Moreover I think that the question I asked to the YI in this topic (you have answered Diamanda btw) https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/fri...-to-make-my-love-situation-evolves-30-1-gt-56 answers in reality to a situation when i'm blind but with those confused steps Hex 30.1, I do the right things to go on exile, be alone hex 56...

It's very interesting that the YI seems to answer to a priority action or emergency action and not really the question I made previously.

 

[Trojina]

You are absolutly right ! this is the plan ! Cut all contact and end this from my entire life.

Unless you also have residual feelings for her ?


What I mean is if it were the case you both secretly wanted to be back together but don't know how to then aggressive measures can be just a vehicle for contact.

She is a very rigid person and I know now that I have to forget her because she's a bit toxic,

I worry about this word 'toxic' being used about people because it just trashes them as if they are toxic waste. I don't deny her behaviour is disturbing and you want it to go away and indeed Yi says to end this negotiation quite quickly but be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater through a series of miscommunications. One way to demote a person into a thing is to call them 'toxic' - it's a meaningless term because it seems to covers everything from being a bit mean to being a psychopath....I just find it a lazy way to describe people. (I'm not saying you are lazy I'm just venting about the over use of this term being applied all over the place to anyone someone has a problem with - end of rant)



It's also really really important how things end with people. Now you and she once loved each other as you were together for 2 years. I don't think the label 'toxic' is going to bring you happiness in the long run because we need to feel at peace with broken or ended relationships. If we don't they can cause underlying pain for years. Also if she is suddenly termed 'toxic' then you lose part of yourself too, the part that joined with her for 2 years.


You say

I asked myself too, is the money the real problem ? and I think like you, that she is not so happy and want some attention, she said also " It's ok if it takes 15 years to refund me " that is very questionning... !!! It's like giving her some money per month is giving a bit / piece of attention maybe love too ? but this is very suspectious when a person say to you, 15 years ??? just for money ? it's like she wanted to maintain a kind of connection... get a grip on me. Moreover i'm not jealous, I take conscious that this relationship have to end for the sake of both of us (for me it's sure !)

Yes if she's talking 15 years she isn't that keen on losing you is she but her wish for connection to you is manifesting as hatred possibly because she has no idea herself she even wants connection.


Cutting her off now might be the solution, talking to her face to face might be another ? Line 1 isn't asking you to prolong this whole thing about the money, but the question was about the money not about the relationship or her. You are saying you do think the relationship had to end and you are happy it did so that's fine if you want to go ahead and cut her off. But be aware that kind of cutting off can actually cause feelings to last longer. I've always found more gradual amicable splits are easier to get over and leave far less long term damage.


Admittedly she sounds past the amicable stage but her behaviour reminds me of a child who is naughty because they want to be held and most often the only time they get to be held is when they are being restrained/disciplined.


I'm probably way off in that line of thought since I don't know the whole story I just wanted to put some other thoughts out there, other options.



Also if there is any part of you that actually does want, deep down, to reconnect with her then it's going to be tragic if you both get locked into acting out hatred when you both want to be together.


I've no idea of you inner feelings of course or hers just adding other options to consider

 

[ymoshietsu]

Unless you also have residual feelings for her ?

No I don't, I made my grief and now I just want to move on and meet other people. I used the word " toxic " and " a bit " not to labelling her the way you might think but more like a narcissistic person ready for all to have what she wants. I work as a psychologist and especially with people being manipulated, victims of domestic violence. In the common sense we talk about " toxic relationship " or " narcissistic pervert " or if it is really bad "psychopath ". I just think with some retreat that myself too I was involved of something like this.

I'm agree with you that not everyone should be qualified " toxic " because a relationship has ended... I don't hate her, I even thanks her so much because I learn a lot of things on me, to be a better person but now I do feel it's time to cut with that past story. Beforce cutting communication about the money etc.. I try to understand the whole thing with open mind and heart but without success on the other side.

Cutting her off now might be the solution, talking to her face to face might be another ? Line 1 isn't asking you to prolong this whole thing about the money, but the question was about the money not about the relationship or her. You are saying you do think the relationship had to end and you are happy it did so that's fine if you want to go ahead and cut her off. But be aware that kind of cutting off can actually cause feelings to last longer. I've always found more gradual amicable splits are easier to get over and leave far less long term damage.

I met her face to face, tried to be nice, and I was in front of the rock. She said to me things really hurting and she made a lot of projections... So when I saw that behaviour, I told myself " Ok, I can't say something, have a normal conversation because she categorized me as an evil person so I just have to leave for my mental sanity ". I can't and I don't want to stay a friend just for being used when she needs me.

I don't want to reconnect with her, it won't be sane, I have to admit myself (paintful as it is) that I was involved in not a good relationship... I fall into that romance because of my narcissistic flaws... like we do have all more or less, but life is lesson and this romance was a part of it ! So I do feel that the better choice is to be separate and don't get back even as a friend. Some people are just a passage in your life. I don't hate her, I don't love her, I just want to be fair (and I think you know that it's really hard !)

Thank you for your post, It's always useful to have people who try to think outside of the box

 

[ymoshietsu]

Hello all,
I'm coming back on this post because I'm sick to keep giving money to my ex. Indeed, each month she has a wiretransfer but now I want to be free from this. So I asked today the YI :

Should I Stop paying this illigetimate debt ? I got 63.4 => 49. I think 63.4 say I should have already stop giving her money " after completion "

Line 4 means : "the prudent will take decisive action to eliminate little problems before they are allowed to become big ones... " I think this line say I have to do action to prevent more problem in the future... so stop those wiretransfer probably because I need money too !

Hex 49 I think is my inside turmoil, to cut those money transfer because this relationship is over nearly 2 years... What do you think about that ? Thank you very much for your help

 

[moss elk]

Maybe the silk rag that is wearing out here is your patience and tolerance, maybe it is the last vestiges of affection between the two of you.

Earlier you said you would pay the amount of 2000, have you paid that yet?
If so, be done with her. She is using you now.

You sounded to me as someone who was fair, generous, and even selfless by the way you considered and started to give. Don't allow yourself to be taken advantage of. (Consider that the line refers to you having to take the shirt off your back to deal with this.)

 

[ymoshietsu]

I have paid 600 euros and she had some stuff like a washing machine (200 euros), tripod, a brandly new laptop...(600 euros too) all of that approch 1500 euros and today I have to travel, meet people to make my thesis... In november she contacted me to say if I won't Refund all the 10 000 euros she will take a baillif.. She blackmailed me with that.. And now I just want to live for me... that's all..

I think it's time to end this regards those drawing, I'm not involved in this relashionship anymore since 2 years.. I'm done with all of that. I just wanted to be a good person and not just being that kind of guy black and white.. but I think she knows I'm a good guy and want to take advantage of this... So yeah It's time to remove my shirt on my back ^^

 

[moss elk]

I don't think you have to worry,
because I have never heard of a Judge ordering someone to pay alimony who wasn't married.

It is turning into extortion, maybe you should talk to a lawyer or the police yourself, to calm your nerves.

 

[moss elk]

But better yet,
I would not worry at all about this situation, with the reading of 41.1

paraphrasing "You are running at her every beck and call, neglecting your own affairs, consider doing less of that"

From that, one can logically deduce that there is no harm in ignoring her.

(I love that logic and magic are not mutually exclusive)

 

[ymoshietsu]

I already saw a lawyer to calm my nerves ^^ He said that she can't do anything because there are no trace on money movement from her on my bank account. She can't prove she gave me money. I'm calm with this situation, it's just that giving money every month is to maintain a kind of bound with her. It's a link I don't want to keep but I want to be a fair guy. I was wondering myself, why i have to be fair and good with someone who is obsviously not ?

With those drawning as you said with 41.1 and 63.4 it's time to stop those wiretransfer. Thank you for answering me ! this is very helpful, I wiil keep you inform regard this situation and regard the yi's answer !

 

[ymoshietsu]

I have stopped those money transfer today, I have also blocked mail adress and phone because this is the end of the story. I ask the Yi if I took the right decision to cut all link, financial too !

I just had 37.1.3.5=>23. I think it's a good one regarding the lines too because this talk about familiy chief, make order in his family (in me, in my home I think)

Line 1 : I can trust me ! in my home !

Line 3 : It have not to worry about me to being severe regarding my decision.. it's normal

Line 5 : It's a good decision to protect myself !

I think it's pretty obivious this is the right call !

 

[ymoshietsu]

Just a feedback on this post to say everthing is fine ! This case is closed, I made the good decision and moreover I don't hear something form her. She cannot do anything on me... This situation is over and i'm finally in peace with that ! Thank you all the forum for helping me regarding this problem !