should I wait or..?? 54>24

[stark tree]

Hello everyone

after a series of positive readings about a possible relationship I am trying to find the best approach (ie not to rush it but not to be too passive/fearful of action either).

In a way I sort of feel I've done 'my bit' so far by showing my feelings, even though we are not in a straightforward situation (I am in a struggling relationship at present, he's free) ..anyway I asked the i ching what is my best approach towards this situation/relationship and drew 54 changing to 24 (line 2 and 4 i believe?)

I then asked should I wait for him to do the next move/get in touch and drew 32 changing to 35

Any insights/advice as to what would be the best course of action?

Many thanks!

 

[icastes]

The difficulty here is that 54 indicates a very incompatible couple that could have a very lovely and tender period of affection, but would separate anyway. If you are looking for marriage, the situation is no better. He may be free, but that does make you free. 54 indicates that this entire situation is very bad. That it resolves itself into 24, a good gua, doesn't mean that you are going to do with well with him as you probably will return to a better situation after it breaks up. 54 is about not indulging physical pleasures that violate social conventions. If you do, then misfortune will befall. It warns you to reform yourself to avoid misfortune. One cannot help but wonder how good a situation it is for the man to become involved with you when you are with someone else, which is why you are faced with 54.

Will he contact you? Probably, as the hexagrams are very good for that.

 

[stark tree]

Thanks icastes, I believe that is quite a straightforward, accurate reading.

I think both this person and I are grown up enough to see the situation from an objective point of view (we know the situation is completely socially 'inappropriate') and we have talked about it at the very onset.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you talk about 'the lovely and tender period of affection' that would eventually break up. I think we both know that that would be the best that we can aspire to and we are both reluctant to move in any direction. (he in particular, as he's a much more cautious personality in general and I also think he obviously feels quite ambivalent about my current relationship status)

What makes it difficult is that the tender and loving affection is very hard to let go (much more than any physical pleasures, though the thoughts are there, it is not an attraction merely based on lust. we have a real friendship)

I think in the past I've always let myself be led by my desires without thinking about the consequences, whereas this person has a great deal of difficulty letting go of control and over analyzes his feelings to the point of being completely stuck. Maybe we are both meant to learn this from each other, that the truth often lies somewhere in the middle??

That said, do you think 24 can imply a return to a friendship or a complete return to being strangers? I also drew 24 (changing to 3..) when he recently got back in touch after a period of silence.

Would love to hear more of your insight. thank you so much so far. )

 

[icastes]

Thanks icastes, I believe that is quite a straightforward, accurate reading.

I think both this person and I are grown up enough to see the situation from an objective point of view (we know the situation is completely socially 'inappropriate') and we have talked about it at the very onset.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you talk about 'the lovely and tender period of affection' that would eventually break up. I think we both know that that would be the best that we can aspire to and we are both reluctant to move in any direction. (he in particular, as he's a much more cautious personality in general and I also think he obviously feels quite ambivalent about my current relationship status)

What makes it difficult is that the tender and loving affection is very hard to let go (much more than any physical pleasures, though the thoughts are there, it is not an attraction merely based on lust. we have a real friendship)

I think in the past I've always let myself be led by my desires without thinking about the consequences, whereas this person has a great deal of difficulty letting go of control and over analyzes his feelings to the point of being completely stuck. Maybe we are both meant to learn this from each other, that the truth often lies somewhere in the middle??

That said, do you think 24 can imply a return to a friendship or a complete return to being strangers? I also drew 24 (changing to 3..) when he recently got back in touch after a period of silence.

Would love to hear more of your insight. thank you so much so far. )

Well, my immediate reaction is that that you can't return to beings strangers, as you are not strangers. The issue is what kind of friendship or acquaintance you will be. 24 is very auspicious generally, and hence I think you would probably be well suited in a post-romantic period.

The 24 turning to 3 is difficult. The 3 can be considered auspicious insofar as it is a new start. But any new start is precarious and when it comes to human relations it means that things are very difficult. Hence, what is required is great patience and forbearance. It is virtually impossible for marriage, unless it is a late-marriage and for any love it requires not only patience but great faithfulness to have any chance of success. But that fidelity has to be mutual, and that may not be easy in this case.

 

[stark tree]

Thank you icastes for coming back to me. yes that's what I got out of 24 changing to 3..I think to sum it up in 3 words..'it's complicated!!'

The interesting thing is that I got 24.5 after receiving a message of apologies from the guy, for not having been in touch and since I did not feel completely trustworthy towards him (he had broken my trust by not calling when he said he would) I asked 'what does he want from me with this message?' and the changing line literally says 'noblehearted return...if a man has done something wrong he should make a noblehearted resolve to confess his fault'. talk about accurate reading!!

I guess what I find difficult in this situation is knowing whether or not to let go completely, even though deep down I know no one can tell me that, i keep looking for answers, hence these readings. I find the iching helps me learn something of value even when i don't fully understand it in the immediate present.

Going back to the subject of 54, I know we talked about the hex in general but I'm still wondering about the moving lines I got (2 and 4) , if you or anyone out there is still interested in exploring the subject, as I heard we should pay close attention to the moving lines when looking for advice as to what to do in a situation.

Feeling like i'm in a situation where I was out of control (spot on 54!), and where I felt I'd been left in the dark by the guy recently, i asked the iching what should be my best attitude (bearing in mind I know the situation is socially inappropriate and possibly shortlived because of the context):

Line 2. I'm inclined to see the image of line 2 with the wife still showing loyalty in spite of the husband deserting her or dying as pretty straightforward 'keep the faith' type symbolism, whatever that maybe, or am I being misled?

And then line 4, with the marrying maiden waiting and being virtuous and therefore attaining late marriage in due course..does that not speak of some kind of virtue obtained by just being one's self, not being pushed or rushing into things, and then possibly a good outcome (late marriage?)

I'm interested in knowing whether one should be encouraged to stick to a close reading of the lines in this case or just with the general idea of 54..

MAny thanks again, i really value your input!! )

 

[icastes]

Let's look at 54 overall and then the lines. It is a very difficult situation. First, let us remember that marriage and love have nothing to do with each other in the Yijing, because marriage is not a vehicle of love, but a social institution that dynastic, political, or economic reasons. Love may bloom between a husband and wife, but no one marries for love alone, especially as marriages tended to be arranged in ancient times. In 54, the younger sister marries before the elder sister, and thus it is a violation of social convention. The upper trigram is the eldest son, and the lower trigram is the youngest daughter. Older man, younger woman--seems like there are passions here that are not conventionally good. Emotions and lust rule, rather than proper rules and moderation. So, this gua is a warning to behave well, and also to reform oneself. If, however, there is a natural connection between an older man and a young woman, as with a barmaid, a cabaret girl, a stripper, courtesan, etc., then 54 indicates that the woman will be successful in getting a "patron," so to speak.

One should also note that the situation is extremely difficult for the young girl as well. She is going into a household that she knows nothing about and she is out of place.

The various translations of line 2 all point to the same thing: One finally sees things as they are, but that is only for the sake of being steadfast and virtuous; hence, it is solitary, not a union of two. Moving line 4 indicates that for some reason that marriage did not take place. She waits until the right man comes around. Patience, then, is advised. Imagine what must have happened if the young woman became free and did not marry? What happened? What forced the situation to go back to what is expected conventionally?

If you apply the hexagram to your situation with the man, I think you will see the problems that abound.

 

[stark tree]

Thank you icastes..lots of food for thought there, and a kind of bitter taste in my mouth at the moment, which is probably a very '54' kind of feeling!

I have a feeling there isn't much I can do in the situation as it is as there is so much that is out of my control and can't see all of the elements from where I stand (hence the confusion)

once again the iching has provided a very useful description of the situation I'm faced with, which sort of validates my ideas and fears at present.

I guess I'll just have to wait, be virtuous, positive and open to learn from all experiences.

thanks again for your reply!