Source for this yarrow method?

[myanon0001]

I'm trying to reconstruct a simple yarrow method that I used to consult the Yi Jing more than 40 years ago. Unfortunately, I can't recall my sources for this method, and it's different from those I've so far been able to find described anywhere. Here it is, as best I can remember:

Start with a heap of about 50 stalks (the exact number doesn't matter). From this heap, randomly grasp & remove a smaller heap. Count through the grasped heap by four stalks at a time, giving a remainder 1, 2, 3, or 4 (interpreted as line-values 10-1=9, 10-2=8, 10-3=7, 10-4=6, respectively). Set this remainder group aside and recombine the other stalks into a heap. Repeat the preceding procedure until six remainder groups have been set aside in succession, interpreted as six line-values that in the usual way provide two hexagrams (primary & secondary). Finally, repeat the procedure once more, except count through by six stalks at a time, giving a remainder 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6. This remainder is interpreted as the line number of a unique "speaking line" for the two hexagrams -- if it is the line number of a changing line (6 or 9) then the speaker is taken in the primary hexagram, else in the secondary hexagram.

That's it. This always produces two hexagrams with exactly one "speaking" line, and the line-values (6, 7, 8, 9) occur with equal probabilities, i.e. in the proportions 1:1:1:1, rather than the more-usual 1:5:7:3 (with yarrow) or 1:3:3:1 (with 3 coins).

Does anyone recognize this method? Know of any source for it?

 

[pocossin]

Could this method of casting have been your own creation?

 

[myanon0001]

pocossin -- That's possible, as my memory is not what it used to be; but I think I took it from some book in the early '70s.

On the other hand, I did experiment with some methods of my own making. For example, since I preferred yarrow methods to coins, but felt uncomfortable with the asymmetric (1:5:7:3) probability ratios in the usual 49-stalk method, I was pleased to discover that the usual yarrow method will produce the symmetric (1:3:3:1) 3-coin ratios if one merely uses 48 instead of 49 stalks. (Coincidentally, I was reading yesterday that during the Tokugawa period in Japan, there were influencial ekisha (Yijing diviners) who argued that originally the oracle involved only 48 stalks.)

 

[pocossin]

I attempted to describe Chris Lofting's method of casting.

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?12878-Chris-Lofting-s-System

(Coincidentally, I was reading yesterday that during the Tokugawa period in Japan, there were influencial ekisha (Yijing diviners) who argued that originally the oracle involved only 48 stalks.)

The Takashima Ekidan is now a Google Book.

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?11287-Takashima-Ekidan

 

[myanon0001]

pocossin -- Thank you for the links. I think that I'll have to digest chrislofting's ideas for a while.

I'm wary of approaches that dismiss the role of "randomness" in consulting the oracle. It seems to me that "randomness" is one way to give voice to a part of us that is ordinarily silent/suppressed, a hidden and seemingly divinely knowing part that consequently is often mistaken as being not us.

Relating to the randomly selected "speaking line" in the oracle method I asked about above (and also in Takashima's method), an image might be that of a "talking stick" being passed among participants in a gathering, with permission/encouragement to speak being given to the one holding the stick. BTW, if I'm not mistaken, Takashima's method was the "simplified method" used in the prominent oracle school of Arai Hakuga (1725-1792), mentioned in Ng's article below.

My source for an argument that the Zhouyi oracle originally used only 48 stalks is an article by Wai-Ming Ng at National University of Singapore: Study and Uses of the I Ching in Tokugawa Japan.

 

[pocossin]

My source for an argument that the Zhouyi oracle originally used only 48 stalks is an article by Wai-Ming Ng at National University of Singapore: Study and Uses of the I Ching in Tokugawa Japan.

And yet 50 is the number in the Great Treatise (Wilhelm, p.310).

 

[myanon0001]

And yet 50 is the number in the Great Treatise (Wilhelm, p.310).

I think the reasoning is that the "five-ish" numbers (50 stalks, 55 as the sum of the 5 heavenly and 5 earthly numbers, ...) started to appear in the oracle methods when the Five Stages of Change philosophy grew to prominence. I assume the argument refers to a yarrow oracle prior to that influence.

 

[kafuka]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbeI0nZQyqw
I just watched this video. My Japanese's not that great, so I may be wrong, but I think the diviner uses 52 sticks in this method. It's a simple version because she draws upper trigram, lower trigram and just one changing line. She uses sticks made of bamboo, they are wider on one (think the upper) side when holding. I think the method is like this:

Step 1) She puts one aside, divides in two heaps. Because there are 8 trigrams in total she counts 8 at a time, gets remaining 4. 4 means upper trigram is Thunder.

Step 2) She puts one aside, divides in two heaps. Because there are 8 trigrams in total she counts 8 at a time, gets remaining 6 this time. 6 means the lower trigram is Water.

Step 3) She puts one aside, divides in two heaps. Because there are 6 lines in total she counts 6 at a time, gets 2 remaining. It means the second line changing, I think.

 

[peterg]

The Takashima Ekidan sprang to mind when I read the first post. I got it via googlebooks print on demand. One of my favourites. The numbers for the trigrams follow the early heaven arrangement. Its also free to download somewhere online.

I was not entirely happy with the 3/1 asymmetry for moving lines, which incidentally skews the relating hexagrams. H 2 for eg will appear 1/16 times. It felt as if the Yi was talking mostly out of one side of its mouth.
Even though I like the idea of putting one aside as a 'witness' and '+1' is an integral feature of yarrow,
a few years ago I switched over to symmetrical yarrow when I realised it could be achieved by one simple adjustment.
I still have 50 chopsticks but I put two aside and use 48. This gives 2266 symmetry for the lines. I'm happier with Yi talking out of both sides of its mouth.

The idea that 48/Symmetry may have been ancient practice is new to me and very interesting.

 

[myanon0001]

kafuka --
You may also want to take a look at
A. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A2N_hnBX8k
in addition to the video you mentioned, i.e.
B. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbeI0nZQyqw
I think video A shows the method described in Takashima Ekidan. Video B seems to show a variant that differs from A by (1) casting the trigrams in reverse order (first upper, then lower), (2) using a different remaindering procedure in which no "extra" stalk is placed between the fingers, and (3) some minor things like not leaving the single stalk in the stalk holder during the three castings (one for each trigram and one for the moving-line number).

Note that these two remaindering methods are *not* equivalent:

Video A uses the "extra" stalk method: a heap is counted through by 8s to get a remainder in the range 0..7, to which 1 (represented by the "extra" stalk held between the fingers) is added to get a result in the desired range 1..8. Similarly for counting through by 6s to get a remainder 0..5, then 1 is added to get a number in the desired range 1..6.

Video B uses the "direct" method: the result of a counting-through by 8s is simply taken to be the remainder itself when this is nonzero (1..7), otherwise it's taken to be 8 when the remainder is 0, thus giving a result in the desired range 1..8. Similarly for counting through by 6s.

Both videos use the same (Takashima's) numbering of the trigrams, in which trigram number n (1..8) corresponds to the binary representation of the number 8-n. (NB: This differs from both of the two canonical sequences called "Earlier Heaven" and "Later Heaven".) For example, trigram number 5 is ☴ because 8 - 5 = 3 = 011 in binary notation. The sequence is: 1☰, 2☱, 3☲, 4☳, 5☴, 6☵, 7☶, 8☷.

 

[pocossin]

For example, trigram number 5 is ☴ because 8 - 5 = 3 = 011 in binary notation. The sequence is: 1☰, 2☱, 3☲, 4☳, 5☴, 6☵, 7☶, 8☷.

I have not seen this conversion to binary before.

 

[myanon0001]

I have not seen this conversion to binary before.

Takashima Ekidan says (p. 3) "This remainder gives a complement of the destined diagram", and then it lists the trigrams in the mentioned order. The term "complement"(*) caused me to wonder about binary complementation, and led me to look at the values that result when the trigrams are read as binary numerals. Sure enough, in this sequence trigram number n (1..8) is the binary numeral of the number 8-n:

style="width: 500px"
|-
| trigram
| ☰
| ☱
| ☲
| ☳
| ☴
| ☵
| ☶
| ☷
|-
| binary value
| 7 = 111
| 6 = 110
| 5 = 101
| 4 = 100
| 3 = 011
| 2 = 010
| 1 = 001
| 0 = 000
|-
| trigram number
| 1
| 2
| 3
| 4
| 5
| 6
| 7
| 8
|-
| sum
| 8
| 8
| 8
| 8
| 8
| 8
| 8
| 8

(*) It's clarified later in the text that "complement" here refers to the lower and upper trigrams, which are complementary to one another in that together they complete a whole hexagram.