...life can be translucent

Menu

Taken By Surprise

arabella

visitor
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
1,668
Reaction score
51
A few months back I was taken by surprise in a conversation -- someone I care about a lot asking a personal question which I tried to answer truthfully and ended up making a mess of the explanation. It was just too complex to explain easily and so ended up garbled and embarrassing. Ultimately this seems to have botched up our connection, which I really regret.

Amidst the general chaos of my life I've periodically tried to think of ways to patch this up and everything I consider leaves me worried that I could just make matters worse. So I've done nothing and when our paths cross I act, as much as I can, like nothing happened.

It's all an aggravating situation that continues to haunt me so today I asked the YiChing if I went forward with a plan to provide a better explanation, how would that be viewed? The casting I received was: Hex 2.1.3.6 becoming Hex 22. This doesn't look promising, and I take it I should just keep my mouth shut and live with what I've said already.
 

tigerintheboat

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 22, 2006
Messages
1,612
Reaction score
29
Be Passive Like the Mare

It's all an aggravating situation that continues to haunt me so today I asked the YiChing if I went forward with a plan to provide a better explanation, how would that be viewed? The casting I received was: Hex 2.1.3.6 becoming Hex 22. This doesn't look promising, and I take it I should just keep my mouth shut and live with what I've said already.
You are approaching it wanting to "beautify" what happened (H22), but instead you should stay passive (H2) and be led by the circumstances, like the mare.

In line 1, you see that the situation has not yet solidified but is clearly headed towards being frozen. Yet all you can do is read the signs at this point, it seems. Line 4 shows another aspect of your inability to act; the true situation is hidden from you.

Line 3 may be more personal, something about your inner character, and that you may have had good reason for doing what you did. It is small satisfaction that you are coming from an honorable place and that isn't helping the situation.

Tiger

 

arabella

visitor
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
1,668
Reaction score
51
Much appreciated

Tiger in the Boat, you've reflected back the initial impression I'd had that silence is the only way to go -- and even stronger negativity than I'd picked up, since I hadn't seen the implication of a background feature in the situation that I don't know about. Do you have any impression what the hidden feature might be?

I suppose, at least for now, there's nothing I can do. I don't get anything from these lines either that there will be some future opportunity to right this, which is really discouraging.
 

rosada

visitor
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
8,949
Reaction score
2,044
Tricky!

Ordinarily I would read hexagram 2 as recommending not doing anything, but it changes to hexagram 22. Grace - which says this method only works in certain instances, and that "the superior man dare not decide controversial issues in this way."

22. Grace reminds me of the phrase, "By the grace of God." Perhaps you can do some sort of prayer, healing meditation that would effect the situation.

rosada
 

willowfox

Inactive
Joined
Jun 18, 2006
Messages
5,530
Reaction score
107
This to me says talk to them, explain to them the circumstances, and thus clear up the misunderstanding, it so easy.

Line 2.1 indicates that the issue will get progressively worse unless you do something about it soon.

Line 2.3 Is about completing a task, therefore it indicates the need to say your piece.

Line 2.6 This is a warning not to remain aloof but to be cooperative and helpful, so as not to antagonize your friend.

Hex 22 Indicates the need to enlighten your friend over this rather "minor" issue, you need to "beautify" the relationship once again by clearing this matter up. Its about beauty and good manners by revealing to them you own inner beauty.
 

arabella

visitor
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
1,668
Reaction score
51
Wow. What a diversity of ideas here and I see where everybody is coming from -- so what a continuing dilemma. I'm doing what you have recommended now Rosada. I've been praying very hard about all of this. My fear tells me exactly what Tiger in the Boat is saying is dead on; and hope tells me that Willow Fox is absolutely right. Maybe the Yi is throwing it all back at me, because all of these interpretations seem completely possible -- depending on how the individual on the other side perceives what I am doing/saying. So where's the tie-breaker that clinches the decision here? I know in my heart I don't dare make another faux pas like I already have.
 

willowfox

Inactive
Joined
Jun 18, 2006
Messages
5,530
Reaction score
107
I asked the YiChing if I went forward with a plan to provide a better explanation, how would that be viewed?


Remember your question, then look at your answer again, look at Hex 22, its about enlightenment, grace and beauty.

Therefore, the other person would think that your response would be lovely, a well mannered action in order to clear the air.

That would be the right thing to do for a friend.
 

peter2610

visitor
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
410
Reaction score
24
Hex 2,1,3,6 > 22

Hi Arabella,

I would go along with most of the advice you've already received on this but with perhaps just one or two differences in emphasis. Hex 2 is suggesting a passive approach and the idea of following, rather than initiating, events - 'If the superior man undertakes something and tries to lead, he goes astray; but if he follows, he finds guidance.'

Line 1 is urging you to notice and check the first signs of unease - in your perception of the situation. IMO, this line is unlikely to be urging you to intervene externally as that would not really be consistent with the meaning of Hex 2, K'un. The Fan Yao for this line - Hex 24,1 - is urging you to return (to a correct perception) from a short distance, before your thinking develops into a causal event. This line isn't saying that you have misunderstood the situation with your friend, it is simply suggesting that you pull back from dwelling on any mistakes and return from any thoughts of intervention.

Line 3 - 'Hidden lines. One is able to remain persevering. If by chance you are in the service of a king, seek not works, but bring to completion.' Again, this suggests the idea of non intervention and quiet perseverance as unseen adjustments take place within the relationship. Carol Anthony's commentary on this line seems to be particularly relevant - 'We should not be concerned with whether someone will like or dislike what we say... but whether what we say is sincere, modest and essential... This line also has to do with times when an eclipse develops in our influence with others. When this happens we should not be offended or shaken, but accept it as part of the learning process.'
The Zhi Gua for this line Hex 15, Ch'ien, Modesty, also supports the idea of not seeking to influence the other person, even if you did make an unintentional mistake your truth as a person remains and does need to be justified to others.

Top yin has reached the end of the Dao of yin and seeks to act with the force of yang. This one is recalcitrant and refuses to abide within the modest role of yin, hence it seeks to initiate action. It suggests that the urge to intervene must be considerable and not at all easy to contain, but the warning is clear. The Zhi Gua for this line represents the potential danger of splitting from the right direction and the possibility of a split in your relationship.

Hex 22, Pi - Clarity within, firm restraint without. To see one's true position here and contain oneself appropriately in accordance with circumstances enhances one's character with grace.

Peter
 

willowfox

Inactive
Joined
Jun 18, 2006
Messages
5,530
Reaction score
107
Hex 2 is suggesting a passive approach and the idea of following, rather than initiating, events - 'If the superior man undertakes something and tries to lead, he goes astray; but if he follows, he finds guidance.'



Hex 22, Pi - Clarity within, firm restraint without. To see one's true position here and contain oneself appropriately in accordance with circumstances enhances one's character with grace.

Peter


She is not trying to lead, as she has come here seeking guidance and the guidance is in the lines themselves. Hex 2 is the receptive but it doesn't say to do nothing as she is the one that made the "mistake", so it not down to her friend to do anything but it is down to her to find a nonconfrontational way to explain her side of the issue clearly. The horse is a devoted creature and this hex talks about "seeking" friends, in this case to offer a humble explanation only. She only wants to do this in a gentle and polite way, to bring peace.

Hex 22 To beautify the situation brings success, and in small matters it is beneficial to do something about the problem.


But the question was "how her friend would see the attempt?" Hex 22 Beautiful.
 

pocossin

visitor
Joined
Feb 7, 1970
Messages
4,521
Reaction score
101
Should I provide a better explanation?
2.1.3.6 > 22
☷ ☶
☷ ☲


Hexagram pictures: land and horse, suggesting the contentment of a horse grazing in a pasture. The mare of 2 with the horse of 22 (explicit in line 4) is another auspicious accord.

Overall appraisal: woman to woman (☷ + ☷) talk leads to graciousness. (I am not making a gender assumption.)

Text:

2J: If the superior man undertakes something and tries to lead,
He goes astray;

Do not bring this up out of the blue but wait for an opening.

2I:
Thus the superior man who has breadth of character
Carries the outer world.

Auspicious for restoring intimacy.

2.1
When there is hoarfrost underfoot,
Solid ice is not far off.

Do not delay until the ice between you and your friend becomes solid.

2.3
Hidden lines.
One is able to remain persevering.

Your friend may be responding to a bad report that you know nothing about.

2.6
Dragons fight in the meadow.
Their blood is black and yellow.

This "black" is xuan, another suggestion of hidden influence. Your friend is inwardly conflicted.
 
Last edited:

arabella

visitor
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
1,668
Reaction score
51
I'm really in a quandry here, the difference in perception is so completely opposite from one reading to the next. If it weren't so important to me, I'd just resign myself to it because the thought of making yet another bad mistake is almost too overwhelming right now, particularly since the "do it" and "don't do it" responses are split just about down the middle.

What clarifying question could I ask? What kind of query would crack the case? Also, I'm really concerned about this "other" report or opinion the person has heard. I can't imagine what that would be either since what we've talked about I never discuss with anybody.
 

pocossin

visitor
Joined
Feb 7, 1970
Messages
4,521
Reaction score
101
I'm really in a quandry here, the difference in perception is so completely opposite from one reading to the next. If it weren't so important to me, I'd just resign myself to it because the thought of making yet another bad mistake is almost too overwhelming right now, particularly since the "do it" and "don't do it" responses are split just about down the middle.

The fearful see fear, the cheerful see cheer. Our orientation toward the world colors everything we see and do.

What clarifying question could I ask? What kind of query would crack the case? Also, I'm really concerned about this "other" report or opinion the person has heard. I can't imagine what that would be either since what we've talked about I never discuss with anybody.

You mean what query would bring us diverse individualists to a consensus? :) I suggest you pick the approach that accords with your nature. In my opinion it doesn't matter what anyone else has heard or imagined -- I think you aim to correct a false impression. Just do your best and hope for the best.
 

peter2610

visitor
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
410
Reaction score
24
Follow-up questions

Tom's right Arabella, in the end, as with any reading, you've just got to go with whatever resonates most clearly with your own nature. Only you can fully evaluate the depth and full content of the situation. Even if it doesn't go as you might wish, it's not wasted.

What clarifying question could I ask? What kind of query would crack the case?

You might try something along the lines of - 'Should I go ahead and approach XXX in order to discuss the matter of ABC?'

or

'How should I proceed with regards to discussing ABC with XXX?'

Hope this helps. Peter

PS: Can someone PLEASE let me know how to include the author's name when using the 'quote' function. Please send me a PM or, if Arabella doesn't mind, please enter a short post in this thread. I've searched through the help sections but still can't figure it out. Many thanks.
 

gato

visitor
Joined
Jan 11, 2010
Messages
620
Reaction score
6
What clarifying question could I ask? What kind of query would crack the case? Also, I'm really concerned about this "other" report or opinion the person has heard. I can't imagine what that would be either since what we've talked about I never discuss with anybody.

ever tried conversational i-ching ? if not give it a try... write down the questions and answers for later review and don't bother if you don't understand just keep asking until you have a clear view.

sometimes works wonders
 

arabella

visitor
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
1,668
Reaction score
51
Thanks one and all friends. What a brilliant response -- I would call it a tour de force. Every bit of your time and help is dearly appreciated. Surely with all this wonderful advice I can do something sensible.

Please, anyone, feel free to answer Peter's query on using the quote function. I don't understand it myself, maybe others don't either.
 

gato

visitor
Joined
Jan 11, 2010
Messages
620
Reaction score
6
PS: Can someone PLEASE let me know how to include the author's name when using the 'quote' function. Please send me a PM or, if Arabella doesn't mind, please enter a short post in this thread. I've searched through the help sections but still can't figure it out. Many thanks.

QUOTE=peter2610 (QUOTE=username - within [] )

peter2610 said:
 

arabella

visitor
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
1,668
Reaction score
51
Irresistible Curiosity

I couldn't ignore it. I had to ask what this hidden "feature" of the situation is that came up in two of the interpretations of my earlier question. I just had to know what is in this situation that I'm not aware of or am missing as a factor.

My question of the Yi Ching: What element of this situation don't I know about?

The answer: Hexagram 31, Judgement. Right. I was expecting something about spy rings or eavesdropping equipment hidden in the walls. Hex 31.

This is about affection then? Of course I have affection for this person or I wouldn't be so disturbed by the situation. Does this imply that affection is reciprocated? If so, how does that influence whether I give an apology for my hair-brained statements -- or not?
 

rosada

visitor
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
8,949
Reaction score
2,044
Hi Arabella,
I just was noticing in your original question you asked, "If I went forward with a plan..." I'm wondering if you actually had a plan in mind at the time or if you were just thinking that if the response were positive you would then come up with the plan? Cause both 2 and 22 sound like something that is kinda vague... I mean, if I asked the I Ching, "What would my husband think if I came up with a plan to make us a million dollars?" and got 2 > 22 I'd see it as the I Ching saying, "Uh, yeah, he would be Receptive to such a Lovely Idea." But then I'd still have to come up with the idea. Likewise if you didn't actually already have the plan in mind for explaining your actions better to your friend, I think the I Ching is saying your friend isn't opposed to hearing what you have to say, she would be Receptive to some new explanation, but just exactly what is it you plan to say? It's like the devil is in the details/lines which seem to me to be saying that as you don't have a plan yet, saying anything at this point would only make matters worse. So for now,

2.1 You're aware of the chill, but...
2.3 Don't bring it up unless she does.
2.6 If she does bring it up, respond, but the less said the better.

And meanwhile as I suggested earlier, hexagram 2 and 22 makes me think you can be silently praying, visualizing etc, and you may find a clear plan of what to say and a chance to say it all come in divine timing.

I think 31 is a very positive omen that your friend is wanting the friendship to continue.
rosada
 
Last edited:

tigerintheboat

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 22, 2006
Messages
1,612
Reaction score
29
Line 6

Tiger in the Boat, you've reflected back the initial impression I'd had that silence is the only way to go -- and even stronger negativity than I'd picked up, since I hadn't seen the implication of a background feature in the situation that I don't know about. Do you have any impression what the hidden feature might be?
Arabella, I don't know how, but I thought you had Line 4 instead of Line 6. Line 4 is where the hidden idea comes from. Apologies for the error.

You could make the argument, as WillowFox did, that Line 1 implies that the situation is not hardened but is getting there and therefore you should act swiftly. And Line 3 could be taken as an exhortation to go out and get this done, but without taking credit for the reconciliation. Let your friend think that they did it. That is "working for the lord."

But Line 6....Line 6 is an about an unresolved and un-winnable war; Both parties are bleeding. It is not an encouraging sign that the plan you asked about would bring about a peaceful reconciliation.

Sincerely,

Tiger
 

arabella

visitor
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
1,668
Reaction score
51
Thanks Rosada. My idea for explaining myself better was to first write everything out that I wanted to say [since I'd been so surprised last time and rattled on in random order with huge pieces missing]. I thought I could either send what I wrote as a letter of apology or have a cup of coffee together and suggest that I would read this letter, or read key parts and fill in the rest. The reason for having written this was that I am afraid of leaving something out or saying something backwards and this way I have it down exactly. So that was the idea I was enquiring about.

Hex 31 isn't what I expected. I don't have the feeling our friendship is over, but it's altered. I guess this is saying we have a basis to be back where we were? As you suggest, I am still praying -- that the right thing to do will become more obvious so that I can straighten things out.
 

arabella

visitor
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
1,668
Reaction score
51
Thanks for the re-evaluation Tiger. Willow Fox's idea is in many ways sound to me. The question is probably the timing of when to speak, as Rosada has said. Pray on it and maybe it will come clear WHEN.

The strange 2.6 line, I believe, could mean that no matter what I say, I'm not going to remove all of this person's pain because there's a part of it that has nothing to do with me or anything I said. There's some damage that predates our friendship and I can't fix it. But we both know that and I'm sure I'm not being blamed for that part either.
 

arabella

visitor
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
1,668
Reaction score
51
After meditating on this overnight and all day today I've sent the letter. I sent it because this is the way I am, how I think I should behave. Anything else might be safer, but this is what seems right to me. Guess I'll just have to live with the consequences -- which, come to think of it, I was living with consequences already for having acted OUT of character. At least with these consequences I will have been IN character. I'll let you know what happens.
 
Last edited:

arabella

visitor
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
1,668
Reaction score
51
Hello there friends. Just to let you know, I have gotten a response to my letter, extremely understanding and personable. I would say that the usual tone of friendship is restored. I want to be sure to record the outcome for those who contributed to the interpretation, and for posterity who may be consulting the archives. In this situation at least, a direct approach and explanation of what I had wanted to say was the right thing to do. Meditating first and writing a coherent letter was important as well. I think writing a letter was actually beneficial in this instance, because it gave me a chance to be precise in what I said, and also gave my friend a chance to absorb my explanation and reply after thinking it over. So this has worked out well for both of us. Again, thanks to all who helped.
 

willowfox

Inactive
Joined
Jun 18, 2006
Messages
5,530
Reaction score
107
There we go, problem solved, so easy to do, and now your friend has "pardoned your mistake and forgiven your apparent misdeed".

Now you have Hex 22 in all its glory, that inner beauty because you were mindful enough to be well mannered and explain.
 

rosada

visitor
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
8,949
Reaction score
2,044
Thank you so much for sharing this episode with us Arabella. Hexagram 2 is not an easy one for me to understand and I think I now have a better handle on it. I'm seeing the whole hexagram as being about recognizing a potential problem and the question if anything should actually be done or if one should just let nature take it's course.

Interesting how hex.2 is all about finding friends and finding guidance. The discussion here attracted an unusually wide variety of perspectives from friends attempting to offer guidance.

2.1
When there is hoarfrost underfoot,
Solid ice is not far off.

There appears to be a problem brewing.

2.2
Straight, square, great,
Without purpose,
Yet nothing remains unfurthered.

Okay, things have developed a bit and we see the situation more clearly.
I think one could call this the Hitting Rock Bottom line.

2.3
Hidden lines.
One is able to remain persevering.
If by chance one is in service to a king,
Seek not works, but bring to completion.

It isn't time to take action yet, plans, solutions, need to mature.
Or if by chance the right action to take is obvious it should be done so as to not attract attention or create more problems.

2.4
A tied up sack. No blame, no praise.

Don't get involved?
Ignore the problem?
Let nature take it's course?

2.5
A yellow under garment brings supreme good fortune.

Seems to suggest a very natural solution occurs.

2.6
Dragons fight in the meadow.
Their blood is yellow and black.

This tricky line is the one that captured my attention for this whole post. Is it referring to the misunderstanding between the two friends?
Or the question as to whether one should take action or let sleeping dogs lie? As it's the sixth line and therefore outside the body of Hexagram 2 it suggests the time of being Receptive is past, or maybe that one simply can't benefit anymore from just being passive, so urge to take action even if it's uncertain what to do? Interesting that the next line in the sequence of the hexagrams is 3.1 Hesitation and hindrance, again suggesting the uncertainty.

Anyway, so glad your friendship is back on track!
Best wishes,
rosada
 
Last edited:

arabella

visitor
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
1,668
Reaction score
51
Yes, the 2.6 line was the one that got me too. Was I causing more problems to take the situation further, was there going to be emotional "blood" spilt? I think though the 2.6 was the blood already on the floor, and the idea maybe that there were issues I wasn't part of, that I couldn't solve. That is also true. Beforehand, as well, I tried Gato's method of a Yi conversation, just casting and casting on question after question to try to get a real sense of what was going on. Almost all the castings were positive to go ahead, connect, explain, expect to reestablish the old tie. I think it was Pocossin who said you get what you expect? Anyway, I expected to heal this problem, and it is healed. In looking back at the readings, I think Willow Fox's observation that Hex 2 invites you to engage, get in and solve the problem, is accurate. It's an invitation. And the 2.1 in this situation was to get going before the "hoarfrost" had set in, which was the feeling I had that was inspiring me. As I pondered what to do, things were going downhill -- and obviously they didn't need to.
 
Last edited:

Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom

Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).

Top