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Taking the first big step... 28.1.4 -> 5

melbalini

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Hello... this is my first time posting here, but I have been reading your messages for a long time now.

I have been working in University administration... something to pay the bills until I can figure out how to proceed. I'm originally from Florida, and moved to Chicago for a while to take a break and work.

For nearly a year now, I have been making strides to start my own business... Move back to Florida, and really work hard to get the business off the ground. (I have a great partnership with my best friend who is also extremely committed to the business.)

I found a place to live, I think, so that I can move down there this summer (at the end of July), and I did a reading to see what would come of this move...

I pulled 28. Preponderance of the Great, with changing lines 1 and 4 (leading to 5. Waiting- Nourishment).

Obviously, patience is recommended here... The business is not going to take off as quickly as I'd like it to (there's obviously no way to FORCE it into existence), but... It does look hopeful that the move will lead to a reassured sense of inevitability of success -- even if I have to wait.

I'm not entirely clear, though, what 28 is telling me. Any thoughts? Recommendations?
 

melbalini

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By the way, I have had a lot of experience with tarot, and I am somewhat of a novice with the IC. If any of you can draw parallels between my reading here and archetypes of the tarot, I would be exceedingly grateful!
 

cal val

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Hi Melbalini...

Are you familiary with the Osho Zen deck by Ma Deva Padma? She also created a deck of 64 cards for the YiJing called the Dao Oracle which is just as stunning and evocative as the Osho Zen deck. And she has devised some clever and effective ways to use the cards. http://www.embraceart.com/tao_oracle.htm. I think you might enjoy it.

The card for 28 Excess shows a man walking bent over from the weight of several big boulders on his back.

A year ago I made a move from a place I did not want to be on the East coast back to my home, Los Angeles. I wanted to make the move a long time before I finally did, but the Yi told me to wait... until it was time, and then they said GO! I'm so glad I listened. I returned just as a wonderful opportunity opened up for me here.

Whenever I get 28 to 5, I know the Yi is telling me that if I do whatever it is I'm telling them I want to I will create unnecessary pressures for myself and to wait instead.

Love,

Val
 

dobro p

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"I did a reading to see what would come of this move...

I pulled 28. Preponderance of the Great, with changing lines 1 and 4"

If the oracle's answering your question directly, then it's saying something like: "Going completely beyond your present situation will be both without fault and fortunate. You'll have to offer something of yourself in this situation, and it will provide you with what you need, so don't reach for more than that. Wait for it."

If the oracle is addressing you now instead, it's saying something like: "Going beyond where you are now? Wait for it."
 

melbalini

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I was not asking whether moving was a good idea. I asked specifically what to expect from the move I am making.

Changing line 4:
"The ridgepole is braced. Good fortune. If there are ulterior motives, it is humiliating."

What do you think this speaks of?
Would it address the building of my business and the way that I build it? Or... if not... if it's speaking directly to the question, what does this mean in practical terms... that simply deal with my environment when I arrive?
 

hilary

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'Expect 28' means 'expect stress - expect to be on the verge of overload'. 28 uses the strength you built up in the Nourishing framework of Hexagram 27 - sounds like paid employment - to go way beyond that framework. Have a look at the Image of 28: it talks very directly about what you have in mind.

The moving lines go one step beyond 'what to expect' in the direction of 'what you need to deal with it'. Line 1 suggests providing a lot of gentle attention and support, especially in decision-making. Line 4 is both reassurance that you can do this, and a warning not to make it any more demanding than it has to be. Make sure, for instance, that you're not under financial strain, moving house, starting a business, and negotiating the details of a business partnership all at once...
 

cal val

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Hi Melbalini...

Dobro made a very important distinction in his post when he said, "If the oracle's answering your question directly..." It's been my experience that the Yi often does not tell me what I want to know but tells me what I need to know instead.

I want to be clear here that I am not interpreting your reading for you... "telling" you what the Yi is saying... as if I knew... because it has become abundantly clear to me through my interaction with this forum that communication with the Yi is a very personal thing. I have observed that many of the interpretations given for others here have been based on personal experience or personal understanding without the experience, and it's different for everyone. As well as I understand what the Yi is saying to ME these days (which is not by any means complete understanding... I'm still learning... apparently always will be) and as much as I'm benefitting from their counsel, I don't feel qualified to interpret for others. Therefore, as I've done here and in my last post to you, when it comes to readings for others, I only share my experiences any more. They're mine. I own them, but if you or anyone can benefit from them... yay hurray!

Love,

Val
 

bradford_h

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Hi Melbalini-
Just a note-
"ulterior motives" does not exist in the original, but is a translator's artifact.
"You tuo lin" is more simply translated:
Were there more (or were things different), (then) insufficient
(were there more of a load or surcharge than this, then the beam might not be enough to carry the load).
Given this, Hilary's interpretation is very good.
 

melbalini

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Thanks, Val...

Like I said, I'm in the introductory phases of learning the nuances of this oracle. With tarot, in my experience, the question is answered EXACTLY as I ask it... So my intention, my mindset, my question had to be perfectly formulated ahead of time so that I knew what the cards were referring to. I often made the mistake of using certain cards that fell to answer the question I wanted them to answer, rather than the one that I actually asked (a pretty typical mistake for anyone starting out to make), and learned the hard way about the importance of phrasing the question correctly. Perhaps this oracle is different, but I have gone into it assuming that it speaks directly to the questions I ask. Perhaps that is a mistake here.

Either way, though, it seems that, even if 28 WAS a recommendation of action... trying to "convince" me that waiting was better than not-waiting... I will obviously encounter some stress upon arrival.I anticipate that the next few months will be rather difficult for me (feeling regret about leaving a perfectly stable and good job, etc.), I'll be faced with important decisions regarding the business, and I'll be taking on the challenge of trying to survive while concurrently learning as much as I can about the endeavour I'm taking on.

I would not anticipate anything less than a great deal of stress from this situation -- and perhaps this reading is simply confirming my assumptions, and suggesting that I take things slowly... Not try to do everything at once.

Thanks for all of your input!
 

hilary

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<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

Perhaps this oracle is different, but I have gone into it assuming that it speaks directly to the questions I ask. Perhaps that is a mistake here.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
No, you're absolutely right. I don't think you can have much of a conversation with an oracle without that assumption. Once in a blue moon, Yi will have something more important to talk about, of course. But the rule of thumb is that your question gets answered - and, just like you said, that changing horses mid-stream is not good.

Funny, I never thought this was so important with tarot. Well, well...
 

dobro p

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Melbalini -

"Changing line 4: "The ridgepole is braced. Good fortune. If there are ulterior motives, it is humiliating."


I don't translate it that way. My reading is:

"Ridgepole high. Fortunate. Having more distress."


Like Hilary says, 28 means stress. It means going beyond the normal, both in terms of stress and how to deal with the situation. 28 is a perfect image also of moving from one place to another, cuz you're going well beyond where you are now.


"What do you think this speaks of?"

I think it's talking about your capacity to handle the stress of the move and set up the business - it's saying you can do it. But there's an element of meaning in this line that talks about being satisfied with having enough and not reaching for more, cuz if you reach for more, it'll involve distress at the least, possibly shame.


"Would it address the building of my business and the way that I build it?"

Yes, in the way I described above.

Also, because of your attitude about expecting the oracle to answer your question directly when you consulted it, I think what you drew was probably a direct answer to your question. I think that Hilary's pretty right about the 'blue moon' scenario. That scenario arises when the result you get simply does not compute, no matter how many times or from how many angles you examine it - then you have to consider the possibility of the oracle trying to redirect your attention. But that isn't the case with your consulation - what you drew resonated really strongly with the situation that your question addressed.

But having said all that, I think the Yi isn't telling you 'what to expect' as much as 'how to handle the situation' you're enquiring about.



Hilary - you're a light year ahead of me with the oracle (and that's just what I can see...there's probably more). I mean, a year isn't *that* big a gap to close... I mean, if you're travelling at the speed of light lol.
 

cal val

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Good morning Melbalini!

Fortunately, for me... as Hilary can attest to, having watched the experience I've had with the Yi since joining this forum... the Yi tells me what I need to know rather than what I want to know much more often than every blue moon. Blue moons come how often? hmmmm about seven times every 19 years... give or take. Oh yeah... much more often. Actually the Yi shouts something other than the answer I want at me much more often than once in a blue moon. There are threads woven throughout this forum which illustrate that fact... like the 50 to 8 thread for example. But that's just me. Like I said, everyone is different... and everyone's relationship with the Yi is different. Admittedly, mine has been kind of unusual these last couple of years for reasons I won't go into here. The story's too long, and there's too many people here who have read it already. At any rate, it's all good, and that's all that matters to me. So...

That said... last night and this morning was one of the times my questions were ignored while the Yi shouted something else at me. I don't get it, and I'm suspecting I'd better get it soon because this is the third or fourth in the last few months they've shouted this same thing at me. So...

I started a thread here >>>-----> http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/messages/92/4471.html?1116605622, and I would really appreciate all the help I can get.

Thanks!

Love,

Val
 
D

demitramn

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<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

I was not asking whether moving was a good idea. I asked specifically what to expect from the move I am making.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Hi Melbalini,

Of all the tarot cards, the ones that seem to me to be closest to your I Ching cast would be the 10 of wands coupled with the Temperance card. Perhaps you can unload some of the heavy burdens of this latest move you've made by learning to delegate more of the work to others and basically give it all time to work out. Be patient, allow everything to slowly settle down into a new semblance of home but make sure you don't try to shoulder all the burden yourself - make sure your business partner is carrying their fair share of the load.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

Perhaps this oracle is different, but I have gone into it assuming that it speaks directly to the questions I ask. Perhaps that is a mistake here.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Tarot being my first language of divination, this is what I learned as well; to formulate my questions very clearly before I begin. I have continued applying this principle to my practice of the I Ching, and it pretty much works the same way for me every time. Perhaps in the very beginning of learning to work with the cards I got responses that didn't apply to my questions. However, these days it only happens when I am working with a client who is still having trouble clearing their mind and focusing on one thing at a time.

(Something extra and hopefully of interest to you)-->> In the past, I have put both systems of divination to work for me regarding same-questions-asked. From these experiences, I have never found my readings to ever be informing me about a given situation in exactly the same way. So for instance, I can't ask the I Ching, and then ask the cards too, and hope to get a parallel reading of sorts. It just never happens that way. It would seem that a dialogue begins with whichever system I choose to start with, and the dialogue then continues on into the other one. For instance, even if I present the exact same question to both systems back-to-back, the first system I use turns out to represent the beginning of the dialogue and the next system simply takes over where the other one left off. As is to say, "well... since I already told you about ABC when we were talking Tarot, I'll tell you about XYZ now, though our chat continues on in I Ching."

Hope this helps,
Demitra
 

dobro p

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Demitra - about using two oracles, and the result not being the same: my understanding is that as soon as you consult an oracle and get an answer, it changes the situation. Not only that, but the very act of consulting a second oracle on the same question changes the situation as well. So, results are going to be different.

I think it's similar to what some of last century's physicists said about how the very fact of a scientific phenomenon being observed by scientists in an experimental situation changed the outcome of the experiment.
 

anita

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Dobro,

That's fascinating - asking the oracle changes the outcome. And a scary thought too. Now, how is that possible, and does asking the Yi (or the tarot) make for a negative outcome? If it does change the outcome, how come things turn out as predicted by the oracle? Kindly enlighten.

Best for your Quest
Anita
 

dobro p

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I don't think it makes for a negative outcome, but I think it changes the contour of the situation. Those scientists I mentioned in my previous post said that the simple, bare fact of observing something changes what happens, and not just by the simple addition of an observer. I can't explain it, but I believe it. I think consciousness changes situations. And when consciousness is a level higher, when it becomes awareness, it changes things even more. Plus, the Yi responds to this, so if the Yi gives you an answer to a question, and you're not satisfied with that and ask the question again, either of the Yi or another oracle, then the Yi (or the other oracle) factors your dissatisfaction into the equation and gives you a different result. Depending on your inclinations, you could interpret this either as the Yi saying to you: "Oh ye of little faith..." (a rebuke, in other words), or you could interpret it as the Yi saying to you: "Okay, you didn't take advantage of the first thing I said to you; but I'm patient, so how about *this* bit of information? Can you take this one on board?"

That's why I'm terribly impressed when somebody asks questions about a situation, and they keep getting the same result again and again. It's as if the intelligence behind the Yi (I believe there's an intelligence behind what the oracle 'gives' people) has decided not to be flexible with you, but to insist that you attend to the first message.

You also asked this: "If it does change the outcome, how come things turn out as predicted by the oracle?"

I think we'd have to talk about this a long time, and make our understanding of what we meant really clear to each other before we could talk about this intelligently. I'm not sure what you mean by outcome - do you mean the answer that the Yi gives to a question, or do you mean how events unfold? Also, I don't think that the Yi 'predicts' events. I think that maybe about a third of the time, it talks of probable futures based on the lay of the land right now; a third of the time, it talks about the non-evident contours of the situation right now, the contours you're not seeing clearly; and I also think that the Yi talks about recent events in order to draw your attention to something you can learn. At least, that's my experience of it. (In fact, until recently, the Yi predominantly drew my attention to recent events - almost as if it was helping me or training me to see the connection between the hexes/lines and the situations they described; only recently has the oracle started giving me information about what's to come in the near future.)

"Kindly enlighten."

I can't. But I'm happy to speculate.


Make any sense? Or is it just me being a motormouth again?
 

cal val

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Dobro...

How do you edit posts that have already posted? I haven't figured it out yet with this new program.

Thanks.

Love,

Val

Thank you Dobro! And here I am editing my post per your instructions.
 

dobro p

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Edit Profile>login>Preferences

Tick the 'show list of my most recent posts to edit my profile' box.

Voila!
 

cal val

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Dobro...

Please see my edited post above. Thanks again!

Love,

Val
 

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