"Talking" too much with Yi? 31.4.6 to 53

[flashlight]

Happy New Year everyone! ompom:

I've gotten into the habit (which feels both peaceful and learning) to spend an hour or so talking with the Yi in the morning as I enjoy my coffee and ease into my day.

I know it is recommended to not toss too much, to focus and meditate on what one wants to ask and take the time to let the reading sink in in order to benefit from it fully. And I do do that too.

But sometimes in the morning, I'll ask 4-5 questions - not in rapid fire succession, I do take the time to go through the hex and lines with care (looking at the forum posts, Li Se, Bradford's book and so on) and most of the time the insights make sense.

So I was wondering if Yi thought I was having too many conversations with it, and asked. Yi responded with 31.4.6 to 53.

Seems like the Yi thinks it is OK -- 31.4: be spontaneous, share your thoughts but 31.6 make sure your words (questions) come from your spirit, support your creativity and speak your own truth.

Wise ones, do you agree the Yi seems to think it's OK?

May 2014 bring all of you peace, joy and harmony :hugs:

 

[ginnie]

31.4 says your thoughts go to and fro and this seems to indicate greater than average mental activity. That can be productive or it can be from confusion. I think 31.6 is an indication that you "talk" too much. That would have to be self-talk or thoughts you share with Yi, as I don't think you're speaking out loud! There is about line 6 the idea that you are indulging in idle chatter. There is no hint of harm in either line.

 

[sooo]

Before reading Ginnie's response I was going to respond similarly with, it depends on what your discussions are about. I think it also depends on the kind of energy you have at the time as well as the degree of comprehension, which, for me are typically tied closely together.

I sometimes have similar conversations with Yi, also typically in the morning over coffee. But if feeling desperation or anxiety, unless or until that's settled down, I'll only become more entangled, which is counterproductive. Like the old sayings: talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words.

 

[blue_angel]

Hi,

I agree with both Ginnie and Sooo, and I don't know if what I say will really add to it or help. Here is how I read it...

Line (4) your mind is going in circles when you do this leading you further away from clarity or enlightenment.

Line (6)- yes, talk with Iching but use your intuition and have faith in yourself.

(53)- you are making progress, step by step, and (31)- by following your intuition, using the guidance of Iching, and having faith, you will make a good connection.

Blue_Angel

 

[Tim K]

Everyone has their own way of working with the oracle, how can you impose limits on such a personal activity? ) Take as much time as you feel is right.

Hex 31 speaks of being open to advice, get rid of all the prejudice in your mind, be receptive.

Line 4: Be constant in your line of questioning, research and inquire about one problem at a time.
Line 6: Then don't just walk away, but implement the advice that you received into the real life.

That will gradually lead to progress in your life, 53.
Also by having such conversations with Yi in a daily manner you constantly are improving your skill and connection with it.

Please watch this video from an experienced Yi teacher, Nana Akosua Baakan Agyiriwah, I think she has a good answer for your question.
[video=youtube;nTTfV_5PVl8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTTfV_5PVl8#t=272[/video]

You can skip to 4:30.

 

[Tim K]

And another very helpful video of her
[video=youtube;nq8Xysq-4VM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq8Xysq-4VM#t=383[/video]
You can skip to 6:30

I would recommend to watch all of her videos of course

 

[Trojina]

I keep trying to listen to Nana.....but she speaks so slowly I get too bored to listen. She needs to speak at a normal pace doesn't she. I would die of frustration trying to listen to 5 minutes of it....but it's probably for beginners anyway but I still thought I'd see what she says but she talks at a snails pace so haltingly. She needs some coffee or speed or something to wake up

 

[Trojina]

Happy New Year everyone! ompom:

I've gotten into the habit (which feels both peaceful and learning) to spend an hour or so talking with the Yi in the morning as I enjoy my coffee and ease into my day.

I know it is recommended to not toss too much, to focus and meditate on what one wants to ask and take the time to let the reading sink in in order to benefit from it fully. And I do do that too.

But sometimes in the morning, I'll ask 4-5 questions - not in rapid fire succession, I do take the time to go through the hex and lines with care (looking at the forum posts, Li Se, Bradford's book and so on) and most of the time the insights make sense.

So I was wondering if Yi thought I was having too many conversations with it, and asked. Yi responded with 31.4.6 to 53.

Seems like the Yi thinks it is OK -- 31.4: be spontaneous, share your thoughts but 31.6 make sure your words (questions) come from your spirit, support your creativity and speak your own truth.

Wise ones, do you agree the Yi seems to think it's OK?

May 2014 bring all of you peace, joy and harmony :hugs:

I find it quite a humorous answer, like a teacher saying "yeah you are a chatterbox (31.6) but via all that real steady progress is being made (53) 31.4 is about needing to be a bit firmer in choices for yourself....I don't see it as about spontaneity but being undecided, easily influenced...advice being 'you make your choices, recognise your own power to make choices and outer things will follow.'


Actually I see the answer as saying that sometimes you don't actually need to bring all these questions to Yi, you can decide (31.4) and also a lot of it is just chatter (31.6) but it doesn't matter because it all serves your gradual development (53). I find it humorous in a kindly fond way ....like a teacher a child runs to to share everything and ask everything. The teacher might feign exasperation with the chattering but also they are fond of you and know through it you progress.

So yes I think it's okay, I even think I can hear the tone of the answer which I hear as a little playful and teasing in a fond kind of way. Yes I anthropomorphise but Yi does have much humour. It seems olay to me, the only thing you might consider is that you have more power in choices than you think. 31.4 is a bit of a call to make your own mind up

 

[bradford]

There's a difference between trying to get fluent with the Yi as a language, or getting familiar with the images and metaphors, and just asking endless petty questions without taking the time to explore the responses in depth. The last one is the sign you should be studying something else. and the one that the Yi itself speaks out against in Gua 04. Lines 31.4 and 6 both point out a possible lack of depth in a less affectively involved approach, but the Zhi Gua suggests that something is being built up gradually.

 

[flashlight]

I keep trying to listen to Nana.....but she speaks so slowly I get too bored to listen. She needs to speak at a normal pace doesn't she. I would die of frustration trying to listen to 5 minutes of it....but it's probably for beginners anyway but I still thought I'd see what she says but she talks at a snails pace so haltingly. She needs some coffee or speed or something to wake up

Oh do I agree! Rhythm, tonality, nasality, and so on. Really tough to listen to her. She needs presentation coaching big time!

 

[flashlight]

Thank you Ginnie, Soo, Blue Angel, Ashteroid and Trojan for your responses. Sorry I'm coming back a bit late, but I had a power outage all of yesterday - it was kind of lovely to spend the day by candlelight, though it did get rather chilly!

I am most peaceful and centered in the morning - that wonderful time in a moment when one is awake but still is the softness of sleep state - and before one recalls the To Do list of the day. They are not idle, petty questions that go all over the map, but an effort to approach a question in different ways to get as much insight as possible. And I do take the time to explore the meaning in each one and I do think it helps me gain knowledge in how to use the Yi and interpret. For me to learn, things have to be concrete and relevant. I remember when I was a kid, and at school they went from teaching us "normal" math to "modern math". That's when they lost me - I couldn't fathom how the heck I could apply that later on in managing a budget, doing my tax returns etc LOL! Same with learning languages (and the Yi is one): studying vocabulary lists (hexes) in a vacuum, without being able to go out and engage using that vocabulary - it goes in one ear and out the other, little sticks in the brain cells.

Ashteroid, I'm sure Nana has valuable things to say - but I have a really hard time listening to her - I'm reacting like when hearing finger nails on a blackboard - not exactly the state one should be in when working with the yi!

Trojan, in fact I'm not that easily influenced. If head and stomach disagree on something, stomach (instincts, intuition) wins out even if analytical mind is saying no no no no no ! Sometimes that's good, sometimes not. Neptune though has been heavily present in my sky for a while, and we know what that planet can do. Sometimes Yi is a path or a tool that helps in a reality check for me. I agree with you though, sometimes the Yi is humorous and I do feel it chiding me every now and again - and funny enough, I like that, humor is a good way to connect too!

Now let's hope the power holds today! Oh how one has become dependent on such things!

 

[Tim K]

I would die of frustration trying to listen to 5 minutes of it

Oh do I agree! Rhythm, tonality, nasality, and so on. Really tough to listen to her. She needs presentation coaching big time!

I'm reacting like when hearing finger nails on a blackboard

This is Blasphemy! Outrageous! How dare you defy this heavenly teacher?

I don't know what you are talking about, Nana is a kind and funny teacher I wish she were my aunt or 3rd grandma. She speaks in a relaxed way, suited to the atmosphere of meditation and divination. Have you tried to listen while you brush your teeth and floss?

In order to improve my command of English I decided to take upon myself the task of transcribing her first video.

Nana Akosua Baakan:
There are different approaches about how to assign yin and yang to the sides of the coin.
One student had thought that he had inverted yin and yang sides (because someone told him that the assignment should be done the other way) and ran to re-ask all(30+) his questions.
But he ultimately got the same answers, pretty much the same story.

There is a spiritual nature to the Yi (Imagine group of Elders of the village),
it understands that you are novice, or have been working with it for a while, or you are very strong in the readings and have a good understanding of the images/judgement and lines.
So the response is based on the way you are.
That student didn't have to redo all his readings, but he didn't understand, and when he came out of it, he realized that he got an opportunity to see how Yi works and to create his own personal relationship with Yi.

How do you develop a personal relationship with Yi?
It's done by consistent pattern of consulting it, like any friend. If you never call them, never go see them never spend time with them, it will be a limited relationship.
However if you encounter them many many times, talk to them all day or once a week, or very very often, then the relationship with that friend develops ad grows.
The same is with Yi, if you will utilize it often.

There are definitely folks who will go to an extreme, use it all the time and ask any questions, all the way down to the very very tiny little situations in their lives.
"Can you ask too many questions? Can you ask too often? Can you annoy the oracle? Is there such a thing as a stupid question? I don't know what to ask."

It can be useful, when you use it like that even though it can be repetitive, it gives an idea of how Yi works.
And once you get used to that, you will actually find yourself consulting less and less.
But initially, because it is so amazing, people get excited and wanna use it over and over and over and over.
And since there is no one to tell you to stop, ha-ha, you may find yourself becoming obsessed with using it.

When you reach to the point of obsession, the oracle will begin to speak to you about your obsession.
It will express how important it is to be mindful, that the answers to your questions is there, but you must come to them in such a way where you are creating and developing your character and spirituality and all that.

Certain questions can be frivolous and don't necessarily require a consultation with Yi.
( Hex 4, Youthful Folly: Speaking to Elders may require you to listen/go within to gain knowledge before the answers make sense )

The oracle should be consulted in important situations, however at the beginning of the use of Yi, you may consult on various different situations that may not appear quite as important, but they are to you.

There is a reason why some people feel inclined to use Yi more often than others, whether they are novices or old-timers, it varies with each individual.
Yi functions as a pocket counselor, it gives you advice along the way, anytime anywhere you want.
As long as you create a proper environment around you, calm, peaceful and without distractions you can go for it.
Public bathrooms, train stations and bus stops are not very good for that.

Also there are some people who consider divination demonic and evil, and they may feel in some way about you divining.
So you must feel secure about your divination place, and if not - find a proper one.

I've seen couples start off together, asking all kinds of questions, coming up with ideas and answers together.
But once the personal relationship with Yi kicks in, they go to their personal quarters and ask personal questions that they don't necessarily want to share and discuss.

A lot of times when a group of people comes in to ask a question, Yi may specifically address one individual in that group, and not the entire group per se.
But it does give information for the entire group.

So the oracle as it being yin/yang, dealing with polarities, it does and it doesn’t, it does and it doesn’t, it does and it doesn’t.
Every hex has an inverse and vice versa.
Even in readings that you get you will find yourself moving in and out, and developing in a different way, just how the oracle is working for you and determining it for yourself.

Peace and blessings.

 

[flashlight]

"This is Blasphemy! Outrageous! How dare you defy this heavenly teacher?

I don't know what you are talking about, Nana is a kind and funny teacher I wish she were my aunt or 3rd grandma. She speaks in a relaxed way, suited to the atmosphere of meditation and divination. Have you tried to listen while you brush your teeth and floss? "

Sorry Ashteroid... Different strokes for different folks, no? Or else everyone would love heavy metal and rap, right?
I'm auditory and kinesthetic. That's how I learn. Tom Condon (The Changeworks) is soothing, relaxed and conducive to meditation (to me), Nana .. isn't!

But wow, what a gift from you to all of us, to transcribe all that! That's a lot of work! Many thanks :bows:

 

[Tim K]

Different strokes for different folks, no? Or else everyone would love heavy metal and rap, right?

Yes yes, just some role-playing of an evil wizard

The next video is about proper questions. I feel the need to re-watch her lessons because I have accumulated some experience and think that I can understand more now, but I also think the message will help you or even makes it to the sticky section. I have free time because 1-8th of January are official holidays in Russia.

Nana Akosua Baakan:
I want to stress how necessary it is to ask the correct questions.

If the questions are posed in a certain way, you will get an answer that makes sense to you.
If you write down a question, that you don't even understand what are you trying to ask, then the answer will probably not make any sense either.

What you need is to really meditate on how you want to ask a question, and what it is that you really want to know.
However the posing of the question, the language in the question is extremely! important for understanding and developing the relationship with the oracle.

In the beginning you may only have to ask only one or two questions.
For me, after 30 years, I have to sit and ask several questions before I get to what I really want to know.
They(the Elders, Yi) will take me on a journey, and they are good for that.

You wanna ask, if a situation comes up, whatever it is, one of the most standard questions is "Please comment on this situation", and lay it out.
You ask about one thing at a time.

If you say "Please comment on, I went to the market and when I got my groceries, the lady gave me a little bit of my change and she didn't put all of my food in the bag and when I left, I got to my car but there was a dent in it,
and the person that crashed into my car didn't stop".
If you go on like that then you gonna get an answer that is going to get like that.

You want to ask them to "comment on the situation surrounding the" transference of money from the cashier to me today.
Then "How did I view that situation?", just to get an idea where you were in it. Because sometimes we think we see it one way, when in fact we see it another way.
Then ask "How should I have viewed that situation?"

If you ask the oracle "Is she lying?!" "Is she stealing my money?!" "Is he cheating on me?" "Am I gonna pass the test?" "Am I gonna get rich?" "Is this business going to make me famous?" Hah.
The Oracle will just smile and ask you back: "Is that the business that you are supposed to be in?" "Is that the business that your soul came here for you to do?"
"Cheating huh? Was that a mental cheating or a physical one? Which one did you mean?"
"And what is a lie? Is it a lie because you think it is a lie, or is it because something is different from truth? Is a lie always different from truth?"

So you will find yourself going on a journey with the oracle.
You will be like: "I wanna answer! I don't want your philosophy, just an answer!"
Oracle will say: "Oooohoho, little grasshopper, be still, and get this answer under your belt, because any other answer you not gonna be able to handle, ok?
So please, just take your time and listen".

So, Yes or No questions, never! Take it from my 30 year experience of working with the oracle on a regular basis, teaching classes, working with students, clients.
Yes and No is not the way to go with Yi!

"What is gonna happen tomorrow?" Not a good question.
"How should I conduct myself tomorrow while attending our staff meeting?" Now there you have a good question.

"Am I going to be rich?" is a no-no.
"What can I do to apply myself to enhance my financial situation?" and "What am I doing to hinder/stay in the way of my financial advancement?"
Not "What is Joe doing" or "What is Sarah doing", ask what are You doing.

If you are in a conflictual relationship, You feel the conflict; "What is He/She doing to cause conflict?" - not a good question.
In fact, those are the types of questions that will get you an answer that makes you cross your eyes and ask "What da????" "How da ???" "How am I supposed to understand this answer?"

The oracle is not a toy! you don't play with the oracle! You can play with it if you want to, but you will find yourself being not very enthusiastic about using it, because the answers that you will get will be sort of "Well, you are playing, pff, you must not be serious".
So if you are serious, you want to make sure that you come forward as a serious person.

Peace and blessings.

 

[svenrus]

First, thanks for the link to Nana Akosua Baakan

I do not belong to those consulting the I spontaneously again and again. But I think it's OK to do for one who wish to be familiar with it. I think it's a good way to learn how the I correspond with You.

The picture, on the contrary, I see for me when discussing the whole area around consulting it is like the pupil asking the teacher about why the Earth is circling around the Sun and the teacher goes on explaining it all in detail. Now, if the pupil rapidly hereafter ask why the Moon is circling around the Earth it would tell the teacher that either the pupil hasn't listened or that the pupil hasn't understood his answer. In any cases comparing this with the consultation with the I, it would be mostly like tiresome imagening the I being a sage. (some would say hex. four-ish) But I have seldom experienced that the I in such cases has explained itself in other ways but still with the same hexagrams involved:
consultation on february the 6 2012: primary 19. secundary 2. nuclear 24
On february 16 same year: primary 24. secndary 19. nuclear 2.
and finally on april 25 same year: primary 19. secundary 24. nuclear 24. Things like this tells me that the I is a very patient adviser and I think that it will be OK to consult it again and again for the sake of learning it and it's strange language.

 

[ginnie]

Yes, Yi is an extraordinarily patient adviser.

 

[flashlight]

consultation on february the 6 2012: primary 19. secundary 2. nuclear 24
On february 16 same year: primary 24. secndary 19. nuclear 2.
and finally on april 25 same year: primary 19. secundary 24. nuclear 24. Things like this tells me that the I is a very patient adviser and I think that it will be OK to consult it again and again for the sake of learning it and it's strange language.

I've had some instances of a particular hex coming back several times on the same topic - eiter as initial hex with or without changing lines or as a resulting hex - but your example, Svenrus, is quite astounding. I guess the Yi is both patient and determined to communicate a consistet message. That is reassuring!

 

[svenrus]

Those readings were around the dead of my mother who passed away on the 14' of february that year. I have never experienced such "coming back" of the same patterns of hexagrams before, and even three times shortly (in relation to how often I consult the oracle) after one and another. The first case was eight days before she passed away, the second was two days after and the third a little over two month later but with the same combination of hexagrams ie. 2, 19 and 24.
I will not go into depth with those readings but anyone knows what a time it is when a parent passes away.

 

[flashlight]

Yup, Svenrus.. know exactly what you are talking about..

sending the good thoughts... be gentle with yourself...