taxman cometh

[Tohpol]

Hi guys,

Throwing this in the den as I'm not 100%. It could be really important how I handle this. I reckon it's saying I have to confront this and get it all sorted otherwise if I don't tie up loose ends now I might have a bigger problem in the future. Even though there may be no problem at all...Then again, 24 seems to say return from this action...

I asked Madame Yi for a comment on the idea of sending a certain article of tax correspondence:

24.1.3 > 15

I followed this up with:

In what sense do you mean? Being active on this issue or being passive?

54.1.4 > 7

I'd appreciate some first impressions of this hex set to add to my averaging...

Topal

 

[rosada]

I see 24 as meaning to pause and regroup. An opportunity to mend and tend. Would this tax paper have to do with putting something in proper order? 15 has to do with going forward in a way that doesn't make any waves. I see this as encouraging you to send the paper with the idea that now you will be able to walk a smooth level road.

 

[Tohpol]

I see 24 as meaning to pause and regroup. An opportunity to mend and tend. Would this tax paper have to do with putting something in proper order? 15 has to do with going forward in a way that doesn't make any waves. I see this as encouraging you to send the paper with the idea that now you will be able to walk a smooth level road.

Hey Rosada,

Yeah, that's kinda what I'm thinking. It would indeed have to do with putting something in order - spot on.

Sometimes I'm never quite sure if 24 is saying return to your original purpose or idea or return to the correct route as in the new direction indicated.

However, 54 seems to suggest not to be impulsive but also to take the reins and be responsible - pause and take stock. Do it properly. As you say, ironing out the wrinkles for a "smooth level road."

Well. We'll see. Thanks for thoughts.

Topal

 

[rosada]

Hi Topal, Thanks for the positive feedback. Your bringing up 24 has caused me to look at it a bit more, so what follows is not about your toss, but just musing on 24..
I think 24 makes more sence when a person looks at the sequence. It seems to me the central theme of the I Ching is how to bring who you are, your perspective, into the group consciousness. At first You don't know what your perspective is, but after a bit of back and forth you start to feel you have something to share and so around Hexagram 19 you get your act together and take it on the road. At first it seems you really can make a differance as you note some people having a problem or two that you have a solution for, (20,21) but it's not long before you realize that not only will giving a people a fish only feed them for one meal (22), but afterwards they'll continue to like you only if you continue to feed them (23). You realize this isn't working at all, so you Split and RETURN to where you first felt grounded and secure, 24. When you are feeling secure you can then totally rethink and reorganize. If you're really feeling safe, you can even dare to consider what mistakes YOU might have made that contributed to the situation. Ideally you realize that your "mistakes" were somehow part of your learning process, or part of what needed to happen. You see this mix up need not be considered yours or anybody else's fault. When you have sortied it all out and ATTAINED innocence (25), that is, come to realize you weren't "wrong" or "guilty" and therefore need not fear punishment, then you are strongly motivated to (26) set the akashic records streight so you wont go through similar mix ups again. In setting the record streight you are advised to use clear simple words (27) and not get into some heavy unnecessary drag-you-down debate (28).
Simply:
24. Step back and think it through.
25. Get clear about what happened.
26. Present the facts.
27. Present them in a way that makes them easy to digest.
28. Don't get bogged down, this doesn't need to be Grand Opera.
29. If you are clear about your facts and innocence, you will find your path is clear.

 

[Tohpol]

Love it! This is why the memorizing threads work so well. A big round of a applause for some very useful and practical thoughts.:bows:

Topal

 

[willowfox]

I asked Madame Yi for a comment on the idea of sending a certain article of tax correspondence:

24.1.3 > 15 This suggests to send that paper, it is all about following your conscience and doing what is right, if you are contemplating trying to cheat the taxman, think again before doing it.

I followed this up with:

In what sense do you mean? Being active on this issue or being passive?

54.1.4 > 7 Your answer does indeed speak of the need for action. Think of 54.1, you are the maiden who is required to work in a servile position for the government, you have no power but you are required to be obedient to the law and that requires action, if you were to act passive, then you would do nothing to abide by the law, then you would cheat the law by your inactivity.

 

[Tohpol]

I asked Madame Yi for a comment on the idea of sending a certain article of tax correspondence:

24.1.3 > 15 This suggests to send that paper, it is all about following your conscience and doing what is right, if you are contemplating trying to cheat the taxman, think again before doing it.

I followed this up with:

In what sense do you mean? Being active on this issue or being passive?

54.1.4 > 7 Your answer does indeed speak of the need for action. Think of 54.1, you are the maiden who is required to work in a servile position for the government, you have no power but you are required to be obedient to the law and that requires action, if you were to act passive, then you would do nothing to abide by the law, then you would cheat the law by your inactivity.

Hey WF,

Thanks for your insights.

It's quite a complicated issue as I've spent much of my time travelling in the last ten years. But yes, it basically boils down to the ingredients you mentioned. I think it is merely about avoiding unnecessary hassle rather than it being about conscience. (The latter is something that doesn't feature in any of the tax institutions).For a number of reasons I think "the law is an ass" and I have an opinion on the allocation and and the payment of tax. However...I have always paid it on time and via the various different foreign circumstances I've found myself in. I'm pretty law-abiding suprisingly enough

I am not averse to cheating the law when the law is demonstrably unfair (which is most of the time). Very often, depending on the specific circumstances passivity in relation to some financial issues is a necessity. In my particular case right now, it seems that it wouldn't be prudent to "duck and dive". So, advice noted.

Incidentally, while we are on the subject there's a great video about how this applies to America even more and of course, is a different case entirely. How many Americans know that you do not have to pay tax on your income?

I recommend ALL Americans to watch this video from start to finish and then decide whether you'll pay your next tax bill. Millions don't and if taken to court - they win. Why? because there is no written law that says you have to pay tax on your basic earnings. And it was thrown out by the Supreme Court decades ago. It is a huge fraud perpetrated by the Federal bank.

Go here: http://www.freedomtofascism.com/ for trailers and then go here for the google video.

Thanks for your thoughts WF.

Topal

 

[Trojina]

Hi guys,

Throwing this in the den as I'm not 100%. It could be really important how I handle this. I reckon it's saying I have to confront this and get it all sorted otherwise if I don't tie up loose ends now I might have a bigger problem in the future. Even though there may be no problem at all...Then again, 24 seems to say return from this action...

I asked Madame Yi for a comment on the idea of sending a certain article of tax correspondence:

24.1.3 > 15

I followed this up with:

In what sense do you mean? Being active on this issue or being passive?

54.1.4 > 7

I'd appreciate some first impressions of this hex set to add to my averaging...

Topal

Topal I haven't read the other responses so i don't know if i am contradicting but my first impression of your readings was 'wait and see what they ask for', cos 24.3 suggests whatever you give them they are going to ask to see something different. IOW after sending this it won't be over it will trigger further correspondence.

54 as always are matters out of your control - how active can you be ? I don't know how it works in the US but whenever I try to sort tax matters out, carefully gathering everything i think is necessary they (usually lose it) and say they need to send out form A or form B - IOW you have to fall in with their process, understandably I guess. its a big system - and it grinds exceedingly slow. I think with this I might wait till they get in touch with you, or talk to them to ask exactly what they need, well I expect you already know that. I just don't see 54 as favouring being too proactive, more like falling in with what is asked of you and 54.4 suggests waiting.

Your comment about throwing your query 'into the den' amused me, its like the question is a piece of meat and we're hungry wolves waiting to chew it over and rip it apart to see whats there, lol

 

[Tohpol]

Topal I haven't read the other responses so i don't know if i am contradicting but my first impression of your readings was 'wait and see what they ask for', cos 24.3 suggests whatever you give them they are going to ask to see something different. IOW after sending this it won't be over it will trigger further correspondence.

54 as always are matters out of your control - how active can you be ? I don't know how it works in the US but whenever I try to sort tax matters out, carefully gathering everything i think is necessary they (usually lose it) and say they need to send out form A or form B - IOW you have to fall in with their process, understandably I guess. its a big system - and it grinds exceedingly slow. I think with this I might wait till they get in touch with you, or talk to them to ask exactly what they need, well I expect you already know that. I just don't see 54 as favouring being too proactive, more like falling in with what is asked of you and 54.4 suggests waiting.

Your comment about throwing your query 'into the den' amused me, its like the question is a piece of meat and we're hungry wolves waiting to chew it over and rip it apart to see whats there, lol

Hiya Trojan,

Glad you chimed in - always appreciate your thoughts.

Well, again I tend to agree with you and taking the average of the other responses I think this modifies but doesn't nullify what's gone before.

I'm quite sure they will ask for more info. But my feeling is, providing I'm up front it'll go ok. I'm British by birth and yeah, I'm familiar with the "grinding" tax system which is why I'm in two minds as to whether to start dredging things up. Once they start digging I'm afraid there'll uncover something and these institutions will start pooling their resources....lol. Then again, if there is something I've neglected and I leave it ten years and THEN they contact me...Hmmm. Not sure I can leave it to them. Not that I haven't paid my way when I have to - but let's say I've managed to be creative, depending on which country I'm in.

Anyway, best get it over with and start the ball rolling with a softly, softly approach...

Thanks for chewing it all over!

Topal

 

[Tohpol]

Update.

In the end, I didn't do anything. I received some financial advice that meant that I was effectively worrying about nothing.

I got Hex 52 in response to a further question prior to getting that advice and after the other questions. There'll be a time to follow up and I'll certainly monitor the situation but the time to actually do anything isn't now. Or so it seems.

Topal

 

[rosada]

Thanks for the update. So how do you interpret those hexagrams in light of what actually happened? I'm seeing 24 more and more as "Don't do anything, just chill till spring comes again." Perhaps in your case 15 was refering to the adviser who would eventually appear on the scene to actually tell you this? Hmm, now that I look at the lines for 24 I can see them as saying "Whatever was off track isn't THAT big a deal." But I read them as meaning, "Whatever was off track isn't that big a deal...so you can easily clear it up, take modest (15) action." But as I say, now I'm going to think of 24 as really emphasizing take no action.

 

[willowfox]

Now, seeing this question with hindsight Hex 24.1 says "Returning before going too far" which is probably the key to the answer, you are contemplating sending the paper but in the end you don't. So, returning to the way things were before you heard from the taxman.
Hex 24.3 suggested that you were just too unsure what to do, send, not send......., so probably when it mentions uncontrolled desires, it meant your desire to send the paper instead of staying still.

I misunderstood your intentions, I thought your desire was to hide from the taxman and not to pay him which is very different. A tricky answer when one does not know what the querant is thinking exactly.

 

[Tohpol]

Thanks for the update. So how do you interpret those hexagrams in light of what actually happened? I'm seeing 24 more and more as "Don't do anything, just chill till spring comes again." Perhaps in your case 15 was refering to the adviser who would eventually appear on the scene to actually tell you this? Hmm, now that I look at the lines for 24 I can see them as saying "Whatever was off track isn't THAT big a deal." But I read them as meaning, "Whatever was off track isn't that big a deal...so you can easily clear it up, take modest (15) action." But as I say, now I'm going to think of 24 as really emphasizing take no action.

Yes, I think the reading is saying right now, it's not necessary to do anything but keep an eye on things long-term and remember 52 as saying be still in speech otherwise you could actually bring on some unnecessary trouble. So, yes, it's no big deal right now. I might do another reading in several months depending on my circumstances which are often changing.

24 is sometimes very difficult to gauge - whether it means return to your original plan or the renewal / rebirth of something different. I think it often requires a clarification.

Now, seeing this question with hindsight Hex 24.1 says "Returning before going too far" which is probably the key to the answer, you are contemplating sending the paper but in the end you don't. So, returning to the way things were before you heard from the taxman.
Hex 24.3 suggested that you were just too unsure what to do, send, not send......., so probably when it mentions uncontrolled desires, it meant your desire to send the paper instead of staying still.

Seems to be so.

I misunderstood your intentions, I thought your desire was to hide from the taxman and not to pay him which is very different. A tricky answer when one does not know what the querant is thinking exactly.

I was wondering if I was being TOO dutiful in sharing my current situation. It may well be that in the near future I'll have to "return" in a more explicit and thorough way, but right now it seems it's not necessary. But the nature of the question was always going to be a complicated one, therefore, not easy to get the right handle on it. Initially I thought the same as you and in terms of the long-term situation your reading of it actually still holds true - just not right now.

Topal

 

[Tohpol]

"I just don't see 54 as favouring being too proactive, more like falling in with what is asked of you and 54.4 suggests waiting."

Five gold stars for Trojan!

Topal

 

[Trojina]

Thanks for telling us what happened. I wish more people would - it would be useful