the army and the well

[libelulle]

Hello, again.
I asked to IC: What is this relationship between X and Y meant to?

The answer was the hex 7 lines 3 and 5.
I understand that this relationship need hard work, many difficulties will be in our path, and there will be a battle that I have to confront.

As result hexagram 48.

Is it a bad result?

Thank you so much.

Libelulle.

 

[arabella]

Hello, again.
I asked to IC: What is this relationship between X and Y meant to?

The answer was the hex 7 lines 3 and 5.
I understand that this relationship need hard work, many difficulties will be in our path, and there will be a battle that I have to confront.

As result hexagram 48.

Is it a bad result?

Thank you so much.

Libelulle.

No, I don't think it's bad at all. In fact, it sounds quite constructive as a relationship. Hexagram 7 can be about past difficulties that have left you with "corpses" or "baggage" and problems that need to be addressed. Sounds like the relationship is either a motivation or a means to do just that. To work some things out. In this case, you asked what the relationship is MEANT to do. So I'd imagine it's meant to help you through some issues you need to attend to -- it has that ability and purpose. Nothing wrong with that.

So far as hexagram 48 goes -- I'd interpret that to mean that, once you've worked the issues through together you have a great relationship, a source of inspiration and support that remains and takes on its own identity. You have a permanent source of caring and companionship that can and will stay right where it is indefinitely, so both of you should feel free to draw upon that and use it to look after each other.

 

[libelulle]

Thank you Arabella I am very glad about your interpretation, i'm not very sure that the difficulties are past. I hope so. Because right now, we don't see each other.
Since the beginning between us there have been a lot of misunderstandings, the communication is cut but he gives our friends messages like, well I don't know if this has finished or not, she has to conquer me again and things like that.

He is very proud and a little immature and both have make mistakes but his attitude was not very helpful to speak about what had happened.
So I decided time passes and if this worths we will come up again. We don't see each other since 2 months ago.

Thank you so much for your answer. Blessings for you.

 

[icastes]

7, the army or the masses, is bad for love. One party is unstable and frivolous, and the love is not share mutually. There too many complications to make love work. If marriage is a goal, that, too, has many problems. Moreover, the moving lines are not auspicious for love or marriage. The 48 well simply means not to take any positive action; maintain your present position, peace, and tranquility. Avoid trouble.

 

[arabella]

7, the army or the masses, is bad for love. One party is unstable and frivolous, and the love is not share mutually. There too many complications to make love work. If marriage is a goal, that, too, has many problems. Moreover, the moving lines are not auspicious for love or marriage. The 48 well simply means not to take any positive action; maintain your present position, peace, and tranquility. Avoid trouble.

In my own experience hex 7 is often somebody tangled up in past issues of "grieving" in a rather broad context of grief or unforgettable problems that they find difficult to put away. But that doesn't mean "impossible" -- rather that they need to face these things head on and get them resolved.

And Hex 48, for me at least, has nearly always been something that can't be shattered, can't be rocked, that is always there as a resource. So I have a difficult time seeing it as a cue to avoid anything. I'd see it more as you'll come out OK no matter what. It isn't necessarily peaceful or tranquil, but it's bedrock and always there to be drawn upon, so don't change it. In itself it is positive but not so much as a position or a place as an atitude or understanding that can't be shaken. So, if you try, if you make the effort, and it doesn't work, there is always a fallback position readily available.

In other words, Libelulle, if you want to try to resolve this, if that becomes an option, I think you'll achieve something. It may not be want you always dreamed of, it may not be a marriage -- and icastes is predicting it can't be. That, I don't know, but I think if you want to find out, if you want to try, you will be okay, with both eyes open and knowing the Well [your own common sense perhaps] is always there rely upon.

 

[libelulle]

thank you icastes, what a difference between two answers.

Time will tell which one is the most accurate.

Thank you for your interest.

 

[libelulle]

In my own experience hex 7 is often somebody tangled up in past issues of "grieving" in a rather broad context of grief or unforgettable problems that they find difficult to put away. But that doesn't mean "impossible" -- rather that they need to face these things head on and get them resolved.

And Hex 48, for me at least, has nearly always been something that can't be shattered, can't be rocked, that is always there as a resource. So I have a difficult time seeing it as a cue to avoid anything. I'd see it more as you'll come out OK no matter what. It isn't necessarily peaceful or tranquil, but it's bedrock and always there to be drawn upon, so don't change it. In itself it is positive but not so much as a position or a place as an atitude or understanding that can't be shaken. So, if you try, if you make the effort, and it doesn't work, there is always a fallback position readily available.

I line with what you say, I try to find out more, and I have asked again: What things I ignore i have to fight about him? I have the presentiment he has been very damaged in the past.
The answer was hex 46 line 4 to 32.
Both hexagrams are very positives so I don't know how to interpret this related to the question.

Thank you for your interest.

 

[icastes]

However one looks at it, 7, the army or the masses, is still a situation of danger. Even if one wants to look at the corpses as past problems, carrying corpses still means that there were death in the ranks. Leadership (Line 5) requires the right people and apportioned by whim or cronyism. While one wants the inspiring leader to come around for which great honors are bestowed, the moving lines in this reading are not very auspicious. The situation is not good, and the message of the well is that you have to maintain the well, keep it clean, to replenish the situation. I don't see that there is much resolution here at all as the well, jing, is about staying where you are and maintaining one's position as otherwise the bucket breaks or the well goes muddy. The situation can in fact shatter as the well can become unusable. So, what has to be done, if one wants to go ahead with this situation, is to think of eventually how this well be used to replenish not only the parties involved, but others as well as the situation with 7 of necessity involves more than just the parties involved.

 

[arabella]

[/QUOTE} I line with what you say, I try to find out more, and I have asked again: What things I ignore i have to fight about him? I have the presentiment he has been very damaged in the past.
The answer was hex 46 line 4 to 32.
Both hexagrams are very positives so I don't know how to interpret this related to the question.

Thank you for your interest.[/QUOTE]

I think you could find out more about him with very little effort, especially if others who know him confide in you. Then you can determine if you want to pursue anything futher. Line 46.4 is about devotion and sacrifice and hexagram about steadiness, the baseline of stability. Perhaps he had a devoted relationship that didn't work and this threatened his overall stability?

But, if you have a presentiment he is "very damaged," that sounds quite ominous. What is your interest in him if he has demonstrated behaviour to indicate severe damage? Even if you could overcome that -- do you want to?

 

[libelulle]

well, I was damaged aswell by my previous partner and with all that pain I have learnt a lot. Maybe he needs that help from me.
Those experiences are part of our learning here, maybe thats why I received the 48 hexagram.
We both need a support, someone who give us back all the ilussion that we lost in the past.
I don't know, if he's convenient for me or not. He has qualities I love in a person: integrity, nobility and goodness.
The only problem I think he's inestable in his relationships.
Thank you Arabella for everything.

 

[jfas]

Yes, two mentions of corpses being hauled away does not sound auspicious to me. My understanding is those lines refer to dangerous incompetence in leadership.

Where is this idea that they are about "emotional baggage" coming from?. There are other hexagrams for dealing with emotional baggage.

7.3 indicates serious defeat.

 

[libelulle]

Thank you for your contribution, I'll consider it.
Blessings for all of you.

 

[arabella]

Yes, two mentions of corpses being hauled away does not sound auspicious to me. My understanding is those lines refer to dangerous incompetence in leadership.

Where is this idea that they are about "emotional baggage" coming from?. There are other hexagrams for dealing with emotional baggage.

7.3 indicates serious defeat.

Hi jfas, and thanks for asking for the explanation. Here's a thread on the subject. I didn't take my interpretation from this thread, but it expresses, especially in Ginnie's comments, the way I have known Hexagram 7 to play out in my life.:bows:

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=6675

 

[jfas]

I don't see the reference. This thread discusses this line in particular. I think one of the comments from Bradford is pertinent here:

I think it's important not to soften the word shi, "corpses" or fatalities with new age and feel-good interpretations. At least in the metaphor, someone's gonna die here if they don't pull their act together. And with this kind of incompetence they will be accidently killing each other. I'm not sure if the problem is in the ranks, either. Maybe the wrong people are being promoted for the wrong reasons.

 

[arabella]

Well, whatever he was discussing, that sounds rather scarey. But, of course, it depends on the circumstances.

My own understanding, one of them, for Hex 7 indicating difficulties related to sadness and grieving is, as the thread I sent you indicates, an interpretation of the 10th Wing. I'm thinking where else I've seen it in strong terms and, I believe it's in the translation Hilary gives for readings done on this website.

 

[libelulle]

After reading all the threads about, now I think I begin undestanding.

line 7.3: fears to fail again, distrust in the other person, and a low self-esteem are the corpses that I carry with me. They are the obstacles in this relationship.

line 7.5: an advice not to show my inner feelings to the others.

But what about hex 48?

 

[arabella]

I think it is wise if we move this back up the queue and invite further opinions and interpretations libelulle. This is important to your life, so far the two who responded aren't reading anything nearly the same. So I hope some of the mentoring masters will come on this thread and give additional advice. XO Arabella

 

[libelulle]

how can I do that?
Please help me, I don't know the steps, is it a place in the I ching community?

 

[anemos]

After reading all the threads about, now I think I begin undestanding.

line 7.3: fears to fail again, distrust in the other person, and a low self-esteem are the corpses that I carry with me. They are the obstacles in this relationship.

line 7.5: an advice not to show my inner feelings to the others.

But what about hex 48?

at 48, there is a well. One can draw water unless the rope isn't long enough or the jug gets broken. then the water remains unapproachable . There is a similar story at line 7.3 and 5. There is an army ( i prefer militia) but the leader in line 3 is not the right one and line 5 stretches more the need for a wise choice.

both hexs, as i see them from here, have a potential for positive or negative results. My guess is that hex's 7 lines are an advise how to choose the right rope or not brake the jug.

7.5
There is game in the field.
It furthers one to catch it.
Without blame.
Let the eldest lead the army.
The younger transports corpses;
Then perseverance brings misfortune.

I read " there is a game at the field , as there is a well. there is a potential. Just "Let the eldest lead the army"

Line 7.3 sounds dreadful and it can manifest in such a way if we keep the same leader. I got it twice for the same matter where death was one of the possible results if I would take that action. not happy getting such a line . I understand your worries about those line. Just focus on what/who are those leading now and see if you can find something else, another "leader".

 

[arabella]

Libelulle, I think Anemos' post is the kind of thing you are looking for. It gives the potential and the warnings, so you can choose your path. This is between what jfas and I were saying -- more of a middle road -- and includes most of what each of us had said as well. I think if you can see how this interpretation relates to your situation you will have a good idea what to do next. I hope it all works out for the best.

 

[libelulle]

" Just "Let the eldest lead the army"

Line 7.3 sounds dreadful and it can manifest in such a way if we keep the same leader. I got it twice for the same matter where death was one of the possible results if I would take that action. not happy getting such a line . I understand your worries about those line. Just focus on what/who are those leading now and see if you can find something else, another "leader".


Ok Anemos but how can I apply this to the real life, not in a metaphoric way?
Who is the eldest leader here, this is the most important question here. and where can I find another leader?Please explain me deeply in this case.
You tell me that you receive those lines to advice you about death? This thread is about relationship, I don't see the connection.

Thank you again for your invaluable help
:bows:

 

[libelulle]

I've consulting the Carol K, Anthony version and I think I've realized who o what are the leaders.
I think the leaders in this story are the fears coming from the past, the ego takes control in the war and that produces corpses . If I want to win this war I must keep my ego at bay.
I have a clearer vission of the situation that the iching tells me.

Do you agree with me?

Thank you again.

 

[anemos]

Ok Anemos but how can I apply this to the real life, not in a metaphoric way?

I have no idea Libelulle. Thats my question for all my readings , so far.