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The I Ching Community's highest potential

hilary

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Thinking about what to write about the intention and vision for this place (all the forums, including Shared Readings) I asked Yi to show me its highest potential.

Yi says -
4.5 to 59

Love it! (And not least the way it echoes posts from Maria, Bamboo and Mike over in the 'Clarity News' threads.)

You could read that as 'ignorance's dispersal', but I'm more inclined to think of Not Knowing as a purpose in itself. It reminds me of one of my personal favourite early readings, after I'd left academia, asking what my brains were for - and learning that they're for Not Knowing with.

So the forums are for Not Knowing - a place to be ignorant, to ask questions and listen to the (first...) answer, and nurture de with the fruits of action.

Ignorance's dispersing - the dispersing action and dispersing moment of ignorance. The power not knowing has to dissolve away solid things, divisions and artificial barriers. (Not to mention all Wilhelm has to say about egotism.) I imagine dispersing must make it much easier for the king to see his way to his temple.

The moving line -

‘Young ignoramus.
Good fortune.’

The good fortune is because she's young, right? So she has the capacity to learn something. So much more good fortune than being old and already knowing.

Now please excuse me while I wander off around a line pathway...

3.2, paired line, where this might be coming from/ what it might be responding to -

‘Now sprouting, now hesitating.
Now driving a full horse team.
Not outlaws at all, marital allies.
The child-woman’s constancy – not bearing children.
Ten years go by, then bears children.’

So the young fool's good fortune isn't so easy to come by. This little sprout hesitates, and sees outlaws where there are allies, but brings out his best horses and has great patience and faith that this will all bear fruit eventually, however long it takes. That makes 'young ignoramus, good fortune' sound like the moral of the story. Like the toddler who doesn't say, 'Oh dear, I fell over, it just goes to show I'm no good at this walking thing' and go back to crawling for the rest of his life.

59.5, fan yao, how it might feel...
'Dispersing sweat, his great proclamation.
Dispersing the king's granaries.
No mistake.'

It might feel like hard work... :rolleyes: and like 'putting yourself out there', and certainly the perfect opposite of battling to hold onto status, uniqueness and authority. Staying within the security of the known and familiar would not (60.2) be good.

So ...

"The I Ching Community is a warm, open place for free, wide-ranging exploration of the I Ching. It's a place to learn about and from this oracle, through experience, one reading at a time. We respect the desire to learn, and honour the potential for growth in not knowing."
 

bamboo

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"The I Ching Community is a warm, open place for free, wide-ranging exploration of the I Ching. It's a place to learn about and from this oracle, through experience, one reading at a time. We respect the desire to learn, and honour the potential for growth in not knowing."
__________________
love it!!!!!!
Yesterday, I did something I haven't done in a very long time. I went to a bookstore and took a little stool over to the eastern religion section and started quietly (privately- as in looking over my shoulder to make sure no one saw) throwing coins...and then I read the I Ching translations from the shelf........all of them obscure and ones I do not own........but I felt so enlivened by this, like a young sprout just learning again..and i realized how stale i have gotten with readings, so reliant on my old understandings, flippant responses.

so yes, I love this fresh start you describe and a new commitment to "not knowing".which is a good idea not only for the Yi but for living, and also seems so timely in a global sense.
 

willowfox

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This forum's highest potential will never be reached until all the current problems are resolved, until peace and harmony reign here because the forum needs the cooperation of all concerned to make it a better place, at the moment it is very brittle and therefore needs a major overhaul to be made by all here.
So, there needs to be a strong ruler here, one who can guide their subjects on a new journey by uniting all under one flag.

Therefore the potential will always remain just potential until the ruler comes to the forum and sorts it out, and leads us all to salvation.

Hex 59
 
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jack12345

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A tiny plant(hex4 -line 5?) disperses its seeds and the wind carries it across the water(hex 59).

I think this might mean the forum community will help to grow lots of seedlings in time?:D
 

my_key

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Hilary
A clear intention and vision is always a good place to start. Nice work.:bows:

From little oaks do mighty acorns grow.:D

Mike
 

hilary

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From little oaks do mighty acorns grow.:D

Mike
:D

Bamboo, where in the world is there a mainstream bookshop with more than one I Ching translation on the shelf? Can you please clone it?
 

Trojina

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:D

Bamboo, where in the world is there a mainstream bookshop with more than one I Ching translation on the shelf? Can you please clone it?
we must live in a different country. Most Waterstones seem to have several translations...although i use the term translation loosley
 

javalava

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So this is what I missed by not turning on my computer last night?

Well done Hilary, and clever Yi yet again. I particularly like your take on the moving lines.

There needs to be a strong ruler here, one who can guide their subjects on a new journey by uniting all under one flag. Therefore the potential will always remain just potential until the ruler comes to the forum and sorts it out, and leads us all to salvation.
Only too well do I know the temptation of this right-wing heart: the desire for quick, hard line fixes. When I was teaching I used to quip, "All teenagers should be shot at birth" ;) . But even then I recognised its short-sightedness, prefering those who tried to limit their right-wing tendencies rather than give them reign. These days, though, the genie is well and truly out of the bottle. (And boy, don't we hear those old fogies grumble about it!) I think the character of the 21st century is beginning to show.

The good side of "young people not understanding respect" is that the days of authoritarian government (of either hue) are numbered. When the people are weak and ignorant, strong leadership might have been appropriate. But our children are growing up to be strong and savy. In these circumstances "strong leadership" would imprison them rather than develop their potential. The internet is a great leveller. African villages have mobile phones before clean water. Guerilla warfare is a real force. It will be harder and harder for anyone to "lord it over" anyone else in such a world. Young people are already rejecting the political ideas of the 20th century as irrelevant.

I love this "community of Not Knowing" idea. It is egalitarian without being sterile; adventurous without riding rough-shod. A hexagram-3 view on the future, in my opinion. And the most encouraging news I've heard in quite some time. I don't want to bore people further, but conversations I've had recently with young people in our village have shown I no longer really understand "the pulse" of what's happening, being steeped in 20th century thinking. But they know much more than we give them credit for. And guess what? Their view of the future looks much more like a "community of Not Knowing"!

Over the years I have noticed that parent who trust their children (understanding the children are their own people with their own lives) tend to have well-adjusted happy families. While parents who attempt to impose their view of "good" or "right" produce offspring who may be successful in their careers, but whose families tend to be marred by the same oppressiveness, often showing itself as division or rebellion. "Not Knowing" works better.

Thank you, Hilary, for providing just the right sort of leadership we need: enlightened service and inspiration.
 
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hilary

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Actually, WF's take reminds me of another reading about this recently. Maria asked, 'Rules?' and Yi said 7.2.
 
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maremaria

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Another question to Yi
Q : "Clarity, moderation ?"
A : 19.1,5 > 40

From LiSe's Site

19.1 Every caring has to be with love. One action which is not right can mess up everything. One moment of forgetting can be a disaster. Leaving the baby a minute alone, forgetting a medicine, not noticing the papers near the fire, forgetting an appointment. The 'mouths' one looks after have to be a part of one's mind, always, every moment.

19.5 When you know how to near people, how close, what to accept and what not, how to stay yourself and let them be who they are, how to attract those of value and keep distance from the harmful ones – then you have the assets of being a leader or teacher.

;)
 
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meng

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On 4.. maybe a little more respect for the questions and a little less for the answers. It begins with a question. It's no sin if it also ends with one.
 

bamboo

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:D

Bamboo, where in the world is there a mainstream bookshop with more than one I Ching translation on the shelf? Can you please clone it?
In Barnes and Noble , there is always at least 4, including usually wilhelm. this store I was in is an entrepreneurial venture started years ago, one of a kind , but big, well-known. their collection varies, but that day there were 3 texts.

i fully expect to see yours there some day, and i would hope you even come give an author talk....speakers like you would be so well-received here:bows:
 
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meng

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Reversing meng's trigrams is 39, obstruction, the opposite of the openness of 4. This could mean that some would ask more questions if not inhibited or intimidated.
 

willowfox

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Another question to Yi
Q : "Clarity, moderation ?"
A : 19.1,5 > 40
Line 19.1 says that slowly something good will come out of all this as Hilary will at last do something and she will get sensible support from others on this forum as to what should be done under the circumstances.

Line 19.5 Now this suggests that Hilary needs some people who can act as moderators, she needs to lay down the rules of the game and then let these "experts"(moderators do their job unobstructed.

While hex 40 suggests that mistakes, misdeeds and anything unintentional is quickly dealt with and life goes on, therefore any problem or fighting that does occur needs to be swiftly dealt with so that the forum can continue to roll in harmony.
 

hilary

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On 4.. maybe a little more respect for the questions and a little less for the answers. It begins with a question. It's no sin if it also ends with one.
Quite. (Someone should write an I Ching commentary that consists of nothing but the questions each hexagram and line tend to ask.)
 
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meng

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Also the refinement of questions. I was going to say that earlier but I don't want to sound like I'm looking down on simple every day type questions either. But there's nothing like a great question to get the creative juices flowing.
 
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maremaria

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Also the refinement of questions. I was going to say that earlier but I don't want to sound like I'm looking down on simple every day type questions either. But there's nothing like a great question to get the creative juices flowing.
By rarifying or purifying? Or there is a “it depends” here.

Sometimes , the more I add to a questions seems like the more I “exclude” answers. But there are time I need to narrow it down.
Asking the right question is equal difficult as to inteprend a line to me.

What makes a “great question” ?
 

fkegan

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Hex 4.5>>59 in Flux Tome terms: Pupal >>Solution or the cocoon releases the butterfly as it develops focus organizing the caterpillar or pupa elements into its beautiful butterfly.

The nature image of the trigrams for hex 4 is the flowing water under the mountain which is a description of the artesian springs that form in the valleys by high mountains and even present as natural fountains which can be another image of Sun or wind or growing wood over water, the wind of spring water thrown into the air by an artesian fountain.

The Chinese character for hex 4 is a drawing of a pig under the roof, an image of the traditional household which put a pig in a pit under the house to become part of the household system (apparently combination garbage disposal and waste treatment plant). This became an image of education in terms of training young ones to fit into the culture in a way that allows them to meet their own career needs.

Interesting notion to have a Yi Oracle book made from experience of what questions tend to result in that oracle and what results followed from them. Would require quite a network of Yi Oracle sources to have results for each hexagram and each moving line.

Frank
 
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meng

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By rarifying or purifying? Or there is a “it depends” here.

Sometimes , the more I add to a questions seems like the more I “exclude” answers. But there are time I need to narrow it down.
Asking the right question is equal difficult as to inteprend a line to me.
Thought provoking questions, questions which probe in a 64 way, and answers that can't always be argued in a 63 way.

Hilary's idea of commentary questions on hexagrams and lines is a truly interesting idea. That could be something people could contribute to anonymously, a Yi question box? (keeping it to Yijing questions, not interpreting readings.) Maybe Rosada would like to help administrate that?

Funny to think of it being switched around, where the authorities are taught by newbies. Maybe in an ideal world.
 
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maremaria

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Thought provoking questions, questions which probe in a 64 way, and answers that can't always be argued in a 63 way.

.
Aha, fireworks questions. This is how I call them. The answer is hidden in the firework and the question kindles it.

Hilary's idea of commentary questions on hexagrams and lines is a truly interesting idea. That could be something people could contribute to anonymously, a Yi question box? (keeping it to Yijing questions, not interpreting readings.) Maybe Rosada would like to help administrate that?

Funny to think of it being switched around, where the authorities are taught by newbies. Maybe in an ideal world.
intriguing !!!!
Hilary, Rosada, Meng... where do we post ?
 
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meng

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thoughts..

There are "in the box questions" and "outside the box questions". It may do well to separate them accordingly. What I mean is, some questions can very well be addressed in a 63 way, providing the one who answers knows what they're talking about, i.e. a particular method or system or matters of historical records and translation work, etc. Outside the box questions deal with matters that may be purely theoretical or hypothetical, poetic, highly interpretable, philosophical or what have you. I think it would give a place to each type of question.
 

rodaki

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Funny to think of it being switched around, where the authorities are taught by newbies. Maybe in an ideal world.

. . or maybe not?:rolleyes:
I respectfully disagree with the 'ideal' part . . Both my parents are teachers in high school and I can't count the times both they and their friends have said the classic -to the point of it being a cliche- "We think we are teaching them but they cannot imagine how much they are teaching us . ."

could it be that teachings and knowledge are two very different substances? . . Or, what are the chances that knowledge, beyond its quantifiable side which grants authority, has another, non-measurable aspect, accessible to all equally?
 
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meng

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Dora, I had a little trouble understanding what you just said. I don't know what your or your parents' experiences are, but I learn constantly from those with less knowledge and/or experience. No cliche.

But I think this is a good example of a question that could be explored.

could it be that teachings and knowledge are two very different substances? . . Or, what are the chances that knowledge, beyond its quantifiable side which grants authority, has another, non-measurable aspect, accessible to all equally?
 

rodaki

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ahm . . probably my fault :eek: . . just meant to say that it is not that ideal that newbies teach the knowledgeable ones . .
(we're saying the same thing :duh:)
 
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maremaria

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Knowledge (as awareness of facts) , for me, is not enough to accept someone to be my teacher. What distinguish a teacher from an information-provider is wisdom, imo.

But before saying more, Dora, how do you define knowledge or is that you are asking too ? (checking if I’m in the right track :blush:)
 

rodaki

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sorry for the late reply (visiting Grandma :) )

. . I've often wondered about knowledge and I think Maria we agree on how we see it . . maybe there are -at least- 2 kinds of knowledge . . one, a repository of data, information, often used as currency, stored in text-banks . . the other, a strange, fluid thing, I used to see it as information cultivated through personal time, experience, lived in knowledge
but I'm not sure about the second kind really . . because its relation to time is very peculiar . . sometimes it takes really long, at other times it flashes through like lightning, intuition . . is this still really knowledge? is it equal to the hard-won, long-awaited for kind? where do its roots lie? how does it spring about, how is it cultivated? I only have hunches . .
Maybe knowledge is a relating rather than a static thing, always in flux . .
see, I have no idea really . . maybe talking about it and having others express how they see it can shed some light . .
 

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