Clarity,
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Frank,hello Robert,
I had a question about the Lo shu diagram. normally the lo Shu start with number 1 at the bottum with water. But I had a conversation with somebody and there the Lo Shu started with the number 1 on top with trigram fire,and then number 2 is trigram mountain etc. He said that this is the Siberian way. Do you know this one also and why does it start normaly at the bottum and what will it say when is starts at the top?
Thanks Frank
Erime,Robert Dickter,
Hi - really nice website you have made. I enjoyed looking through many of the pages.
I was wondering whether you would be interested in how the Lo Shu has been used as one of the calibration devices when creating the Former and Later Heaven trigram sequences from the arrangements of the visible celestial bodies around a Taiji symbol?
My thread here explains the procedure, and the Lo Shu comes in to play in post #8. Maybe you would have some additional insight, being so much more familiar with the Lo Shu than me?
Thank you for putting all that information online.
All the best,
Erime
Hi Robertrobertluoshu said:If you understand how the numbers of the Ho Tu rotate into the Lo Shu could you please give a demonstration.
Sorry; can't help you with that.robertluoshu said:Also, I am wondering if balanced ternary notation has anyting to do with this?? I do not know the math of ternary notation so I could use a little help out there.....
intTo the respectable Frank Kegan (only),
Number triplets that form Pythagorean Triads in Luo Shu magic squares represent a significant discovery. No one in four thousand years has made this association that is known. It is a short walk from here to Chinese philosophy and numerology. The primary purpose of numbers and math is for measurement. Math represents the only truth, everything else is illusion.
The best introduction to Pythagorean mathematics today is to examine its root origin, which is Chinese.
If I am to be criticized, please quote me correctly. I never said that my mathematical system could explain the Yi Jing. I said in the above paragraph that higher order magic squares are related to the Yi Jing and play a role in prognostication and calendar making. This is a far cry from claiming that I have all the answers.
My work may be of no use to you, but in the short time my research has been publicly posted a mathematical proof has been written and published, and ground breaking progress has been made on “retention” Magic Squares in the Luo Shu format.
I do not have to explain why the number seven is so significant, it is enough to demonstrate how the number seven plays a significant role in understanding the “language of numbers”.
Other people can explain why this, or philosophize about that. That is the point of research, to open the minds of people and stimulate thought as well as to interact with one another. And if were lucky, we evolve. There is no evolution with judgements and criticisms.
This work represents the beginning of much more research and insight into Magic Squares in the Luo Shu format. This is not for everybody, it is for people with open minds who seek knowledge or entertainment. It is good, innocent fun and a great way to use the mind.
Persistence, confidence, and hard work will triumph in the end.
Robert Dickter, author, Number, Time, and Archetype webmaster of www.luo-shu.com
"The plot of Beelzebub's Tales primarily revolves around the ruminations of an extraterrestrial known as "Beelzebub" to his grandson Hassein, as they travel through space towards Beelzebub's home planet "Karatas" on the spaceship Karnak. It mainly recounts the adventures and travails of Beelzebub amongst the 'three-brained beings' (humans) of the planet Earth. Beelzebub covers the entire history of the strange behaviors and customs of these beings.""Choon-Kil-Tez and Choon-Tro-Pel are Chinese twin brothers who rediscovered the law of sevenfoldness"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beelzebub's_Tales_to_His_Grandson
http://www.endlesssearch.co.uk/philo_neologism_talk_ae2008.htm
I found these articles on the same web site you recommended in the above post.
Hallo Panther,"Choon-Kil-Tez and Choon-Tro-Pel are Chinese twin brothers who rediscovered the law of sevenfoldness"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beelzebub's_Tales_to_His_Grandson
".... Law of Heptaparashinokh, and are the scientific terms used by the Chinese scientists to explain their Law of Ninefoldness. http://www.endlesssearch.co.uk/philo_neologism_talk_ae2008.htm
Hallo Robert,Erime,
I have been giving this some thought. I think the Luo Shu can be used to follow the numbers and their corresponding elements as such:
I will try and explain.
In the Diagram Preceding Heaven, earth starts in the position that corresponds with one in the Luo Shu and ends in the position that corresponds with the number two in the Diagram Succeeding Heaven. This in turn results in wood (which starts in the number 2 position) getting displaced into metal's position (which corresponds to the number 4 position). And so on.
Please use the model in the above mentioned web site along with the Diagram Preceding and Succeeding Heaven, as well as the Luo Shu.
There appear to be two cycles, perhaps one representing yin and one yang:
First cycle: 1 - 2 - 4 and 7 ends the cycle. One doubles to two, two doubles to four, then seven and repeat. An easy to see arithmetic progression.
Second cycle: 3 - 9 - 6 and 8 ends the cycle. 3 squared is 9, 9 minus 3 = 6.
Or, if x = 3, then the pattern is: x……x*x……x*x – x, this being our familiar ternary notation progression????
Fire is not in the first cycle, water is absent the second cycle. And everything rotates around 5, earth.
This may not make any sense so please excuse my efforts, if however you can make any logic out of this, please respond!
{Reference: A Companion To Yi Jing Numerology and Cosmology by Brent Nielsen (2003) plate 4 and plate 7
robertluoshu at www.luo-shu.com
Frank,Hallo Panther,
It has been years ago that I read Beelzebub, intriging, strange but interesting book. But cann you explain in short what was meant with " the law of sevenfoldness" and "the law of Ninefoldness".
Cannot remember what he wrote about this anymore?
Thanks
There is a very interesting book about the Enneagrams from Laleh Bakthiar http://www.amazon.com/Moral-Healers-Handbook-Psychology-Spiritual/dp/1871031397/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1262012314&sr=8-1
In her book she found 64 possible Moral Balance/Imbalances. Using the enneagram types. With this I found a key to change this to the hexagrams. I gave already some lectures about this and it really worked. Were some very interesting evenings I had with severall groups.
A thread from some years ago about this subject (post 9 till the end, the images are not there anymore)http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=315
Frank
Robertluoshu,Found a web site that ties in the Enneagram, Gurdjief and his holy dances, Ouspensky, von Franz, Jung, Eliade, music, the Lo Shu, the Ho Tu, the I Ching....its got everybody and everything 'cept Karnac the UFO.
robertluoshu at www.luo-shu.com
Hello Votri,Robertluoshu,
That link doesn't show the correct way of connecting the He Tu (Ha Do) to the Enneagram of Personality. The Asian way of showing the enneagram is:
VoTri
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).