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The NeverEnding Thread and Continuing Saga

arabella

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It's almost a matter of scientific enquiry by now that I am plotting what is happening in a relationship by means of the IChing and using the information that I either find or am directly given on this site. As divined by Willow Fox, this relationship went forward last week in the manner of a "Spring thaw", after a year of waffling and not really moving. We actually had a dinner together at his place, BUT lo and behold, a third person had been invited to join us midway through the evening, which I found kind of unusual, believing when I went there that this invitation was something else. Then it dawned on me, [being fairly dense I think in relation to male behavior] that the evening was perhaps just an attempt to say "thank you" for kindnesses received, not necessarily any more than that. I was rather shattered really, but over the course of three more days I've decided I have to accept reality -- if that's the true reality of the situation.

To be sure what is happening, tonight, I've asked for clarification of this relationship [again, O Lord, again] in this question: Where and how do our lives fit together, if they do?

I got 35, unchanging, which I know as "Easy Progress" with the implication that things just sail forward, and yet, I just don't see it. Of course I couldn't believe I'd soon be seeing advancement of the nature WF foresaw last week either. But, unless I'm totally off base in regard to the message being sent by this dinner invitation, 35 seems VERY optimistic. Suggestions or interpretations? Thanks in advance for all help.
 
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patro

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hi,
why do you ad to your question "if they do?".
it can bring a little confusion to which part of the question the I Ching is referring the answer.
I think the best way is to change the words of the question and retry to ask.
by the way 35 is a great hex it's very positive but I'm not sure in this case.
Patro
 

arabella

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I guess I put that on the end because I'm not sure if our lives do "fit" since the mood seems to change in such random ways. Sometimes so positive, and then the connection seems to disappear or be something I can't figure out. Meanwhile, I've felt strongly about this person since I met him -- for some reason I'm still trying to understand. I suppose in putting that disclaimer I'm visualising that the IChing needs the option to say this connection isn't there and it's my imagination. So that's probably my limitation, rather than any limitation of the IChing to say what it wants to!
 

patro

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hi Arabella,
what you say was for me just clear at the first time that I read your first post of this thread.
the problem is to understand to which part is 35 to referring.
so if 35 is to refer to "Where and how do our lives fit together" than it's ok... 35 is a good omen!!!
but if 35 is referring to "if they do?"... 35 mean that you are making progress in understanding what the situation is and it's not good regarding for what do you wish with him.
Patro
 

lucia

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I've said it before and I'll say it again but I have found that perhaps two of the most useful questions are:

what do I need to know about the relatonship with x (or whatever you need to know about)........

What do I need to understand about the relationship etc.,

Patros is right......... unclear questions produce unclear answers. The two questions above leave it open (as to whether/how you fit or not etc.,)

Of course if you have already asked those questions then you have your answer.

Over in exploring divination is an excellent thread started by Hilary in her blog on unchanging hexes. They even discuss 35. It might be useful no?

my personal view is similar to Hilary's with the added thought that in my many years of journals I find they throw me back on myself in some way.

L
 

willowfox

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question: Where and how do our lives fit together, if they do?

I got 35, unchanging
Your lives do fit together as this hex does indeed show, but at the moment he seems more dependent on your goodwill and charity, as you have been very helpful and supportive to him and obviously he is very pleased about that.

Now all this goodwill leads to trust and this man needs to be able to trust you fully, but as you can see, you are indeed a team in a way. You like him and quietly, he likes you but is much more reserved in his show of affection. It appears that he doesn't want to come across as being improper in his conduct, therefore he keeps acting as the perfect gentleman.

If he didn't have feelings for you then I'm sure that you would hardly ever see the man but obviously he does have warm feelings for you.

Now to the problem of how to ask a "proper" question. Always be very specific when asking a question, and keep your question short and to the point.
I agree with others that vagueness is a killer because if your question is misty then your answer is going to be darn foggy.

Again I will state that in Asia today, question are always short and sweet, as they were in centuries gone by. It is the western mind that thinks one cannot ask a yes/no type question and that all questions should be a paragraph in length.
 

arabella

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Sorry not to come back with a response sooner. This is a work day for me. And I spent every spare minute thinking about what has been said thus far. I decided to try to get focused better, to ask a few questions based on Lucia's expectations of enquiry, and a few based on Willow Fox's preferred style of enquiry.

First I thought I'd ask the question Lucia recommended, as she has brought it up a few times, and I haven't done it:

What do I need to understand about this relationship? I got hexagram 14.6 changing to 34.

Which seems to point at what Willow Fox was saying, about him being especially gentlemanly. Which he truly is. And that is one of the main points of confusion. I can't ever tell if his response to me is good manners, or straight from the heart. I don't suppose one excludes the other, but I wonder if a dinner invitation with a third party invited to join in for dessert is terribly significant in any romantic sense? I guess though it can be if he is concerned about looking like a wolf in sheeps clothing. See how I go in circles?

Anyway, he said the dinner was to "say thank you" and maybe that is it, plain and simple, and I should expect to hear no more. But I've determined not to prolong this as a "charitable effort" which Willow alluded to, simply because I need to know if I'm in this alone, or with a potential partner.

So I asked, What are the chances of hearing further from him if I make no more supportive effort? I got hexagram 64, changing lines 2 -- becoming hexagram 16. This sounds like something about him drinking too much? Or is that purely symbolic? Enthusiasm seems good. That is, if it didn't just emerge from drinking!

Besides that, since he is leaving for a few weeks on a holiday trip I thought I'd ask what happens between us on his return. {After all, they say absence makes the heart grow fonder.]

So I asked the question, When he returns, will he actively pursue a relationship with me?.....and got Hexagram 44 unchanging. Well this sounds pretty bad. Isn't that about a seductive woman that men should avoid? Well, I'm seriously interested maybe, but not seductive, cross my heart.

OK, final request of the IChng..... at dinner we talked about our respective marriages a bit. Fairly light-hearted, but since mine was a horror, things were mentioned that aren't entirely festive. After, I wondered if I just should have let him talk and left it at that. SO, I asked IChing, was discussing my marriage a good idea? And I got Hexgram 8, unchanging. I understand if you get this casting, you must enquire again, which I did and got hexgram 38, changing line 3, becoming hexagram 14. So, opposition in some form, and alienation?


Sounds like a situation on a downhill run? WOW, not what I expected. Can anybody shed further light now? Meanwhile, I think I'll go hide under the bed.
 
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willowfox

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What do I need to understand about this relationship? I got hexagram 14.6 changing to 34.


So I asked, What are the chances of hearing further from him if I make no more supportive effort? I got hexagram 64, changing lines 2 -- becoming hexagram 16.


So I asked the question, When he returns, will he actively pursue a relationship with me?.....and got Hexagram 44 unchanging.

SO, I asked I Ching, was discussing my marriage a good idea? And I got Hexgram 8, unchanging. I understand if you get this casting, you must enquire again, which I did and got hexgram 38, changing line 3, becoming hexagram 14.

14.6 > 34 I think that you just need to have faith, the belief that it will work out fine providing you just let him adjust to you in his own snail type way because stepping on his shell would indeed create a sticky mess.


64.2 > 16 Oh yes you will hear from him that's for sure but don't withdraw your support for too long, as you may just ruin the party.

Hex 44 This does suggest action, the man will appear to be more interested in you, as the attraction is gaining ground but just let it happen.

Hex 8 It seems that the discussion was okay because in a way you both have something in common, you were both hurt by previous partners, you in the marriage and him by death, so now he has something else to think about while he makes up his mind how close to get. But the bond is there, you just need to add some super glue now.
 

arabella

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Sigh of relief, Willow Fox. It was sounding dire from what I could "divine." As you have said, short and to the point, and you read them all in a positive way, which I'm happy and surprised to know. I love the images you use, making your reading even more precise.

Could I ask, please, what sort of different interpretation you put on Hexagram 44. Is it really just about attraction? It sounds a bit "low life" when you read the text in Wilhelm and I thought pretty alarming.

Your perceptions of the man in question, by the way, are dead on. He is a high flying, risk taker in business and has done very well. But at home he's a lover of security and stability and obviously hates to see any of that scenery change. And you couldn't be more gentlemanly proper than he is.

I asked, as a follow up "What should I use for the super glue that WF has recommended." I didn't know if IChing would take me seriously and answer this metaphorical question, but I got Hexagram 37, moving line 5, becoming 22.

Then I got totally carried away and asked, "WHEN will he decide to have this relationship with me?" And I got Hexagram 50, changing lines 4,5, and 6, becoming hexagram 42.

To an amateur, this sounds like he's dumped his emotions out on the ground, all of the past, and is actively sorting and putting it to rest. Which sounds accurate. But does it have any elements of "when" there is a resolution to go forward? Are "when" questions ok in your experience? I've heard mixed reactions to those enquiries: some who apppear to think you can read for "when" and others who say it's impossible.

I don't want to wear out my welcome, but hope you, and any others who feel so inclined, might read those.

Thanks very much to all on the Forum for looking at these enquiries over the past few months. Lucia, you have been the consistent voice for asking different questions that accord with the wisdom of many here. And, as you can see, I am listening, trying your approach, and I hope you will comment further on what you see as the differences here in the resulting response from IChing.

Willow Fox, what can I say, you are unique and I'm amazed how you just "cut to the chase" in something so complex to read -- both my situation and the IChing's response. Many thanks.
 

willowfox

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I asked, as a follow up "What should I use for the super glue that WF has recommended." Hexagram 37. 5, becoming 22.

Then I got totally carried away and asked, "WHEN will he decide to have this relationship with me?" And I got Hexagram 50. 4,5, and 6, becoming hexagram 42.
Trust and love are the super glue of the universe, well his universe.

As to when, Hex 50 and lines suggest that things are still cooking, the main course is still in baking in the oven, so it will be when he finally realizes your worth.
 

arabella

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I've pondered this overnight Willow Fox since, as you can imagine, this still leaves endless room for him to go on and on, which I'm not interested in doing -- at least not consciously. I don't think I can do it. So I'm looking for where we reach a point of certainty.

Following on your premise of him knowing my worth to him in any illuminating way, I asked "When is he going to see my true worth to him as a partner?" and got Hexagram 48, unchanging. Which sounds to me like I just have to wait and see and continue to be the endless source until a big hand comes from the sky and bapps him on the noggin.

I don't know if this is a fair question for the IChing, or not, but trying to be even more specific I then asked "In what month is he going to realise the value of our relationship?" Maybe IChing was reacting to me, rather than the question itself, because the answer was in turbulent terms:

Hexagram 21, changing line 6, becoming 51. Does that point to a month, or to me being told off for a question couched in such demanding terms?
 

Trojina

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Sigh of relief, Willow Fox. It was sounding dire from what I could "divine." As you have said, short and to the point, and you read them all in a positive way, which I'm happy and surprised to know. I love the images you use, making your reading even more precise.

Could I ask, please, what sort of different interpretation you put on Hexagram 44. Is it really just about attraction? It sounds a bit "low life" when you read the text in Wilhelm and I thought pretty alarming.

Your perceptions of the man in question, by the way, are dead on. He is a high flying, risk taker in business and has done very well. But at home he's a lover of security and stability and obviously hates to see any of that scenery change. And you couldn't be more gentlemanly proper than he is.

I asked, as a follow up "What should I use for the super glue that WF has recommended." I didn't know if IChing would take me seriously and answer this metaphorical question, but I got Hexagram 37, moving line 5, becoming 22.

Then I got totally carried away and asked, "WHEN will he decide to have this relationship with me?" And I got Hexagram 50, changing lines 4,5, and 6, becoming hexagram 42.

To an amateur, this sounds like he's dumped his emotions out on the ground, all of the past, and is actively sorting and putting it to rest. Which sounds accurate. But does it have any elements of "when" there is a resolution to go forward? Are "when" questions ok in your experience? I've heard mixed reactions to those enquiries: some who apppear to think you can read for "when" and others who say it's impossible.



.
First don't think you are an amatuer..there isn't anyone here more skilled than you are in building and understanding your own relationships....and hes even more of an expert in his own feelings. Do you have any good reason to think he wants the kind of relationship with you that you want with him ?

I personally think you are in danger of getting totally lost by asking questions that are based on false assumptions...or at least they may be false.
 
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willowfox

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"When is he going to see my true worth to him as a partner?" and got Hexagram 48, unchanging.

Hexagram 21, changing line 6, becoming 51.
Firstly, you can ask what you like, and your question about a date is perfectly valid but just rather difficult to pinpoint.


Hex 48 gives the idea of support once again, but this time you should invite him around for a meal, show him how a good woman can cook and look after their partners. You show your true worth by what you can do, by caring, helping, listening and talking, showing respect etc., it all adds up to hopefully overcome the barrier.

Now, Hex 48 indicates the beginning of June, while Hex 51 indicates April/May.
 

Trojina

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I've pondered this overnight Willow Fox since, as you can imagine, this still leaves endless room for him to go on and on, which I'm not interested in doing -- at least not consciously. I don't think I can do it. So I'm looking for where we reach a point of certainty.

Following on your premise of him knowing my worth to him in any illuminating way, I asked "When is he going to see my true worth to him as a partner?" and got Hexagram 48, unchanging. Which sounds to me like I just have to wait and see and continue to be the endless source until a big hand comes from the sky and bapps him on the noggin.

I don't know if this is a fair question for the IChing, or not, but trying to be even more specific I then asked "In what month is he going to realise the value of our relationship?" Maybe IChing was reacting to me, rather than the question itself, because the answer was in turbulent terms:

Hexagram 21, changing line 6, becoming 51. Does that point to a month, or to me being told off for a question couched in such demanding terms?
About this question, its a question thats based on the assumption that at some point in time he is going to realise the value of the reationship...well realising the value of the relationship is a subjective thing..its not like at 8.30 pm on March 23rd his brain is going to go 'ping' and he realises the value of the relationship. And anyway who can quantify what the value of the relationshp is anyway..it doesn't have any measurable objective value. Its just a question that i think it would be very hard to interpret the answer to

You can ask what you like of course...but this is not an effective question IMO ...and then you asked in what month ..and you get 21.6 telling you you are completely missing the point, you aren't hearing, take it as a warning. Maybe it would make more sense to have a good look at how he treats you, may be even talk to him about the relationship...all I'm saying is be wary of building each question progressively on the erroneous conclusions drawn from previous answers in themselves based on false assumptions,,...if that makes sense
 
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arabella

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Again many thanks, Willow Fox for following my line of questioning and answering my concerns. You have never failed to come through.

I also appreciate your interest in the "saga" that has gone on here Trojan, and hearing your point of view. Your concern that I'm not just deluding myself has been my own worry from the start.

If you look back in the history of what I've been asking over several months in various ways, it has been my awareness that this man is being polite, as he is to everyone, that has kept me confused. The way he behaves is nearly inscrutable, and not entirely consistent. We have spent a lot of time together, been thrown together in some situations and invited each other to various gatherings. Each meeting has been somewhat different. Our circumstances are very different in relation to previous marriage and how a new relationship would compare. He almost can't do as well, I would hope never to suffer that much again.

This is what has inspired me to turn to the IChing in the situation, because I feel the interest from him, and then in a blink, it is as though that didn't exist. Quite confusing and complicated by what I suspect are his lingering guilt and grief for a wife who was much loved and died. I don't think he is indifferent at any point, he is entirely hospitable and seeks me out in various ways, but he is certainly torn by emotions that pull him one way and then another. In the long term I know from my own experiences, he will have to choose life for himself.

And I have enquired earlier on does he want a romantic relationship and does he want that with me -- both answered in the affirmative. So I am going on the premise now that he could recover in months, or in years, but he will gather himself at some point. The question is "when?" Because presumably this bond that we have as friends is important to him, as it is to me. That much the IChing has confirmed consistently.

In any case April, May, June are close at hand. The result in relation to what we're discussing today will be obvious quite soon, so it's not as though I have years to know the truth of the matter firsthand. And I have to bow to the formidable reputation of WillowFox no matter what transpires in this situation.

Again, thank you to all who have helped with trying to untangle and divine the situation. That caring is deeply appreciated, whatever the outcome.
 
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Trojina

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I also appreciate your interest in the "saga" that has gone on here Trojan, and hearing your point of view. Your concern that I'm not just deluding myself has been my own worry from the start.





And I have enquired earlier on does he want a romantic relationship and does he want that with me -- both answered in the affirmative.
So I am going on the premise now that he could recover in months, or in years, but he will gather himself at some point. The question is "when?" Because presumably this bond that we have as friends is important to him, as it is to me. That much the IChing has confirmed consistently.

.
I haven't followed your story, just read this thread so its true I'm not so aware of the background.

I'm not saying you are deluding yourself...but i do question the above statement underlined. IMO there is no answer from the Yi alone that can categorically tell you someone wants a relationship with you. So I'd disagree with you you got an affirmative answer...or a negative answer.

But thats only my opinion
 
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arabella

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Hello again, Trojan. I take your position entirely to heart. Perhaps "the affirmative" is the wrong term to use. The castings for our relationship possibilities and his interest versus his reticence indicated that he is having problems recovering from grief and trusting a relationship again, but is "game" so to speak, although very slow in making up his mind about anything. This is his way in most respects I believe.

I'm aware that there is a "probability" and an interpretation involved here, that people reading on this site aren't offering a prescription but an opinion. I've noted how many time people disagree, here and elsewhere, on the subject of divination, whether through tarot, astrology, the IChing or via other means.

Obviously where opinions are utterly opposed, one of the opinions must be wrong. It would appear here that you are saying 21.6 is telling me that either there is no relationship,or that I haven't been listening or paying attention and for whatever reason, I am in for a shock. This was my very fear in the first place, that I'd misinterpreted what his interest was about AND what his reticence was about. Because he is both in turns. So if this is your reading, it doesn't shock me in the least.

I'd only be surprised if that turned out to be the fact of the matter, because a multitude of castings leading up to this point -- mostly interpreted by Willow Fox out of the goodness of her heart -- have seemed quite positive.
 

Trojina

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Obviously where opinions are utterly opposed, one of the opinions must be wrong. It would appear here that you are saying 21.6 is telling me that either there is no relationship,or that I haven't been listening or paying attention and for whatever reason, I am in for a shock. This was my very fear in the first place, that I'd misinterpreted what his interest was about AND what his reticence was about. Because he is both in turns. So if this is your reading, it doesn't shock me in the least.

.
No, to be fair I cannot say that because i haven't paid enough attention to your previous readings on other threads. I guess i was just throwing in a rather generalised warning at this point. Its not that I can see you won't have a relationship or anything like that...I'm just saying it goes beyond counting how many people think they follow positive signals re romance from their answers..and then 6 months down the line when what they thought would happen hasn't happened they say 'why did the I Ching lie to me'.


It didn't lie to them its just they took their eyes off what the guy was saying to them in his actions and his words, they stopped listening to him and started having a relationship with their image of him via the Yi.

Anyway yes disregard my comments if you like...they are general, i don't know enough about your situation to comment really...but in general 21.6 says you really aren't hearing the message
 

arabella

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Trojan, point taken. I know the IChing can only respond sensibly where people are sensible themselves. From experience of casting I know too that sometimes a cast feels "dead on" because I was really focused, and other times a bit wishy washy. And then I'm posting up here for yet another person or two to try to render their best opinion. It's not science in it's best form, is it? Yet I've often found the IChing entirely thought provoking [even comic], learned a lot on this forum and also gained an appreciate that so many people in the world are concerned for others [total strangers] and what experience they have of life. That can only be good. But having a relationship with the IChing instead of a person really isn't on.
 

Trojina

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FWIW I think when someone uses the Yi in conjunction with talking to the love interest then it can be very illuminating...especially as i am more and more of the opinion that Yis answers are very immediate, ie only dealing with the now esp re relationships.

It might help if you asked smaller questions re the progression of the relationship...like if you haven't asked already, a question about that dinner date where a third person turned up !

In your shoes I would have probably gone home and asked 'how should i take that' as in 'how do I accomodate or interpet his actions here...how do I take them?'. Sometimes littler questions about each step of the way are more helpful than 'bigger' questions like "will we be together" etc

See you asked, after the dinner 'how do our lives fit together' whereas i reckon what might have more useful at that moment was to know "what the **** was he playing at tonight ?!" except i wouldn't ask from his POV its too hard to interpret...works better IMO to ask 'how should i take that behaviour' etc...now if you got 33.6 to that question you'd be pretty clear it wasn't a promising sign

What you are trying to do with him here is read the signs, using Yi to help you read the signs...but maybe the signs are in the details..hence you need to ask about the details of each encounter etc. Of course sometimes it helpful to get the over view but right now seems to me you need help interpetingthe little signs. Now Yi is very good at that IMO ! Also of course you could ask for advice on your best approach to him...kind of less fatalistic than 'how do our lives fit'..gives you more idea of what to do, how to play it....you know change the emphasis to what you do rather than just waiting for him to recover or not recover...though maybe you already did that on other threads

35 unchanging can indicate alot of potential but you have to decide how you are going to use it..it doesn't just happen by itself it calls for a more proactive approach i think...its like you have some favour and attention...but what are you going to do with it ?
 
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arabella

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Thanks Trojan, that is really helpful in posing more productive questions. Actually it is the details that baffle me completely. I can't believe it's purposeful on his part, yet I did go home from that dinner, as you say, thinking "What the ********* was that about?" I mean, why didn't he SAY from the start somebody else was coming along? Or, did he freak out at the last minute and decide to have a chaperone? No idea.

The feelings he is experiencing as a widower may be big scale emotion, but the behaviors that demonstrate the sense of limitation or confusion can be minute. For instance, I know it feels weird when you've been married a couple decades and then you're suddenly NOT anymore and you don't know how to behave as a single. Been there, done that. You forget how to walk into a room alone, how to talk about yourself as ME not WE. He still talks about his deceased wife like she's in the next room. You can only do that for so long, and then it's downright silly. You even begin to forget all the bits of the relationship and can't bring the person up all the time as effectively. This can't be his way of life indefinitely. And, quite honestly, I don't know why he thinks the world should find it endlessly interesting either. To me, it's the self indulgent behavior of grief....probably.

And I know mourning can leave you rather blank on small talk. Even though my husband wasn't a nice guy....well maybe the mourning process is just as bad because of all the things you WISH had been happened....and wish had never happened. So I understand grief a bit myself and the strain on the one who remains. I'm willing to allow room for all of it and be understanding. But if somebody wants to wallow in it, I'm on the next train. And this is where I've been attempting to be ahead of events in my questions and really can't. Really, I'd like to know whether he WANTS a better situation or loves his misery. You can't ask that so effectively, can you?

Anyhow, you can easily see all the potential for behavior patterns that have no discernable pattern at all. So the little questions might be more telling. I'll start jotting them down and see where it takes me. But of course you realise what this means: OH NO here goes the NeverEnding Thread and continuing saga again!
 

arabella

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OK, for starters on this new wavelength, I asked the question suggested by Trojan --

"How should I interpret his inviting XXXXX to join us?" And the IChing gave me hexagram 15, changing lines 1,3,4, which becomes hexagram 51. So we're demonstrating good manners, but somehow coming right back to shock. The same place that 21.6 took us. Hmmmm.

The starting place here is integrity then, being careful of how you come across socially? That sounds like him. Above all, he is very mannerly and generally proper. So where does SHOCK come in?

To make life even more exciting, I followed this question with, "Why didn't he tell me in the beginning that another person was invited?" Good grief, Hexagram 15 yet again, changing line 3, becoming Hexagram 2. Right.

Not that it's crystal clear to me, but i just have to laugh seeing this result so far. On this basis, asking small questions, I bet nearly EVERY ONE begins with hexagram 15. Proper gentleman coping with unthinkable conditions in his life. Really interesting to see it so blatantly.

Love to hear other interpretations of how this new method of enquiry has turned out so far.
 

Trojina

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OK, for starters on this new wavelength, I asked the question suggested by Trojan --

"How should I interpret his inviting XXXXX to join us?" And the IChing gave me hexagram 15, changing lines 1,3,4, which becomes hexagram 51. So we're demonstrating good manners, but somehow coming right back to shock. The same place that 21.6 took us. Hmmmm.

The starting place here is integrity then, being careful of how you come across socially? That sounds like him. Above all, he is very mannerly and generally proper. So where does SHOCK come in?

To make life even more exciting, I followed this question with, "Why didn't he tell me in the beginning that another person was invited?" Good grief, Hexagram 15 yet again, changing line 3, becoming Hexagram 2. Right.

Not that it's crystal clear to me, but i just have to laugh seeing this result so far. On this basis, asking small questions, I bet nearly EVERY ONE begins with hexagram 15. Proper gentleman coping with unthinkable conditions in his life. Really interesting to see it so blatantly.

Love to hear other interpretations of how this new method of enquiry has turned out so far.
:rofl::duh: you didn't waste any time there then did you...that will teach me to make suggestions like that ! But 15 twice !?

I see the 51 as the background, the context and clearly there is something in the situation between you thats both exciting and disturbing for him and like you say against this turmoil within he tries to act with integrity. I think the 15 is more than being socially careful, more than good manners, its true integrity...he isn't being false by his action of inviting another to dinner..in his own way perhaps he sees himself as being honest with you...er honestly ambivalent !

Well he seems like a decent guy anyway.!..if thats any consolation. Its possible the 15 is suggesting you take it very matter of factly...you know against the backdrop of your emotions shaking you up you take things very much as they appear. He invited you to dinner, he also invited someone else also...but then if you take it like that it definatley suggests friendship rather than romance doesn't it..or at least that he wants the possibility of romance at arms length...because he is such a decent man :rolleyes:

Whether you think the 15 applies to him or the way you should take it is up to you to decide...but seems your instinct is telling you its him

well what a gentleman ! ;)
 
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arabella

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You know, another possibility is that I am rather shocking for him. Which could be where the 51 backdrop comes from. My life has not been so regulated and conservative as his. Not that I wouldn't have like that, but events conspired to create an incredible rollercoaster existence lived all over the world. I told him just a bit about it at dinner and his fork stopped in mid-air. It may just be hard for him to comprehend.

Or 51 is significant as Willow Fox says, because it confirms something outstanding and positive about our relationship in April/May. Anyway, I'll keep you posted!
 

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