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davy

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In all actuality, I believe that Yi answers our questions with the obvious. It tells me what I already know, IF I have enough intuition to have searched my insides to begin with.

It CANNOT tell the future, and so, all my hopes and dreams about the future is wrapped up in what the oracle cannot do (tell the future), so it muddles and confuses itself with what my question is. The obvious is what is happening at this moment. If I ask, will I ever get married, it responds with something that it thinks I need to know NOW. For instance it responded with attraction, supreme success. Of course I have to be attracted.

With the changing lines
Nervously shaking his leg shows his irresistible urge to advance.
Misfortune if he does.
Good fortune if he doesn't.

Of course I am nervous about it, I don't know anyone. Of course it is good fortune if I don't because I would be psychologically nutty if I tried to marry someone that isn't there. No girlfriend equals in need of one. To pretend one is there is insanity.

Followed by

Kuai / Breakthrough

A Deluge from Heaven:
The Superior Person rains fortune upon those in need, then moves on with no thought of the good he does.


In other words, being and making myself available to those chickados out there, is indeed doing a good thing. No brainer there.

The issue must be raised before an impartial authority.

I must get the approval of society first and her mother. Social more's rule here.

Be sincere and earnest, despite the danger.

In other words, put on our best behaviour, smile, be nice, be polite and use manners.

Do not try to force the outcome, but seek support where needed.

Try not to cry and pitch a fit if a girl doesn't respond to my charms as quickly as I think she should. Or hit another guy if he is hitting on the same girl

Set a clear goal.

In other words, I am not partial to brunettes with a bad attitude, but I love ditsy blonds.

The Yi answers time questions in much the same way. If I ask, what time is it. It will respond with the most obvious answer. It is time to yield, to rest, to whatever. It may be a bit esoteric at times, but we will read into the text whatever seem most apropos at the time.

The Yi becomes more confusing with all the unorthodox ways it says things, thus the esoteric facade, but when broken down to the language we talk everyday, it gives the most obvious answers anyway. If I ask about the girl who cut me short on a phone conversation, the most obvious reasons are, she tired, she hungry, wants to wash her hair, and the most obvious thing for me to do is leave her alone, seek other company, a better girly friend who will be a bit more polite, and find my center, which means to accept things as they are without making a big deal out of it.

If I ask if I am going to marry someone, it might give a great answer one time and the opposite answer the next. It is as if it want us to explore all possibilities of our unconscious mind despite the truth of the matter.

For instance, I asked the oracle what's happening with the males in so and so family It answered back, great good fortune! Well, there are no males in the family. In fact, the male recently died a tragic death. He was deeply loved. It could have answered something a little more appropriate.

My last point is that the Yi answers inappropriately. If it doesn't give the most obvious, then it is quite esoteric, and to me a beginner, that esoteric answer is inappropriate. It is like sitting in front of a teacher and asking, what is the innermost planet of our solar system? and the teacher answers back, there is no innermost planet, they are all innermost, or they don't exist, the fox gets his tail wet, do not cross the river. A person can get quite confused. A good teacher dispels confusion and creates a high degree of trust by telling the trust in the most direct way possible.

I will be interesting to see what kind of responses I get. Of course, you all know I am playing the devil's advocate here. :bows:
 

tobiasosir

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I hope I can give you an interesting answer!

I see two main points with your post: that the I Ching can't tell the future--which seems to be a challenge--and that the answers it provides are by turns obvious or completely obscure. I think you're right on all counts, but this is a good thing.

If you go back to the original meaning of the term Oracle in ancient Greece, you find that it wasn't about telling the future so much as giving advice. The Oracle at Delphi was famous for people going to it to ask if they should do this or that, and (like your experience with the I Ching,) the answers were obscure and given in riddles. In fact, Greek literature is filled with examples of people who went to the oracle, misinterpreted an answer they didn't understand, and ended up fulfilling a prophecy they wanted to avoid.
But that's the point: these people were forcing their own ideas onto the answers they got; they thought too hard on them, and came up with answers they didn't like, and so the oracle worked against them.

In my experience with Tarot (going on seven or eight year,s on and off,) I've come to realize that divination--as far as telling the future--isn't really the point. People will ask if they'll find love, get rich, or become famous, but that's not what the tarot reveals; rather, it gives you a "snapshot" of the way your life is right at this moment, and provides advice on how you can proceed to get where you want to go. I think the I Ching works in a similar way.
So if you find the answer to be obscure, perhaps you need to rephrase it. Instead of asking "wil I get X," ask "what can I do to get X?" This does a couple things. First, it gives the oracle something easier to work with; rather than providing a firm outcome, and quite possibly an answer you don't want to hear, it can give you a path to follow. The answer you receive in this light will be easier to interpret, because you're not "forcing a future" on it (if that makes any sense).
Secondly, it put the onus on you, as the querent, to find a solution. Remember, the oracle is Advising, not Prophesying. You can take the answer as you will, but it's not the I Ching's fault if this doesn't lead where you want to go. There is a quote from the Tao te Ching: "If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are going." This can be interpreted both positively and negatively; it's up to the traveller to follow the road, and which road to follow. The road has nothing to do with it.

This all leads into Taoist philosophy, which is strongly connected to the I Ching. The Oracle came first, but heavily influenced Lao Tze, (the author or the Tao te Ching), and the movement as a whole. One of the prime tenets of Taoism is that the Universe has it's own nature and way of getting things done. We, as intelligent beings, have the ability to follow or deviate from that nature, but if difficulties arise, it's only because we're going against that Nature.
Think of swimming in a river. If you swim against the current, you will tire easily and have to stop eventually. If you "go with the flow," you will not only find the journey much easier, you'll go further and faster.

Divination is like that, too. If you're having trouble interpreting the I Ching, I'd recommend reading the Tao te Ching (if you havne't already). Study the two alongside each other. You may find that things become clearer.

As for obscurity vs being obvious...again, my experience with tarot has shown me that I'm not using the cards to find an answer; it's almost the other way around. The cards "are what they are," the tough part comes in how I interpret them, and in the arrangement they show themselves in. It takes a lot of practise and learning--I'm not halfway there yet, though I'm told I have a knack--but when the answers come to you, you'll know. The interpretation you give of your hexagram is thoughtful, but I think you may be putting too much of the situation into it. Meditate on the answer as well; you'll gain insights about it that may not seem to relate to the situation at first--but of course, they do.
You also note that sometimes the Oracle will give you two different answers to the same question. Remember what I said about "snapshots" earlier? The same thing applies. Everything is in constant flux--the book is called The Book of Changes for no small reason--and so the conditions under which you ask the question once are different the second time around. Take those conditions into consideration as well when you interpret the answer. If the Oracle tells you once that you should wait, but tells you to proceed next time, perhaps the situation has changed such that the time is right now.

I have more to say, but I'm going to stop there for now. This is my first post to this board, and it's already much longer than I'd intended...hope that made some sense!
 

heylise

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Even you yourself have changed after the first time you ask the question: you got an answer which you didn't have before.
So maybe Yi says "how about proceeding" and with the next question "what if you don't proceed?"

There are many roads to Rome.
 
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sooo

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The only thing the oracle can not do is to be told what it can not do.

It can tell the future, sometimes conditionally, ie: if you do this, then this; if you don't do this, then that; or unconditionally, ie: this is going to happen, or, that is not going to happen (ie: no game in the field - 32.4); or, it will advise wise or advantageous action or thought, which can be either directly related to the question or entirely unrelated to the question, or related to the cause of the question.

However, one is perfectly free to set their own limitations on what they will allow or accept from the oracle.
 

anemos

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I hope I can give you an interesting answer!

I see two main points with your post: that the I Ching can't tell the future--which seems to be a challenge--and that the answers it provides are by turns obvious or completely obscure. I think you're right on all counts, but this is a good thing.

If you go back to the original meaning of the term Oracle in ancient Greece, you find that it wasn't about telling the future so much as giving advice. The Oracle at Delphi was famous for people going to it to ask if they should do this or that, and (like your experience with the I Ching,) the answers were obscure and given in riddles. In fact, Greek literature is filled with examples of people who went to the oracle, misinterpreted an answer they didn't understand, and ended up fulfilling a prophecy they wanted to avoid.
But that's the point: these people were forcing their own ideas onto the answers they got; they thought too hard on them, and came up with answers they didn't like, and so the oracle worked against them.
don't know how we "define" future, prediction and advise here. You project fact to the future to give an advise , isn't it ?
 

anemos

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is there such a things as "now" or is just a construction, a borderline between past and future ? How much it lasts, how can we measure it ?

I used to ask " what do i need to know Now" but it doesn't makes any sense to me lately, so I omit that word. It makes me feel still, disconnected from the process, the flow. Absent. Now is not about present time, its being present.

have been trying to see "now". I brought a river in my mind, the time it is created. The water comes out of the spring and fills the empty space, creates a path to reach the sea. I tried to see it in a slow motion to mark "now". I couldn't. I could see river's past, the water that had already cover the empty space(63). I could see the river's future... the infinite potential futures(64) but I had to stop the flow to see "now".

Which hex is "now" was what I asked then. H5 was the first thing I thought. being present. eating and drinking

Now could be 11 also. disconnected ? 12 ?

:eek: i lost "now" ;)
 

chingching

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Sooo, you're alive with a new avatar! Must be that aqua new moon!
 

chingching

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I believe the messages we get through use of an oracle are addressed to us and if we didn't use an oracle a very pushy mailperson will deliver them instead. Like the time I really needed to not be professionally involved with a colleague who simply had different values to me, but I couldn't see any rational reason to step away so I continued to work with them and then one day I wrote a text to my sister outlining all this person's professional inadequacies and addressed it to the colleague and not my sister. The experience revealed to me just how artful my back peddling can be, but I couldn't help but think if I had just stepped away when there was a good a mutually beneficial time to part (and there was) I probably wouldn't have found myself in a pickle. (I have more sever examples but if I told you I'd have no face left and then what would I talk out of ...)

I'd like to know how people go about fixing their omens, what do people do with their readings, are you all out there just sitting back passively or do you undertake a certain routine after a reading.

I tend to keep it in the fore of my mind, and sometimes literally go out and do what yi advised, but not always, and I've never really thought about developing a way to ensure the omen is carried out or fixed STS. I ask questions purposefully but I cant confidentially say I give the same purposefulness with 'doing my part'.
 

tobiasosir

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The only thing the oracle can not do is to be told what it can not do.
It can tell the future, sometimes conditionally...
Hmm...yes, I would agree with this. The point I was trying to make it that an oracle won't "tell you the future," because as soon as you ask that question, you've set in sequence a chain of events that would change the answer. I don't believe the future is set, and thus don't believe that it can be known. But that's just me. :)
But, what you're saying makes perfect sense. The I Ching does tell the future insomuch as it tell you the state of things as they are now, and by extrapolating that, we can infer what will happen. Add a dose of acceptance of your role in things (consequences to actions/inaction etc.) and you get prophecy.

don't know how we "define" future, prediction and advise here. You project fact to the future to give an advise , isn't it ?
I would define these, respectively, as: what lies ahead, guessing what lies ahead, and how one may deal with what lies ahead. So to clarify my statement, I believe an oracle is less about giving you details about an absolute future than it is about telling you how you might deal with whatever comes--even if that advice comes with the caveat that "X will beget Y" as described above. The I Ching--and tarot--can be eerily specific when it comes to predicting the future, but I've always felt that even if the oracle tells you such and such will happen, you as an individual have the ability to alter that future. And if that's the case, it's better to treat the oracle as "advice on how to deal with the future", than "this is definitively what the future holds."

ChingChing: I think you highlight the discrepancy here. I think a lot of people come to oracles like this, or people who will read for them, looking for an "answer." What they expect is for the oracle to "tell them what to do," or provide a sure-fire future. Less often do they want to have a part in creating that future, or that answer. And that's the trick; because if you don't have a hand in your own future, it will move along according to the status quo. There's that idea again: "If you don't change direction, you may end up where you're going."
 
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sooo

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The point I was trying to make it that an oracle won't "tell you the future," because as soon as you ask that question, you've set in sequence a chain of events that would change the answer. I don't believe the future is set, and thus don't believe that it can be known. But that's just me. :)
There's that won't word again, chuckle. I hear what you're saying, and theoretically, I can agree. But in real life, the oracle has indeed predicted things so precisely at times, things I could have had no way of consciously (active word here) knowing, I won't say it won't ever tell me the future. I maintain a respectful Meng-mind about the oracle's capabilities.
 

chingching

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I think also it has to be done with discernment. It just the thing critics like is someone who blindly follows what they think an oracle (a pyschic etc.) has told them and it ends up damaging them. A past friend of mine was vocally against divination because his sister had been to a psychic and told her that the man she was with was her soulmate, so the sister stayed with this man who was physically abusive to her. My friend blamed the psychic for ruining his sister's life, but...as I discussed with him, the psychic did not tell her to stay with this man and the sister had a freewill of her own to choose to stay with him or end the relationship. (and soulmate doesn't mean a fairytale happily ever after or even that they will be the only soulmate etc.)

The other day I found a list I made four years ago of the areas and particular situations I was having a lot of difficulties with and it was funny to read because they are all things I have been able to move on from, but hadn't really realised the transition because it had happened over time, but the act of consciously drawing my attention and focus, just as one does with a yi reading, set me on a different path, or maybe its always been the same one but I just have better shoes now.
 

anemos

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I would define these, respectively, as: what lies ahead, guessing what lies ahead, and how one may deal with what lies ahead. So to clarify my statement, I believe an oracle is less about giving you details about an absolute future than it is about telling you how you might deal with whatever comes--even if that advice comes with the caveat that "X will beget Y" as described above. The I Ching--and tarot--can be eerily specific when it comes to predicting the future, but I've always felt that even if the oracle tells you such and such will happen, you as an individual have the ability to alter that future. And if that's the case, it's better to treat the oracle as "advice on how to deal with the future", than "this is definitively what the future holds."

"
I agree that yes I Ching can be eerily specific , i had my :eek: moments , lol
nevertheless, I see what IC can do and how we people use it as two separate things.

About the future, given the fact that the way you use it here is not yet clear to me, sometimes we can change it and sometimes no. And I thing that "going with the flow" embrace both situations. There are some lines in the Yi that more or less say to us. 'this is how things are. Just accept them"

I have my own theory about Yi , and in many points are in opposition with the rules I have read here many times. "Do that", "don't do that", "Yi does answer Only those questions" etc, etc.

Call me stubborn, call me hardheaded,:rolleyes: but when I have been given responds to what Yi supposed NOT to talk about, dunno, just don't believe to those rules. ;)
 
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sooo

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I think also it has to be done with discernment.
One of my favorite words, when it comes to interpreting readings: discernment.

anemos said:
I see what IC can do and how we people use it as two separate things.
Great point, thank you. It's to the effect of what I was ready to post here. Just because the oracle has the ability to predict a future event doesn't mean we should be quick to interpret it in such a way. But if we keep our awareness sharp, we can catch this happening as it's happening, re-cognition of the prediction.

Science says that we can not change the present by altering the past. If I go back in time, and persuade my grandfather not to go meet my grandmother, that will not prevent me from being born from them. Even if that were possible to do, they would inevitably meet in another way, and give birth to one of my parents. Likewise, my parents could not be prevented from giving birth to me, because I am already here. This means that the future events which lead to the development of my ancestry could not have been prevented. To use Wilhelm's words, "fate can not be duped" - 3.3.

Does this mean we have no control of our destiny? I don't interpret it that way, but every choice I make becomes the future, including my poor or stubbornly foolish choices.

Whoever hunts deer without the forester
Only loses his way in the forest.
The superior man understands the signs of the time
And prefers to desist.
To go on brings humiliation.
h3.3

"Thus the superior man consolidates his fate
By making his position correct.

It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that
lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life
and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm
footing." - h50 Wilhelm
I recall the first time I became aware of this future prediction phenomenon of the IC, back around 1965. A few friends and I were heading to NYC, Soho, to our rehearsal studio. Before leaving, I asked the Yi, what should we anticipate for tonight, and received 51 unchanging. My IC friend and I looked at each other, and I said, that's strange; everything is going so smoothly, I don't understand why we should anticipate any sort of shock, to which my friend just nodded in agreement. As I drove my VW bus up the on ramp to hwy 46, the car in front had stopped in the center of the road. It was snowing pretty hard, and my vehicle skidded until it slid into the back of the stopped vehicle. Everyone was silent, until my IC friend softly and simply said, "There it is." Thankfully, no one was hurt, but we were all shocked. The rest of the evening went as planned without further unexpected disruptions.
 
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tobiasosir

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There's that won't word again, chuckle. I hear what you're saying, and theoretically, I can agree. But in real life, the oracle has indeed predicted things so precisely at times, things I could have had no way of consciously (active word here) knowing, I won't say it won't ever tell me the future. I maintain a respectful Meng-mind about the oracle's capabilities.
Perhaps it's that I don't have enough experience with the I Ching yet to see how powerfully it can predict the future. To be perfectly honest, I've only made a dozen or so readings, and I've always phrased my questions in an open ended..."advisory," for lack of a better term...way. For example: "what should I do about my current job" as opposed to "will I get a new job?"

I have much more experience with the tarot, and so naturally my approach to this oracle is coloured by that. I've never asked about the future when reading tarot cards, because I learned to read differently; but then, that doesn't mean that tarot can't predict the future, does it? I'm simply asking different questions.

So maybe it's time I experiment with a different approach.
 
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sooo

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Perhaps it's that I don't have enough experience with the I Ching yet to see how powerfully it can predict the future. To be perfectly honest, I've only made a dozen or so readings, and I've always phrased my questions in an open ended..."advisory," for lack of a better term...way. For example: "what should I do about my current job" as opposed to "will I get a new job?"

I have much more experience with the tarot, and so naturally my approach to this oracle is coloured by that. I've never asked about the future when reading tarot cards, because I learned to read differently; but then, that doesn't mean that tarot can't predict the future, does it? I'm simply asking different questions.

So maybe it's time I experiment with a different approach.
I generally use the same approach as you do. I can't recall the last time I asked for a future prediction. But that doesn't mean it never predicts. :bows:
 

anemos

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But if we keep our awareness sharp, we can catch this happening as it's happening, re-cognition of the prediction.
Exactly !!! this is why I kind of being skeptic about all those "rules". They affect my sharpness, make me less open, block out the unexpected.

Does this mean we have no control of our destiny? I don't interpret it that way, but every choice I make becomes the future, including my poor or stubbornly foolish choices.
Every moment before a fork-road that asks a yes or a no.

Those yes or no are our part in this co-creation of the future.
 

anemos

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I'd like to know how people go about fixing their omens, what do people do with their readings, are you all out there just sitting back passively or do you undertake a certain routine after a reading.

I tend to keep it in the fore of my mind, and sometimes literally go out and do what yi advised, but not always, and I've never really thought about developing a way to ensure the omen is carried out or fixed STS. I ask questions purposefully but I cant confidentially say I give the same purposefulness with 'doing my part'.
My first reply would be "don't know" so i decided to come and post something better.

After pondering on it , my respond is... "i don't know" :)

It depends on the reading, mostly. sometimes I just have it in my mind, sometimes I refuse to follow the advice :rolleyes:, sometimes I act and ask again act and ask again.

One time I asked about some papers I had send. Everything should be fine but for some reason I felt i should ask. I got some reading that get me worried and after some phone calls I realized that I would be facing an unpleasant surprise in the near future, so I started to take actions that would secure myself. The weird thing was that although I took some actions, I kept receiving not that nice readings. So I change my course, make some contacts and send again those papers with a faster way, ensuring a written extension of a deadline, just in case... After the courier picked up the new set of papers, I asked again. "what now ?" . Don't remember the actual line, but It was clear there will be no problem. Everything worked just fine.
 
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riurik

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I have my own theory about Yi , and in many points are in opposition with the rules I have read here many times. "Do that", "don't do that", "Yi does answer Only those questions" etc, etc.

Call me stubborn, call me hardheaded,:rolleyes: but when I have been given responds to what Yi supposed NOT to talk about, dunno, just don't believe to those rules. ;)
:bows:
 

tobiasosir

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I generally use the same approach as you do. I can't recall the last time I asked for a future prediction. But that doesn't mean it never predicts. :bows:
When I have the time to sit down and do a traditional yarrow stalk reading, I'm going to experiment by asking about something in the future. I think the next time I do a tarot reading for someone, I'll try to consider the future as well. It will be interesting to see what comes up!
 
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sooo

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When I have the time to sit down and do a traditional yarrow stalk reading, I'm going to experiment by asking about something in the future. I think the next time I do a tarot reading for someone, I'll try to consider the future as well. It will be interesting to see what comes up!
If I may offer a suggestion, to ask about the immediate future. I'd occasionally ask about rehearsals or gigs, and it would usually prepare me for what to expect, and give me a chance to adjust to the conditions I'd be dealing with. But it's tricky, because if my own head wasn't well balanced, the answer could always wind up being about me rather than what I'd be faced with. That's why attaining a heightened awareness is the essential element in any case. And, sometimes a heightened awareness isn't comfortable. Sometimes not knowing is not only easier but more natural, as well. There's something to be said about trusting; trusting yourself, trusting God or fate or the Dao or whatever. I've found that if I don't trust enough, if I become needy and too dependent and insecure, the Yi has a way of knocking me over the head with the Book. No fun.
 
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riurik

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Sometimes not knowing is not only easier but more natural, as well.
:bows:

Wise words. You don't find this advise in most of the Yi Jing books nowadays. Too bad.

There should be a warning message "Divining too often can produce anxiety, addiction and other adverse metal health consequences" :rofl::rofl::rofl:
 

tobiasosir

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If I may offer a suggestion, to ask about the immediate future. I'd occasionally ask about rehearsals or gigs, and it would usually prepare me for what to expect, and give me a chance to adjust to the conditions I'd be dealing with. But it's tricky, because if my own head wasn't well balanced, the answer could always wind up being about me rather than what I'd be faced with. That's why attaining a heightened awareness is the essential element in any case. And, sometimes a heightened awareness isn't comfortable. Sometimes not knowing is not only easier but more natural, as well. There's something to be said about trusting; trusting yourself, trusting God or fate or the Dao or whatever. I've found that if I don't trust enough, if I become needy and too dependent and insecure, the Yi has a way of knocking me over the head with the Book. No fun.
Asking about the immediate future would be best, I agree; not only it is more "present" so to speak, I won't be worrying myself for days about watching to see if the prediction comes true. I can tend to overthink things, it's been a challenge for me for quite some time.

Which brings me to your other comment. That is indeed good advice, and I'll try to "be present" and let it be as it is. That's part of why I like the yarrow stalks as opposed to the coins; the repetitive nature of it is relaxing, and meditative.
 

hilary

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The only thing the oracle can not do is to be told what it can not do.
Absolutely!

Can Yi tell the future? Yes.
Can I make Yi tell me the future? No.

Or that's my experience, at least. I will tend to ask about 'now' - 'What do I need to know now?' or 'How am I doing?' or 'What if I did this?' or occasionally 'What would be the next step towards x?'

is there such a things as "now" or is just a construction, a borderline between past and future ? How much it lasts, how can we measure it ?
:eek:
I used to ask " what do i need to know Now" but it doesn't makes any sense to me lately, so I omit that word. It makes me feel still, disconnected from the process, the flow. Absent. Now is not about present time, its being present.

have been trying to see "now". I brought a river in my mind, the time it is created. The water comes out of the spring and fills the empty space, creates a path to reach the sea. I tried to see it in a slow motion to mark "now". I couldn't. I could see river's past, the water that had already cover the empty space(63). I could see the river's future... the infinite potential futures(64) but I had to stop the flow to see "now".

Which hex is "now" was what I asked then. H5 was the first thing I thought. being present. eating and drinking

Now could be 11 also. disconnected ? 12 ?

:eek: i lost "now" ;)
I think Yi is likely to tell you about the patterns of flow in the whole river. (The hexagrams themselves look a bit like that.) Maybe asking for 'now' as opposed to any other time would be a bit like asking for a nice, solid slice of river on a plate ;) .

I believe the messages we get through use of an oracle are addressed to us and if we didn't use an oracle a very pushy mailperson will deliver them instead. Like the time I really needed to not be professionally involved with a colleague who simply had different values to me, but I couldn't see any rational reason to step away so I continued to work with them and then one day I wrote a text to my sister outlining all this person's professional inadequacies and addressed it to the colleague and not my sister. The experience revealed to me just how artful my back peddling can be, but I couldn't help but think if I had just stepped away when there was a good a mutually beneficial time to part (and there was) I probably wouldn't have found myself in a pickle. (I have more sever examples but if I told you I'd have no face left and then what would I talk out of ...)
Oh, we have a :bag: here provided specially for just such occasions. I have also met the mailperson you mention. It makes me smile a bit when people worry if they can 'break' the oracle somehow, asking or casting the wrong way. Doesn't really matter if I draw the curtains and tie them back neatly, put my foot in the wastepaper basket, grab the curtains and accidentally rip them down as I fall on my backside, get a dog that demolishes curtains, set fire to them or let them be eaten by moths: I will still not have broken the light that eventually illuminates the room.
I'd like to know how people go about fixing their omens, what do people do with their readings, are you all out there just sitting back passively or do you undertake a certain routine after a reading.

I tend to keep it in the fore of my mind, and sometimes literally go out and do what yi advised, but not always, and I've never really thought about developing a way to ensure the omen is carried out or fixed STS. I ask questions purposefully but I cant confidentially say I give the same purposefulness with 'doing my part'.
I'm very, very interested in this, too. I have had the experience too many times of looking at a three year old journal entry and reflecting on how different things might have been if I'd managed to hang onto that 'aha!'. A bit like finally getting the curtains open and then absent-mindedly putting a bag on my head and forgetting it's there for a few years.

These days I have a routine around my weekly reading: time set aside on Sundays to review the past week in the light of its reading, cast the new week's reading in the light of what that reminds me of, and spend some time thinking about that. This seems to keep me a bit more awake. But I want to get much, much better at the 'integrating' part.

I maintain a respectful Meng-mind about the oracle's capabilities.
:)
 
S

sooo

Guest
Oh, we have a :bag: here provided specially for just such occasions. I have also met the mailperson you mention. It makes me smile a bit when people worry if they can 'break' the oracle somehow, asking or casting the wrong way. Doesn't really matter if I draw the curtains and tie them back neatly, put my foot in the wastepaper basket, grab the curtains and accidentally rip them down as I fall on my backside, get a dog that demolishes curtains, set fire to them or let them be eaten by moths: I will still not have broken the light that eventually illuminates the room.
:rofl:

That's the most unusual oracle ritual I've ever heard of or read!
 
S

sooo

Guest
have been trying to see "now". I brought a river in my mind, the time it is created. The water comes out of the spring and fills the empty space, creates a path to reach the sea. I tried to see it in a slow motion to mark "now". I couldn't. I could see river's past, the water that had already cover the empty space(63). I could see the river's future... the infinite potential futures(64) but I had to stop the flow to see "now".

Which hex is "now" was what I asked then. H5 was the first thing I thought. being present. eating and drinking

Now could be 11 also. disconnected ? 12 ?

:eek: i lost "now" ;)
Oh come on. Now is now. Woops, wait... now. Wooops, wait..... NOW! Wooops, wait... *sneaking up on it*..... NOW! Wooops, wait....
 

anemos

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Quote:
Originally Posted by anemos
is there such a things as "now" or is just a construction, a borderline between past and future ? How much it lasts, how can we measure it ?


:eek:
what ? ? :p
 

chingching

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Doesn't really matter if I draw the curtains and tie them back neatly, put my foot in the wastepaper basket, grab the curtains and accidentally rip them down as I fall on my backside, get a dog that demolishes curtains, set fire to them or let them be eaten by moths: I will still not have broken the light that eventually illuminates the room.
:rofl:

brilliant! its feels more level to just draw back the curtains but setting them on fire makes a better story.
 

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