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These confounded IC forumlas

pagan

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Hi Yly2pg1,
I am not sure I will ever develop the analytical kind of mind that feeds off of these kinds of formulas. But looking at the one below, which you posted, I can't help but sit in awe of the relationships it makes. The same is true when I tread Chris's work, I don't get how it makes sense why you come up with the patterns but I look at the end result and they become very meaningful to me, just it terms of how I view the hexagrams.

Regarding this pattern: (from the discussion thread of hex 38/40)

101000 + 000000(H2)-> 101000 (no changing line)
101000 - 100000(H24)-> 001000 (1st c.l.)
101000 + 010000(H7) -> 111000 (2nd c.l.)
101000 - 001000(H15)-> 100000 (3rd c.l.)
101000 + 000100(H16)-> 101100 (4th c.l.)
101000 + 000010(H8)-> 101010 (5th c.l.)
101000 + 000001(H23)-> 101001 (6th c.l.)

So I see this as 36 combined with 2 just feeds the negative nature of 36. (no change)

36 combined with 24 (darkness with a new beginning) seems to warn about caution and sticking to a moderate middle path (15).

36 combined with 7 is really fascinating to me. Darkness-36 and rousing up support, raising an army-7, leads to peace on earth-11 ???? This is sort of saying that 36 is really a stagnating place, and if you can get supported-7, you will dispel the darkness and bring on a very positive situation-11. This is almost saying that you must generate the support of others-7 against a tyrant-36.

36 plus 15 leads to 24. Darkness-36, dealt with by a moderate approach to other's transgressions and holding anger and other negative emotions in balance-15, like the temperance card in tarot, leads to the opportunity to begining a new path/returning from the wrong diversion-24.

36 combined with 16 (darkness-36 combined with enthusiasm or harmonizing with the environment-16) leads to 55. 55 is not just abundance and recognition, but it is also bringing justice to a situation (again 36 implies a tyrant in the picture). 36 here seems like a dark, energy sucking night club, and 16 is like playing in a really good band and thereby lifting the energy of the whole place by your shining light (55).

36 plus 8 is 48? Union with someone who is capable of leading-8 in the darkness-36 leads to new potential for nourishment. Or is 8 union with the tyrant in 36 which leads to a new potential-48? This one is really hard to get a handle on for me.

And finally 36 plus 23 leads to 22. Splitting off-23 from the the tyrant-36 leads to peace and grace-22. This makes perfect sense to me.

How do you use these formulas? Am I looking at this formula correctly?
 

pagan

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Hi Chris,
02 23 08 20 16 35 45 12 (earth base trigram)
15 52 39 53 62 56 31 33 (mountain base)
07 04 29 59 40 64 47 06 (water base)
46 18 48 57 32 50 28 44 (wind base)
24 27 03 42 51 21 17 25 (thunder base)
36 22 63 37 55 30 49 13 (fire base)
19 44 60 61 54 38 58 10 (lake base)
11 26 05 09 34 14 43 01 (heaven base)

Regarding this chart.
The 'highest expression of 2 is 12? That is brilliant. If you don't put negative connotations on it, 2 is inertia and that is ultimately expressed as 12 in the real world.

The highest expression of 15 is 33. Again that is brilliant, even in the midst of action, one must know how to retreat in order to maintain the middle path and remain moderate in thought word and deed.

The highest expression of 7 is 6? The purpose of war-7 is to handle conflict-6. Again its brilliant.

The highest expression of 46 is 44????? I don't get this one.

The highest expression of 24 is 25. This makes good sense to me. Remaining innocent and open-25 is the way to return to the right path-24.

The highest expression of 36 is 13? I guess misery-36 loves company-13???

The highest expression of 19 to 10. Careful conduct-10 is surely the way to take best advantage of a good situation-19 for all concerned. Also, when good approaches-19 it is time to take the risk/leap-10. And conduct-10 will preserve you in the 8th month of misfortune-19.

The highest expression of 11 is 1. This is also brilliant. When conditions on earth are perfect-11, it is the ideal time to start something new-1. The IC seems to think that with success, everything rests on a good start.

This may not be the way you use these formulas, but even if someone doesn't 'get it' they are still great for sharpening the mind on the way that hexagrams relate to one another.
P.
 

yly2pg1

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Abstracts from the thread 'Line position archetypes':

(A) Derivation method reflects Right brain/Left brain interaction (which follows binary order):
http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/btree.gif

(B) The 'journey' from the general to the particular is a journey along the binary sequence,
from hex 02 to hex 01 (or from -A-A-A-A-A-A to AAAAAA).

(C) BUT we also have a journey for each hexagram (e.g. A -A A -A -A -A) perpendicular that sequence
(imagine 64 concepts all trying to express themselves at the same time and so in parallel
- gets into the stratification model mentioned in the above file)

(D) The logic in all of this follows where, given a realm of POTENTIALS, as symbolised by hexagram 02 - 000000
(-A -A -A -A -A -A)- so to bring out an ACTUAL we have to use energy.
This energy is expressed in the form of YANG.
Thus, to bring out the qualities of 27 we have to pour yang into lines 1 and 6 of 000000 to give 100001- hex 27.
This rule applies across the board such that in the realm of the ACTUALS the same patterns apply.


In the case 101000-hex36, the formula in binary code is a reflection of (A),(B),(C) and (D) etc.

e.g.1 101000 + 010000(H7) -> 111000 (2nd c.l.)

We have invirogating strength open the way in line-2 by pouring yang energy at this line (010000).
An expression of dispelling darkness for peace and harmony (111000).

IOW:
At this time of darkness (UNIVERSAL CONTEXT 101000),
man resorts to rally for support and rise up (LOCAL CONTEXT 010000)
to dispel darkness for peace and harmony. (EXPRESSION 111000)


e.g.2 101000 - 100000(H24)-> 001000 (1st c.l.)

To hide brightness by taking flight (100000-start a journey?).
Could also imply avoiding injury by escaping a situation (probably due to negative potential)(-100000)
An expression of yielding (001000).

IOW:
At this time of darkness (UNIVERSAL CONTEXT 101000),
man resorts to escape or take flight,(LOCAL CONTEXT -100000)
and yields to the situation. (EXPRESSION 001000)


This is only my uderstanding of what i have read thru so far.
Feel free for comments and corrections.
 

lightofdarkness

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Pagan,

46 - 44 a touch of 'getting entangled' is extrematised in becoming forcefully persuasive/seductive - the reactive gives way to the proactive.

36 - 13 the focus in 36 is of there being no 'like minded' about so hide the light - but the POTENTIAL for getting involved with the likeminded is still there, actualised in 13.

We can read 36 as "with guidance comes trust in others" - a direction, an ideology, a faith is 'covered' but 'kept warm' anticipating that there are others of likemind.

The need for covering is due to the fact that no matter how brilliant one is, it is not one's time and one is rejected, hunted-down etc. Seen from the other side, the light is threatening and needs to be extinguished.

The context of fire, when seen in emotional form, is a context covering issues of acceptance. Earth has its roots in fear where fear can be turned around to a need to integrate with the context, to disappear into it - and so comes the notion of devotion to another/others.


As you can see, using the binary sequence is 'useful' in analysis of the IC! ;-)

Chris.
 

lightofdarkness

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Yly2pg1 -

cool. great example of applying the general formula locally - I have not focused on this sort of piecemeal development as yet - looks very promising.
(but then I think it should!)

Chris.
 

lightofdarkness

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Yly2pg1 -

An interesting observation here is that the XOR nature reflects issues of structure and is 'left-brained' - single context, static. On the other hand, when analysing the brain material, TIME is an integrator and is more repesentive of the AND side of things (right brained). The sequence we see in the left is more so of integration WITHIN something, as in position in a hierarchy, 'correctness' and so syntax rules. The TIME element in the 'right' reflects linking things together in general.

You may want to focus on this as you have started to above where the AND function maps out TIME steps as the XOR function maps out spacial forms.

Lets see how you go... ;-)

Chris.
 

lightofdarkness

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Yly2pg1,

Some general, meandering, notes reflecting on XOR-AND processing in general and the application to I Ching formulas etc:

Given the brain dynamics of XOR-AND, so we find that the XOR nature is precise, parts oriented, and as such focused on PROPERTIES of things ? this reflects a SPACIAL perspective, discreteness, differentiating; with the ultimate focus on the point, the dot.

This contrasts to the AND nature that is a touch more vague, wholes oriented, and as such focused on METHODS of things ? this reflects a TEMPORAL perspective, continuous, integrating.

As such, TIME is interpretable as being not reducible as a WHOLE, but SPACE is. In other words we can zoom-in on time, make the ?steps? more discrete, but not convert time into small scales; we can miniaturise things, toy cars etc, but not miniaturise TIME, only make the distinctions of time steps ?finer?. What DOES change time perspectives in the utilisation of energy but that means our experiences are distortions of a constant.

It is this reducibility of spacial concepts that allow us to experience paradox, where a ?complex line drawing? in the realm of AND becomes a paradox of two cubes sharing the same space in the realm of XOR. This is demonstrated in the analysis of paradox processing ? http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/paradox.html

The time method then steps in to OSCILLATE the images as we try to resolve the ?paradox? ? this oscillation is not ?miniaturised?, it is the same timeframe for the complex line drawing as it is for the two cubes, BUT the focusing of attention on the spacial will ?distort? subjective time experience, appear to slow it down or even ?stop? ? and that distortion can then be inserted to our models of reality as a sense of the ?eternal? etc. (and so ?spacetime? continuum concepts in an energy-ladened universe)

The suggestion here, in the context of the I Ching, is that the Line Position material presented recently, where we XOR hexagrams with a particular hexagram, covers properties of what is WITHIN, e.g.:

A XOR B = C, is where C is the expression of the A-ness of B ? reflecting a genetics perspective and so C describes A as the expression of A as a PROPERTY of B.

The other analogy used was to music where B is the KEY and A a note/chord played in that key and so ?distorted? by that key operating as a filter to give us an expression C.

On the other hand, if we use the formula A AND B = C, we move from the PROPERTIES, differentiating, perspective to the METHODS , integrating, perspective; and so a focus more on what is BETWEEN.

Thus here, C, is interpreted as a method, and it describes the method to satisfy the needs of A given its operation in a context of B; A is not ?inside? B itself, it is in a relationship with B, both are ?separate? but one is serving as context.

Thus with:

27 XOR 51 = 35, we are dealing with the properties of 35 describing the 27-ness of 51. IOW, the basic structure, the skeletal form of 51, is described by 35.

27 AND 51 = 05 is where we are dealing with the methods of 05 to satisfy the needs of 27 IN the context of 51. IOW the ?need? of 27 is to be filled and in a context of 51 this need is satisfied through the methods of 05, as in networking whilst waiting for one?s opportunity to come around.

Thus in the 27 ? 51 dynamic, the XOR state focuses on aspects of 51, the AND state focuses on the method to satisfy the needs of 27.

To use another mapping:

22 XOR 52 = 24, the appearance of 52 is as if a focus on returning to the ?true? faith.

whereas

22 AND 52 = 44, the satisfaction of 22, attractiveness, in a context of 52, is through the method of persuasion/seduction.

The I Ching can be called the ?Book of Gerunds? in that dual interpretations are encoded into each hexagram, IOW a hexagram describes properties as it also describes methods. The XOR/AND dynamic operates as keys to give access to each ?part? of the gerund, the spatial or the temporal.

Since the XOR/AND dynamic operates like a fractal, so zooming-in and using the same method should give patterns in finer details, thus the passage from, say 27 to 05 due to the context of 51 can be ?sliced? into steps.

Going back to the music associations of XOR-ing giving us keys and the expression of notes in that key, so the AND perspective touches on rhythms, on metre etc. (?) that integrates all into one and so ?satisfies? ? focus on beginning-ending and so the temporal but as semantics, not syntax; move in for finer details of the structure of the path and we move in to XOR focus WITHIN the path.

Chris.
 

pagan

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If I were to try to explain Chris's ideas to a young teenager, I would start by saying that you have one whole that contains everything. Then you begin by dividing that whole into two parts that conform to yin and yang. Both of these can be further divided into yin and yang.

Chris, correct me if I am wrong, but the basic underlying notion in your work is that IC relationships all conform to simple recursion, +/-, so making these relationships are 'legitimate' because they obey an underlying pattern of logic based on what seems to be the most basic truth about life; its all about the divisions of yin and yang and the diversity and complexification that comes from these divisions.

For example, every hexagram is nothing more that the complexification of yin and yang: broken and solid lines, and the interactions/inter-relationships between these broken or solid lines. So you can look at the 27ness of 51, for example, because these parts are only complicated interactions of yin and yang, and so long as you follow the logical pattern, you will achieve a logical outcome.

Analyzing this stuff is like watching the vast diversity of nature explode out of the tiniest seed of reality. And it is amazingly how quickly it becomes unweildy in its complexity, but still you can always trace it back to the ultra-simple rule of its binary on/off basis.
p.
 

kevin

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That's all very neat... and it is comfortable for our minds...

I would suggest that paradox is central to the Yi and that this approach fails to accommodate that...

Indeed the Yi seems to work best when it shunts us away from logic and stimulates our imagination?

We then become creative (not subject to a system) and thus determine our selves?

--Kevin
 

lightofdarkness

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Hi Pagan,

The focus of IDM is on how we can generate meaning from neurological processes. THAT work shows our brains using recursion of WHAT/WHERE (aka differentiating/integrating) to derive basic qualities we can use as a species to categorise - from there all else follows.

Our consciousness appears to have developed from complex neurological development, and in that development can take the set of universal categories derived in our species-nature and apply them to any particular context - it then labels these relationships and so elicits 'difference'. This means we create specialisations, be the our own thinking, or the concepts, symbols, metaphors of a collective etc. The IC is one of these specialisations and that is why it elicits meaning - it reflects 'us' ;-) The advantage is in the representation of yin/yang all the way 'down' - if we used colours etc we would miss a lot details due to hues being less precise that what are akin to music chords where we can pick out each note in the chord - not immediately possible in the colours.

Complexity is reflected in the fact that recursion will encode the whole into all parts - we are seeing in the IC the same patterns we see in the generic code where each cell contains the full code. The XOR/AND stuff re line positions is revealing that code in hexagrams - but that method is applicable in any recursively-derived system of categorisation.

The available texts on IC and DNA sequencing (me included - http://www.ozemail.com.au/~ddiamond/dna.html) touch on the tip of the iceberg in that they identify the similarities in construction of the representations (e.g. ACC in DNA is representable as three digrams put together to give a hexagram). What we find with this XOR/AND dynamic takes things a lot further in that we focus on the METHOD for BOTH systems for that is the only 'common' ground.


>So you can look at the 27ness of 51,
> for example, because these parts are only complicated
> interactions of yin and yang, and so long as you follow the
> logical pattern, you will achieve a logical outcome.
>

The 27ness of 51 reflects parts within a whole - the genetic code is in all cells with context determining expression. If each hexagram is a context (which can also mean a cell) then the expression of the other genes will usually be 'distorted' by that context. The XOR process allows us to see all aspects of the whole expressed thorough a particular context where that context is representable by an aspect itself.

Also recognise that 'traditional' logic is limited to XOR-type representations, excludes time, and so is analytical, focused on structure, thing-ness. You have to include the dialectical elements, with time in its thermodynamic, cause-effect, role, to get the 'full picture'.

In traditional logic you have A -> B which means "if A then B" but the "then" is not time related, B does not literally 'follow' from B, A and B exist in the same moment. If we introduce a representation for full logic then we can have:

A ; B = "IF A [then] so [exists] B" which reflects the coexistence element and then we can have
A -> B = "if A then B will follow on" - IOW this representation introduces time as an element. Thus BOTH are saying 'IF A THEN B' but one is spacial, one is temporal.

(and so the implication of the AND focus bringing out temporal patterns of hexagrams where a hexagram traversing a particular context will lead to a particular outcome/ending. SO we have:

A AND B = C where C is the EFFECT of the A traversing a context of B, and so the CAUSE. If A is held constant, but B changes, so does the ending, C. It is THIS perspective that comes from the realm of the dialectical and so rooted in traditional IC thinking - but here we have derived it all from line position work alone, no focus on changing lines etc BUT you could have A and C and work backwards from the changed lines to derive B)

This dynamic will function, in principle, at ALL levels of recursion and so at all levels of the application of recursion - IOW in personal, cultural, species histories. The sense of the INEVITABLE given A to C is a universal, LOCAL conditions can slow down or speed up that process (see my page on history - http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/history.html - where work on "Small World Network" concepts are bringing this out)

All of this gets us into the issues of COEXISTENCE logic vs REPLACEMENT logic where their unification gives us 'full spectrum' logic.

Our brains focus on recursion of XOR/AND (or to be more precise, IMP/AND where IMP means IMPLIED and reflects the asymmetric nature of our brains and our use of probabilities in 'precise' predictions of events etc) and so the REPLACEMENT vs COEXISTENCE dynamic - XOR is replacement oriented in its DEMAND for A XOR B, one or the other, never both. AND is coexistence oriented (includes IOR, one or the other, or both) but also has a time element of linking each moment, but the EXPERIENCE of that moment is XOR, each moment replaces the previous.

> Analyzing this stuff is like watching the vast diversity of
> nature explode out of the tiniest seed of reality. And it is
> amazingly how quickly it becomes unweildy in its complexity,
> but still you can always trace it back to the ultra-simple
> rule of its binary on/off basis.

Sure - the recursion is more so getting finer details on the whole, increase energy and things 'heat up' and so differentiate more. Cool it all down and, in particle physics it all disappears into a Bose-Einstein Condensate - a 'blob' of light etc. Increase the heat and fermion PAIRS start to come out of the 'blob' - this dynamic reflects properties of recursion of an ASYMMETRY. Stay in the realm of particle physics and our universe can ONLY have occured with an asymmtry - represented in the concept of the Baryon octet.

The fermion PAIR, upon coming into existence will show themselves to be OPPOSITES in charge and will zoom apart, if they meet they 'destroy' each other by becoming 'bosons' again. Here we have the electron/positron pair and the true reflection of OPPOSITES as compared to COMPLEMENTS (and so the notion of 'objects' where each differentiates, pushes the other 'away' as opposite magnetic poles do)

Our brains reflect the development of this basic dynamic all the way 'up' - or more so our brains relfect adaptation to that dynamic. (see http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/symmetry.html for more)

Chris.
 

lightofdarkness

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Hi Kevin,

>
> That's all very neat... and it is comfortable for our
> minds...
>
> I would suggest that paradox is central to the Yi and that
> this approach fails to accommodate that...
>

Paradox is central to, derived from, our differentiating processes. Those processes are also the realm of 'high intensity' consciousness, the XOR state of our being. What is a product of our consciousness is our imagination - its 'purpose' being in the pre-empting of particular contexts to which we have to adapt - we can imagine the contexts, derive possible toolsets to deal with the contexts such that when actually placed IN the context 'for real' we adapt VERY quickly since we have, in our imagination, 'been there, done that' ;-)

The IC in fact lets us do this in that each hexagram covers unique contexts such that analysis of the GENERIC properties and methods can 'fit' an experienced context, or one to be experienced.

COMPLEX contexts can be 'pardoxical' in that they need more than one hexagram to cover the 'whole' story - and so XOR could elicit a state of 'oscillation' across two hexagrams of opposite forms! - This will mean we have not gone 'deep' enough in our categorisations - so we move to dodecagrams (represented in moving line hexagrams etc)

The dynamics of sensory paradox processing, where we take a pattern from the AND and instinctively XOR it to reveal something our XOR-nature does not deal with, reflects that paradox is a product of XOR and so of consciousness. In sensory paradox our species-brain sees a 'complex line drawing' and so there is no 'paradox' there, it is our consciousnes that elicits the paradox with its process of 'details'. We will then switch from 'immediate' gratification to delayed - we move from maximusing bandwidth to understand 'X' to recuiting time - experienced as an oscillation across the different images/sounds experienced in the paradox - as in the Necker cube visual paradox - first we see one cube, and then 'suddenly' the other etc etc.

For examples of all of this etc see http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/paradox.html

It appears that this process of dealing with sensory paradox aids in development of consciousness as an agent of mediation and filters up to our everyday activity in the form of our tendency to argue. At the level of consciousness the SAME dynamics we see at the sensory level are employed at the consciousness interactions level - where, if I say "A" and you say "NOT-A", our brains will instinctively move into 'paradox mode' in that A and NOT-A cannot exist in the same space-time - we argue to 'resolve' the issue! The refinement of consciousness, where we move into the realm of the DELAYED, the rational etc means that this resolution focus can be kept going for millenia! (and it also introduces us to the realm of superpositions, where many can be encoded into the one and CONTEXT will draw out what is 'required'. Thus we have two forms of argument - one based on universals, the other on locals where context-sensitivity will resolve the 'paradox'.

Chris.
 

pagan

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If we take the basic characteristics of yin and yang, then yin is a 'pregnant void' and yang is an animating power that gives life; like sperm in relationship to an egg. Imagine one unbroken line as a symbol of animating spirit, and one broken line as a symbol of the egg, waiting in potential to become fertilized.

But in a hexagram, there are already six positions, implying an extremely complex 'context' already.

Lets look at hexagram 1. This is a relationship between six unbroken lines. These six 'place holders' are meaningful and imply a very complex field, or context, in which these six yang lines interact.

The top and bottom lines of any hexagram are the least relevent to the issue at hand. They are the most 'dispensible' placeholders (the young and the weak). The first and last positions are the least neccessary in order to maintain 'status quo' in any context of reality. Perhaps we can see them as the under-mature and the over-mature.

So, if we remove the influence of lines one and six in hexagram 1, we get hexagram 28: too much of some thing. There is a critical need for something to be done.

Conversely, hex 27 is all yin--the egg needing to be fertilized. Lines one and six only serve as 'boundary lines' to the predominating energy of lines 2 through 5.

We can also apply the principle of ying and yang to the hexagram as a whole, and see the lower (closest to earth)trigram as yin place-holder, and the upper (closest to heaven) trigram as the yang place-holder. Then, the goal is seen in the upper trigram (sperm) and the context (egg) is seen in the lower trigram. The upper trigram of hex 1 has no egg to fertilize, because there are no yin lines below. Then, we look to hexagram 2, and the pairing continues. But in 28, the 1st is immature and the last is overmature, so you have too much yang. In hexagram 27, again line one is undermature and line six is overmature, so yin finds nothing to fertilize itself.

These are very simple yin/yang models.

We can keep going, and change all of the yang lines in a particular hexagram to yin, and the resulting hexagram will show us a hidden 'context' (yin-ness) to the overt 'principle' (yang-ness)of the hexagram as a whole.

Everytime we do this, we focus in on a part and so we exaggerate what we are seeing. This sacrifices the purity of context in favor of the goal because in doing so we lose wholistic meaning (integration) to get concentrated focus (power).

That does not imply any good/bad, it just needs to be factored in. And when you are analyzing hexagrams this way, you will ultimately gain a much richer viewpoint of context in the long run.

These formulas don't require that you sacrifice imagination. At any point when you want to remain utterly intuitive about a hexagram or line, the option remains. But if you do refine your comprehension of the component elements of the hexagram's construction, then you ultimately gain precision in your perception that is useful.

That said, I think the idea that Chris put forth is powerful:
"As such, TIME is interpretable as being not reducible as a WHOLE, but SPACE is. In other words we can zoom-in on time, make the ?steps? more discrete, but not convert time into small scales; we can miniaturise things, toy cars etc, but not miniaturise TIME, only make the distinctions of time steps ?finer?. What DOES change [is] time perspectives in the utilisation of energy but that means our experiences are distortions of a constant."
I think this is truly a brilliant application of this kind of analysis.

If we look at space as yin and time as yang, then their interaction creates consciousness. What is unique about every one of us is the time/space field that we occupy can never be usurped from us. It is what makes each and every one of us unique. In one respect, you might say it is what is truly 'sacred' about our existence. Our time/space coordinate is actually what is never shared by another, except in sex. Consciousness can almost be defined as the synthesis of time and space, this is the principle of astrology. It is this synthesis that makes each and every one of us conscious--it doesn't just give rise to it, it IS our ability to say "I think therefore I am".

And as far as paradox is concerned, it is the field of action that reconciles all paradox. When we sit perched on our intellectual stools, paradox can exist. But without the left brained ping pong game of concepts, all is reconciled in the natural process of birth, life and death; in reality AS IT IS.
p.
 

lightofdarkness

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HI Pagan,

good stuff! but a small point re immature/overmature and lines 1 and 6. In the line POSITIONS focus we are dealing with 64 not 6. In that focus line 6 maps to position 32, and so the peak of experience/expression, then follows 32 more 'steps' to reach the 'opposite' of the original hexagram and so reflects yin-into-yang, yang-into-yin. (and so we move into an increasing 'past best' focus)

That said, note that the 1-to-6(32) perspective is more PULSE oriented, the 1 to 64 perspective is more WAVE oriented such that both perspective can reflect 'value'.

As for "perched on our intellectual stools, paradox can exist" - yes, our intellectual stools reflect our mediating consciousness that can, does, over-mediate and so can elicit 'paradox', oscillations (ping pong game) demanding 'resolution' when either there is none (see the link above re paradox) or else we have to add more categories - or just shut up! ;-)

Chris.
 

lightofdarkness

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Pagan, BTW....

In the context of a full wave form reflecting 'steps', if you take the 'natural' binary sequence of the hexagrams you get the listing from 000000 to 111111 - BUT this covers STRUCTURE such that put energy into 000000 and out pops all of the structures, aka hexagrams from 000000 to 111111. This ordering is usable as a reflection of different energy levels and so a path of energy levels but as forms - we can then put the forms in different orders to reflect energy dynamics over time other than this 'perfect' form from all potentials to all actualised.

If you take this sequence of hexagrams and ROTATE it so you reflect a rotation from XOR to AND where AND is in the form of a SEQUENCE from 000000 to 111111 - this is in fact the 'changing line' sequence 'up' a hexagram, here being 01 or 02 (depending on which end you start).

This sequence, from 000000, goes 000000, 100000, 010000, 110000, 001000, ....to 111111, and as such reflects the movement of the yang step focus in general (the ordering is derived through binary number steps 0-1-2-3-4....63). Note that the middle position is 000001 (the one before it being 111110). The first position on the 'downleg' of this pattern, and so number 33 if 000001 is 32, is 100001.

If we juxtapose the two sides, the up and the down, then we have, outside of the realm of potentials (000000), the start of 100000 and then a 'start', or restart, of 100001. This can be interpreted as a beginning (100000) that, upon reaching a spiritual peak (000001), assertion of 'preferred' faith, forms into a structure in need of filling (100001) OR the qualitative interpretation of a 'complete' structure, nature, ready for 'more', nurture. The exposure to nurture then fills the inside with the OPPOSITE of the outside and in doing so COMPLEMENTS it to become a 'whole'.... or thats the sort of possible interpretation! ;-)

Note here that we are focusing on XOR/AND applied to the generation of *wholes* and a passage across wholes. if we then focus WITHIN, apply XOR/AND to each hexagram, so out pops more details, PARTS, about the expression of a hexagram as well as its unique associations with contexts; that should include temporal DISTORTIONS in the AND focus.

For more of these sets of sequences etc see the old page http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/icmatrix.html

Chris.
 

kevin

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Happily less comfortable in my mind now.

Thanks

--Kevin
 

pagan

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You are going to have to take me the long hand route to understand how the line positions 1-6 map to 1-32 and 1-64. I understand that when taking a whole and then splitting it into 64 potential 'contexts' you can equate this to taking a whole and splitting it into 6 potential contexts. I assume you are beginning with hex 2,000000, and ending up with 32, 011100?

I think 32 maps well to the 6 nature of the Sage in context of timeless values, the supremacy of patience over tribulation etc. But I don't see exactly how you arrived there.
P.
 

megabbobby

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i am really glad you started this thread and re-explained this stuff...very fascinating,potent,--the beautiful harmony of the universe is so great. i'm glad you interpreted it into english

chris
have you seen the scientists here lately that have made computerized limbs and such for paralyzed people?? using a computer that gets signals from sensors placed on various parts of the brain....like a signal from the forebrain would move a robotic 'left leg' foreward--etc.

the guys working on cyborg technology would probably really benefit hearing from you
 

pagan

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The nuclear trigrams are considered important showing the 'hidden meaning' of the hexagram. The nuclear trigrams, put together as the nuclear hexagram, is arrived at by eliminating lines one and six.
p.
 

lightofdarkness

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Hi Pagan,

> You are going to have to take me the long hand route to
> understand how the line positions 1-6 map to 1-32 and 1-64.

Each line is a representation of a set of qualities. The representation is created by the use of recursion of yin/yang to create a hexagram. Thus each line represents a quality extracted from powers of 2. Look at it as exponentiation reflecting the application of yin/yang to a moment, with each moment embedded in a context set by the previous.

Six lines of yin/yang reflect 2^6 possible expressions, where 2^6 = 64. In this building we move from general to particular, from worker to sage, or so the 'tradition' goes - this is but half the story if you include a focus on going 'down' once you are at the top!

The line POSITIONS form into representations of these 64 qualities - they reflect the SAME process in deriving the hexagrams as wholes, where pure potential is in 000000 and actualisation is in 'filling' the slots - and there are 63 possible ways to fill the slots of 000000, giving us in total 64 hexagrams. Zoom-in to a single hexagram and the SAME principle applies, there are 64 line positions to group (regardless of their content).

The ordering from the 'bottom' is in the form of line position grouping following binary numbering:

000000 = 0
100000 = 1
010000 = 2
110000 = 3
001000 = 4
etc etc
The full set, using just line number summing in hexagram 02 is (binary number is in braces - [ ], hexagram number in brackets - ()):
(note that this sequence reflects inserting YANG into YIN moving UP hexagram 02 . It is also derivable from the 'natural' binary sequence derived horizontally (02, 23, 08, 20.....34, 14, 43, 01) by rotating each hexagram in that sequence).

Line 0 [00] (02 - potential - the whole hexagram, no focus on lines, positions, etc)
Line 1 [01] (24)
Line 2 [02] (07)
Lines 1 & 2 [03] (19)
Line 3 [04] (15)
Lines 1 & 3 [05] (36)
Lines 2 & 3 [06] (46)
Lines 1 & 2 & 3 [07] (11)
Line 4 [08] (16)
Lines 1 & 4 [09] (51)
Lines 2 & 4 [10] (40)
Lines 1 & 2 & 4 [11] (54)
Lines 3 & 4 [12] (62)
Lines 1 & 3 & 4 [13] (55)
Lines 2 & 3 & 4 [14] (32)
Lines 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 [15] (34)
Line 5 [16] (08)
Lines 1 & 5 [17] (03)
Lines 2 & 5 [18] (29)
Lines 1 & 2 & 5 [19] (60)
Lines 3 & 5 [20] (39)
Lines 1 & 3 & 5 [21] (63)
Lines 2 & 3 & 5 [22] (48)
Lines 1 & 2 & 3 & 5 [23] (05)
Lines 4 & 5 [24] (45)
Lines 1 & 4 & 5 [25] (17)
Lines 2 & 4 & 5 [26] (47)
Lines 1 & 2 & 4 & 5 [27] (58)
Lines 3 & 4 & 5 [28] (31)
Lines 1 & 3 & 4 & 5 [29] (49)
Lines 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 [30] (28)
Lines 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 [31] (43)
Line 6 [32] (23)
Lines 1 & 6 [33] (27)
Lines 2 & 6 [34] (04)
Lines 1 & 2 & 6 [35] (41)
Lines 3 & 6 [36] (52)
Lines 1 & 3 & 6 [37] (22)
Lines 2 & 3 & 6 [38] (18)
Lines 1 & 2 & 3 & 6 [39] (26)
Lines 4 & 6 [40] (35)
Lines 1 & 4 & 6 [41] (21)
Lines 2 & 4 & 6 [42] (64)
Lines 1 & 2 & 4 & 6 [43] (38)
Lines 3 & 4 & 6 [44] (56)
Lines 1 & 3 & 4 & 6 [45] (30)
Lines 2 & 3 & 4 & 6 [46] (50)
Lines 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 6 [47] (14)
Lines 5 & 6 [48] (20)
Lines 1 & 5 & 6 [49] (42)
Lines 2 & 5 & 6 [50] (59)
Lines 1 & 2 & 5 & 6 [51] (61)
Lines 3 & 5 & 6 [52] (53)
Lines 1 & 3 & 5 & 6 [53] (37)
Lines 2 & 3 & 5 & 6 [54] (57)
Lines 1 & 2 & 3 & 5 & 6 [55] (09)
Lines 4 & 5 & 6 [56] (12)
Lines 1 & 4 & 5 & 6 [57] (25)
Lines 2 & 4 & 5 & 6 [58] (06)
Lines 1 & 2 & 4 & 5 & 6 [59] (10)
Lines 3 & 4 & 5 & 6 [60] (33)
Lines 1 & 3 & 4 & 5 & 6 [61] (13)
Lines 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 & 6 [62] (44)
Lines 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 & 6 [63] (01)

These line combinations are the 'meaning', all else is suppressed to bring these patterns out. If you include what has been suppresed then you 'see' 6 line images of yin/yang - here all we see is patterns of yangness used to bring out qualities hidden in the realm of potentials - 000000.

Thus lines 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, when taken as individually, reflect 'snapshots' into the 64 possible positions. Thus when you get to line 6, there are 32 more line position combinations to go! ;-)

Chris.
 

lightofdarkness

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Hi Megabbobby:

>
>
> the guys working on cyborg technology would probably really
> benefit hearing from you
>

:) I am working on that ;-)

Chris.
 

lightofdarkness

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Hi Pagan, re nukes....

....another perspective is that 1 and 6 are not eliminated, just their content is replaced by the content of lines 2 and 5. This indicates a focus on containment/control (in that line positions 2 & 5 reflect association to 29) - if we keep doing this we end up with four hexagrams 1,2, 63,64 - note how 1,2 focus on PURITY and STRUCTURE, whereas 63,64 focus on MIXING and PROCESS (BEGIN-END etc) (and are, the first two and last two pairs of the traditional sequence)

There is scope here for further investigations, but I am too tied up with XOR-ing and AND-ing at the moment ;-)

Chris.
 

lightofdarkness

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BTW - in the context of my last reply re nukes, note that the 1,2 pair, overall, reflects purity and so XOR, structure, discreteness, and the 63,64 pair, overall, reflects mixing and so AND, process, continuum. Put them into a sequence and the dimension, as a whole, reflects XOR/AND, aka differentiating/integrating - indicating the recursion of 'something' (values of 1/64?) to get an order like that - now see http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/cracked.html

Chris.
 

pagan

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Hi Chris,
Wow, when you look at the numerology of the
pattern here (the numbers in brackets []):

Line 0 [00] (02 - potential - the whole hexagram, no focus on lines, positions, etc)
Line 1 [01] (24)
Line 2 [02] (07)
Lines 1 & 2 [03] (19)
Line 3 [04] (15)
Lines 1 & 3 [05] (36)
and on and on...

It is amazingly similar to esoteric numerology in terms of the meanings of numbers. Thank you so much for going to the trouble.

I managed to read through the posts here several times to get a handle on it, and believe it or not I am really getting the hang of it.

I don't want to go into it at this time, but what you have established fits very well with astrology and Tarot in many ways, showing an underlying universal pattern. I am still having fun playing with it.
P.
 

lightofdarkness

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Hi Pagan,

Thats the idea, have fun playing and so discovering! ;-)

The common ground is in the use of recursion of dichotomies to elicit 'meaning' - as such Astrology/Tarot (western) have focused on recursion of 'earth/air' to elicit that dichotomy in more refined form and a new dichotomy of water/fire etc - the advantage of the IC is that it keeps going with the clear representation of the underlying template - thus from earth, water, fire, air comes the next step to give the eight trigrams etc.

For some diagrams see "The Logic of the Esoteric" - old page but still applicable - http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/esoter.html

Note that we are not dealing with the 'facts' of Astrology/Tarot, more so how they are structured to elicit meaning; their nature as rich metaphors.

You may also be interested in http://www.ozemail.com.au/~ddiamond/taro.html

Chris.
 

yly2pg1

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I tested with few of my colleagues. It do works! And it works well (90%). But you have to 'focus' on the result.

Could that explain why I Ching works?

Because,it could help IDM to probe into our brain dynamics and mind exploration?
 

lightofdarkness

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For the I Ching to work you need to set a context in the form of a question - otherwise it is a set of universals, like 1,2,3,4,,,,,, pure numbers waiting for application ;-)

Focusing attention will 'encapsulate' and so form a context and the I Ching will 'shine through'.

your comments above suggest an attraction to a 'spiritual' interpretation where there probably is none - have to see what the program etc does first ;-) - noting that the range of numbers and symbols is ordered, finite and so linked in some way.

Chris.
 

yly2pg1

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Hi Chris,

i notice a pattern ...


XOR-AND brain dynamics

(1) A XOR B = C
C describes A as the expression of A as a property of B.
IOW, C is a distorted expression of A by a filter B.

(2) A AND B = D
D is interpreted as a method to satisfy the needs of A
given its operation in a context of B.
A is not inside B itself, it is in a relationship with B,
both are separate but one in serving as context.

E.g.1
H27 XOR H51 = H35
H27 AND H51 = H05

further, H35 XOR H05 = H01 --> (H27 XOR H51) XOR (H27 AND H51) = H01 ---(3)
and, H35 AND H05 = H02 --> (H27 XOR H51) AND (H27 AND H51) = H02---(4)


Back to the game:

http://www.niehs.nih.gov/kids/mindread/psychicSparkle.swf


An example of the algo dictates:

90 - (9+0) = 81

81 is a distorted expression of 90 by a filter (9 + 0)
If that is true, by definition of (1), we can deduce

90 XOR (9+0) = 81 (where A=90, B=(9+0), C=81) ---(5)


From (3), we can further derive (?) that (over-simplified, i guess!):

(9 XOR 0) XOR (9 AND 0) = 81 ---(6)


So, if we play the game in an iteration manner, we would get something like:

90 - (9+0) = 81 --->(9 XOR 0) XOR (9 AND 0) = 81
81 - (8+1) = 72 --->(8 XOR 1) XOR (8 AND 1) = 72
72 - (7+2) = 63 --->(7 XOR 2) XOR (7 AND 2) = 63
63 - (6+3) = 54 --->(6 XOR 3) XOR (6 AND 3) = 54
54 - (5+4) = 45 --->(5 XOR 4) XOR (5 AND 4) = 45
45 - (4+5) = 36 --->(4 XOR 5) XOR (4 AND 5) = 36
36 - (3+6) = 27 --->(3 XOR 6) XOR (3 AND 6) = 27
27 - (2+7) = 18 --->(2 XOR 7) XOR (2 AND 7) = 18
18 - (1+8) = 9 ---->(1 XOR 8) XOR (1 AND 8) = 9

9 - (9+?) = ? ---->(9 XOR ?) XOR (9 AND ?) = ?


That explains why the game will not yield 'accurate' results only from (1 to 9).
There will be accurate results from (10 to 99).
 

lightofdarkness

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Hi Yly2pg1

> i notice a pattern ...
>
>
> XOR-AND brain dynamics
>
> (1) A XOR B = C
> C describes A as the expression of A as a property of B.
> IOW, C is a distorted expression of A by a filter B.
>

yup.


> (2) A AND B = D
> D is interpreted as a method to satisfy the needs of A
> given its operation in a context of B.
> A is not inside B itself, it is in a relationship with B,
> both are separate but one in serving as context.
>

umm... ok ,yup. My focus has been on A traversing B or 'causal' in B to end-up with D, but what you say here covers that. That said, I am still vague on interpretation in that AND can operate WITHIN as well as BETWEEN in that it links all parts into a sequence - IOW its external, vague, form is semantic, its internal, precise, form is concentrated semantics forming what we call 'syntax'; IOW there is a 'parallel' form (all parts linked and expressed as one 'immediately' - instincts/habit expression) and a 'serial' form (all parts ordered into a syntax-determined 'all' where expression over time elicits an 'all', a whole meaning)

In the brain this 'AND' is manifest WITHIN in an exaggerated form when using amphetamines - the sense of 'power', or 'clarity' in consciousness reflects an integration of all parts into a tight sense of 'wholeness', a sense of 'me'; IOW the AND, the integration, goes to validating the XOR - the differentiated 'me'. The extremes in this mean that the focus on sameness (AND) is threatened when difference (XOR) is introduced into the local context - where the AND nature has been projected into the local context and so that too is 'mine' or 'me' - reflects the territorial mapping processes of our selves and ancestors. Introduce difference into that context and, behaviourally, paranoia develops in that an A/NOT-A state has been created. This seems to touch on how we deal with paradox, A/NOT-A in the same space/time is 'unacceptable'. (http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/paradox.html) - this is of course all exaggerated due to the drugs, but it does bring out these aspects working in our unconscious etc.

> E.g.1
> H27 XOR H51 = H35
> H27 AND H51 = H05
>
> further, H35 XOR H05 = H01 --> (H27 XOR H51) XOR (H27 AND
> H51) = H01 ---(3)

Ok - 01 as the realm of maximum actualisation (differentiations)


> and, H35 AND H05 = H02 --> (H27 XOR H51) AND (H27 AND H51) =
> H02---(4)
>
>

ok - 02 as the realm of maximum potentials (integrations)

> Back to the game:
>
> http://www.niehs.nih.gov/kids/mindread/psychicSparkle.swf
>
>
> An example of the algo dictates:
>
> 90 - (9+0) = 81
>
> 81 is a distorted expression of 90 by a filter (9 + 0)
> If that is true, by definition of (1), we can deduce
>
> 90 XOR (9+0) = 81 (where A=90, B=(9+0), C=81) ---(5)
>

yeh .. ok...

>
> From (3), we can further derive (?) that (over-simplified, i
> guess!):
>
> (9 XOR 0) XOR (9 AND 0) = 81 ---(6)
>
>

;-) ok...


> So, if we play the game in an iteration manner, we would get
> something like:
>
> 90 - (9+0) = 81 --->(9 XOR 0) XOR (9 AND 0) = 81
> 81 - (8+1) = 72 --->(8 XOR 1) XOR (8 AND 1) = 72
> 72 - (7+2) = 63 --->(7 XOR 2) XOR (7 AND 2) = 63
> 63 - (6+3) = 54 --->(6 XOR 3) XOR (6 AND 3) = 54
> 54 - (5+4) = 45 --->(5 XOR 4) XOR (5 AND 4) = 45
> 45 - (4+5) = 36 --->(4 XOR 5) XOR (4 AND 5) = 36
> 36 - (3+6) = 27 --->(3 XOR 6) XOR (3 AND 6) = 27
> 27 - (2+7) = 18 --->(2 XOR 7) XOR (2 AND 7) = 18
> 18 - (1+8) = 9 ---->(1 XOR 8) XOR (1 AND 8) = 9
>
> 9 - (9+?) = ? ---->(9 XOR ?) XOR (9 AND ?) = ?
>
>
> That explains why the game will not yield 'accurate' results
> only from (1 to 9).
> There will be accurate results from (10 to 99).
>

LOL! love it! ;-)

BTW - for material on the brain working as a high/low pass filter see comments/references in http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/general.html

Chris.
 

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