Time for action?

[kiri]

I have a friend who is a liar and betrayer. The thing is she covers it up very well by acting innocent, which comes very naturally to her. Nevertheless, noone knows of her misdeeds, only me, because she betrayed me. I have seen firsthand how she pretended she did not do the things she did, and how she twisted the story, pretended nothing happened, gained support and got rid of her detractors.

It has been a long time, almost 2 years. Still she has not been found out. Even my date thinks she is not guilty. she was trying to plant seeds of mistrust between me and the guy i was seeing for a long time. I told him about it but apparently he did not believe me because she is still his friend.

Thus, she has managed to cause a huge rift between us because he thinks i am accusing her for nothing.

i want to take action, but i dont know how. I asked if I start from little steps like writing it on msn messenger, my thoughts on betrayers.. how will my date react? It said 49,1,2,4>48.

What is the I ching suggesting?
It is very sad, to me, that the person that I love did not believe me the first time i told him, rather he chose to believe the betraying friend.

 

[willowfox]

This is a good idea as all three lines are about changes which will produce some beneficial results for you, so your boyfriend will see and start believing what you have to say and thus get him to think more deeply about who is lying and who is telling the truth, but don't be petty or vindictive in your disclosure, stick to the facts.

 

[kiri]

Thank you Willowfox. For a long time, I doubted myself; saw myself as they saw me. Because me and my boyfriend broke up due to me bringing it up about her, i actually sort of accused him of seeing her because it was what she projected.. also he kept defending her i did not know if he was two timing or whatever. I still really do not know, but now me and him have come into contact, he also wants to be back with me.

however, we are not talking yet..

I actually asked another question: Does he believe me, that I am right about her? Hex 6,1,2,3,5,6>55
The only unchanged line is 4. the lines are actually confusing and does reflect action or no action taken. I am wondering, if the hexagram describes me, or describes his thoughts? also, the lines do warn against me taking action, do you think so?

I will attempt to write something, but am thinking of how to phrase it, as u said, not vindicitve or petty sounding.

It was just strange to me because I thought the world supports justice, but from what i witnessed first hand, it is the manipulators and the conniving people who actually win and get away with it..

 

[willowfox]

Yes indeed, justice is pretty much a myth because if you know the right people you can get away with murder.

Your second answer suggests at the moment he still won't believe you, so you have to discreetly put the evidence before his eyes so that he can see for himself. You cannot just blurt out that she is guilty because you will end up fighting again, if you want him to believe then you are going to need to be clever in your presentation of the facts, so that he can judge for himself, on his own.

 

[kiri]

The thing is that I cannot live with this betrayal. I am really wondering what is going on in his mind. If he does not believe me, thinks i cooked up a story, why does he still want to be with me?
We were not in contact for about a year plus. But a year later, I found he missed me, but if he does not believe me, why does he still want to be wth me? The iching replied, 9,2>37.

the thing now is, he is still good friends with her, but he is seeing me. to me, seeing her is like a betrayal to me, yet i dont know what actually happened..

" Nine in the second place means:
He allows himself to be drawn into returning.
Good fortune.

One would like to press forward, but before going farther one sees from the
example of others like oneself that this way is blocked. In such a case, if the
effort to push forward is not in harmony with the time, a reasonable and
resolute man will not expose himself to a personal rebuff, but will retreat
with others of like mind. This brings good fortune, because he does not
needlessly jeopardize himself."

He allows himself ot be drawn into returning. Why does he do that? and why does he not want to talk and resolve things? he prefers to believe her..

 

[willowfox]

if he does not believe me, why does he still want to be with me? The i ching replied, 9,2>37.

The two things are really separate issues, yes he is a friend of hers but he wants a relationship with you, not the same thing.
So, I'm sure that he doesn't even want to talk about "your" problem concerning her, therefore if you want him back then you cannot bring the subject of her into your relationship, like face to face, otherwise you will clash yet again.
The choice you now have is to keep quiet about her when talking with him otherwise you will have problems. Proof needs to be shown and in a way that it looks to be coming from another direction.

 

[kiri]

Hey Willowfox, you hit the nail on the head again.

"So, I'm sure that he doesn't even want to talk about "your" problem concerning her, therefore if you want him back then you cannot bring the subject of her into your relationship, like face to face, otherwise you will clash yet again."

Yes he does actually see it as my problem regarding her. What you wrote was actually something he would say. And yes, that is right that we would clash again..

Thing is that i have no concrete proof except from memory, because i brushed them off and when i realised what she did it was a turning point for me..

but the basis of our break was due to her and I am not sure why he does not see her lies and manipulation..
So I am wondering if he will see the truth about her lies and manipulation soon, and i got 48.1>5.
An old well, does it mean he does not want to dig into the old trench? And 5, does it mean I have to patiently wait? I am wondering what the muddy old well refers to.. is it something dirty long put away - like our conversation?


I agree Willowfox, it is 2 seperate issues.. I think he sees it that way as well, but I did not.. i saw it as interconnected, because it was the basis of trust.. the "friend" is very conniving and is not a good person. the fact he does not see it puzzles me as he is having a very toxic friend around him.. someone i would stay 100 miles away from. why? she is my and his childhood friend. i know her true self now, but he does not, and based on the long friendship he shared with her, he believes in her innocence. But that also means he does not believe in mine.. and this is troubling...

 

[willowfox]

Line 48.1 literally indicates a subject that is both murky and old to him and therefore he has no intentions of wading around in a "cesspool", so the best you can hope for is that oneday he will see the truth for himself.

Some people can be really blind to what is going on around them, and plus he seems to be a person who really doesn't want to see either.

 

[kiri]

You're right Willowfox, i am really not sure why he is like that. but then I will have to live with the thought that he thinks I'm crazy for saying stuff about his friend. it is quite ridiculous when he holds the stance of ''shes just having one of her crazy babbles'' - and to think I told him stuff and he not only did not listen, yet still talked to her even more makes me think there is something more to it.. just that i dont get it..

 

[gene]

I'm sorry to throw fire on the water but this is all crazy! There is always, one and only one answer to a situation like this, and that is to disengage. Simple as that. If she really is manipulative, don't hang with her. If he doesn't believe you, so what? Do you still want to be with him? Then be with him. If not, don't. If you disengage, what possible difference can it make whether he believes you or not? If he finds out, he finds out. If he doesn't he doesn't. Who cares? Or is there a bigger issue here? Yes, there is, but I won't go into it.

And the universe is just, perfect, 100% all the time, never fails. How old are you? can you see everything from top to bottom? Of course not. Don't worry about justice, just disengage.

Gene

 

[kiri]

Gene,

Thank you for your words. Yes I have disengaged; this happened long ago. I have learnt alot of things in the process. I agree it is crazy.. i was crazy, at least now I am saner.
I have learnt to identify psychopaths and betrayers - my close girl friend was both. But the sad thing is my guy, and everyone else does not know about her.

It is like, you know a secret that is important, but nobody believes you.

I have also learnt that it is easy for a sociopath to infiltrate a friendship circle, because there is not a constant flow of communication all the time; nobody really knows each other more than they portray.

I have also learnt that I need to have more faith in the person I see.
Also, men and women see things differently. my guy actually thought I was nuts when I told him that. why? because she gave a different face to me and him, and this happened. communication is so important, but alas, I couldnt make my guy communicate when he didnt want to.

I realise I really could not do anything about it - i tried the best i could, all in full awareness of whats happening.

anyway, its over; i found out my bf didnt cheat; was a big misunderstanding, and he still loves me, but we really need to imporve on communication so this does not happen again........

also, she is out of my life when i found out.. but she is stil in his life.

I attract drama, but it will be right in time.

 

[gene]

Hi Kiri

Sounds like you've learned a lot of things, and that is good. That is what life is all about, to learn. And your answer was very nice, to me. That sounds like a really mature, understanding thing to do. I am glad you are taking care of things in your life, and good luck to you.

Men give different faces to men than to women, and I am sure women do the same thing quite often. Both, we are different, and we treat the opposite sex different.

Wishing you the best.
Gene

 

[kiri]

Thanks Gene.


I dug out something and decided to write it. One reason for the split was because he saw her as just a friend, while I saw her as trying to 'seduce' him? So when I brought it up to him he thought I was being ridiculous and had a flare up. For my side, I thought he broke with me so he could be with her!
The communication between men and women in a relationship is really humourous. There is so much misunderstanding.

I asked a last question regarding this; will he take my side in this, if i would approach him about it again (not so soon): it replied 28.2>31. I would think that yes he would see it in a different way from last time. So there's hope afterall, because its not possible for a relationship to develop without clearing trust issues up.

Anyhow, thank you all

 

[gene]

Kiri

If there are trust issues, you will have to discuss them openly.It does appear to be favorable.

gene