time frame for a toss

[dobro p]

I do an I Ching consultation every morning usually, asking a very open question about what I need to know right now. In about 7 or 8 instances out of 10, it seems that what the Yi gives me refers to what I've been through recently - it often echoes the contour of the previous day, in other words. Fair enough. I take that and work with it in the present.

Okay, I've got two questions. First, does this happen to you? Second, do you think I see the Yi's response as referring to the recent past because that's the part of my life I know (I can't know the future)? If this is the case, then it means that the Yi response refers to past, present and future, but I'm thinking it refers primarily to my recent past because that's the part I know best.

I guess I've got a third question as well. If I'm right, and if the Yi most often is actually directing my attention to the recent past, then I've got to ask why that is. Of course, this brings me back to the 'does this happen to you?' question, but I think another question is: do you think the Yi gives certain types of responses to certain types of people depending on the configuration of their personality and spiritual needs? In other words, maybe the Yi directs my attention to the recent past, cuz in my case that's what I need to know; but with another person, it might direct their attention to what's going on right now, but with a third person it might give them a sort of heads up about the imminent future. Whatcha think?

 

[ewald]

In my view the Yi reponds to "what's on your mind." That may not be consciously on your mind, as emotions and ego defenses may be obscuring what is really going on inside of you.
If you consult in the morning, with no particular question, what's going on inside of you is probably the last thing that was. Unless something important will be happening that day.

 

[getojack]

"In my view the Yi reponds to "what's on your mind."

Interesting, so you think the Yi Jing is like a psychological mirror, reflecting your thoughts back to you? But what about things that couldn't possibly be on your mind? Can the Yi not answer those questions?

 

[pakua]

Hi Dobro,

When you go back later after the day is done, and review the reading, do you find that it still seems to be in the past, or can some of the readings apply to the current day's events as well?

 

[ewald]

Getojack - Actually I don't think the Yi (or any other oracle) is reflecting your thoughts. It is reflecting intent. Admittedly, my use of the term "mind" was technically incorrect (which is why I used the quotes).

It is an interesting question whether the Yi is capable or not of answering questions that you know nothing about, not even in the deepest (or highest) parts of yourself.
I have seen it answer questions correctly that tapped into the intent of others (for instance about a job I was applying to and about how someone would deal with something I asked of him). But I'm not so sure there wasn't a part of me somewhere that knew that answer. Not consciously, but knew it nevertheless.
I haven't been impressed, however, with readings others have done regarding the outcome of world-scale political events.
However, the problem might be the ability of the one consulting the oracle to "ask the right question." If the person inquiring is not able to tap into the intent of the "situation," a correct answer may not be feasable. But I currently do believe, that if one is able to do that, it is.

 

[lightofreason]

Due to the structure of the IC it reflects 'all there is' as filtered through the self-referencing of the yin/yang dichotomy. That self-referencing, when it reaches level 6, gives us the I Ching hexagrams. HOWEVER, these 'discrete' forms are in fact representations of the whole that is made-up of the full set of 64. IOW each moment has all 64 hexagrams applicable but the local context then sorts that into
'best-fit/worst-fit' order.

Our consciousness is limited in its capacity to 5+/-2 'things' at any one time and so will try and focus on the 'best fit' - and the 'divination' methodologies claim to derive this 'best fit' - in so doing it ignores the full spectrum for an even more filtered perspective.

On top of this, our consciousness, as an agent of mediation, will try to force some interpretation of what is going on given the 'filter' of the 'best-fit' - even if the derivation methodology is vague enough to give any hexagram as the 'best fit'!

So --- outside of the traditional divination approach is the questioning approach based on understanding how our brain work in general. An example being the Emotional IC page or the basic IC+ questions page.

Note that the question approach recognises the value of the hexagrams as representitive of reality through the yin/yang filter but has issues with the use of 'random/miraculous' methods in determining what is going on. 3000 years later, we now have enough information re psyche etc to move beyond basic divination

Thus learning all you can about the structure of the IC and hexagrams leads one to be able to ask the IC questions that it can answer with a good degree of 'truth' involved - where the IC in turn asks of one's question some properties/methods that go to showing the situation at hand - no 'random/miraculous' method required.

Chris.

 

[rosada]

Along with the importance of intention, I find the way one phrases the question is crucial. In this example, Dobro, you say you consult the I Ching asking, "What do I need to know right now?" Now I'm assuming you are wanting advice for the day ahead, but perhaps this phrasing - asking for what you need to know "right now" - is limiting your answers to only giving you insight to the present and the immediate past. Perhaps if you were to rephrase your question to something along the lines of, "What do I need to be aware of today?" the responces would be more future oriented.
After reading your post I consulted IC asking, "What sort of useful information can you give to one who is consulting every morning as Dobro discribes?" I received 15.4.6 - 56 which I interpret to mean the IC can most definitely give wisdom for one as they prepare to go on about their daily travels. 15.4 says "Do what needs to be done without losing your quality of humility". That's good advice for every day!

 

[jesed]

Hi Dobro

Another aproach.

In traditional teachings, Yi Jing never talks about present/future without solving first the past. Because any development has its roots in the begining (7.1)

Best wishes

 

[jesed]

ps

You could find useful to find out how to place the answers in calendaric time. That is a basic tool to have a fruitfull use of the Yi (see the image of 61)

 

[lightofreason]

The IC 'talks' about anything - what was/is/will-be as well as what could-have-been/is-not/could-be; about facts vs values; about being reactive/proactive.

The process of self-referencing will encode 'purpose' in all created - it is that element that allows for prediction etc and all in a cause-effect context; the issue is that that spans generations and so the individual is a part, not neccessarily the whole.

 

[jte]

Apologies in advance for going off topic here...

"It is an interesting question whether the Yi is capable or not of answering questions that you know nothing about, not even in the deepest (or highest) parts of yourself."

Maybe the question shouldn't be what the Yi is capable of answering, but what they deepest/highest parts of yourself are capable of knowing? Dunno...

Based on personal experience (but not empirical, scientific evidence) I can say that the Yi can answer accurately about things that no "normal" part of myself, (that is, no part of my brain/mind/psyche that is widely recognized by science) would be capable of knowing. Things such as future events at a fine level of detail (for example, things that happened seemingly due to chance) and/or the alignment constellation of circumstances surrounding an event or issue.

Gives good advice too, generally... ;-)

- Jeff

 

[lightofreason]

Since the IC covers 'all there is' so it represents anything, anywhere, anywhen. The derivation of the IC through self-referencing makes it isomorphic to anything else derived the same way - and its source is our minds that develop through self-referencing... so the IC will 'resonate' with all minds.

The issue is in the method of access. Being self-referencing so it can describe itself and that is covered in the XOR material that allows us to extract a description of any hexagram through analogy to all of the other hexagrams (and so '27-ness' or '48-ness' etc) . These are of course GENERAL or UNIVERSAL forms and so in need of local context to add colour - which is what consciousness can do, does do.

The traditional methods of using coins and sychronicity are not consistant in their dynamic but are useful in giving one a perspective outside of one's current set of perspectives - and our consciousness, 'driven' to mediate/interpret can 'link the dots' where there are none - and so we move into the dynamics of the real/imagined dichotomy ;-)

Chris.

 

[frank_r]

Hallo dobro,

Very Interesting question:

"do you think I see the Yi's response as referring to the recent past because that's the part of my life I know (I can't know the future)? "

The upper trigram is the outside, the way we look into the world and how we see the world. More what we can see, the future. The trigram under is our innerself, how we see our innerworld, how we saw the world till now(our past). The connection between our past and our idea of present is now.

And how more free we are, the less we refer to are past and our idea of the future.
The more we can live at the moment. It's like our spirit is the mirror of our past and our future and how more we are aware of our own spirit(which lives in our Heart) which is connected with the TAO, how more we can go beyond our own duality and be are real self.

"If the heart can really become like an absolute void, it will necessarily be clear, and tranquil, and the dreams will give the sensation of life or of death, and consciousness will be profoundly expanded" Zhang Jiebin

Best wishes Frank R