Clarity,
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R
rosada
Guest
that should be spelled "Micheline". Sorry.
P
peace
Guest
To you all:
I admire your endeavor - and have read this thread a few times.
Just to add my voice:
This is too hard for me.
I can't keep up. It seems I read up on a line and then a few hours later you're about 10 lines ahead of me and it's too late to add.
Anyway - just wanted to add something to this thread.
I'll keep enjoying your efforts and hang out on "Friend".
Having fun reading!
Rosalie
I admire your endeavor - and have read this thread a few times.
Just to add my voice:
This is too hard for me.
I can't keep up. It seems I read up on a line and then a few hours later you're about 10 lines ahead of me and it's too late to add.
Anyway - just wanted to add something to this thread.
I'll keep enjoying your efforts and hang out on "Friend".
Having fun reading!
Rosalie
M
micheline
Guest
happy thanksgiving everyone.
Well,, the humble messenger admits to zeeal, little knowledge and a pride of Ego,Id divide. If we have no ego(yang/yin split)or Id(yin/yang split) (as I see it) and cannot experss it the tragedy of complacency continues. I think I was not consciously trying to be sarcastic.
Mitchline, Rosanda and Bruce thanks for knowing better than my self what I could not say differently. As for the Combat boots, a Soldier I am not but, but will cheer on from the maddening crowd.
Oh and Void, if you name is indicitative of anything, it is not some place where nothing exists, there seems to be plenty of activity being created when you are present.
Best wishes and Happy Turkey Day to All who Celebrate.
Mitchline, Rosanda and Bruce thanks for knowing better than my self what I could not say differently. As for the Combat boots, a Soldier I am not but, but will cheer on from the maddening crowd.
Oh and Void, if you name is indicitative of anything, it is not some place where nothing exists, there seems to be plenty of activity being created when you are present.
Best wishes and Happy Turkey Day to All who Celebrate.
R
rosada
Guest
9. Modifications?
There have been several double posts on hexagram 8 and some of them not in order. It seems to work, I think double postings and out of order line postings within the hexagram is part of The Way.
Also I note the pronoun "I" is being used rather than "You". This seems to be a positive modification.
There have been several double posts on hexagram 8 and some of them not in order. It seems to work, I think double postings and out of order line postings within the hexagram is part of The Way.
Also I note the pronoun "I" is being used rather than "You". This seems to be a positive modification.
- Joined
- Sep 15, 1970
- Messages
- 3,128
- Reaction score
- 210
I am having lots of fun reading this. It has speed and unexpected finds. The dragon seems to have set himself free, and goes its journey on fullfledged wings.
LOVED 5.7!
LiSe
LOVED 5.7!
LiSe
It had to happen didn't it. Threw 10 twice tonight. First time about if I was capable of one course of action 10,3 - obviously NOT. Then when asking well what then ? threw 10,1,5 and 6.
So I will be reading with interest anyones take on lines 5 and 6 in the other thread.
So I will be reading with interest anyones take on lines 5 and 6 in the other thread.
R
rosada
Guest
What beautiful thoughts for 11.1 and 11.2. Was feeling a little sad due to not being with family this year. Really helped me get into the now! Thanks.
gonna be away from a computer for a few days. Hope I don't Stagnate!
gonna be away from a computer for a few days. Hope I don't Stagnate!
- Joined
- Dec 1, 1971
- Messages
- 482
- Reaction score
- 33
Hi, Micheline,
what a wonderful poem...
I'll give the rest so that nobody would have to google it...
Courage is the price life exacts for granting peace,
The soul that knows it not knows no release,
From little things.
Knows not the livid loneliness of fear,
Nor mountain heights where bitter joy can hear,
The sound of wings.
How can life grant us boon of living, compensate
For dull grey loneliness and pregnant hate,
Unless we dare the souls dominion?
Each time we make a choice we pay
With courage to behold resistless day
And count it fair.
Amelia Earhart
what a wonderful poem...
I'll give the rest so that nobody would have to google it...
Courage is the price life exacts for granting peace,
The soul that knows it not knows no release,
From little things.
Knows not the livid loneliness of fear,
Nor mountain heights where bitter joy can hear,
The sound of wings.
How can life grant us boon of living, compensate
For dull grey loneliness and pregnant hate,
Unless we dare the souls dominion?
Each time we make a choice we pay
With courage to behold resistless day
And count it fair.
Amelia Earhart
B
bruce
Guest
Void, enthusiasm/excitement in 16.4 has a center. I'm sure you've seen hurricanes from satellite images? Everything moves around the center; hence eye of the hurricane gathers like a hair clasp, building great force (or achieving greatness).
B
bruce
Guest
Void, just as a personal side note, I prefer to try and visualize the Yi and its lines from nature's way. If human only analogies are made I believe it shrinks the values. Not that human value shouldn't be made; how can they not? But I personally can gain a clearer picture of what is happening in a reading if human/personal values are secondary to what is so evident in nature. It?s also why trigrams play an important role in my own study of Yi.
Ah, I see, its just I associate a hurricane with a negative consequence and 16,4 is such a positive line, thats why I asked you. Just recently more nature images will come to my mind in regard to hexes, I think it is helpful. Many like myself are so tightly encased in the city we forget nature exists sometimes !
B
bruce
Guest
Yes. Thing is, from nature's view, all that good and bad stuff doesn't exist.
B
bruce
Guest
(woops)
B
bruce
Guest
positive or negative?
B
bruce
Guest
The bird was first to find sanctuary in her new home. Birds of several species competed for squatting rights. This one won, and began building the nest. Soon others of the same species attacked the estate, killing the victor. It is still vacant.
B
bruce
Guest
Now let's say we change our lense...
B
bruce
Guest
While the struggle for life outside was still going on, another couple found the perfect residence beneath the sill of my front porch roof. They succeeded in building a nest and hatching their young. All seemed ?good? for the family. But one morning I walked out onto the porch, to see their nest on the hard tile floor, and their five featherless chicks with eyes not yet opened, taking their final breaths.
Nature?s checks and balances.
Cruel, we would say. And by human standards it was. But I now keep that nest on my own window sill: a reminder that my human values are nothing.
Nature?s checks and balances.
Cruel, we would say. And by human standards it was. But I now keep that nest on my own window sill: a reminder that my human values are nothing.
Yes I understand absolutely what you say and the way you have illustrated it with the picture actually makes the message hit home quite hard.
What made you take the picture ? If it is for your book then I think it very clever and effective - as illustration of a message say. If that photo and your words about it aren't being considered as a book then they should be !
I understand in itself a hurricane is not 'bad' of course. For those who lose their family and friends certainly the hurricane may bring them grief. Yet death is a fact, we all must lose those we love sometime, we don't choose how or when - we are animals in the natural world.
But when you saw the baby birds dead on your porch I think you probably felt some sadness ? That is nature also, your human nature, which I would say from what I know is a very kind and tender nature. Thats not 'nothing' isn't it the most precious thing you have to give ? (Seems a bit harsh on yourself to keep the nest where you can see it, but thats just my slant on it)
Interesting though, never in a million years would I associate 16,4 with the eye of a hurricane, but now I see it.
What made you take the picture ? If it is for your book then I think it very clever and effective - as illustration of a message say. If that photo and your words about it aren't being considered as a book then they should be !
I understand in itself a hurricane is not 'bad' of course. For those who lose their family and friends certainly the hurricane may bring them grief. Yet death is a fact, we all must lose those we love sometime, we don't choose how or when - we are animals in the natural world.
But when you saw the baby birds dead on your porch I think you probably felt some sadness ? That is nature also, your human nature, which I would say from what I know is a very kind and tender nature. Thats not 'nothing' isn't it the most precious thing you have to give ? (Seems a bit harsh on yourself to keep the nest where you can see it, but thats just my slant on it)
Interesting though, never in a million years would I associate 16,4 with the eye of a hurricane, but now I see it.
Synchronistic that Jenbrooks thread on 51 brings up the image of the injured shattered bird also.
BTW Bruce is there not somewhere in Hindu belief..? the notion that before mankinds 'fall from grace' when our consciousness was one with divine will, that then the 'lion lay down with the lamb', that nature was not cruel and wanton in destruction. That it is now is a reflection of our mass human consciousness here on this earth. Maybe I'm mixing it up with a Christian belief, before 'the fall' ..Hmmm I don't know where I got the idea, but you are probably familiar with it. Of course it suggests that when our species has returned to that state of unity, once again the 'lion will lay with the lamb' and nature be quite different. Unfortunately I don't think I will live long enough to see that vision of paradise realised lol
BTW Bruce is there not somewhere in Hindu belief..? the notion that before mankinds 'fall from grace' when our consciousness was one with divine will, that then the 'lion lay down with the lamb', that nature was not cruel and wanton in destruction. That it is now is a reflection of our mass human consciousness here on this earth. Maybe I'm mixing it up with a Christian belief, before 'the fall' ..Hmmm I don't know where I got the idea, but you are probably familiar with it. Of course it suggests that when our species has returned to that state of unity, once again the 'lion will lay with the lamb' and nature be quite different. Unfortunately I don't think I will live long enough to see that vision of paradise realised lol
B
bruce
Guest
Heck yes, I felt bad when I saw the chicks dying. I was stunned and more than a little confused by the whole thing. I watched daily with anticipation the family coming together, from the first straw of the nest. I asked myself, and even coyote, why? But I already knew the answer: because that's how nature preserves the survival of the species. End of story. No amount of human projection or anthropomorphosis can change it.
I took the picture because it was there, and taking pictures is something I do. I knew there was a lesson there somewhere, and perhaps the picture might find a way into communicating it. Turns out it is one of the pictures that coyote and I are using for the pictorial. We're only about a third of the way done with it. All images must be original photos or graphics, so it?s going to take awhile.
Good point about 'that is nature too, your own human nature'. I accept that; I just don't make it become any more than that. Long before ?my kind? occupied this earth, this went on. Probably long after we?re gone, too.
I took the picture because it was there, and taking pictures is something I do. I knew there was a lesson there somewhere, and perhaps the picture might find a way into communicating it. Turns out it is one of the pictures that coyote and I are using for the pictorial. We're only about a third of the way done with it. All images must be original photos or graphics, so it?s going to take awhile.
Good point about 'that is nature too, your own human nature'. I accept that; I just don't make it become any more than that. Long before ?my kind? occupied this earth, this went on. Probably long after we?re gone, too.
B
bruce
Guest
I find a very different view of life and death in Hinduism than in Christian beliefs. Shiva is both the creator and destroyer of the universe, and death is no less revered than life ? two sides of the coin . Brahman (universal source and mind), unlike the Christian deity, is not separate from the individual, nor are the pantheon of deities which emerge from Brahman. They are inseparable from the psyche. Liberation is achieved not through salvation from sin, but extinguishing the self that defines itself apart from Brahman. Nirvana is a state free of individual existence, and suffering thereby.
All too nihilistic for me to embrace at this stage of my life, but I find myself moving in that direction, more all the time. To be or not to be, or how great or small to be; those are my questions. Those who talk about ego and liberation from such don?t impress me much. Why would they talk about annihilation of ego if they didn?t possess a hefty one? I?ll continue following the Dao, as best as I?m able.
All too nihilistic for me to embrace at this stage of my life, but I find myself moving in that direction, more all the time. To be or not to be, or how great or small to be; those are my questions. Those who talk about ego and liberation from such don?t impress me much. Why would they talk about annihilation of ego if they didn?t possess a hefty one? I?ll continue following the Dao, as best as I?m able.
"the notion that before mankinds 'fall from grace...that nature was not cruel and wanton in destruction. That it is now is a reflection of our mass human consciousness here on this earth..."
But that's impossible, no? Maybe the ultimate meaning is something more along the lines of "ignorance is bliss." Also, nature isn't always cruel, in fact in my view it seldom is... Storms and death come around but they aren't the norm. For all the days you get to live, you only have to die once.
And after all, nature is what makes our lives and the good things in them possible in the first place. So, as cruel as it can be when the time comes, the kindness/benevolence/supporting aspect is much much more than the necessary negative side.
My two cents,
- Jeff
But that's impossible, no? Maybe the ultimate meaning is something more along the lines of "ignorance is bliss." Also, nature isn't always cruel, in fact in my view it seldom is... Storms and death come around but they aren't the norm. For all the days you get to live, you only have to die once.
And after all, nature is what makes our lives and the good things in them possible in the first place. So, as cruel as it can be when the time comes, the kindness/benevolence/supporting aspect is much much more than the necessary negative side.
My two cents,
- Jeff
B
bruce
Guest
Hi Jeff,
But isn't that still our own human projection, to call nature cruel or kind? And then which is which? Is birth kind and death cruel? Or possibly the reverse? And what conditions determine it?
On the other hand, what if nature knew nothing of cruel or kind? That would make us humans look pretty delusional, wouldn?t it?
But isn't that still our own human projection, to call nature cruel or kind? And then which is which? Is birth kind and death cruel? Or possibly the reverse? And what conditions determine it?
On the other hand, what if nature knew nothing of cruel or kind? That would make us humans look pretty delusional, wouldn?t it?
R
rosada
Guest
I asked the I Ching, "What is death?" and received 33.5 - 56 as in,
"Choose the right moment and you will be able to RETREAT from the situation in a perfectly friendly manner" changing to 56., Movin' on...
"Choose the right moment and you will be able to RETREAT from the situation in a perfectly friendly manner" changing to 56., Movin' on...
B
bruce
Guest
Rosada, what a great answer! This is one time when Wilhelm nails it. This could almost be straight out of the Tibetan Book of the Dead:
"In retreating the superior man is intent on taking his departure willingly and in all friendliness." (Thus neither demons nor gods can move him.)
"In retreating the superior man is intent on taking his departure willingly and in all friendliness." (Thus neither demons nor gods can move him.)
R
rosada
Guest
Thanks for being there to share it
Jeff all things evolve and change yes ? There have not always been people, lions or lambs. Therefore the relation between life forms also may not remain the same for ever. There is no reason why it should. I do not see it as impossible therefore that what we believe are the laws of nature at this time we are here on earth, are the rules for ever. I do not find it difficult to accomodate the idea that a 'utopia' has been or will be again. After all why should it not ? If the imagination of its creator is boundless why should the same format be stuck to, lol. Even knowledge we hold as sacred or true forever cannot be, only for an age or a time.
The fact that a lion rips the throat out of an antelope leaving the baby without a mother to die is reality now, but is not an immutable law - just the way things happen at this moment on this little planet, thats all.
The fact that a lion rips the throat out of an antelope leaving the baby without a mother to die is reality now, but is not an immutable law - just the way things happen at this moment on this little planet, thats all.