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To do or not to do... 50.4>18

loulisnowdrop

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It's been a long long time since I posted here but I find myself seeking the wisdom of Yi Ching regularly and kind of drifted away from sharing my readings.

Anyway, I'm in a bit of a dilemma and without giving too much detail, I've been given a notice to improve. I disagree with some of it and feel it is not based on the full facts. I can appeal it but it's not guaranteed appealing will improve or change anything. The problem being that I have employed a professional to do a job because I have no expertise in that sector and they haven't done it effectively however, the ultimate responsibility still lies with me and it is me that the finger is pointing at.

I asked "What if I appeal?" and I got 50.4>18 LiSe says of this line
"The vessel breaks a foot. The stew of the Gong is overturned, his appearance soiled. Pitfall.
When a Ding topples, everyone will be soiled, no matter who caused it. So be very careful in deciding by whom or how things will be handled or how you yourself handle situations."
This then leads to 18 - can of worms. I take from this that by appealing, I will make matters worse, everyone will end up soiled (I'm already in the proverbial and can't help but feel other people's actions/inactions have contributed to that so I'm not actually bothered about soiling others). The part that worries me is the can of worms... is an appeal somehow going to make my situation even worse by bringing more shortcomings to light?

If I don't appeal, I am therefore accepting the conditions of the notice and will have to jump through the hoops identified within a certain time frame. I do want to jump through the hoops but feel the timeframe given is unrealistic and potentially unachievable. If I don't meet the requirements within the timeframe, I'm potentially in even more trouble so I also asked "What if I don't appeal?" and I got 47.2>45 for this line, LiSe says
"Confined with food and drink. A seal with scarlet string comes. Make use of an offering. A rectifying expedition will be a pitfall, avoid faults.
Life can be good and yet one feels beset. No passion, no recognition. When the possibility to make a mark comes, then accept it with caution and deference. Don't run with it but stay sincere and make it work."

I can't quite get a feel for this line other than I should just accept the situation and expect a lack of recognition. There will be no pat on the back for meeting targets. The resulting 45 is making me think of serving others who don't care for no benefit of my own. I suppose if I don't appeal, that's exactly what I'll be doing. The part about a rectifying expedition will be a pitfall doesn't sound good. If I don't appeal, I will therefore be on a rectifying expedition.

Can anybody enlighten me on the symbolism of a seal with scarlet string? Does anybody have an insight of which reading is more favourable? Normally I'd say appeal something if you don't agree with it but the resulting can of worms for this option has really stopped me in my tracks.
 

rosada

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Not trying to tell you what you should do but just focusing on what I think the I Ching is saying :

50.4 As a comment on your considering appealing I think this line is saying you have been humiliated by this resent experience and 18. is saying appealing would stir up some awareness and get folks to consider if the regulations are really appropriate.
I don't see this as saying anything bad comes to you, simply that this is what it means and thus you can consider if it's worth your time?

47.2 reads to me as if to say you don't absolutely have to appeal, you could just go along with the situation although you may feel oppressed. The seal and string could refer to someone in a position of authority in the situation. The line says "No blame" so it doesn't appear you would be at a great disadvantage if you just go along with the ruling > 45. maybe thus you are able to go along with the job, be one of the group.

Altogether I see these hexagrams as saying you could make appeal if it's worth it to you but in reality you'll be okay if you just keep on keeping on.
 

loulisnowdrop

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Thank you Rosada, I've been mulling it all over and I've decided that I am going to appeal. My appeal was already written, I just hadn't submitted it but it does need to be done today if I'm doing it. I really can't think what can of worms could possibly be opened to make me look any worse... Let's see what they've got.
 

rosada

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You go, Girl! I hope you'll keep us posted on how it turns out and what you find 18 as the second hexagram means.
 

my_key

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I asked "What if I appeal?" and I got 50.4>18
At the point of Yi answering your question you are floating in a sea of corruption which if correctly addressed will bring you to a place of stability (18). Yi is directing you towards grabbing the renewal that is lurking somewhere in the darkness and which if taken will correct this situation (50). To best achieve this you are tasked with sharing all you know with those around you while not blowing your own trumpet. Do what is right.
"What if I don't appeal?" and I got 47.2>45 for this line,
If you don't appeal then you'll be swimming in a fog that gets thicker and thicker (45). As you swim through this all your worst imaginings will meet with each other and potentially exhaust you (47). Here, if you don't appeal you will be challenged, perhaps too greatly challenged, to hold it all together and remain strong in word, mind and deed.

... or it might mean nothing at all like this for you.

Take Care.
 

Trojina

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Anyway, I'm in a bit of a dilemma and without giving too much detail, I've been given a notice to improve. I disagree with some of it and feel it is not based on the full facts. I can appeal it but it's not guaranteed appealing will improve or change anything. The problem being that I have employed a professional to do a job because I have no expertise in that sector and they haven't done it effectively however, the ultimate responsibility still lies with me and it is me that the finger is pointing at.

I asked "What if I appeal?" and I got 50.4>18 LiSe says of this line
"The vessel breaks a foot. The stew of the Gong is overturned, his appearance soiled. Pitfall.
When a Ding topples, everyone will be soiled, no matter who caused it. So be very careful in deciding by whom or how things will be handled or how you yourself handle situations."
This then leads to 18 - can of worms. I take from this that by appealing, I will make matters worse, everyone will end up soiled (I'm already in the proverbial and can't help but feel other people's actions/inactions have contributed to that so I'm not actually bothered about soiling others). The part that worries me is the can of worms... is an appeal somehow going to make my situation even worse by bringing more shortcomings to light?

If taken as a direct answer it is saying that if you appeal there's risk of shame, more mess, it just won't work for you. It's a horribly messy answer. The professional you employed sounds like he tipped the stew over you and if we read it like that it might possibly say 'take this wrong doing to appeal/explain it etc' but it can't really can it since you chose the person who did a bad job.

Therefore it's better not to make the appeal and simply improve as requested. If we take it directly as you asked this line is telling you it is a bad idea to appeal.

If I don't appeal, I am therefore accepting the conditions of the notice and will have to jump through the hoops identified within a certain time frame. I do want to jump through the hoops but feel the timeframe given is unrealistic and potentially unachievable. If I don't meet the requirements within the timeframe, I'm potentially in even more trouble so I also asked "What if I don't appeal?" and I got 47.2>45 for this line, LiSe says
"Confined with food and drink. A seal with scarlet string comes. Make use of an offering. A rectifying expedition will be a pitfall, avoid faults.
Life can be good and yet one feels beset. No passion, no recognition. When the possibility to make a mark comes, then accept it with caution and deference. Don't run with it but stay sincere and make it work."
I think 47.2 is very apt for what they are asking of you. Moreover this really won't turn out to be such a big deal it's far more a case of 'keeping them happy', 'showing willing', making an offering. I think this is the way forward.

If you appeal you blow it out of proportion and make a mess in the process. If you comply it may be less irksome than you imagine now, it's way more of a case of really showing willing I think. In fact if you appeal for more time for example, showing you really want to fulfil their conditions, I think things will get easier.
 

Liselle

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What Trojina said.

I see where Rosada's coming from with the 50.4 reading - like, what tense is it in? If you appeal will that cause more of a mess, or is Yi describing that there already is a mess, and that's what the appeal will deal with? (Not sure I'm saying that comprehensibly, let me know, please.)

47.2 to 45 - I think you might get credit for making efforts. Big efforts, though - 45 is no picnic.

The scarlet sashes strike me as being humor-able. They interrupt your dinner with a lot of demands, but "all" you really need to do is give them food and drink and act pleased as heck to see them. "Offerings and oblations," not "abandon your meal entirely."

Don't know if that's right, though. I'm not terribly sure of that line.

Bottom line, at least for me: if you haven't submitted the appeal, don't. If you have, as it proceeds, pull back as much as you can from any combativeness. Make concessions, indicate your eagerness ( :cheer: ) to fix everything, while perhaps, depending on how things seem to be going, managing to sneak in a few of your more important points here and there very gently.
 
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rosada

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My-Key,
I'm seeing 45 as the group she works with as in if she doesn't appeal she will be 47. Oppressing herself - going along to get along - in order to continue to be a part of the 45. Group.
I'm not seeing how you get 45 as "a fog that gets thicker and thicker"?
 
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loulisnowdrop

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Just a quick update... I sent off my appeal. Whilst I don't want to talk details on a public forum, this isn't about employment. Nobody is criticizing my work ethic (how could they, I'm perfect!)

I did read your responses before I appealed... even the slightly curt one that seems to have been deleted. I don't really see how this thread warranted that though. Thank you all for your insights.
I had to send a copy of the appeal to the person who issued the notice. I received an automatic reply saying they have left their position and I need to redirect my email.

After submitting my paperwork, I consulted Yi again... maybe I should have asked this before sending the appeal but I asked "How will 18 manifest?" 63.5>36
"The Eastern neighbor slaughters an ox. Nothing compared to the Western neighbor's Yue offering in really receiving his blessing.
Never get used to plenty. Keep seeing life as the thing one has to make new every day. Full of expectancy, looking for miracles, asking the gods for blessings, surprised and grateful when all goes well. When prosperity becomes ‘normal’, one might lose it one day, and moreover not be able to live without it anymore"
I feel this line is warning me not to expect to much or don't expect miracles. Be grateful and appreciative of any positives no matter how small. As for the resulting 36, I'll stay quiet and in the shadows and not be pushy about the appeal.
Aside from the readings, the appeal will be granted or it will not. If not then I shall simply have to deal with the improvement notice and jump through the hoops with a very tight deadline.
I've been told I will get a response within 10 days. I'll make sure I feedback
 

Atalanta

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I think you're getting a pretty clear message from the Yi not to appeal.

You feel some of the criticism was unfair: what conditions led up to this? By which I mean, could you have communicated better? Or (coming from someone whose been in a lot of workplace bullying situations, and I'm assuming this is something job-related) is someone or something undermining you? Maybe the criticisms are better founded than you'd like to admit?

Appealing would make you look petulant, I suspect, and 47.2 to me suggests swallowing your pride. Take responsibility for rectifying the situation, even if it might not be entirely your fault. 45 to me suggests winning people to your side because you handled this situation with grace.
 

rosada

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How will 18 manifest?
I find the Image for a hexagram tends to describe what one should do in the situation. The Image for 18 says "The superior person rouses the people in order to nurture the life force" so right there I think you are being encouraged a superior person would appeal.
So how will this manifest?

63.5
The Eastern people slaughter oxen.
This is not the way of the Western people's sincere spring offering.
Genuinely accepting their blessing.

I see the person who reprimanded you as being the "Eastern people" who tried to make a big deal out of nothing and you as the "Western people" who will be recognized for your simple, sincere truth.
36 then advises you "The noble one, overseeing the crowds, uses darkness and light." I think who ever is in charge of deciding the issue will recognize that this is not a situation where it is useful to shine a big light or make a big deal of things. Perhaps this is also a reference to the person who issued the reprimand having faded into darkness, that is, they no longer hold that position and thus the whole issue fades away.
Anyway, I predict the appeal will go well.

And the winner is.....?
 
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marybluesky

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Hello,

I read 50.4>18 as something valuable to you has been devalued, so why not address it & confront the corruption? It's not easy to predict the result, but that's how I see the cast.

47.2>45 says if you don't appeal, you'll lose the opportunity (to stand for yourself).

How will 18 manifest? 63.5>36 shows small, sincere evident is enough to correct the situation. You won't have to make a big sacrifice.
 

Trojina

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Just a quick update... I sent off my appeal. Whilst I don't want to talk details on a public forum, this isn't about employment. Nobody is criticizing my work ethic (how could they, I'm perfect!)
To emphasise (to other respondents)this is not about a work situation. I thought it was but it's not. I'm now thinking it is to do with buildings/planning that sort of thing when L said

Anyway, I'm in a bit of a dilemma and without giving too much detail, I've been given a notice to improve. I disagree with some of it and feel it is not based on the full facts. I can appeal it but it's not guaranteed appealing will improve or change anything. The problem being that I have employed a professional to do a job because I have no expertise in that sector and they haven't done it effectively however, the ultimate responsibility still lies with me and it is me that the finger is pointing at.
If I read this as you are being told to improve a property the emphasis does shift somewhat because the stakes are high if one makes an appeal in one's workplace. If one makes a big fuss it can have repercussions. But if this is about improvement to property then how can appealing hurt if they can only say 'no'. If appealing can hurt in any tangible way don't do it but if not....

Just saying that as I think we all thought this was about work and it does make a difference if it's about a property.


How will 18 manifest?
I find the Image for a hexagram tends to describe what one should do in the situation. The Image for 18 says "The superior person rouses the people in order to nurture the life force" so right there I think you are being encouraged a superior person would appeal.
So how will this manifest?

But one doesn't usually take the Image of the relating hexagram as advice? If the Image describes what to do in a situation how can you go by 2 Images, the primary's Image and the relating's Image? It's the Image in the primary you look at surely? One change line will supersede that anyway. And whether appealing works or doesn't work I just can't see the Image of 18 as advice. 50.4 is the focus of the answer. It's the corruption(18) of the Cauldron(50).

The question of how 18 will manifest? A question about another answer? 18 is not the future, you are not waiting for it to manifest it is already right there in the situation.

I don't get this idea of looking for 18 to manifest - it's already there, right there in the change line, the cauldron is corrupted it is not a future event.

You're in the 18 now
 
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rosada

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Mary - cool insight for 50.4!
 
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my_key

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My-Key,
I'm seeing 45 as the group she works with as in if she doesn't appeal she will be 47. Oppressing herself - going along to get along - in order to continue to be a part of the 45. Group.
I'm not seeing how you get 45 as "a fog that gets thicker and thicker"?
Hey Rosada
Let's see if I can shine a bit of light here.

My interpretation was
If you don't appeal then you'll be swimming in a fog that gets thicker and thicker (45). As you swim through this all your worst imaginings will meet with each other and potentially exhaust you (47). Here, if you don't appeal you will be challenged, perhaps too greatly challenged, to hold it all together and remain strong in word, mind and deed.

Here I'd seen the relating hexagram,45, as the context. The swimming in the fog aspect alludes to the way 45 is pervading all aspects of the circumstances here. Hex 45 adds a flavour in its image of elimination and dissolution of frustrations (this is swirling around with unspoken influence) which if not addressed through gathering resolve will only grow. Hence as the direction of the primary hexagram is towards oppression, restriction and exhaustion I must have seen this as a thickening of the fog should a path of truth not be followed.

For me, I did not see 45 as the group she works with but can very easily align with 47 as being self oppression. We seem to have arrived at a similar interpretation through diverse routes. My interpretation looking back now looks to merge primary and relating together - swirling like a wispy fog that is not going to dissipate without there being an action taken in line with the image of 47.

I hope that makes things a bit clearer for you.

Take Care
 

loulisnowdrop

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I just want to say thank you for all of your insights. I will update when I can but so far I haven't heard anything back. I'm currently addressing things that need to be done but I was anyway. Every time I've tried to do something positive, I've been prevented from doing so hence the reason I don't think I'm being treated fairly. As soon as there are any developments with the situation, I'll report back.
 

Liselle

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In the meantime it'd be really fabulous if you could pick away at updating your past threads. 😃 Anyone who replied to them who is still around - and also people reading the archives, which is a popular thing to do around here - would really appreciate it.

For instance, what arrangements did you make for your dog over Christmas back in 2014?
What happened with your job search? Were you able to stay where you were training?
What did you do about your red hair dye, and what do you think the reading meant in hindsight? We ladies are curious!

And so forth - there are quite a few threads and readings it'd be nice to have updates on. The outcomes, a little bit about what you think the readings meant.

Do you know how to find your list of posted threads? If not, here's how (click on images to enlarge them):
  • Hover over your name above any of your posts.
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  • A popup will appear. Click your name in the popup.
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  • You'll be taken to your member page.

  • Click on the "Find" button, and then on the link to "Find all threads by loulisnowdrop".
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Or just bookmark this page: https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/index.php?search/6534/

(I get a kick out of your signature, by the way. 😂 )
 

Trojina

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Just bumped up the hair dye thread as that was never even acknowledged/seen by the look of it
 
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BlindedFox

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"What if I appeal?"
50.4>18, a third party is being damaged, you need to get in there and get the corruption out. After that, you will set an example on how to work in the future with outsourcing.

What if I don't appeal?"
47.2>45, you need to do what is right, if you don´t you will be kept disconnected from authorities. Even if people talk about it, resent it, whatever, be truthful, speak up and do what is correct. It will take some time but there will be a hearing and everybody will see. Just keep the fight by the rules and dont become too agressive. That could put you on further hold.
 

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