To Eat or Not to Eat

[cal val]

Hiya D...

I was referred to this thread because it was thought I might discover something of particular interest here, and I've actually found much of interest! So I'm glad. I'm not going to try to interpret your reading because I think you have a lot of great stuff here to work with already.

I do want to offer, however, something that may be of value to your book.

POST MENOPAUSAL WOMEN AND RISK OF HEART DISEASE:

I'm an O blood type which means, according to your research, that my body can handle meat, and my body HAS handled meat quite well... until recently that is. But being post menopausal now (with increasing stiffening of the arteries and rising LDL levels), my risk for heart disease has increased substantially, and I've done considerable research on diet and exercise programs designed to reduce the risk.

As a result, I've changed my diet considerably. In short, in order to protect my cardiovascular system and keep my LDL levels low, besides cutting down on fat and oil and using only the right kinds of oil, I've cut out all red meats entirely and eat only small portions of chicken (skinless) or fish rich in Omega-3 fatty acid. It's not necessary, of course, to cut out all red meat, but since it has higher levels of cholesterol than other foods, I choose to. I've increased my intake of vegetables (some in particular), fruits (low-sugar in particular) and whole grains (oats in particular). Lowering the animal protein (my diet consisted of more than 15% total protein... shame on me) and raising the WHOLE grains has been particularly important in my fight against cholesterol and heart disease. What I really find interesting and hadn't thought much about before I had to change my diet is that a heart-smart diet is also great for cancer prevention because of the anti-oxidant properties.

If you like, I can refer you to a lot of articles I've read on the subject, but I suspect you've probably already read them yourself... and then some. Let me know if I can help anyway. I'll be happy to.

Thanks Dharma for yet more food for thought. Oh dear... sorry... the pun wasn't intentional.

Love,

Val

 

[Grandma]

I think the Whinicup translation supports vegetarianism in 36.3-24. The commentary on the line says "The upright minister is no longer willing to acept the affliction of an unworthy ruler. He seeks elsewhere for a better one and finds him." Eating meat could be the unworthy ruler. then in 24 it says A friend comes and he suffers no harm.
He is not harmed by not eating meat and also an animal could be a friend who is not harmed. (maybe?)

 

[dobro p]

Hi Hilary -

Moderating again? lol

"Though I think Dobro's made it pretty clear that he's talking about his feelings and how it seems to him, not about Wrong Questions."

Yeah, that's why I described my idea as 'my bias' again and again - it's not just an opinion, it's an opinion which colors the way I see things significantly. Which should make it easy for somebody to ignore if they want to lol. Demitra - ignore me now! Finish the book! lol

 

[micheline]

I think maybe Dobro's point could be that you, personally, might get a differing Yi answer than someone else, asking the same question.....I asked about meat-eating for optimum health in general and got 24.1 > 2
vegetarian eating for optimum health: 51 >16

My comments about some vegetarians looking pale and "dried-out" was not really a comment on people who had health issues.... and I really wasn't even making a judgement about the choice..it was just something I had noticed through the years....often it was the people sitting behind the counters in health food stores!! people who professed to be extraordinarily health -conscious and militantly vegetarian, who looked sort of dried out and thin and NOT healthfully robust and dewy... It made me think twice before considering a veg diet....

I also used to do group food cleansing experiences....in these, as a group, we would adhere to pure, subscribed diets and undertake to cleanse ourselves on every level.....physically, emotionally, and spiritually......Undertaking a diet of purer substance, and especially doing it together as a group, sharing our experiences, was definitely a profound experience.......

As we cleansed physically, emotional issues would emerge for each of us individually.....the whole energy of the group was raised......it was an opportunity to partake in the group energy and to dissolve a lot of personal issues, physical, emotional and spiritual.

In many of these cleanses, we used protein powder, and in most there was ample leeway for chicken and fish....of course no unrefined sugars, caffeine, etc..the really "bad stuff"....

BUt one thing became clear in some of these experiences...and that was that people had differing needs. One of the cleanses, for instance, was primarily a grains diet.....lots of grains , vegies, and no animal protein.....I had a very hard time with that one while others thrived on it. I am a very active Veda type...as opposed to Kapha and Pitta.....I have thin frame body, tend towards excess nervous energy, and I was also a distance runner at the time. Then, and even now, my body tells me it needs a lot of protein to feel optimum energy...... protein and fat also seem to regulate my body sugar....whereas a high percentage of whole grains make me very tired.

Also, a strictly vegetarian regime would produce, in me, a kind of gnawing hunger and the strong desire to sink my teeth into a juicy steak. (And I am NOT a big meat-eater anyway, esp red meat, but I do eat it occasionally. I am type A, with low cholesterol) One could say that the gnawing hunger was simply a phase that would pass if I continued to stay off meat and adhered to vegetarian fare.......

BUT my question was if it really was a wise thing to ignore the messages of my body.....the body has its own wisdom.....I dont think people, in american culture at least, really listen to their own bodies...the signals have gone so askew that the body's messages are like whispers that are no longer heard because most are used to eating way too much and indiscriminately.

and some one can actually think they are needing a Big Mac....

BUt after a cleanse, the body's messages become clearer.....and not everybody's messages will be the same. Like I said before, too, I think you can't separate the physical from the emotional and spiritual....there could very well be a time in personal "evolution" where meat is appropriate and grounding......because too much "higher energy" cannot be adequately handled...and the body is wise. The body is wise, I will say that again!
Maybe the most important thing for anyone to learn is not WHAT to eat, but how to listen to their own body and respect it's wisdom...in every area.

All that said, I certainly don't like the idea of slaughtering animals in cruel ways, and I never eat veal for that reason......yet, there are humane farms -few and far between unfortunately- where animals are respected and loved..and yet they are still killed in a humane fashion for the purpose of providing food.

This might be a separate issue........HOW animals are treated and HOw they are routinely slaughtered without regard for their pain or discomfort. This might be something to separate from the debate as to whether it is healthful -or ethical - to eat meat. Then again, maybe it is inseparable. especially the ethical part.

 

[hilary]

Other Nations - an article by Asoka Selvarajah about this kind of thing. It makes the point (amongst others) that eating meat never used to mean regarding nature as a kind of glorified dispensing machine.

So much more to be said here... choosing a subset of the available foods is a cultural decision, ie a statement 'I am not just part of nature'. Chimps, after all, eat everything they can, including the occasional monkey.

But now some of us are using diet to distance ourselves from our culture. Think of raw-food-ism, fruitarianism, breatharianism (don't think of that too seriously)... what are these saying?

(I think there are two kinds of vegetarian, by the way, and it may make a difference to Yi which kind you're asking about.

In a supermarket, you can't tell the difference: they're both checking the labels for hidden gelatine. Shipwreck them on an island with nothing but grass and rabbits, and one will start scheming how to catch rabbits, while the other resigns herself to starvation.)

 

[jte]

"(meat) Affect on health & longetivity? 46.2.5 >39 "

More thoughts on this - line 2's message about a small sacrifice and the resulting 39 - perhaps suggesting that meat is better (healthier) in small quantities, kind of a "just enough" statement.

This is pretty much widely recognized anyhow, at least by the health-conscious, but perhaps Yi is just emphasizing the message.

- Jeff

 

[demitramn]

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I hope this throws some useful ideas into the pot.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

It sure does, Hilary! thank you for adding those textured soy protein chunks..
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...and Martin, it smells like a simple soup that, with everyone's help, evolved into a hearty veggie stew to me!

Sincere thanks to Micheline.. Susan.. and Jeff.. for adding the potatoes, carrots and celery, respectively..

Dobro, I know you did something to help the process along but I'm more inclined to ask you to refill my bottle of aspirin than to thank you for the tomatoes you forgot to bring. Perhaps you can wash dishes later..

and thanks to Val, too, nice to see you here

cheers to your health! Have a freshly squeezed one on me.. well now, you know what I mean..

..

Much has been said here that I can surely identify with, and surfacing in me too are the finer nuances that are not always so obvious when one is simply considering life along practical lines. It has been good to listen in on all your thoughts, that in many ways served as reminders of what is already a strong inner knowing and understanding of these matters.

This was the push that I needed to get me writing once again. I'm happy to say that my thoughts and ideas for this particular part of the book are finally beginning to spill out coherently. My writer's block, coupled with a tension headache, have both been overthrown - for now anyway.

I will let you all know whether I should require yet another push - if you are willing, of course.

I would so love to share what I have been working on all day but for one, it is too long, and for another.. well.. um.. wouldn't you all.. you know.. just want to sit down and read the whole darned thing from beginning to end - while curled up somewhere comfortable-like? I think it best.. now time for a rest.

Demitra

 

[gene]

No matter how good or healthy one's diet. It is absolutely necessary for truly good health to practice some form of chi kung, (qi gong). This makes the energy flow. Good food alone will make a difference but in the long run not the real difference.

Gene