To reincarnate or not to reincarnate...that is the question

martin · Sep 28, 2003

Quote:
"Will we destroy ourselves in ecological catastrophe, human misery, and war, or will we be transformed in a great quantum leap of consciousness?"

Interesting question, perhaps we can have a poll?

My answer is "probably neither of the two".
I don't think that we will destroy ourselves, I also don't think that there will be a quantum leap.
As I see it this planet and the physical system to which it belongs fulfills its purpose as it is.
There is no need for a quantum leap or another drastic change.
Souls come here to have certain experiences and if they want other experiences that this system cannot provide they will simply go somewhere else.

Obviously many souls come here because they want to experience struggle and conflict.
So there is a lot of turmoil, but I think our physical system can have that.
It was build for that purpose and will not break apart.
Of course this doesn't mean that we shouldn't try do something about the pollution of the planet, wars and other kinds of suffering.
But AFAIK there is no need to fear a catastrophic breakdown.

dharma · Sep 28, 2003

Pretty leafy sea dragons, Hilary. Is a birthday coming up? Are you hinting?

D

<CENTER>In Lak'ech
(Mayan code of honor)
"I am Another Yourself"</CENTER>

cal val · Sep 28, 2003

Louise...

When you first posted, I was really fascinated that you have an awareness of a previous place but no memory of it. I can't even imagine what that's like.

I would love to hear more if you're inclined to share more.

Cheerio the noo,

Val

gene · Sep 28, 2003

Or, to leave a world of such unsurpassed beauty. What a disappointment. But...

http://www.webshots.com/samplers/

gene · Sep 28, 2003

Hexagram 24 could be about reincarnation.

cal val · Sep 28, 2003

Gene...

Unsurpassed beauty? By whose standards of beauty? Beauty is a very subjective quality. And how do you know it's unsurpassed? Have you been to every planet/star/asteroid/place in the universe? And, if so, do you remember them all? Do you remember anything from before you "landed" on planet earth?

Last question: Are you getting a commission for advertising for webshots? *grin*

The first six questions were serious. The last one was not. I started this thread because I was curious about reincarnation. Nothing's changed in that regard. And I'm still curious about the Yi's answer about reincarnation, though Hilary pretty well made sense of lines 50/1.5 for me in her first post (which gives me chills to read).

I'm going through some more changes lately. But it's not about facing inner truths this time. It's about "Why am I here?" I want to know so that I can accomplish my purpose...if I even have one. Why are you here? Why is Louise here? I strongly suspect it's not just about learning lessons. That would be so so so self-indulgent. We must be meant to do something with our lessons...or in repayment for our lessons. Something.

I know part of it is to contribute in some way to make this planet a better place to live. Anything else? I aksed the Yi why I'm here and they answered 20/1.5 to 27. I wonder what those of you who ask the same question might get. I'd be curious to see what the Yi tells you.

Cheerio the noo,

Val

louise · Sep 28, 2003

Hard to explain Val, well not hard impossible to describe really....I think we all know it, but we can't remember....that doesn't make sense does it.

I have the sense that when we are born its like going into a heavy and restrictive suit of clothes
having been naked and unbounded. I know I was always quite cross to be here, though on some level it must have been chosen.

Like you I am having 'visitors' though they come not when I'm asleep as I remember but when awake -I sense them, though don't see them with my physical eyes. I think many many people are experiencing this now. I think 'they' are preparing us for 'the huge transforming leap of consciousness' referred to above. Thats got to be good hasn't it. Despite that I am still a miserable git, but they probably think its very funny - even I know its absurd to be angry to be alive - on some level. Its just I know it can be so much better, I remember, yet I don't.

I think they come from other dimensions, the veil between us being far more penetrable than we ever knew, maybe it makes me impatient to be there with them, to be off, because I know and remember them (somewhere).

Thankyou for the link above Dharma, its not that life is meaningless as such, just excruciatingly painful at times. I think of those who wish to come back here as playful, puppylike souls who haven't been worn down yet, I look at them in wonder thinking "haven't you suffered enough" - that is not meant as an insult it is genuine wonderment.

BTW often I am quite happy, sometimes very happy, but I still don't want to come back. Having said that if you ever do meet me on another dimension and I am moaning about it and wanting to get back to incarnate again remind me what i said here.

Gene, am struggling to understand your post about disapointment ?

gene · Sep 29, 2003

Louise

First, I really really liked your post. Disappointment that in the midst of this (yes, Val) unsurpassed beauty is so much to not want to come back to. How could anything be more beautiful as those pictures on Webshots? Another planet can be "as beautiful," not "more beautiful." It is simply impossible. Have you ever been in the Olympia National Forest? Or seen the white pines of Northern Idaho, next to a beautiful lake with waters that are so calm? The sun coming over the mountains? The Saguaro desert at sunset? Then you know why I say unsurpassed beauty. I don't want to come back here for so many reasons. But I will miss the beauty of the cascades, rain clouds over the pacific at sunset, etc. etc. However, the world may change so much I may want to come back. The conditions? We build our own homes, we grow our own food, there is no exchange of money, no working for someone else, no crime, no government, (the government prosecutes criminals because they don't like competition) we live in total harmony with nature, our minds so developed that whatever we visualize strongly comes true immediately,(which by the way is theoretically possible, we just have to build enough of a light body to give our higher selves the energy to create the conditions.) Then I would love to come back.

Gene

cal val · Sep 29, 2003

Louise...

You're not the only one to have told me you're having a similar experience. And one of the others senses something big coming as well. If I'm suddenly being made aware of a realm outside this physical earthly realm...of all people with the mindset I've had, I can't help but believe something is coming down. I just think it's a gradual transformation...and I think it's wonderful. Another thing that makes me think so is that I get hex 16 a lot lately. And I feel something very spiritual about it when I do.

I haven't had any visits in awhile. It's been quiet here. The last one was right after someone here posted a really negative post about a couple of readings I got. The visitors kept showing me that the "thing" (partner) they were building on the other side of my bed needed fixing, and they had a sense of urgency. At the same time, the Yi started answering 28 and 18 to everything for about a week. I knew what they wanted me to fix, but I couldn't figure out how to fix it. Finally after about a week of this and also thinking about what I really want for myself, I just said, "AHHH SH**" and sat down and poured my heart out in a post. I didn't care what anyone thought of it...even the Yi. I just needed to be honest with myself (and anyone involved) and express what I really want...my heart's desire. As soon as I did, the visitors left and the Yi got quiet again. And peace returned to my life.

I think (I don't know for sure though) that they've ceased their visits lately because I'm accepting what they've shown me, I've cleared away the big obstacle to the next step in my path, and I'm following the advice of the Yi with a calmness I never felt before.

Something else very strange has been happening in the past few days though, and this is the first I've spoken of it. It's got me a little freaked out. I keep hoping it's my imagination. I kind of feel like the Pied Piper of Hamelin. It's happened about five times...twice in the same day. Kids I pass or who pass me suddenly burst into a big smile and wave at me like they know me and are very happy to see me. One just wanted to get close like I was her grandmother or something. I've never seen these kids before in my life. I've had kids slowly warm to me, or quickly warm to me, but that's not what this is. These kids act like they know me! The first time it happened, I thought I was really getting senile because I didn't recognize the kid who "knew me," and I waved back like I knew her too so as not to look senile, but then it happened again right after that. And then again and again and again.

Cheerio the noo,

Val

dharma · Sep 29, 2003

Louise,
like I said, the experience of happiness is highly dependent on perception and that's ultimately a personal choice. I don't enjoy suffering either and being angry is very much a painful experience for me, so I choose to go the way of the silly puppy.

Laughter and sadness are all part and parcel of this life experience -you really can't have one without the other- both arouse and enliven us to our feelings and awakening us from the emptiness of numb.

Love stimulates us with laughter and playfulness and we want more... but then love also troubles us with the compassion necessary to identify with others - and this pains us... but pain is meant to alert and rouse us to action and change... withdrawl back to the emptiness of numb, however, leaves us bereft and bitter with the whole experience.

I speak from my own experience with life... when I understood this truth, I changed my perception. with love, D

<CENTER>In Lak'ech
(Mayan code of honor)
"I am Another Yourself"</CENTER>

dharma · Sep 29, 2003

Look what I found in my mailbox just after I posted the above:
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!>Quote:

"No lions are ever caught in mousetraps. To catch lions you must think in terms of lions, not in terms of mice. Your mind is always creating traps of one kind or another, and what you catch depends on the thinking you do. It is your thinking that attracts to you what you receive." <CENTER>~~Thomas Dreier</CENTER><!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

<CENTER>In Lak'ech
(Mayan code of honor)
"I am Another Yourself"</CENTER>

martin · Sep 29, 2003

From the perspective of our greater being there are no next lives or former lives, because time as we seem to know it does not exist for that being.
Part of it lives in AD 1300 , another part in 2500 BC, another in AD 2600, still another in 2003, and so on. And there are parts that live in other worlds ...
All these lives communicate with each other. Information and understanding goes back and forth, not only from the past to the future but also from the future to the past.

This is, basically, Seth's view. When I read it for the first time (?) I immediately felt that it was true, although I had no way to verify it directly.
In the conventional view time is a kind of narrow pipeline. Although we have memories we cannot go back in time or forward in time. We are stuck in this moment.
The same view also tells that we live "in" this body and that we can't get out as long as we live. As somebody wrote: we are imprisoned in a dying animal.

With such ideas it's not at all surprising that some of us feel that they are trapped.
Conventional religious and spiritual ideas, although they give us some hope, usually make this feeling of being trapped even stronger.
Bad Karma, the wheel of karma, we will have to work very hard to escape, it is very difficult, and so on.
Even the apparently farout idea of a quantum leap that suddenly frees the whole planet is still very much a part of conventional thinking.
It is based on the feeling that we are somehow trapped, imprisoned and that something miraculous
needs to happen to free us.
But we, as the greater beings that we are, are already free. Nothing can imprison us.

I feel that this is true, I have no doubts about it. I hope you can also feel it ..

Martin

hilary · Sep 29, 2003

Dharma quoted...
"Your mind is always creating traps of one kind or another, and what you catch depends on the thinking you do. It is your thinking that attracts to you what you receive."

And on another thread, on the subject (let's face it), of us asking the wrong question, Yi said "the small one uses power, the noble one uses a net."

Martin - absolutely agreed.

Louise - excuse me a moment while I find a good place to roll ecstatically. Right here looks good. Now, wouldn't you like this beautiful stick?

dharma · Sep 29, 2003

(admiring Hilary's stick) I'm game!

but just for a short while... that pile of work is calling my name!

<CENTER>In Lak'ech
(Mayan code of honor)
"I am Another Yourself"</CENTER>

hilary · Sep 29, 2003

Dharma, where are you digging up all these brilliant images all of a sudden?

dharma · Sep 29, 2003

Hilary,
Occasionally, for fun, I create slide-shows for my poetry

and need animated images and music to piece together my little 'shows'

. Sooo, over the years I've gotten into this habit of just copying/saving gifs & jpgs that attract my attention. I've always had them, it just never occured to me to use them on the board ...until now

.

Now if I could only get you to hear the sound of these lovely...

...

<CENTER>In Lak'ech
(Mayan code of honor)
"I am Another Yourself"</CENTER>

cal val · Sep 30, 2003

Dharma...

Where might one see one of these slideshows? Do you have some web pages of such...or, if not, at the very least...some of your poetry?

There's no website listed in your profile. However, I see a picture of a very lovely young woman that wasn't there before.

Ciao for now,

Val

dharma · Oct 2, 2003

Val, you asked: "Where might one see one of these slideshows? Do you have some web pages of such...or, if not, at the very least...some of your poetry?

I appreciate your interest but much of my poetry at this time is tied up in the tarot-meditation project that I am working on and is not available for public consumption

. The slideshows serve as a form of play that allow my creativity to surface in my on-going efforts to develop a completely unique product; they help to trigger my imagination so that I can see precisely how each poem integrates into the overall tarot journey. Truly, in their present state (out of proper context) I can't imagine that they would be of any interest to anyone but myself.

I haven't a clue how long this will all take either as I am allowing this baby to birth itself by following its lead mainly, but just as important

to work on it. Thanks for asking anyhow.

<CENTER>In Lak'ech
(Mayan code of honor)
"I am Another Yourself"</CENTER>

cal val · Oct 12, 2003

Hello everyone...

I know this thread is already very long, but this is where this little story belongs. I napped today. And I dreamed. Yes...yet another dream from my warped little mind.

In the dream...

Arthur and I were an item. Married I believe. A very happy and contented couple. Very familiar and at peace with each other. Arthur was inventive and had invented his own little airplane. It was one of those two-seaters, one in the front and one in the back, that were popular during the 40s and prior. It didn't need a lot of speed to take off. It just needed to catch the wind.

Arthur and I took frequent little trips in it, and I enjoyed them very much. I enjoyed soaring over the homes and fields and trees and things. I felt a sense of freedom flying with Arthur. One day we packed up the plane and took off. It couldn't gain much altitude. It was weighted down, and I told Arthur I thought it was a particularly heavy piece of luggage I had put in the cargo area.

Then we were flying through our home. My daughter was there, and I was talking to her as we floated by slowly. I told her I was going away and would be back shortly. She said, "But Mom, I don't want to be alone," and as we flew off, I told her to run stay with her dad until I returned.

Then we were in the living room of our home, and there was a disembodied voice speaking to us. I don't remember what he said, but I got the crux of it. And I said, "Arthur! Does this mean we're dead?!?" Arthur calmly said, "Yes, dear." And the disembodied voice continued, "Yes you are dead. We kept it a secret from you for nine months." I said, "Nine months?!?" Then I asked, "Arthur?!? Was I pregnant?!?" And then the realization hit me. I said, "Oh no!"...gasped for air in shock and woke up from my nap gasping for air and feeling momentarily paralyzed, as if a heavy weight was on top of me.

Cheerio the noo,

Val

hilary · Oct 12, 2003

Val, have you read Richard Bach's One? If not - this is a recommendation, definitely.

cal val · Oct 13, 2003

Hi Hilary...

Well I just did research on Richard Bach's One. Sounds interesting. Sounds like I should probably start with Bridge... though. What do you think?

The dream was really pleasant. The relationship with Arthur was really comfortable. The dynamics were perfect. He was the peaceful, shy, retiring type, I was the gregarious one of the pair, and we fit like gloves. We both liked it that way.

My concern was waking up momentarily paralyzed. So I did some research on that as well. I learned it's a sleep disorder. And what I experienced are commonly reported symptoms...weight on the chest and gasping for air. It usually accompanies lucid dreaming. Most people, however, panic. I didn't. I knew I just had to wait a few seconds for it pass. You'll laugh but I knew it would soon be over because it was the moment of birth in the dream carried over into consciousness. And it was soon over.

Since this is the first time (and probably the last) I've ever experienced anything like it, I'm not going to run right out to a sleep disorder clinic...*grin*

Cheerio the noo,

Val

malka · Oct 13, 2003

Val,

I'm sure that was a scary experience. Waking paralyzed, where one cannot even speak (or move their mouth, arms, trunk, legs, etc.) is not uncommon at all. It tends to happen when someone has had a bad dream they wish to escape from, and that usually happens when people are under some stress, experiencing anxiety, etc.

It's only a "sleep disorder" when it happens regularly. And then, it's associated with various other medical conditions. Once in a while...no big deal, but definitely scary.

Be well,
Malka

cal val · Oct 13, 2003

Hi Malka!

Nope...wasn't scary at all. I just realized I couldn't move, knew I would be able to soon and waited until I felt the weight lift off my chest. It was only a few seconds.

I was concerned is all...not for my safety or health...but for the psychic implications. I was pleased to learn it happens to others.

Actually, I thought it was kind of cool when I realized I was paralyzed because I knew it was the dream continuing into consciousness, and I liked being conscious of an unconscious experience. Plus I doubt it will ever happen again.

Cheers,

Val

malka · Oct 13, 2003

Val,

I'm glad to learn you weren't scared and that it was actually "kind of cool" for you.

Be well,
Malka

To reincarnate or not to reincarnate...that is the question

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