Toki-Moai is a very powerful aid

[bruce_g]

First step to achieving levitation is to lighten up. ~ Swami Suchadementedone

 

[hilary]

To add to the pot and stir it vigorously... about asking people to pay for magical things. To pay for something is to place value on it. A magical act in itself - and a kind of magic that works, I think.

I offer to do a full-length free, private reading each month for someone who can't afford one otherwise. The people who take me up on this offer are less likely than paying customers to be there to take my call for the reading at the time we agreed. Also unlike paying customers, they're very, very unlikely to contact me after the reading with further questions, or to tell me how things worked out. Mostly - not always, but mostly - I won't hear from them again.

Sometimes when people say these things should be free, they really mean that money is dirty and spiritual things shouldn't be contaminated by it. At other times, methinks, they mean, 'Spiritual things are worth less to me than my cable TV subscription.'

Whoever said that this thread is off-topic, you're absolutely right. Divination isn't being discussed here worth mentioning. It's a great thread, though. I'll move it...

 

[luz]

Is my cable service more valuable to me than 'spiritual' things? yes!!!

There is definitely a suspension of disbelief required to believe in the Yi but that doesn't mean that now I"m going to believe everything I'm told. I think a healthy dose of skepticism is necessary to survive in this world.

Under the right circumstances, I would probably purchase and treasure my toi mokai little seal but, just because I saw an ad on the internet?? If I followed all the ads I see about magical stuff (and that includes diet books as well), pretty soon I'd be out of, not only cable service, but food and shelter as well.

As for comparing this to an I Ching reading by Hilary, I see no comparison. Even if the I Ching didn't work and was pure poppycock, I'm sure I'd get my money's worth from that reading :bows:

And I like what Lise says about the pebble in your pocket. I will go find me a nicely shpaed pebble that will fulfill my wishes and buy me a lot of ice cream with the money I've saved.

But, what I'd really like to know is: does anybody other than the original poster know toi mokai in particula and knows it actually works?

 

[hilary]

Thank you! :bows:

LiSe's globe-turning worked. Vision boards work (there's a story in The Secret of someone unpacking his vision board after moving house, and finding that the 'my ideal home' photo on it is actually of the place they just moved into). I see no reason why the toki moai shouldn't work in much the same way, do you?

 

[luz]

The thing is, this becomes a discussion on whether these kinds of thing 'could work' or not. But, to me, it's a discussion on whether toki moai works. Many things most definitely work but they have to be done right. So, what I hear is "yes, these things can work, but there is a missing ingredient that is in you. and, furthermore, if you have the missing ingredient, you don't really need the little seal, you can use just about anything to make it your agent of change".

Going back to the rosaries in Lise's example. They don't hold the power of prayer. You could get the same effect by counting your Hail Mary with little pebbles or grains of rice. The rosary is a tool but it's missing the essential ingredient. Which was probably the case with her globe, I doubt it that she had a 'magical' globe. Or that the person with the picture of a house in the story had to pay a lot of money for that picture.

Do I see a reason why toki moai doesn't work? I see all the reasons in the world why it shouldn't work just by purchasing it and then passively expecting things to just happen to you. Because magic doesn't exist. Things might work out in 'magical' ways but that doesn't mean it's magic.

Take psychic hot lines. Are there people that have special powers to see the future and what is hidden from you? Probably. But, are all psychics you can reach via an 800 number real? I don't think so. They hire them like they hire any telemarketer. I've had personal friends work as psychics and they didn't need any special qualification. They just have a knack for making the caller talk and finding out the right things to say. All that glitters is not gold.

 

[Tohpol]

To add to the pot and stir it vigorously... about asking people to pay for magical things. To pay for something is to place value on it. A magical act in itself - and a kind of magic that works, I think.

I offer to do a full-length free, private reading each month for someone who can't afford one otherwise. The people who take me up on this offer are less likely than paying customers to be there to take my call for the reading at the time we agreed. Also unlike paying customers, they're very, very unlikely to contact me after the reading with further questions, or to tell me how things worked out. Mostly - not always, but mostly - I won't hear from them again.

Sometimes when people say these things should be free, they really mean that money is dirty and spiritual things shouldn't be contaminated by it. At other times, methinks, they mean, 'Spiritual things are worth less to me than my cable TV subscription.'

Whoever said that this thread is off-topic, you're absolutely right. Divination isn't being discussed here worth mentioning. It's a great thread, though. I'll move it...

Completely agree. Of course, there's absolutely nothing wrong with paying for things. It's a necessary part of life. As with everything in this discussion, "the devil is in the details..." Like they say: "The love of money is the root to all evil" not the money itself.

I think the key thing is to discern the true value of the thing that's being offered as with anything.

Topal

 

[Tohpol]

Take psychic hot lines. Are there people that have special powers to see the future and what is hidden from you? Probably. But, are all psychics you can reach via an 800 number real? I don't think so. They hire them like they hire any telemarketer. I've had personal friends work as psychics and they didn't need any special qualification. They just have a knack for making the caller talk and finding out the right things to say. All that glitters is not gold.

Yes, and I think folks underestimate the prevalence and invasive nature of these dynamics that have such a fertile ground in the "love and light" crowd. Having been one myself at one stage and Very New Age I think there is no where on this planet where you can find such an easy market to sell your wares.

At the same time I think it's vital to keep that spirit of adventure, curiosity and wonder alive, knowing that this vast school we are in, really is an incredible work of art and with lots of goodness and beauty to be found.

But ya gotta keep tha BS-o-meter on red alert.

(my t-m is in the post )

Topal

 

[hilary]

what I hear is "yes, these things can work, but there is a missing ingredient that is in you. and, furthermore, if you have the missing ingredient, you don't really need the little seal, you can use just about anything to make it your agent of change".

Yes, that's exactly what I was trying to say.

I see all the reasons in the world why it shouldn't work just by purchasing it and then passively expecting things to just happen to you.

That, too.

 

[Trojina]

Thank you! :bows:

LiSe's globe-turning worked. Vision boards work (there's a story in The Secret of someone unpacking his vision board after moving house, and finding that the 'my ideal home' photo on it is actually of the place they just moved into). I see no reason why the toki moai shouldn't work in much the same way, do you?

If a symbol, such as i think the toki is works, then no it would not work in the same way as vision boards, globes or pebbles - its completely different. Vision boards and so on may help one focus, inspire, manifest etc etc through the power of ones wishes etc but that is not how using universal symbols handed down through a tradition works.

They really are different ways and everyone seems to want to fuzz them together to make Toki just like any other way of realising desires. My point is universal symbols, handed down through a tradition are way bigger than that, carrying alot more of non personal energy. A pebble that means something special is yours, the meaning is yours, it holds what you think it holds. A vision board is your creation, a way to help you manifest your wishes in reality. A universal symbol or mantra carries a special energy above and beyond your personal energy - for it to work for you your personal energy needs attuning to it - and this is generally done through ceremony/initiation of some kind with a teacher. I don't know what the Toki is exactly but I imagine it belongs to this category - so can it really be mass sold over the internet and carry the same energy ?

This really is more the realm of the esoteric and nothing to do with positive thinking and all that - i would say its magic thats alot bigger than fitting to your wish list - nothing wrong with wishlists and so on but it is a wholly different process in my view.

Phew anyway I don't care if it works or not, I'm not buying one if i don't know what it is lol and if i did i wouldn't expect all my dreams to come true over night - actually it would be boring if they did - hope the universe has a bigger agenda than my wish list for me

I don't think anyone knows what I'm on about

 

[hilary]

Curiosity, wonder and bs-o-meter. Never leave home without them.

Trojan - that's a difference I hadn't thought about, thank you. Is it wholly different, or is it (potentially) pebble-magic plus?

 

[Trojina]

Curiosity, wonder and bs-o-meter. Never leave home without them.

Trojan - that's a difference I hadn't thought about, thank you. Is it wholly different, or is it (potentially) pebble-magic plus?

Well to my mind theres a difference, but its the kind of thing the more you think of the less you are sure how different the differences are The main difference I'm pointing at is someone using symbols to access and integrate a frequency/energy pre existing - not belonging to them which one receives from a tradition via initiation/attunement etc and the idea of 'symbol' as just some object one chooses/creates to make a link between oneself and ones desires to make it manifest.
One is like a field you step into and share in, the other is something you make with your own mind, you posess it more.

Perhaps we just have a problem of definition cos i see a symbol as separate from any object - infact powerful symbols are often not inscribed permanently anywhere (or meant to be). I have some rose quartz pebbles a healer gave to me and they certainly had and still do have quite a powerful effect on me - even though i had no particular belief about them whatsoever. I don't mean they made my wishes come true but they certainly made my palms burn and sent me to sleep, nicely, lol - but i don't think of these as 'symbols' at all because they are physical objects which must have absorbed some kind of energy - what do i call them, um well crystals but they aren't symbols or talsimans.

But runes could be said to be talismans/symbols and divinatory tools all in one ? Will start new thread in discussion area

 

[renhaitx]

Can I ask you why you ordered three of them? Did somebody tell you that three is better is one, or is that your own idea?

Have you gone to the site www.toki-moai.org, it explains everything....Red - fast result, Black- longer but permanent, Blue - for remote people you relate to.

I don't understand why many people just hate Toki-Moai here, which was a unique simple for each person...Look at the site, there is no advertisement, nobody will tell me this only when I asked. Please look at the site again, there is NO sales B.S. there.....

If you think you get ripped off by $149 for your own Toki-Moai, think about when you purchase a CAR, a new CLOTH (how many profit you are ripped of)....If you go to shopping mall, when your cloth is on sale from $800 to $400, what do you think? Do you think you were an idiot to purchase an $800 cloth only worth $400?

I can't believe so many anti-TM here.

I am very upset when people saying that Toki-Moai is just something internet deal......The Toki-Moai masters live in a resort far away in TaiWan somewhere, how can they open a shop something to sell dynamic Toki-Moai? Even the normal talismans sold in the store are TOTALLY different from the REAL one.....After you order the Toki-Moai, you will know that Master will not respond to most inquires besides related to the order....Why don’t they seem to provide a good customer service? They don't NEED to and they have tons of requests daily! The Master is even very serious about toki-moai, they even pick a right time to mail it out.

I remember that was said 'Master creates your Toki-Moai to touch your life as you use your $149 to support their daily needs, your way of keeping them away from worry other than to keep the knowledge alive’......This dynamic Toki-Moai has the same power now as in 50 years.

The main reason I get on this discussion, is to get some advises from Laureet since he (she) said he had experienced very good result with using Toki-Moai...

Secondly I would like to share Toki-Moai to help others. Remember Master said 'Always use your toki-moai in a positive way, never for selfish purposes. Universe is a self regulating system and you get what you give.'

 

[Tohpol]

Have you gone to the site www.toki-moai.org, it explains everything....Red - fast result, Black- longer but permanent, Blue - for remote people you relate to.

Listen, Renhaitx,

You see one thing from Toki-Moai - I see another thing. That's fine. Go for it! Use it and be all you can be! If it works for you great. If you believe in the above then you believe it. If you get hope and satisfaction out of it - great. More importantly, If you want to share your possible good fortune with others then that's all to the good.

Also it promoted an interesting discussion about this subject and related subjects - so thank you.

Topal

 

[bruce_g]

I am very upset when people saying that Toki-Moai is just something internet deal......

I wouldn't be too upset, Renhaitx. Rejection from others just might be what you need, to make your TM truly yours. Do you think your master doesn't know this rejection?

 

[laureet]

Interesting...

Hello to all, I have been away (still am) on work so little or no time for forums, but I made a visit today (just for the taste )

I thought that this thread was dead but it seems someone ressucitated it. Lots of messages. I don't have the time to post an opinion on each passage awaking my attention, also I am too late in many parts of the debate, I want anyhow to leave some clarifications for the sake of reality.

1) Tokis are not mass produced, I have compared them and are completely different one another, I also submitted them to expert opinion and seem to follow some principles about gender, profession, year of birth and alike. (Before you buy you fill up a questionary pretty much as for an astrology chart by the way)

2) Magic exists mostly through human involvement (believing, expecting or allowing) the same is true in reverse, magic doesn't exist through human intervention (disbelief, negative expectancy, not allowing). So is not if exists or not, it simply exists for some and doesn't for others.

3) Nothing changes in your life without your intervention, permission and choice consciously or unconsciously. You may be given or find tools to make changes flow easier but that is all they are, the gate spoken about, butYOU must cross it.

4) Magic objects are a fact and pseudomagic useless objects are a fact. That night exists, doesn't discard that day exists as well. To know what is what, is a matter of trial and research not of opinion.

5) Telling other your opinion is a good way to communicate, to impose it is a good way to not be heard.

6) Opinions can be divided in "guess" (who has an opinion on what he never tried), "educated opinion" (who made an opinion based on what he read somewhere or was taught) and "experience" (who made an opinion based on what he/she lived or saw in first hand). Of course then is the "parrot opinion" (who just repeats what has heard) but this doesn't count. The receiver of an opinion should be able to distinguish and to eavluate the certainty of what is hearing.

7) Nothing IS and nothing ISN't , neither in quantum mechanics nor in ancient philosophies. Things can sometimes be and sometimes not. The observer is who decides.

And a last thought already written by someone much wiser than me: "You can be fooled in two ways, you can be fooled into believe what is not, but worst of all, you can fooled into not believing what it is"

See you around , when I have the time to come here again, hopefully soon, I miss you people, all of you, the ones who make me feel understood, the ones who awake me to new ideas and the ones who while believing are battering and discrediting my opinions are nevertheless allowing me to understand the whole thing of the yingyang flow needing the existence of two poles chasing each other

Kind regards :bows:

 

[luz]

"You can be fooled in two ways, you can be fooled into believe what is not, but worst of all, you can fooled into not believing what it is"

I don't know about that... sometimes the COST of believing in something that is not true might be much steeper than the cost of not believing in it and then have it be true. And I'm not talking about money, although money can also be a part of the equation.

Believing in Toki Moai? Well, besides the hundreds of dollars a person will spend on this, what about the shattered hopes once you see all your dreams are not coming true? What about the terrible cost of doing nothing to change your life because you expect the little seals to do that for you? And the unbearable cost of finally coming to the conclusion that you CAN NOT change your life because, if toki moai (and all the great hype surrounding it - because not only here but in many places in the internet I have found testimonials such as yours about the life altering effects of this product) didn't work, then nothing will???

We all have to choose what we believe in and the costs associated with belief or disbelief are not always very clear and not as simple as somebody selling something will have you believe they are.

 

[heylise]

Trojan: My point is universal symbols, handed down through a tradition are way bigger than that, carrying alot more of non personal energy. A pebble that means something special is yours, the meaning is yours, it holds what you think it holds. A vision board is your creation, a way to help you manifest your wishes in reality. A universal symbol or mantra carries a special energy above and beyond your personal energy - for it to work for you your personal energy needs attuning to it - and this is generally done through ceremony/initiation of some kind with a teacher

Have been too busy, me too, and on top of that a big cold. I just wanted to tell Trojan that I agree with most of what she said. I think these kinds of symbols speak to a layer deep inside where you 'think' rather (maybe I should say 'are') in myths than in thoughts, words, feelings.

LiSe

 

[Trojina]

Hope you soon get well Lise I got quite alot out of this discussion, it made me reexamine all my ideas about symbols, talismans and so on.