Trigrams and Organs

[dvid]

Dear friends,


Due to a trouble on the skin that I have for many years I had thought to ask IC which could be the origin organ, following the TCM .

That's why I tried to find a relationship between 8 trigram and organs and I had a big surprise when everywhere I've searched the relationship between organs and Trigram is completely different, crazy! ,the heart associated with Tui, Kan, Li, otherwise Liver is Kun, Sun and so on.


If that exits, someone would kindly explain what is the correct relationship ?

Thank you

dvd

 

[pocossin]

Is your trouble on the skin general or localized? There are about 78 organs and only 8 trigrams, so correspondence depends on perspective. If you are following TCM, have you consulted an acupuncturist or a Chinese herbalist?

 

[dvid]

Hello Pocossin,

Well, I visited all type of medicals, classic, acupunturist, physics and so on. Nobody have a reply for me and nobody healing me totally.
Then I decided, maybe vulgarly, give indications to TCM medicals what internal organs they would must heal and I thought ask IC...

(localized in back and thigh)

Thank you

 

[pocossin]

Somebody should have given you a name: dermatitis, eczema, hives (angioneurotic edema), psoriasis, or some such. If they haven't, you might be able to identify your condition by examining pictures on the Internet. You could search for images using "skin inflammation". Your condition may not depend on a hidden organ.

http://www.webmd.boots.com/skin-problems-and-treatments/ss/slideshow-what-your-skin-says

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psoriasis

 

[sooo]

Hello, David. Wondering if you are who I think you may be..

I would look to hex 49, which represents the skin layers themselves, which I regard as an organ, and which consists of water over fire, or fire beneath the skin. This is how many skin disorders seem to be represented. My first inclination would be to suggest hydrating the skin in some manner. Drinking more water, cool baths, protecting from dryness, etc.

Is this a seasonal or periodic outbreak or is it consistent? Have you consulted the Yijing on treating this?

 

[dvid]

Hello Sooo,

Thank you for your reply, I think we don't know us, I am from Barcelona, but in any case would be an honor for me (also know Pocossin). I am a follower of your comments on Clarity. Sometimes agree and others don't but always interested.

The trouble is consistent from 7 years ago. I have consulted Yijing many times but always has been very difficult for me undertand the answers directly related with disease. Questionings about doctors, treatments more or less has seen easy to interpret but don´t about disease origin.
For these reason I decided ask directly Yijing but I don´t know like join strictly the physical with trigrams (because with hexagrams I found imposible long time ago)but I try. I asked before Yj about if I can used trigams to associate with internal organs and reply me hex 11 without lines. I thought it was more easy to search.

I will think about hex 49.

Thank you

 

[sooo]

David, feel free to disagree but 11 places heaven at earth's service, so I'd interpret 11 as saying, yes to using trigrams (and hexagrams) to associate with internal organs.

According to everything I have found online, not only is skin an organ, but it is the body's single largest organ.

The integumentary system consists of the largest organ in the body, the skin. This extraordinary organ system protects the internal structures of the body from damage, prevents dehydration, stores fat and produces vitamins and hormones. It also helps to maintain homeostasis within the body by assisting in the regulation of body temperature and water balance. The integumentary system is the body's first line of defense against bacteria, viruses and other microbes. It also helps to provide protection from harmful ultraviolet radiation. The skin is a sensory organ in that it has receptors for detecting heat and cold, touch, pressure and pain. Components of the skin include hair, nails, sweat glands, oil glands, blood vessels, lymph vessels, nerves and muscles. Concerning integumentary system anatomy, the skin is composed of a layer of epithelial tissue (epidermis) that is supported by a layer of connective tissue (dermis) and an underlying subcutaneous layer (hypodermis or subcutis).
Integumentary System: Skin Layers Overview

Epidermis - outermost layer of the skin composed of squamous cells. This layer is characterized into two distinct types: thick skin and thin skin.
Dermis - thickest layer of skin that lies beneath and supports the epidermis.
Hypodermis (Subcutis) - innermost layer of the skin that helps to insulate the body and cushion internal organs.

So I think, though I'm no medical professional, that you need look no further than skin deep for your cause, though a cure may involve nutrition and internal functions. Still, the body's own skin is complex enough to look there first. I'd bet a dermatologist would agree.

LiSe goes so far as to name her hexagram 49, skinning, and speaks of fire being in the middle of the lake, which refers to the shedding of the old and out of date to reveal what is new and regenerated.

I think this can be looked at literally as well as seeing it as metaphor.

May I ask, have you had this condition examined by a dermatologist yet?

 

[anemos]

Hi David,

My brother has a skin infection, and like you, can't find a solution. Over the many years he has to deal with, in his case the symptoms subside when his life is not stressful.I'm not suggesting that that is your case, just saying that I can understand how might be for you. Hope you can find an answer.

I see 11 as yes too. and maybe also somehow supports your plan to use TCM . I have Zero knowledge on those things but a couple of days ago, while skimming a book on emotions and how Chinese conceptualizing them I came across the following quotation

A passage from Neijing: Suwen ...


Yin and yang are the dao of sky and earth (tiandi zhidao �������&#56737, the network
of myriad things, the parents of transformation and change, the root and
the beginning of life-giving and life-taking (shengsha zhi benshi ���������&#56659,
the seat of vitality and intellegence (shenming zhi fu �������&#57001. To treat illness,
one must trace this root. Thus, accumulated yang is sky, accumulated yin
is earth. Yin is contained (jing �&#56545 and yang restless (zao �&#56621. . . . When cold
reaches an extreme, it gives rise to heat; when heat reaches an extreme, it gives
rise to cold. Cold qi generates turbid (zhuo �� hot qi generates clear (qing �&#56418.
When clear qi (which is supposed to rise) is trapped in the lower parts of the
body, it gives rise to diarrhea; when turbid qi (which is supposed to descend) is
in the upper body, it produces swelling and fullness. This is abnormal action of
yin and yang. This countermovement of yin and yang results in disorders.

I think its that book : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huangdi_Neijing . Not sure if it has the answers you are looking for, but thought to share that info with you.

 

[dvid]

Hi Soo, Hi Anemos

I am agree with you about about Hex 11. I apologize because English is not my native language and I formed the sentences inverted and the meaning seems different. One week ago I asked Yj about use
trigrams vs. organs and the answer was Hex 11, from that point I began my research.

Yesterday I was to visit one TCM doctor and I proposed her that please thought questions about my skin, she casted the coins and we interpreted together (she knew my case before but do not know almost nothing of Yj).

1ª We must treat ? Hex 21 L1,2.

Yes, but soft

2.- We must treat directly on the skin? Hex 2 L4

Receive treatment North- West. Caution.
Difficult for us understand Hex in that context..

3.- One cast more to clarify question 2. Hex 49 L2, 6

At the end she thougth that I need receive moxibustion in area N-W near skin wound.

Well, I don.t know what to think about . I see now that maybe we had have to ask one question more ¿what kind of treatment you recomended?. We look for treatments in all the answers
The interpretacion of Yj was more intuitive than technical TCM .It’s not exactly what I am looking for...

Thank you

David

 

[pocossin]

If you have been to all sorts of doctors and have gotten no relief, I recommend that you stop seeking advice, take matters into you own hands, and experiment with traditional remedies. Many skin problems cannot be cured, but the symptoms can be reduced. Have you tried such substances as iodine, glycerin, honey, lanolin, and calamine? Also, have you had this problem all your life?

 

[sooo]

Hi Soo, Hi Anemos

I am agree with you about about Hex 11. I apologize because English is not my native language and I formed the sentences inverted and the meaning seems different. One week ago I asked Yj about use
trigrams vs. organs and the answer was Hex 11, from that point I began my research.

Yesterday I was to visit one TCM doctor and I proposed her that please thought questions about my skin, she casted the coins and we interpreted together (she knew my case before but do not know almost nothing of Yj).

1ª We must treat ? Hex 21 L1,2.

Yes, but soft

2.- We must treat directly on the skin? Hex 2 L4

Receive treatment North- West. Caution.
Difficult for us understand Hex in that context..

3.- One cast more to clarify question 2. Hex 49 L2, 6

At the end she thougth that I need receive moxibustion in area N-W near skin wound.

Well, I don.t know what to think about . I see now that maybe we had have to ask one question more ¿what kind of treatment you recomended?. We look for treatments in all the answers
The interpretacion of Yj was more intuitive than technical TCM .It’s not exactly what I am looking for...

Thank you

David

I interpret as follows.

21.1,2 - 64 would say, yes, to look at what causes this condition, before the outbreak. This, like 49, is fire and water, but here water is below fire, or to look at the moisture beneath the skin.

2.4 represents containment in a bag, which the skin is, a bag which holds the rest of our body. The relating gua to this is 16, which would say that this bag, your skin, is aroused or irritated. I view a local or topical treatment such as a type of ointment. I'd first try an anti-fungal ointment. but this is something that could require specialized care, such as those mentioned by Tom (pocossin). A dermatologist should easily diagnose specifically which topical cause and treatment you're dealing with.

Confirmed by 49 (surprise!) lines 2 and 6, which is fire below water; again irritation of skin from beneath the skin. Lines 2 and 6 changes to hex 1, the Creative force or great force which causes this condition from within the skin. I'd consider a seasonal allergic reaction, such as sun, or even poison ivy or oak, sumac, hives, shingles, eczema, etc. Again, these are conditions which a dermatologist should easily be able to diagnose. From the readings, I do not see a serious condition, but one which acts with great force upon your skin, especially during particular seasons and/or conditions, such as dry, hot or cold seasons and conditions.