Troubled Relationships with Parents: 3 Readings, 3 choices: 47.1>58 23.1>27 and 14>3>38 I welcome your experience!

[mythos]

I grew up in a difficult and poor family. I was often the target and blamed for the failures of my family while bearing excess responsibility. I was ridiculed, neglected, gaslit and shamed. This continued into adulthood. I grew up with both parents estranged from each of their own respective families. They had no friends and no community and were often presenting themselves as better while oversharing their traumas with us. I did not want to do what they had done to their own families and cut them off. In many ways, I believed that their choice to isolate had led them to become bitter and gnarled by rage. I didn't want that to be my own fate. It also felt deeply unkind to their respective families.

Well, many years passed. I spent my time with many narcissists happy to please demanding people. I married one. While superficially not like my parents, he was critical, gaslighting, aggressive, guilt tripping and blaming while often playing victim.

During this time my mother reappeared after I'd not heard from her for some time. She was determined to be a great grandmother and my siblings had moved countries and no longer had spare rooms. Soon, I was divorcing my reasonably well off narc. My mom was all in. We lived together she giving me advice, criticising my past choices. My life somehow became marginalised between my mother and husband in battle. She would explode at me over small things guilting me over all the help that she was giving. Then she'd be insanely friendly.

To make a long story short, I took my child to visit my parents this summer (my mom having left my house a few months previous) first spending time with a friend and her children in a social setting. I randomly met people who knew my mom's estranged family and offered up my interest in meeting them. I did and it felt good.

Then my child snd I visited my parents. At first my mom appeared fine with the visit wuth her estranged family. And then, a couple of days before we left, she exploded on me. My dad joined in. I was cold, unempathetic, ungrateful, an idiot, who'd married someone for money, who had no good qualities apart from a chance for my mom to show what a hero she was, saving me. It was a savage, non stop attack. If I looked the wrong way I was attacked. She said her estranged family would take no interest in me, they have their own lives etc. My history, childhood and babyhood were brought into question. I was a difficult baby, eho was I? I wept. Still my father continued berating me while my mother eavesdropped. The next day I caught her trying to break into my phone. She said she was sorry I'd thought she was cruel and that she does love me.

When we left, I was heartbroken and devastated. She didn't write for weeks. I listened to videos about scapegoated children and children of narcissism. I got a therapist. In the description of scapegoat I saw my entire life and I realised that these people, my family, are making a choice to behave as they do, it's not one I believe is right. They have fed on my compassion for them, getting away with shocking behavior. For the first time in my life I saw their behaviour objectively. I imagined saying any of the things they said to me, to them or to Mt child. Or to anyone. I was horrified. These were words to erase a person.

My mother's estranged family did write and send photos. Whatever my mom's estranged family have done, they have a large extended family and their children and they look happy and pleased to be a family. They're all together.

I contrast this to my own family where I've never had a good word about me said to another member of family, where we gossip and bitch to stay relevant and my parents pit us off against each other for sport. My siblings and I haven't shared a space for decades, let alone a photo where we're smiling and full of vitality. We all have grievances and fears about what's been said and uncertain what we might have to defend ourselves against.

My child tonight told me that grand daddy doesn't like me and thinks I'm an idiot. This was a final straw. He had overheard when I thought he was sleeping. I realise that I'm not them and their estrangement weren't the cause of their attitudes, their attitudes are the cause of the estrangement. I realised that as long as I try and contort myself to communicate with them, it is as the defective being that they seek to project. And finally, my child heard those words and their image of me is not a me that I know and nor do i want my child to know.

So I finally asked the Iching:

1. Should I go low contact? 47.1 > 58

The background to the situation (58) is interaction and discussion or conversation. But here instead of conviality and being my self, I am confined to a lonely dark tree stump for a long time. In essence this is how I feel inside in my communication with them because no matter how hard I try they mirror at me that I'm defective, deficient, in need of help and lonely and dark. However, communication with people who see me, I am free to be joyful and convivial. These worlds don't coexist in my family of origin.

2. Should I carry on as is? 23.1 > 27

The iching is asking how I choose to nourish myself. And that to continue on is to allow a great evil to strip me of my strength.

3. Should I go no contact? 14.3 > 38

I read the background as describing the mutual alienation. But 14.3 says, indeed that to estrange carries with it a choice to be petty and to blame. Or to become fully in service to the superior ideals of community, generosity, benevolence. And it is there that true wealth exists.

Thoughts?

Thank you for your time in reading. Good night and blessings to you!

 

[Liselle]

What a horrible mess, Mythos. I'm sorry to hear this.

47.1
'Buttocks oppressed with a wooden stick,
Entering into a gloomy valley,
For three years, meeting no-one.'

23.1
'Stripping away the bed, by way of its supports.
To discard constancy: pitfall.'

14.3
'A prince makes an offering [heng] to the son of heaven.
Small people are in no way capable of this.'

I'm reading all of the questions as "What if I...," since Yi doesn't have lines for yes and no, per se.

I think (2) can be ruled out. If you carry on as-is, your resting place will be stripped of its supports. ("Nourishment" as what supports you, probably.) That doesn't sound good at all.

(1) - "low contact" will mean gloom and oppression for a moderately long period of time. That also sounds like something to avoid. But - and the more I think about this the more I like it - maybe another way to read it is that the beginning of the line describes what this has been like, and then concludes with advice - see no one, have no contact at all, for a fairly long but not permanent period of time.

I especially think that makes sense since it was your first question, and Yi managed to answer everything at once like an umbrella answer. It often does that - the first question is usually the most important. It's often good to start with an umbrella question, actually. "Advice about this?," "How should I handle this?" or something. I think that's what you got anyway.

I think (3) adds the information that you can indeed "afford" to do this (have no contact for quite a while). That implies you might feel like you can't afford to, but Yi's saying you can and it's a good idea. Offer it up to heaven - trying to fix it on earth won't work; the opposition is too strong. (Note that "afford" in 14.3 often has nothing to do with money, it's s different sense of afford.)

 

[IrfanK]

1. Should I go low contact? 47.1 > 58

The background to the situation (58) is interaction and discussion or conversation. But here instead of conviality and being my self, I am confined to a lonely dark tree stump for a long time. In essence this is how I feel inside in my communication with them because no matter how hard I try they mirror at me that I'm defective, deficient, in need of help and lonely and dark. However, communication with people who see me, I am free to be joyful and convivial. These worlds don't coexist in my family of origin.

The thing with 47.1 -- and many of the other lines in 47 -- is that there is some suggestion that it's a self-inflicted injury. My translation says:

One sits oppressed under a bare tree and strays into a gloomy valley ...

It's not a matter of "I am confined" by some irresistible external forces, with you having no say in the matter. Even though it may very much feel like that. One does choose where one sits, so why are you sitting under the bare tree? And the straying into a gloomy valley ... well, again, it was your choice.

These hints that the injury is self-inflicted become quite explicit in line 6:

He is oppressed by creeping vines. He moves uncertainly and says "Movement brings remorse." If one feels remorse over this and makes a start, good fortune comes.

I always take that to mean that if you shake off the idea that you are stuck in a situation and "make a start," you will realize that you do have more power over the situation than you realize. At the same time, these self-imposed chains are not shaken off lightly or easily. Keeping a family at a distance is a painful thing to do -- ask me how I know! -- and it involves all sorts of difficult examinations of transparent beliefs and values about family, social expectations, personal values, and so on. Yes, it could well take "three years" -- or at any rate, quite a long period of personal work -- to get to the stage where you can do it.

 

[mythos]

Thank you both for your thoughtful replies. I'm just getting a chance to reply, now.

Yes, Liselle, I asked "What if..."

That's an interesting point about the first question being a picture of the overall situation.

I believe that I began with the question of continuing on as is. As is, though, it preoccupies and has preoccupied me much of my life. My mother presents herself almost pitifully but can be scathing, ferocious, sabotaging. If called out, she retreats to statements about her physical pain. Then sends my siblings or father after me who berate me for my audacity to upset her. Then she writes a loving and warm message thats generally supportive. Objectively, it's a bleak way to treat anyone. I can see why it would strip me were I to continue in this indecisive way.

And I see then how limited contact becomes 47.1. That to go low contact is to carry around the weight of what would continue to be a self inflicted injury as you say, IrfanK. I agree that to put family at a distance is extremely painful and requiring so much examination of beliefs, values. I'm sorry that youve been/go through it, IrfanK. Good to know, on the upside that we share this experience, that we aren't 'alone'.

To elaborate on your interpretation, it seems to suggest that I allow myself to stay in the dumbest of positions, in a gloomy valley, moping. And frankly, that's about right. In communication with them, I've not succeeded in being accepted as myself. The relationship requires that I oblige them and present myself as gloomy, as miserable and dejected. Then they can help and whether they help or not, always chastise my foolish choices. Happiness and celebration gains no traction and seems punishable. Ive certainly made enormous efforts and have never succeeded. The gloomy valley is accurate.

I like that you point out that 47.1 is for a long but limited time, Liselle. At some point, I choose to exit the gloomy valley. Its interesting that that could be now but if I continue on with low contact, it will also probably happen in another "long time".

14.3 Liselle, I like "Offer it up to heaven - trying to fix it on earth won't work; the opposition is too strong." This almost feels like the messaging in 12 steps. I can't control them or the situation, I never have been able to. To be a healthy break, the focus can't be a focus on my parents, it can be on community and on generosity and on Heaven (Higher Power). In 12 steps, I place my trust in my higher power. My Higher Power replaces the punishing parental figures who have sought to claim God like power. My experience is of reconstructing God, my Higher Power as benevolent, generous and kind.

Next steps:

My mom wrote. She was warm and friendly and loving. But I'd not heard from her for weeks and last I saw her, the scene described above transpired. My sibling and partner were visiting and I find it likely she spoke derogatory words about me. None of the siblings speak. We all fear what's been said and the judgements against us that we know about make each of us defensive.

But my mom wrote as though nothing happened. It's infuriating and confounding.

I asked the Iching "How to answer her" and I received 40.4.5 > 29

40 talks of pardoning criminals and dealing with crimes gently.

Line 4 talks of "Wing: There are people who attach themselves to you for reasons of their own. This is a parasitic relationship, which may become habitual. You should liberate yourself from this kind of entanglement, since it repels others who might be valuable allies in your endeavors."

Line 5: Wing: In order to eliminate an inferior habit or situation you must first make an inner resolve to overcome it. Only you can save yourself. Once you are liberated, inferior elements will retreat into the background and you will win the respect you deserve. Good fortune.

It seems to clearly say not to dwell on the crime nor the criminal, forgive and forget but remove the attachment and once I remove the inner attachment, the external attachments will fall away of their own. On a practical level, this may mean writing a perfunctory reply which allows for 29.

I've read a lot on Online Clarity about 29 being something I've just got to go through, through its full of defiles and raging water. 29 has often felt like a current of raw unprocessed deep pure emotion. What's powerful about it is its purity and intensity and of course that's dangerous because its all real. I read this as "my emotional truth is a powerful flow and it rushes through me purifying and clearing out the toxic detritus of parasitic relationships, inferior habits and situations"

Thoughts?

Thank you for both of your posts Liselle and IfranK. It was a joy to open up Online Clarity and see your responses.

Enjoy your day wherever you are!

 

[mythos]

Update: I decided to do what felt right: To not reply. When they called for my child's birthday, I answered and had a brief call. I gave him a gift 'from them'. I felt a little miserable in the evening.

The reality is that my family live across an ocean.

The reading 40.4.5 is indeed the path out: Forgive and pardon because then it releases those particular bindings. And free myself of the useless dependency. The dependency are those creepers... 47.1, the vines that though, external to me, though phantoms remain powerful and restrictive. It's a matter of knowing they are gone, and finally making a start, like in 47.6. The start is something new altogether. Then 14.3 becomes possible.

Thanks all!

 

[rosada]

Just some added thoughts. Pretty much what has already been said..

47.1 - 58 here reads to me as a description of a kid whose been sent to their room and now he's waiting until he thinks it's okay to come out and resume contact - 58. So in other words to only delay or minimize contact won't break the old pattern where you are humiliated, sent away and at the mercy of when Mom reaches out again. So no, don't think in terms of just giving them a bit of "the silent treatment" because then you'll still be feeling bound to them, waiting on their approval and nothing changes.

23.1 - 27 Carrying on as this way is unsustainable, like trying to build on something that has no support, trying to warm your family by burning your own bed.

14.3 Offering it to heaven.
Stop all contact but more than just stopping, actively pray for the light to find them and do affirmations that you know you are whole and healed. Don't try to just suck it up.

40.5.6 - 29 . I see 29 here as emphasizing how forgiveness does not necessarily happen in one gesture.
29. Describes going through rough waters again and again until as we see in the Image that finally after many attempts the man masters the fear, calms the waters and continues on his path. So in answering her recognize you cannot change the relationship with one conversation - So I think you got the new regime off to a good start by keeping this last contact brief and focused but you have to continue to limit your conversations in this way and then you may eventually come to feel you can navigate this relationship appropreately.

 

[mythos]

Just some added thoughts. Pretty much what has already been said..

47.1 - 58 here reads to me as a description of a kid whose been sent to their room and now he's waiting until he thinks it's okay to come out and resume contact - 58. So in other words to only delay or minimize contact won't break the old pattern where you are humiliated, sent away and at the mercy of when Mom reaches out again. So no, don't think in terms of just giving them a bit of "the silent treatment" because then you'll still be feeling bound to them, waiting on their approval and nothing changes.

23.1 - 27 Carrying on as this way is unsustainable, like trying to build on something that has no support, trying to warm your family by burning your own bed.

14.3 Offering it to heaven.
Stop all contact but more than just stopping, actively pray for the light to find them and do affirmations that you know you are whole and healed. Don't try to just suck it up.

40.5.6 - 29 . I see 29 here as emphasizing how forgiveness does not necessarily happen in one gesture.
29. Describes going through rough waters again and again until as we see in the Image that finally after many attempts the man masters the fear, calms the waters and continues on his path. So in answering her recognize you cannot change the relationship with one conversation - So I think you got the new regime off to a good start by keeping this last contact brief and focused but you have to continue to limit your conversations in this way and then you may eventually come to feel you can navigate this relationship appropreately.

Thanks Rosasa, your reading is accurate in practical terms.

While she visited I mentioned continuing on with my studies this year. Because I'm paying solicitor fees and full time parenting while divorcing I'm low on money. My home country has lower fees and my mom offered to loan me the money for fees. This was before the attack regarding her estranged family. During that she asked how I planned to pay for my course. I said she'd offered. She denied this and then she and my father looked at me with disgust and said I had real audacity to start a fight and then ask for money.
Well, I'm on the course and I have to pay for it. My mother knows this but hasn't mentioned it. Nor has she mentioned the important paperwork that arrived with them that I've been emailed about.
This is to say that the relationship forces a 47.1. If I rely on them, I don't look elsewhere for community. Because their supports are conditional and all games, I'm forced to gloomily sit under the tree.

 

[mythos]

I accidentally posted too early.

Anyway, so your reading interpretation was already playing out. The danger with 47.1 is that I'll always prefer the idea of a warm relationship and desire to overlook the nasty games. This will always place me in the valley of gloom because my parents are not unconditionally loving. My mother wants control and my father wants my mother to be sated so she won't prey on him. Neither could possibly ever be trusted.

Knowing that neither can be trusted but maintaining low contact will always put me in harms way.

14.3 is courageous. I'll take your advice and pray for the light to find them while actively appreciating my own wholeness in the light.

Thank you for the sage words. It's 29 whatever I do to some extent. It's been a long time in 29 though... I welcome stable ground and if 14.3 is it, great!

 

[rosada]

One of the great benefits of studying the I Ching is the "click" you feel when the question and the lines come together and you see an answer. That feeling is great fun and becomes totally addictive and thus as you study the IC you may find you become more and more desirous of peace and less tolerant of drama if only so you can keep your brain in the right place to solve the I Ching riddles and feel that great click. So the more you study the I Ching the more you don't want to get pulled into drama (which probably makes you even more intensely aware of how addicted to drama your parents are and your own vulnerability to getting sucked in like a co-dependant if you spend any time with them!)

Anyway, I'm just suggesting that studying the I Ching exercises your ability to detach from their emotional confusion and rise to a calmer higher viewpoint. As you focus on the I Ching you become less and less magnetize to your parents' drama because you will no longer be on the same emotional wave length playing the blame-and-shame game. You are vibrating to a different tempo now and have access to wider perspectives!

Best wishes,
Rosada

 

[mythos]

I value my experience with the Iching and have finally learned how to work with it in a way that calms, clarifies and directs.

But, I was introduced to it by my parents and much of their life of strange upheaval was due to their interpretation of readings, for a long time. Working with it can calm them, add a wise friend to the environment these days.

I've come to find readings incredibly accurate but more often the reading is in tune with my focus and environment. It can alert me to the, as yet, unseen. I've found it a very wise guide.

I will say that after I connected to my estranged extended family, and my parents went on the attack, I got a therapist. I asked the iching, I posted here and I posted on reddit to a like minded forum. I received wider perspectives.

Here I received brilliant insight and the 47.1 was what my therapist also found interesting and focused on. His view of the vines, the gloom, was similar to yours. The 3 readings are a defining juncture but so too is the broadening of perspective by sharing them here on the forum, receiving the wise interpretations of each of you. Which I feel is the beginning of 14.3

As if, by getting the reading itself, it guided me to the forum and in turn, the forum has added me in opening up the deeper insights and feelings within me so they have power to act. Of course, one step at a time. Its a process.