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From my POV I'm not looking to follow anyone's experience, I merely want to hear it, hear how it was subjectively for them whether their experience was 'positive' or 'negative', and we know how misleading those terms can be since the worst experience can often bring about the most positive change and so on. I expect that there would be very different experiences naturally. I do not experience unchanging hexagram only one way and don't imagine anyone else does.....but a collection of experiences of the unchanging hexagrams as experienced subjectively I feel would be helpful .Dear Trojan,
I do agree with you to start another thread. My question will be: shall we follow the good experiences here, or the bad experiences? how shall we do if our defining hex sometimes turns out to be positive and sometimes negative?……. Additionally I would like to ask: who shall guide us to a right hexagram or line to our question? ……..shall we take the meaning best suited to our wish by wondering the text or the images occurring to us? … …….what is the attitude we should have when we receive advice? or, shall we take divination just to find out what is the inside and outside of ourselves?
I want to stress here: I do believe the existence of the secret power thanks to two experiences with the so-called spirit and my study of Ba Zi, but I don’t have it. Therefore I count on the I Ching when I divine, and the philosophy of Chinese numerology.
To make me more clear in respect to divination by the I Ching. The hexagram is just a set of symbols. Zhou Yi provides each hexagram with a name and texts. Ten Wings is the one which defines Yin, Yang, heaven, earth, wind, thunder, and ….. according to the study of Zhou Yi, and converts the natural phenomenon into the appropriate human behaviors at each hexagram. I am trying to seek the true significance of the I Ching. No matter whether it is called a purely academic study or only a concept, I take it as a basis and trust it. AS to whether I take action, it is up to me.
If one has a chance to read the inscription on the tortoise’s shell, one might find a question of which late king I irritated and makes me toothache, and the answer (by its crack and by the diviner’s paraphrase): your grandfather. I don’t have that magic power.
3) I have no objection to share one’s experiences with others. Theoretically speaking, a concept must be proved by experiments. However, in my opinion, how could we assure the hexagram or the line obtained by divination is for our question? Therefore sometimes we are confused by the unrelated hexagram or line to our question. The main argument on hex 11 UN is: according to the text, it is a positive hexagram but the experiences show different. I do agree that it can be taken as an upside-down world from its images, i.e. a negative sign to someone. But in case next day it turns out to be positive as the text says. What is our reference point? BTW I do agree some hexagrams UN do not indicate it good or bad, by collecting the experiences from others can make it clearer.
It sounds as though you think it's possible to get an inaccurate answer because you cast the wrong hexagram/line. The right hexagram to have cast would have been 39, say, but somehow the person casts 11 instead. (And clearly that would make her experience with that reading quite irrelevant to Hexagram 11, because she should never have cast it.)Therefore accuracy (how to reach a right hexagram or line to the question while divining) is an issue to me.
It is not as if anyone on the hexagram 11 unchanging thread made up alot of stuff about hexagram 11 out of thin air. I think everyone who wrote there are pretty well familiar with the translations of the text of hexgram 11. What makes you think they aren't ?But in another way I agree completely in that if you're going to use these systems and these texts it pays to give them enough respect to listen to them first AS THEY ARE. If you're going to have your own ideas about something without even listening to anything else, even if that other thing outright disagrees completely, why even use the I Ching? Just like how the Chinese likely first saw the lines AS THEY ARE before adding subjective ideas and systems to them. To see the subjective you must first look at the objective.
So basically, I agree with everyone in this thread all at the same time...
Though it wasn't completely clear, I wasn't specifically talking about that thread. I've been lurking those threads and I like them a lot. I was more on your side, as you could see from what I wrote, trojan. I just think part of what tuck's saying is right. I won't use any real examples so as to not hurt anyone's feelings, but sometimes in Shared Readings I'll see questions like (and this is clearly an exaggeration) "Should I stay in this tumultuous relationship? I received 33 unchanging, that means yes right? I mean, it does say 'success'.". I mean, I don't see it often, but it does happen and it's a bit obvious that the querent is only reading into it as much as it will satisfy the opinion they already hold. So that part of tuck's concern is certainly founded.It is not as if anyone on the hexagram 11 unchanging thread made up alot of stuff about hexagram 11 out of thin air. I think everyone who wrote there are pretty well familiar with the translations of the text of hexgram 11. What makes you think they aren't ?
Well the thread was about people's experiences of 11uc and Tuck seemed to want to discuss the validity of that. That's fair enough it just needs a separate thread as he agreed since it seemed like a discussion that could get quite lengthy....and it has. ( ETA I agree Tuck did not mean offence, there was a small misunderstanding on that 11 thread which was cleared up.)And I don't even think tuck's that far away from everyone else's ideas, he just not to disregard the blunt answer the I Ching gives you IN FAVOR of your own subjective idea, but maybe mesh the two (which nobody in the thread was doing wrong, again, don't get me wrong). As far as I can gather. I don't see why everyone was so defensive in these threads, it seems like they were projecting this offensive stance onto tuck's words that just weren't there. He just has a "conservative" stance on the I Ching and was saying how he incorporates that into 11... which is what the thread was about.
I wasn't specifically talking about that thread. I've been lurking those threads and I like them a lot.
Short answer: no-one can assure you. How could they? We have had members here who would maintain that the answer you receive is no more relevant or 'right' for you than any of the other 4,095 possible answers.Tuck said:The point is who can assure me that the obtained case is right to me when I got it?
Hi Tuck,I really don’t like that people treat the so-called academic study or approach of the I Ching as an alien or call it conservative. What is wrong with analyses on a hexagram and its texts from the principle of hexagram, from the times of the writer, from the background of related culture, from Ten Wings, and … in order to find its original or true significance from the so-called Confucian perspective? especially and most likely those even don’t know what content it is.
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