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Tuck's Offshoot Thread from Unchanging Castings Threads

Trojina

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Here's a new thread for Tuck's questions which were originally posted in the Unchanging Castings Hexagram 11 thread. Tuck agreed seems a good idea to have a thread for questions raised on those threads.


Tuck said


Dear Trojan,

I do agree with you to start another thread. My question will be: shall we follow the good experiences here, or the bad experiences? how shall we do if our defining hex sometimes turns out to be positive and sometimes negative?……. Additionally I would like to ask: who shall guide us to a right hexagram or line to our question? ……..shall we take the meaning best suited to our wish by wondering the text or the images occurring to us? … …….what is the attitude we should have when we receive advice? or, shall we take divination just to find out what is the inside and outside of ourselves?
From my POV I'm not looking to follow anyone's experience, I merely want to hear it, hear how it was subjectively for them whether their experience was 'positive' or 'negative', and we know how misleading those terms can be since the worst experience can often bring about the most positive change and so on. I expect that there would be very different experiences naturally. I do not experience unchanging hexagram only one way and don't imagine anyone else does.....but a collection of experiences of the unchanging hexagrams as experienced subjectively I feel would be helpful .




If anyone finds the idea of these threads really questionable, unhelpful or pointless or whatever you think here is a special thread just to debate that ...I've just used your post Tuck to start it :)

BTW the issue of looking for consensus has arisen but thats not the point of the threads IMO since I expected there to be many different views. If many have similar expereinces of course connections can be made as would happen in any discussion on any hexagram or line we have ever discussed on the forum.





I want to stress here: I do believe the existence of the secret power thanks to two experiences with the so-called spirit and my study of Ba Zi, but I don’t have it. Therefore I count on the I Ching when I divine, and the philosophy of Chinese numerology.

Yup I'm firmly in the Yi as 'spiritual' camp and don't understand at all why anyone would want to 'secularise' it as discussed in the de mythologising thread....anyway not so interested in discussing that. I don't mind what people think Yi is really, it doesn't matter to me.





To make me more clear in respect to divination by the I Ching. The hexagram is just a set of symbols. Zhou Yi provides each hexagram with a name and texts. Ten Wings is the one which defines Yin, Yang, heaven, earth, wind, thunder, and ….. according to the study of Zhou Yi, and converts the natural phenomenon into the appropriate human behaviors at each hexagram. I am trying to seek the true significance of the I Ching. No matter whether it is called a purely academic study or only a concept, I take it as a basis and trust it. AS to whether I take action, it is up to me.
If one has a chance to read the inscription on the tortoise’s shell, one might find a question of which late king I irritated and makes me toothache, and the answer (by its crack and by the diviner’s paraphrase): your grandfather. I don’t have that magic power.

Best regards
Tuck

I think everyone has 'magic power', I think every human being certainly has a 'magic tortoise' and I think there is still so much more to know academically and experientially about Yi it is good to continue exploring all of the ways possible. One of these ways is for people to be able to relate their subjective experiences of unchanging castings for example.

If someone starts to lecture me now about what the I Ching actually is, after I have been consulting it since 1977, I'm not really going to be taking their word for it. I have my own ideas and I think it is a very living oracle.


There are many threads to say for example hexagram 12 is like this or like that....and many threads to discuss issues such as you have raised, but it seemed a good idea of Arabellas to have a set of threads more or less centred around experiences of unchanging castings.....hence continuing with it. I am still saying it is like this or like that since experience and ideas cannot be separated anyway. But as you agreed your thoughts here do deserve a separate thread so you have the space to discuss the points you raised and other things.


The unchanging castings threads may be dead in the water anyway but I thought i'd make a new thread as we discussed :bows:
 

tuckchang

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I think the main differences between me and Trojan (from my understanding of Your Experiences with Unchanging Castings - Hexagram 11 ) are:

1) I have a comparatively clear definition of each hexagram and its lines based on the text and my understanding form the principle of the hexagram, the commentaries of Ten Wings, as well as some analyses and deductions. Therefore accuracy (how to reach a right hexagram or line to the question while divining) is an issue to me. I don’t have the so-called magic power but count on the I Ching.

2) The philosophy of most of diviners in my country is a) to reach accuracy by means of religion or spirit, b) to have a fixed and clear reading method (in order to aim to one hexagram or line), c) to paraphrase according to their understanding (already understood) of the hexagram or line, d) to avoid subjective thinking, and e) to provide advice for action, or the outcome of a will-be event, or …...

3) I have no objection to share one’s experiences with others. Theoretically speaking, a concept must be proved by experiments. However, in my opinion, how could we assure the hexagram or the line obtained by divination is for our question? Therefore sometimes we are confused by the unrelated hexagram or line to our question. The main argument on hex 11 UN is: according to the text, it is a positive hexagram but the experiences show different. I do agree that it can be taken as an upside-down world from its images, i.e. a negative sign to someone. But in case next day it turns out to be positive as the text says. What is our reference point? BTW I do agree some hexagrams UN do not indicate it good or bad, by collecting the experiences from others can make it clearer.

Last but not least, people can have different thoughts of Yi, or opinions about divination, or experiences, or …., I never dare to say that others are wrong or teach them; I only tell what my opinion is, and share with others. I have no intent to argue; everyone can believe what he believes in.

Welcome your opinion.

Regards
Tuck :bows:
www.iching123.com
 

meng

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Something I've grown increasingly skeptical of is a one-size-fits all interpretation of someone's reading, but I completely agree with what Tuck said earlier: the Yi is still, we do the divination. There needs to be an unmoving, a reference point, the same way in (currently standard) tuning an instrument: 440Hz=A. It's set in cement as a reference point, but no one I know believes it means anything other than that. However, Austria wanted to lower the pitch to 435Hz, sometime around 1885. So it is not but halfway objective; subjectivity should not be sterilized out of the interpretation, since the reading is intended to be personal, not generally answered by a consensus of comparative strangers on the internet. Please, I'm not saying that it's wrong, only that usually we are shooting at fish, and often the clay water pot is cracked, leaking, or flat-out broken in the process.

My experience with unchanging hexagrams is that they dance where they are. The two trigrams are dancing, distancing, coming together. Wonderful!
 
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anemos

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3) I have no objection to share one’s experiences with others. Theoretically speaking, a concept must be proved by experiments. However, in my opinion, how could we assure the hexagram or the line obtained by divination is for our question? Therefore sometimes we are confused by the unrelated hexagram or line to our question. The main argument on hex 11 UN is: according to the text, it is a positive hexagram but the experiences show different. I do agree that it can be taken as an upside-down world from its images, i.e. a negative sign to someone. But in case next day it turns out to be positive as the text says. What is our reference point? BTW I do agree some hexagrams UN do not indicate it good or bad, by collecting the experiences from others can make it clearer.


www.iching123.com

sorry for the slightly Off Topic image but couldn't resist :blush:

 
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hilary

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As far as I can tell, readings are a way to learn about experience, and experience is a way to learn about readings.

Tuck, something you said here and on the other thread caught my eye -
Therefore accuracy (how to reach a right hexagram or line to the question while divining) is an issue to me.
It sounds as though you think it's possible to get an inaccurate answer because you cast the wrong hexagram/line. The right hexagram to have cast would have been 39, say, but somehow the person casts 11 instead. (And clearly that would make her experience with that reading quite irrelevant to Hexagram 11, because she should never have cast it.)

Is that what you meant? If so, how could that happen?
 

tuckchang

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Hi Hilary,

I know what you meant but I put it in a different way:
By probability, I might cast any of 64 hexagrams and 386 lines.
By 3 coins, I cast 11 UN.
By 11 UN, I make a decision to put all my savings on an intended investment, too serious but just emphasizing what the accuracy means to me.

If I cast 39 UN but it is proved later that 11 UN is the right hexagram to me, it is not only a wrong cast but also a bad luck.
If I did make that investment according to 11 UN, it is belief in (accuracy, or ….), or……, or the fate.
If I didn’t make that investment according to 11 UN, it is the so-called attitude, and one of the attitudes.

My answer to your question: I don’t know what case I will get but sometimes I do wish which answer it is. The point is who can assure me that the obtained case is right to me when I got it?

Fate, luck, … and divination are very difficult issues to understand or catch; people make the rule and many different rules, believe what they believe in, and do what they think is right to them. Item 2 regarding the aspects in respect to divination (I forgave putting f: to check the birthday chart if a long term effect is concerned) is not only a subject of philosophy, regardless of whether they are right or wrong, good or bad, but also a subject of doing it as accurate as possible since people will pay USD 10 ~20 for one divination, and USD 100 ~ 150 for checking the birthday chart. :)

BTW and to me, 11 UN is a positive sign (remarks: if the question is whether the tumor will spread, it might be another story) but an ongoing state. As to 39 UN, its name means difficulties, but its text also tells an opportunity to attain a great achievement.

Regards
Tuck :bows:
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mryou1

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People are talking about an objective standard around which subjective interpretations can rest. A reference point. Well it's right there, it's the lines themselves. Remove the book, the King Wen judgments, the lines, the Confucian texts. Then remove all ideas of trigrams. Then remove association of yang with unbroken and yin with broken. Then you're left with nothing but a process whereby you get six lines that could possibly change into other lines. This is the core. Now how do you derive meaning from this?, well that's why there have been a lot of processes piled on this foundation. Let's look at 11:

First you add the yang/yin interpretations: so the 3 yang lines rise up to meet the 3 yin lines sinking. They connect.

Then you add the trigram meanings: Heaven rises to meet Earth, and this is commonly known as a beneficial state whereby there is production.

Then from this we've gotten the name: Compenetration, Peace, etc. the basic idea, and on this all the texts are formed.

And with 39:

Add the yin/yang meanings: Ok, no strong ideas conveyed there, moving onto trigrams:

Trigrams: Mountains and Water. Mountains behind you, blocking movement backward, and Water ahead, where you're forced to go. Or maybe even Water pouring down the Mountain via Waterfall, another dangerous path. So then we get the main name:

Limping, Obstruction, etc.

Hell, let's go even further and look at King Wen's text and see where all these things might have come from, for 39 (I'll use the Wilhelm/Baynes translation):

The southwest furthers.
Around this time the Universal Compass was produced, and in that southwest corresponds to the Earth trigram, which is not present because of too much crowding of yang in this hexagram. Maybe the idea is to get out of this hexagram, making line changes from unbroken to broken beneficial. Makes sense.

The northeast does not further.
Corresponds to Mountain, which is not beneficial in this hexagram. Stopping in front of the danger of Water, how can that be helpful?

It furthers one to see the great man.
Now we get into the idea that each line has a different character, and also that certain different lines are governing and in this case the fifth line is most likely the king, the prince, the great man, etc. So again, venture into the dangerous Water, which the great man is right in the middle of.

ALL THIS IS A LONG WAY TO SAY: If you want to get to the core of what the I Ching is you don't go back to the text, you go back to what the text is based on, which is just a group of lines. A lot of people talk about the text like it just came from nowhere (honestly I think some text is just advice and information on the "overall meaning", not based strictly on lines and trigrams, but I digress), but it all goes back to the lines and SUBJECTIVE ideas based on those lines. Now, I think the system the Chinese produced is incredible, and possibly a spiritual/magical way of finding order out of the chaos of chance. And certainly, not even for divination, the text is filled with advice and powerful information.

But if you're trying to find a solid objective point it's not the text, because you're not opening a book at random here (that's why I have problems with people who call the I Ching bibliomancy), you're casting 6 changing lines. And there's virtually no objective meaning to gain from that without subjective systems. So maybe all this is to say, I disagree with tuck, and that the I Ching is at its core subjective and has no definitive point of objective to subjective meaning. But in another way I agree completely in that if you're going to use these systems and these texts it pays to give them enough respect to listen to them first AS THEY ARE. If you're going to have your own ideas about something without even listening to anything else, even if that other thing outright disagrees completely, why even use the I Ching? Just like how the Chinese likely first saw the lines AS THEY ARE before adding subjective ideas and systems to them. To see the subjective you must first look at the objective.

So basically, I agree with everyone in this thread all at the same time...
 

Trojina

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But in another way I agree completely in that if you're going to use these systems and these texts it pays to give them enough respect to listen to them first AS THEY ARE. If you're going to have your own ideas about something without even listening to anything else, even if that other thing outright disagrees completely, why even use the I Ching? Just like how the Chinese likely first saw the lines AS THEY ARE before adding subjective ideas and systems to them. To see the subjective you must first look at the objective.

So basically, I agree with everyone in this thread all at the same time...
It is not as if anyone on the hexagram 11 unchanging thread made up alot of stuff about hexagram 11 out of thin air. I think everyone who wrote there are pretty well familiar with the translations of the text of hexgram 11. What makes you think they aren't ?


People were simply asked if they had any experiences of hexgram 11 to share...and they did. And it seemed hexagram 11 uc for them doesn't always manifest itself in what we would think of as good fortune. Flow is flow and we might experience that strong movement either way....it moves....and...sometimes in life flowing it's not always a gentle ride etc etc. That really does not go against any objective standard meaning of hexagram 11.



What I find peculiar is that in people giving their subjective experience of what they think happened when they had received hexagram 11 to their question is that other people say "no it's not like that because it's not what I believe the text of the I ching says" . :confused: Tuck seemingly has never cast hexagram 11 uc or known of anyone is his personal experience who has (?) but feels life itself as experienced by Yi Jing querants, needs must adhere to what hexagram 11, as he understands it, as it is meant in texts less than perfectly translated from ancient chinese, means.

However as yet there is no perfect translation as far as I know to even set as ultimate 'standard' . Even the best Yi scholars and writers admit some ambiguity over the meaning of characters and so on and how they are parsed makes a difference in meaning and so on. I think there is a great big gaping gap to be filled between lived experience and words on the page....and it's exciting learning in that gap.

The underlined in the above quote seems to suggest it may be problematic to report subjective experience of a hexagram unless it is based on and closely adheres to some fixed accepted meaning...such as Wilhelm. But the thing is life is messier than text and won't fit between the lines. The Yi is also is much bigger than the text and won't fit between the lines. Therefore we have to find the meanings of the Yi somewhere much bigger than the words on the page.....whilst of course yes taking those words with us 'out there' in the world, which is where Yi also is. Yi doesn't just live in between the book covers.

I'm suprised that people just giving their experiences is seen almost as a little controversial, so that we had to start a new thread for objections to such a subversive enterprise :eek:


The I Ching is still a mystery. We are still discovering it through our lives in experience, through art, through discussion and through scholarly endeavour.....aren't we. I think so anyway.

Many many people who consult Yi surely finds at some point their answer as manifested to them didn't actually conform to what some scholar 100 years ago translated it as or what some writer even 10 years ago commentaried. They often find lots of other meanings over time in their interactions with Yi, becasue as far as I am concerned they are interactions. Interacting with Yi is really much more than words on a page. The words are there, scholars aim to find the nearest meaning in translation from chinese and we work and learn gratefully from them but I don't think we have to make our experience fit precisely with those words. Words are a guide, an expression, they can never hold all meaning.


BTW it occurs to me that people have been discussing and thinking of Yi in terms of Artwork in Exploring Divination for years, there's whole threads like this yet not one of these were ever challenged as not sticking to the 'standard'. I wonder why it is not challenged when people posts paintings or photos or even poems and songs of hexagrams and lines....and yet when people post their experiences this is somehow somewhat subversive ?


I'm wondering if some might prefer Yi to be this conceptual thing on paper, artistically represented, mathematically analysed.....but they get a bit 'hmmmm' when people simply report how answers have turned out for them in their own view.


I get answers, I look at texts, and yes I am familar with texts and 'standard' meanings and then I carry that answer with me and i get a feel for it in real life. See how it feels , what happens and so and so on. I feel all the time I am discovering and I imagined so was everyone else. I'd never imagined some people might want to keep it all out of the actual living of the answers.

I'm not saying one can just make an answer mean anything at all but I haven't actually seen anyone do that so far. So far all I've seen on the unchanging castings threads are people actively incorporating the texts into their lived world and then telling the tale as they see it as invited to do so.




When I said I had my own ideas I did not mean I don't look at texts....I meant I have my own ideas of what Yi is to me as an Oracle. I personally don't think it's a clever mathematical tool for fortune telling, or mass consciousness or .....or even just a bunch of lines, to me it's a totally spiritual Oracle with a wicked sense of humour and a kind heart who can also be very rude and sharp indeed ! But to be truthful I don't think anyone actually really knows what it is....we all touch different parts of the elephant so to speak....

.....if it is just a bunch of lines it causes a heck of alot of controversy :rolleyes:


Hmmm anyway maybe I'll go and start the hex 14 uc thread now....I wonder if anyone has any of their own experiences of that to share ?
 

Trojina

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ps I may have gotten your view wrong Tuck but i do find it hard to follow ...this idea that there is a 'right' hexagram one can cast.....I mean the answer you get is the right answer for you isn't it ?
 

Trojina

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Oh and BTW I think this is a very useful thread to have going alongside the unchanging castings threads.
 

mryou1

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It is not as if anyone on the hexagram 11 unchanging thread made up alot of stuff about hexagram 11 out of thin air. I think everyone who wrote there are pretty well familiar with the translations of the text of hexgram 11. What makes you think they aren't ?
Though it wasn't completely clear, I wasn't specifically talking about that thread. I've been lurking those threads and I like them a lot. I was more on your side, as you could see from what I wrote, trojan. I just think part of what tuck's saying is right. I won't use any real examples so as to not hurt anyone's feelings, but sometimes in Shared Readings I'll see questions like (and this is clearly an exaggeration) "Should I stay in this tumultuous relationship? I received 33 unchanging, that means yes right? I mean, it does say 'success'.". I mean, I don't see it often, but it does happen and it's a bit obvious that the querent is only reading into it as much as it will satisfy the opinion they already hold. So that part of tuck's concern is certainly founded.

And I don't even think tuck's that far away from everyone else's ideas, he just not to disregard the blunt answer the I Ching gives you IN FAVOR of your own subjective idea, but maybe mesh the two (which nobody in the thread was doing wrong, again, don't get me wrong). As far as I can gather. I don't see why everyone was so defensive in these threads, it seems like they were projecting this offensive stance onto tuck's words that just weren't there. He just has a "conservative" stance on the I Ching and was saying how he incorporates that into 11... which is what the thread was about.
 

Trojina

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And I don't even think tuck's that far away from everyone else's ideas, he just not to disregard the blunt answer the I Ching gives you IN FAVOR of your own subjective idea, but maybe mesh the two (which nobody in the thread was doing wrong, again, don't get me wrong). As far as I can gather. I don't see why everyone was so defensive in these threads, it seems like they were projecting this offensive stance onto tuck's words that just weren't there. He just has a "conservative" stance on the I Ching and was saying how he incorporates that into 11... which is what the thread was about.
Well the thread was about people's experiences of 11uc and Tuck seemed to want to discuss the validity of that. That's fair enough it just needs a separate thread as he agreed since it seemed like a discussion that could get quite lengthy....and it has. ( ETA I agree Tuck did not mean offence, there was a small misunderstanding on that 11 thread which was cleared up.)

I would have thought those with a conservative view of Yi might have quite a few experiences to share since they may be watching outcomes more closely ? I'm hoping Tuck is going to turn up on the hex 14 uc thread and say it made him a multi millionaire :D


I wasn't specifically talking about that thread. I've been lurking those threads and I like them a lot.

Great....dig out your journals if you have any ....I want to hear all about your unchanging castings :D
 
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hilary

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Tuck said:
The point is who can assure me that the obtained case is right to me when I got it?
Short answer: no-one can assure you. How could they? We have had members here who would maintain that the answer you receive is no more relevant or 'right' for you than any of the other 4,095 possible answers.

Hm, I was going to continue with a 'long answer', but I think all I have is an even shorter one: experience.
 

tuckchang

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Dear Trojan (and Hilary),

With regard to a right or a wrong cast, I try to dig out what is in my mind (related or un-related) and unconsciously influences my thoughts, and express it as clear as possible; there might be something still undiscovered or incorrect, I will revert.
You don’t have to agree with me; I just write what I thought for your reference.

1) Generally speaking, according to the local numerology:
A) Divination is regarded as a short term effect; one week or three months, there is no definition. I agree.
B) People come to see a diviner for advice, which is regarded as their fate; if the diviner makes a wrong interpretation, which is their fate; by the wrong advice people succeed or fail, which is their fate as well. I don’t know whether these are correct concept, but I do believe that divination won’t change fate.
C) A hexagram might be a good sign to a question but bad to the other, i.e. good or bad depending on the question. I agree.
D) However some diviners have a data base of different definitions of a hexagram or line which are derived from several theories, or …. , the advice is given randomly according to the first link to what in their data base and at that moment. I reluctantly agree on it from the viewpoint of fate.
E) Local people also ask other’s paraphrase or experience on a cast; I have no chance to check which advice they will take and what is the outcome. People in SR know better than me. But I have never seen that local people seek, here and there, for the best suited to their wish.

2) My opinions:
A) If what turns out doesn’t conform to my definition of a hexagram or line, the obtained cast isn’t right to me.
If what turns out conforms to my definition, the cast is right to me.
But, is it a right cast or a wrong cast, or my fate? It depends.
B) I try to understand what the I Ching intends to tell me, and have a definition of each hexagram or line according to my understanding. When I divine, I count on the I Ching to guide me to a right hexagram or line according to what it said to me, i.e. my understanding.
C) I don’t know which cast I will obtain, but sometimes I do wish what answer it is. I don’t know whether it is a right cast to me or not when I divine. If it turns out to be not in conformity to my understanding, I will check whether anything is missing in my understanding of what the I Ching said to me, or I will take that the I Ching didn’t guide me to a right hexagram or line. Why should the I Ching always guide me right?
D) I know my fate and who I am. Usually I don’t divine for what is impossible according to my fate or what is not right for me to do. Sometimes I did divine for a crazy dream, I only take it as self-comfort, which has nothing to do with a right or wrong cast. If I did divine for advice of an action, I will put myself on the right position for what I intend, do what is right and good, and try my best. If it doesn’t work, see item C or item D.
E) Divination is regarded as a short term effect, according to the spirit of Yi or the I Ching, each hexagram or line is only a temporary status; even it is taken for the outcome but not the end result.
F) I don’t understand the meaning of ‘Heaven’s loving protection’ said by Fallada. If it meets her experiences, perfect! To me, the important thing is what is in one’s mind when one divines.

My experience:
I seldom divined because I know my fate and what the I Ching said to me, ……..and I am at the age of no too much desire. But occasionally I provided advice of how to relate my definition of a hexagram or line to a specific question for people who use my paraphrase on the I Ching as their divinatory basis. Usually I would receive an email of thanks when the advice was positive and came true, but almost no email for the negative advice unless people accepted the fact and took no action.

Last but not least:
I really don’t like that people treat the so-called academic study or approach of the I Ching as an alien or call it conservative. What is wrong with analyses on a hexagram and its texts from the principle of hexagram, from the times of the writer, from the background of related culture, from Ten Wings, and … in order to find its original or true significance from the so-called Confucian perspective? especially and most likely those even don’t know what content it is. People use the I Ching for divination, completely or partially (Yin, Yang, heaven, earth, and ..., which we take for granted, are defined by Ten Wings!). I will appreciate that people can correct my paraphrase or understanding on Yi or the I Ching, not one word denies every thing.

Regards
Tuck
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meng

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I really don’t like that people treat the so-called academic study or approach of the I Ching as an alien or call it conservative. What is wrong with analyses on a hexagram and its texts from the principle of hexagram, from the times of the writer, from the background of related culture, from Ten Wings, and … in order to find its original or true significance from the so-called Confucian perspective? especially and most likely those even don’t know what content it is.
Hi Tuck,

I didn't take mryou1's reference to your IC views as representing any disrespect, toward you or toward what you call the academic and cultural approach - which is very close to the Confucian and Wilhelm form and spirit. This is how I interpreted his use of "conservative", and I agree wholeheartedly, from reading your posts since you've been here. I respect it a lot. There's order and beauty in what you say and how you say it, and I think at least some of that comes from your identity to the Confucian model of the IC, which among so many models represented here, is relatively conservative.

I appreciate you and your views, and relate to them as similar to my own, before I joined this forum and became exposed to many diverse, and equally valid views, I'm glad for them all, including those who hypothesize entirely differently than I do.

I think some of the emotionalism is in the words: right answer. I think it's being used and interpreted in two different ways. To use metaphors: in a 63 way and a 64 way. Right, as in it's done, finished, it has been written - 63. Or, right answer as in, keeping the rower from rowing ahead of the boat, nor lagging behind it, but being the way of timing.
 

tuckchang

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Hi Hilary,

I will never say that divination must be based on text, or my understanding is correct (but according to the common understanding of 11 UN, it is ‘to engage in a smooth state’ and a positive sign; it is perfect if people have other definition). I said in my last post: To me, the important thing is what is in one’s mind when one divines.
It is true that I take the hexagram name, its texts and people’s understanding of those as the basis if divination is made based on Yi or the I Ching, but not the hexagram, which people can do whatever they like.

As to what is the right or wrong cast to me, and who can assure me …., I also explained more in the last post.

People can disagree with me but don’t misread me.

Regards
Tuck
www.iching123.com
 

meng

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I hope Tuck won't mind sharing my impression, and I don't know him in real life, but I receive humor in many things he says, and I don't take his metaphors literally. I think sarcasm is intended in a light way sometimes, but I think that to a western mind, it comes off as more serious and absolute. I do think our cultural differences come to play. I know some things about Confucianism and eastern thought, but have never lived in a culture influenced by it, nor been born into the mind and spirit of it, at least not in this lifetime.
 

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