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Two castings about how to continue with a woman

karl

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Hi,

two months ago I wrote here about a woman I got to know and a casting I did a year ago ("Nine months after a casting of mine").

I love this woman very much and would like to start a relationship with her. She likes me too. But the situation is nevertheless somewhat difficult and I have to make a decision about whether and how to continue this. For this reason I did two castings (as recommended by the "Book of the Moon" website).

Some information about what has happened since my last message:

As I wrote in my previous message, she is many years younger than me, comes from Southern America and is living since many years in Europe. We met seven times so far, sometimes only the two of us and sometimes with her and my friends. Until about two weeks ago we got slowly closer, physical (hugging, kissing cheeks) as well as in our communication. But this was still more like a close friendship, although there is clearly an emotional tension (in a positive sense) between us.

Then I started to show her more clearly, that I want to deepen our friendship, by making allusions to this and by giving her small gifts. She seemed to react to this by treating me more like a buddy (calling me buddy in SMSs), touching me less than before, making allusions about why we don't go together in a relationship by telling to someone else (who was born under the sign of Leo like me), that she never could imagine a relationship with a Leo (her sign is Capricorn), because this surely will lead to power struggles. She said, that she has a lot of close buddies, who are Leos. I have a pretty easy-going temperament, I rarely indulge in power struggles. When I mentioned my ascendant, she seemed to be reassured.

Generally she is very energetic and has a tendency to control our interaction. She often replies late to my proposals (by SMS), ignores them sometimes and makes counter-proposals. Although, when she has no time, she rarely tells me this immediately, often at the last moment (I do not ask her a second time).

Last Friday I got two bad pieces of news from her, which are the reason, that I have to decide about how to continue this.

Firstly, I got to know that she is married with the man, who I thought is her ex-boyfriend. He told me this. There's nothing between them anymore, but she still has an own room in their apartment. She told me this weeks ago and I might have misunderstood her about what she meant with "her ex".

Secondly, she told me Friday, that on Saturday she flies to Sweden (1000 Miles away from here)for two weeks, while I was hoping that we could go on holiday for some days over Easter. But I didn't ask her yet. She also mentioned a week ago, that she has a friend in Sweden, who is her true love, although they see themselves only three times a year. One month ago, this guy visited her over the weekend. She declined a proposal of mine to meet on Saturday evening, but suggested to meet on Sunday evening, after the Swede had left. She was waiting for my consent, but I misunderstood her and didn't reply. Some days later I got a message from her, wherein she asked, where I am. She obviously thought that I'm annoyed and that I'm about to pull back. By chance I saw them sitting in a pub. She didn't see me. It looked like a platonic friendship. She got to know this guy via the internet.

I'm not quite sure about this, but from how she treats bad news for me or refusals of proposals, when she has no time or when I see her with another man, I have the impression, that she fears, that I could pull back. There have been two situations, where I saw her by chance talking with another man in a pub. In both cases, she came to me and explained, why this is without significance.

Anyway, in order to make a decision about how to proceed, I did the castings. I thought about the following options:

1.) stay friends with her, try to deepen the friendship and maybe draw her closer to me over time

2.) court her actively until I eiter win her over or until she makes clear, that she isn't interested in a realationship with me

3.) seduce and court her more methodically by calculated absence times and showing her, that I might find a partner somewhere else (this is contrary to what I wrote in my last message), in order to make clear to her, that I have a life myself and that I'm not going to settle for less than what I want in life

I asked the following questions:

"If I stay friends with her, how will it go on?"

The resulting hexagram was #06 (The Gong Speaks) with the following lines: 9 at 2, 9 at 5 and Above 9.

I'm not very experienced in interpreting the texts of hexagrams, but to me this seems to point to option 3.), if necessary followed by a frank talk (which I think would be premature now) about my expections from life in general, my feelings towards her, the respect I have for her expectations and the consequences I have to take, if my expectations aren't met.

My second question was:

"If I try to seduce her, how will it go on?"

The resulting hexagram was #01 (The Structure of Heaven), without lines.

From what I read, this seems to point to option 1.) (friendship), and suggesting to wait for the right moment, which I should recognize by intuition, to make a move. I wonder, if I shouldn't have done this already. Personally I find option 1.) most appealing. But I think I wouldn't continue it, if she flies another time to Sweden.

I would like to hear other opinions, because my interpretations are surely too superficial. I have to think more about the hexagrams.

Thanks in advance
Karl
 

karl

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I read more in the archive of this site about Hexagram 6 and hexagram 1 and recognized that my rash interpretation of the hexagrams was nonsense.

Hexagram 6 is about conflict. The conflict we're having is about the direction our acquaintance goes. She gives me subtle hints, that she prefers a close friendship. I give her subtle hints, that I prefer a love affair, which would include the close friendship for me. She might merely try to slow me down, which would be no problem for me. But we didn't yet talk openly about that. And I don't know if talking about it makes sense at all. All three lines make a valuable point, but seem to suggest different procedures. I can't decide from that which way to go.

Hexagram 1 is about masculine strength and suggests to me to use my intuition to make a bold move at the right time to win her for a love affair, while at the same time risking of losing her completely. I was considering this already, but there wasn't a good opportunity. She somewhat seems to avoid situations, that could get a bit romantic, although the proposals for such situations sometimes come from her. For example she asked several times about my new apartment and agreed to come there, when I'm finished with the work from my recent move. But when I invited her, she had no time. Might have been true, but it's also possible, that she's trying to delay.

When asking the questions, I followed the advice from the "Book of the Moon" website, to ask two opposite questions like "What will be, if I do ..." and "What will be, if I don't do ...". The questions I posed confront the "friendship" approach, which I followed so far until I got the bad news, with a "more manipulative seduction" approach, which anyway doesn't correspond very much with my nature (but at least a little bit with hers).

So my conclusion from both hexagrams is to follow the friendship path, look more closely what I really want, possibly argue with her about my and her expections, depending on the situation, and then make a bold move, when my intuition tells me, that the time is right.

Am I right with this assessment?

Karl
 

dobro p

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"If I stay friends with her, how will it go on?"

6.2 - Abandoning an unwinnable conflict.

6.5 - Contending (arguing your side of a contentious issue) is an excellent approach.

6.6 - Even if you win the prize, it'll be taken away from you right away.

It doesn't look very positive, does it? It looks like the best you can hope for in this situation is to state your case clearly and forcefull (6.5), but it looks like you're not going to get the girl in the end.


"If I try to seduce her, how will it go on?"

Hex 1 is about the action of the Creative in the situation, simultaneously creative and destructive. It's a major doorway of change. It talks about excellent attainment, and how advantageous it is to carry out what you think is right.

Sounds to me like you should go for it.

Here's the score so far as I see it:

Remain friends with her: 0
Seduce her: 1

I don't know whether you'll win the girl or not. But the Hex 1 approach is better for you no matter what happens. Go gently though. Hex 1 is about dragon power. Don't unleash yourself on her too dragonishly (grin).
 

karl

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Thanks for the answer, Dobro. What I find astonishing is that the hexagrams seem to be so closely related to my problem.

"It doesn't look very positive, does it?"

It looked already better. Originally it was her, who approached me. Somehow she made me fall for her. The mistake I made then, was to crowd her a bit and to hint my intentions too obviously.

"Hex 1 is about the action of the Creative in the situation, simultaneously creative and destructive. It's a major doorway of change. It talks about excellent attainment, and how advantageous it is to carry out what you think is right."

So it means more than a bold move in this case. Every little trick, that draws her towards me, even if it is manipulative or maybe even destructive with regards to her other relationships. But it's only to her best, isn't it? (grin)

"Hex 1 is about dragon power. Don't unleash yourself on her too dragonishly (grin)."

Where can I read more about Hex 1 and the dragon power?
 

chrislofting

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hex6 is more about compromise - to meet opposition half way, no less, no more.

The focus is on competitive exchange, singlemindedness, in a context of containment, internal distribution/consumption.

The overall focus of water is on security seeking, protection, preservation, and as such a barrier that can be hard to get through - an emotional bias is to rejection first and the 'prove yourself' - it has roots in responding to a history of betrayal BUT people can also be born that way and so spend their lives sensing they have been betrayed and so MUST protect when the betrayal in fact never took place!

Water reduces to the raw 'species-nature' quality of contractive bounding, to put up a wall to protect what is behind it from 'corruption' sourced beyond the wall.

Note the tie to five-phase concept of consumption aka internal distribution.

To get through the wall requires understanding of the filtering processes at work, as in social rules or personal experiences that let some in, keep others out.

IN this context is operating competitive exchange, single mindedness in the form of heaven trigram. Due to the core boundary concept of water so the focus is on stopping at the boundary and so compromise. This can be exaggerated into the concept of 'conflict' but is more in a formal, legal format (as in lawyers in court etc)

WITHIN the octet of water based hexagrams, 6 is an exaggeration of 7 where 7 is the structure (in a context of containment - water in lower - is a text of absolute trust to another/others - earth in upper) - so you can see the exaggeration of an army is in putting it into action BUT the boundary factor in water in general means that is where we meet and where any 'conflict' takes place.

Chris.
 

chrislofting

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the octet of hexagrams of water:

balanced - exaggerated
07 -> 06
04 -> 47
29 -> 64
59 -> 40
 

dobro p

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Karl - I don't think you've quite understand what I've said (or what you've said either). Originally, you said this:

"Hexagram 1 is about masculine strength and suggests to me to use my intuition to make a bold move at the right time to win her for a love affair, while at the same time risking of losing her completely."

'masculine strength', 'a bold move at the right time' is the part I'd like to focus on.

Then I posted my understanding of what Hex 1 means:

"Hex 1 is about the action of the Creative in the situation, simultaneously creative and destructive. It's a major doorway of change. It talks about excellent attainment, and how advantageous it is to carry out what you think is right."

I want to focus on the words: "carry out what you think is right"

Then, in your most recent post you said this:

"So it means more than a bold move in this case. Every little trick, that draws her towards me, even if it is manipulative or maybe even destructive with regards to her other relationships. But it's only to her best, isn't it? (grin)"

No, I don't think it means any of those things, unless they were in your mind when you did the toss that gave you Hex 1. Originally, you said 'a bold move', not 'more than a bold move'. Originally you didn't mention any of the manipulation or possible destructiveness that you're talking about now. How does this connect with 'carrying out what you think is right'? What do you mean by 'seducing her'? What's the right thing to do in that context?

So, to clarify: if it's a bold move, I'd say go for it. If it's an over-bold move, possibly manipulative, possibly destructive, I'd say don't go for it.
 

karl

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Chris,

what you wrote is heavy stuff for me. I have to digest this before I can comment on it.

I was on your I Ching Plus website and answered the questions there to get a hexagram. Interestingly the result was hex 1 too, although I don't quite understand what you mean with "Situation was facts oriented but now not sure".

Karl
 

karl

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Dobro,

yes, what I wrote was a bit confusing. I had something in mind, when I formulated my questions and did the casting, but didn't say what it was. What I wrote later were conclusions I drew from the hexagrams and from what you wrote. My problem is, that I don't have a good source, which helps me to interpret the hexagrams. I used to have a business-oriented book about the I-Ching, but gave it to someone.

What I had in mind, when I asked the two questions, was the following:

First, with both strategies, the friendship path and the seduction path, my intentions are the same: a love affair or relationship with her.

So far I was very nice to her, showed her my affection and let her know, that I'm interested in more than a friendship with her. This had the effect, that she likes to be in my company, but sent subtle messages, that she doesn't want more than that. So, superficially viewed, this didn't work. Upon closer examination, I'm not quite that sure. She's sending mixed signals. On one day she is very touchy, even rubbed her body against my leg, on the next day she tells me, that our signs of the zodiac don't harmonize. I wrote, that she showed interest in me, before I did so in her. She approched me two months ago, kissed me on the cheeks and invited me to her birthday party on the day we met. I'm quite sure, that she knows this guy in Sweden very much longer, probably at least one and half a year.

So, by abandoning the friendship path, it might be that I'm abandoning something, that actually worked, but requires more time.

What I had in mind with my first question was: Could I be successful with regards to my intentions, if I continue to behave the same towards her like I did so far (being nice, showing affection), but by omitting the hints, that I'm interested in more than a friendship.

It is possible, that, by giving her too much affection too soon, I appeared to be to easy to get for her and according to the saying "What's easy to get, can't be of much worth", she lost somewhat interest in me.

What I had in mind with my second question was to add something more challenging, that is seductive (or manipulative) elements, to our interaction in order to confuse her about my intentions and thus appear harder to get for her.

For example by sending mixed signals myself (she does this all the time). I could tell her (in the right context), that I like her very much, but too could never have a relationship with her, because she is (too young, married, the I-Ching told me so). Or I could let the other women, whom I meet but didn't explicitly mention so far, appear on the scene, to maker her clear, that I could soon be unavailable to her. Or I could be more unreachable, reply later, tell her that I'm abroad, occasionally cancel dates at short notice. Or I could ask her about the guy in Sweden and then use this information to discredit him subtly (something most of my female friends did, when I told them about this woman), which would be destructive.

These are all things, she does herself. I tried to appear like they don't bother me, but they did bother me, and I guess she knows this.

I hope it is clear now, what I had in mind with my questions. By asking the I-Ching I wanted to get more clear about which way to go. Both ways bear risks and chances. But the bold move would be the final step in both strategies. So I was asking more about the best way to get to the point, when the time for the bold move seems to be auspicious.

I have not much information about hex 1 and no information at all about the dragon power, so I could merely guess what this hexagram wants to tell me.

You wrote:
---------------------
"Hex 1 is about the action of the Creative in the situation, simultaneously creative and destructive. It's a major doorway of change. It talks about excellent attainment, and how advantageous it is to carry out what you think is right."

I want to focus on the words: "carry out what you think is right"
---------------------

I think, what you wrote about hex 1, is almost exactly, what I had in mind with my second question: to add more creative (seductive) moves to our interaction, but also some destructive (with regards to pure friendship between us or with regards to some of her beliefs about what I'm going to tolerate).

You emphasized "carry out what you think is right". But this doesn't answer anything for me, because I did the casting exactly for the reason, that I just didn't know which way is the right one.

You wrote:
----------------------
So, to clarify: if it's a bold move, I'd say go for it. If it's an over-bold move, possibly manipulative, possibly destructive, I'd say don't go for it.
----------------------

In your first answer, you described hex 1 as advising to get into action, both creative and destructive and said that this is preferable in this situation to what hex 6 suggests. As I wrote, maybe somewhat confusing, is that the bold move is necessary in either case. What I had in mind was not: friendship or love affair. What I had in mind was: friendship path until love affair or seduction path until love affair. The first path is more honest but not challenging for her; the second path is more confusing but probably also more intriguing.

Karl
 

chrislofting

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Karl,

a situation is either focused upon:

values (right/wrong, moral), approximations, integrations, vague, the qualitative, the unsure, the field, the sense of uncertainty, the unknown, the unlabelled, the intuitive, misty, diffuse, the 'fuzzy', holistic, general etc etc etc

OR is focused upon:

facts (true/false, logical), precision, differentiating, the quantitative, the sure, the pointed, the sense of certainty, the known, the labelled, the clear, the particular.

These are yin OR yang (and so yangish overall) but change means a middle state, one can feel 'unsure' (yinnish) and that unsurity needs to be fleshed out as a property of the questions or of the moment.

So, IF in the PAST the situation, or like situation, was one or the other but now one is not sure then if the past was yin so now must be yin changing into yang, if the past was yang then the current must be yang changing into yin.

BTW hex 01 deals with singlemindedness. Competitive exchange. Absolute trust in self. The need to assert the context. Charismatic type. Creative but also destructive - guiding light, blinding light, laser light, burning light.

In the MBTI the hexagram maps to 'serious' operators, engaging in competition as a way to refine and demonstrate their skills. IOW the play can get rough. ;-) - troubleshooters, negotiators (as in get off on their skills to get sides to agree on something - dont care what as long as they look good ;-) - warrior types as in Samuari and their sword, always trying to become 'one' with the weapon etc - focus on skill, precision, NOW, immediate. Totalist.

In the octet of heaven based trigrams, 01 is an exaggeration of 11 (and so the negotiator type focuses on balancing opposites and in doing so demonstrating one's skill - the ultimate goal is not the balancing but the demonstration of the skill in balancing)

heaven octet:

balanced - exaggerated
11 -> 01
26 -> 43
05 -> 14
09 -> 34

Chris.
 

karl

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Chris,

I made another attempt with "The Qick IC". I answered the questions as follows:

"Situation was facts oriented but now not sure"

Reason:
Until about two weeks ago I was quite sure, that she's interested in a relationship with me and acted accordingly

"Was proactive but now not sure"

Reason:
I did the pursueing, but her interest in me got weaker.

"Situation is about what will be"

Reason:
I want to know, what will be, if I act in different ways.

The first resulting hexagram is 49, the second is 62.

What comes to my mind, when reading 49 is that I showed her my affection subtly, but did not admit it openly. I was even more reserved than her, which is natural for me (I'm an introvert, she's extrovert).

In your description, hexagram 13 is mentioned as the raw context, from which this situation derives. Does this hexagram describe a situation where communication between people is frank and open without misunderstandings. This was so during our first three meetings.

"The raw base line position is described through analogy with hexagram 33 pulling back/retreating(tricking)."

I don't know, what this means, but at some point in time, there was a misunderstanding about a meeting between us. She declined a proposal by me, because her friend from Sweden was here, but suggested to meet the next day, after he had left. I misunderstood her, because she partly wrote in Spanish, and assumed she will call me the next week. I understood later, what she meant. When she called a couple days later, she seemed to be worried about me pulling back, because she preferred to meet the Swede. The fact, that I agreed immediately to meet her, might have given her the impression, that I was tricking, when I ignored her proposal, which wasn't the case. But we never cleared that up. This might have been the trigger for her to pull back a bit and start tricking herself, which in turn is the reason, why I'm now thinking about this myself.

"This passes through hexagram 30 Guiding/Direction before finding fullest expression in hexagram 49."

This sounds important, but I don't understand yet.

The lines of hex 49:

Initial 9: So this seems to tell me, that I must change, but should carefully evaluate other's people advise (which ranges between the bold move and completly pulling back). The line points to hex 31 (Affect and Affection) which states: "To take a woman is auspicious".

9 at 5: This line tells me, that I shall tell her my intentions openly and honestly (in contrast to the subtle, but obvious way i did this so far). This changes to hex 55 (Drums of victory).

Does this make any sense, what I wrote here and is there more, what I can derive from these pictures?

Karl
 

dobro p

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Karl, after reading your most recent reply to me, I've decided that one of two things is the case: either I'm not qualified to help you with understanding the I Ching, or you're not qualified to be helped by me in understanding the I Ching. Really, I don't know which it is, so don't take it personally. Sometimes two people just don't usefully connect.

That's why I'm abandoning the I Ching here for a moment and shifting to my experience and intuition. From what you've described (and you've described a lot), I'd say your approach to this girl is pretty convoluted. For example: "What I had in mind with my second question was to add something more challenging, that is seductive (or manipulative) elements, to our interaction in order to confuse her about my intentions and thus appear harder to get for her."

Well, if what you want to do is confuse her, then you're pretty confused about how to approach someone you want to get together with. Girls don't want to be confused. Girls want to be loved and appreciated and respected and spent time with. Trust me on this one. First, they want to hear: "I like you a lot. I want to spend more time with you." If they're still interested after you say that, then don't wait too long. Cuz then they want to hear: "I love you. I want to spend more time with you."

If it works out, that's fine. If it goes nowhere, well that's just another example of what I said above: 'Sometimes two people just don't usefully connect.'
 

karl

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Dobro, thanks nevertheless for your help. I don't take it personally, but allow me some comments, because I think we misunderstood each other again.

"Girls don't want to be confused."

There's a time after one has fallen in love for someone, where one wonders about the feelings of the other. This is an important part of the thrill of a romance in my opinion. If this time period is missing, it can quickly become boring.

"Girls want to be loved and appreciated and respected and spent time with. Trust me on this one."

I agree on this one. It's exactly what I did so far and it will surely be a part of what I'm going to do in the future.

"First, they want to hear: "I like you a lot. I want to spend more time with you." If they're still interested after you say that, then don't wait too long."

If I say that too soon, they not only are no longer interested, but run like hell. They want to be appreciated as a person, not only for their beauty. And for that, I have to get to know them first, else it's implausible. BTW, guys are not much different in this respect. But I agree it has to be said.

Karl
 
D

dharma

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just my 2 cents worth<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

Girls don't want to be confused. Girls want to be loved and appreciated and respected and spent time with.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>fortunately for you guys there are one or two of us real live gals on this board who can vouch for Dobro's comments and *i* am one of them


of course, not all women are the same and i admit that there are certainly some rare birds out there who will behave in the strangest of ways (during the full moon, for instance
) but chances are, if they behave like this all the time then they aren't worth the trouble unless you enjoy mind games.

the average female knows within the first 5-10 minutes of meeting someone whether the chemistry for romantic love is present for her or not. if she is truly interested and is open to the intimacy of relationship, there will be no confusion.

in your case Karl, either she is too ambivalent about being close and intimate with *anyone* right now or she is simply not into you the way that you are into her and doesn't want to hurt your feelings by being too direct about it. either way, you are barking up the wrong tree.

keep in mind also, girls are masters at developing platonic friendships with others all the time, so they normally won't reject a guy outright if he seems like "friendship" material. but when in doubt, there's nothing quite like putting it all on the line and accepting the outcome of whatever happens. one way or the other you'll discover the truth. isn't that what you want anyway?
 

lenardthefast

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Quote:"the average female knows within the first 5-10 minutes of meeting someone"

Gee, Demitra, thats an awfully long time! Guys know in the first nanosecond!




Namaste,
Leonard
 

karl

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I'm still struggling to understand hex 01.

Chris wrote:

"BTW hex 01 deals with singlemindedness. Competitive exchange. Absolute trust in self. The need to assert the context. Charismatic type. Creative but also destructive - guiding light, blinding light, laser light, burning light."

Dobro wrote about dragon power. Nowhere could I find an explanation of this term.

From a rather detailed explanation of hex 01 at

http://afpc.asso.fr/wengu/wg/wengu.php?l=Yijing&no=1

I conclude, that time and perseverance and the capability to judge a situation and act accordingly play a major role:

"According to the original meaning, the attributes [sublimity, potentiality of success, power to further, perseverance] are paired. When an individual draws this oracle, it means that success will come to him from the primal depths of the universe and that everything depends upon his seeking his happiness and that of others in one way only, that is, by perseverance in what is right."

"Applied to the human world, these attributes show the great man the way to notable success: "Because he sees with great clarity and cause and effects, he completes the six steps at the right time and mounts toward heaven on them at the right time, as though on six dragons. " The six steps are the six different positions given in the hexagram, which are represented later by the dragon symbol."

"Thus each step attained forthwith becomes a preparation for the next. Time is no longer a hindrance but the means of making actual what is potential."

I read also about the "6 Dragons" at the "Book of the moon". From there I get too the impression, that success is achieved by a stepwise process and by reading the signs acutely, before taking an action.

Very interesting was the description of line 1:

"Nowadays the midwinter point is between Scorpio and Sagittarius, so in the year -1000 it was in the middle of Capricorn."

I met her first in the middle of Capricorn a couple of days before her birthday. So recognizing her was step one.

What I do not completely understand is the relation between a patient, wise, persistent and stepwise approach and the use of immediate creative or destructive power.

Karl
 

dobro p

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"Dobro wrote about dragon power. Nowhere could I find an explanation of this term."

The Chinese used the dragon as a symbol of the creative power that simultaneously brings things into being and dissolves things out of being. It's as close as the I Ching ever comes to the western idea (or is that 'middle eastern idea') of 'Our Father who art in heaven'. It's the power that informs and shapes the universe. When you draw this hexagram, it's pointing toward something in you or your life that is powerful, creative and life-changing. Don't even begin to mess with it or deny it. It's calling the shots.
 

hilary

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Just a thought on hexagram 1, unchanging. In my experience, in general, this is connected with great ideas that can't come to anything in practice, or not at this time. In this partcular case, it looks like pure masculinity - and no feminine response. Maybe seduction works better in (quite elaborate) theory than in practice?
 

karl

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Hi Dharma, some comments:

"the average female knows within the first 5-10 minutes of meeting someone whether the chemistry for romantic love is present for her or not."

I wrote, that she approached me. We talked for 3 hours. Then she invited me to her birthday. She said for example, that I'm different than the other guys there (she probably saw me earlier, because we're both occasionally in that pub) or she said, that she exactly knows who someone is, if she meets him (she's buddhist and believes in reincarnation).

"if she is truly interested and is open to the intimacy of relationship, there will be no confusion."

There is confusion and she is not a rare bird who behaves strange. Either she is unsure about me or about herself.

"in your case Karl, either she is too ambivalent about being close and intimate with *anyone*"

To a degree we are close and intimate. But I still get the mixed signals, which prevented me so far from attempting a bold move.

"right now or she is simply not into you the way that you are into her and doesn't want to hurt your feelings by being too direct about it."

Or she's waiting for me to make a bold move and tries to get me into action by sending me the mixed signals.

"either way, you are barking up the wrong tree."

I don't think so.

"keep in mind also, girls are masters at developing platonic friendships with others all the time, so they normally won't reject a guy outright if he seems like "friendship" material."

I know this. I had many female friends and still have some. But there was always a common pattern with them. Basically they tried to make a male girlfriend out of me, by having me as companion for events, by talking about their problems. They avoided anything that would be too intimate. Believe me, this is different here. She is very touchy, makes compliments. We communicate only to setup meetings or in person. We were only once at an event together, on my proposal.

"one way or the other you'll discover the truth. isn't that what you want anyway?"

Yes, this is what I want. But the effect her mixed signals have on me, is that I tend to become impatient and think about forcing a decision by a bold action. So her mixed signals can be ínterpreted by her not being that much interested in me or they can be interpreted as her trying to get me to make a move. This is why I was asking the I-Ching.

Anyway, what I will do until she's back, is to ask myself a couple of crucial questions, for example, where I stand with her, and then try to relate all the relevant positive and negative signals, I got from her and which I might have misinterpreted previously, to those questions, so I can decide about which way to go.

Karl
 

karl

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"Just a thought on hexagram 1, unchanging. In my experience, in general, this is connected with great ideas that can't come to anything in practice, or not at this time. In this partcular case, it looks like pure masculinity - and no feminine response. Maybe seduction works better in (quite elaborate) theory than in practice?"

I didn't attempt the manipulative kind of seduction so far. I was just asking the I-Ching about it.

What you wrote would suggest to me, that the friendship path described by hex 06 would be the better alternative.
 
C

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Karl, from what I see here there is no 'relationship.' Hilary's point about #1 is that receiving #1 is not any sort of guarantee of success, rather it shows the forward drive of masculine impulse. But in order for there to be a completion or fruition of this forward drive there must also be a receptive impulse on behalf of the woman you're asking about. This does not appear to be the case, hence the conflict of 6.

Based on what you've said here, I see no reason why you'd wish to even be friends with her. Not that you should be angry or hateful toward her, just that the interest is obviously not mutually there.

Sorry.
 

hilary

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Yes, maybe, I suppose. Like Dobro said, though, it doesn't sound promising. Were you thinking of settling for friendship, when you asked, or of friendship as a method of going further?

Sorry to be such a wet blanket. (German dictionary says - Trauerkloss.) Did you actually ask about the other option, straightforward and active courtship until she lets you know unambiguously one way or the other?
 

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