Clarity,
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In my humble view, if we view 'degree of change' shown in different ways in the Hexagram, unchanging hexagram means no change on the first level.What's your feeling about the meaning of unchanging hexagrams? Harmen Mesker has the opinion that they suggest that the course of action you're considering or the path you are on already is balanced. It's a signal of "you're on the right trajectory already."
I get the sense -- which is not quite the same -- of a certain degree of helplessness. Like I'm in a certain terrain now and am waiting for certain things to happen.
What are your feelings, thoughts, and experiences?
There is an old thread you may not have seen where different views are given on thisWhat's your feeling about the meaning of unchanging hexagrams? Harmen Mesker has the opinion that they suggest that the course of action you're considering or the path you are on already is balanced. It's a signal of "you're on the right trajectory already."
I get the sense -- which is not quite the same -- of a certain degree of helplessness. Like I'm in a certain terrain now and am waiting for certain things to happen.
What are your feelings, thoughts, and experiences?
Ahh thanks. I've seen so many of the unchanging experiences threads but not this prefatory oneThere is an old thread you may not have seen where different views are given on this
You Experiences With Unchanging Castings - Hexagram 0
As was suggested, we're creating a thread here to capture general information, experiences and findings in relation to Unchanging Castings. There are 64 threads that will follow this one detailing experience with each Hexagram in its Unchanging form. Please register any overall experience with...www.onlineclarity.co.uk
This preceded all the 'Your experiences with UC hexagrams threads' here
List of unchanging hexagrams threads
Here are our threads so far about meanings of/ experiences with each hexagram unchanging: Unchanging hexagrams generally Hexagram 1, Creative Hexagram 2, Earth Hexagram 3, Sprouting Hexagram 4, Not Knowing Hexagram 5, Waiting Hexagram 6, Arguing Hexagram 7, Army Hexagram 8, Seeking Union...www.onlineclarity.co.uk
The unchanging hexagram does seem to indicate that you are in a position of balance in the specific situation that you asked the question about. There is a sense of stasis in evidence and there is a degree of freedom for you to go about things in the manner you choose. This is not a mere point of equilibrium more one that is held over a variable range. Choosing motion in the direction advocated by the Image will see more opportunities for growth become available. Choosing motion in the opposite direction, or choosing no motion at all (stagnation), will eventually bring forward another set of unique outcomes for you to experience.What's your feeling about the meaning of unchanging hexagrams? Harmen Mesker has the opinion that they suggest that the course of action you're considering or the path you are on already is balanced. It's a signal of "you're on the right trajectory already."
I get the sense -- which is not quite the same -- of a certain degree of helplessness. Like I'm in a certain terrain now and am waiting for certain things to happen.
What are your feelings, thoughts, and experiences?
My observation and experience indicate to m.e. that there is no special meaning.What's your feeling about the meaning of unchanging hexagrams?
Of course not never, but it could very well mean the person's at home now, when you asked, and that's all Yi has to say about it.Example, you ask where someone is and you receive 37 un: that doesn't mean the person will never leave their uncles house.
Right, That's exactly what it means.Of course not never, but it could very well mean the person's at home now, when you asked, and that's all Yi has to say about it.
(Uncle??)
The answer I received was H25.3.5 <> H30What is the meaning of a hexagram without moving lines?
'Disentangling' through 'Radiance.Curious about what the Yi itself has to say about this, I asked: What is the meaning of a hexagram without moving lines?
The answer I received was H25.3.5 <> H30
What this means I cannot determine for others. Everyone can see for themselves if there is anything interesting in this answer for him/her/them
I am in agreement with you that 'absolutely unchanging' is not possible in this reality. Stones, rocks and mountains are all successfully reshaped by wind or water even though it may be a slow process of a million years. Entropy will have its way in the end.Just to stimulate curiosity on the subject of "absolutely Unchanging",
This is a good perspective to bring into the discussions as 'Change Operators', which apply to all hexagram casts, with both changing or unchanging outcomes, can bring powerful insights when incorporated into the reading.I consider what the "yin yang patterns of change" tool tells me in this situation of Unchanging hexagrams:
Karcher defines the yang pattern as the 'Yang Operator' or the 'Energy Operator' and for every unchanging hexagram, as you say. is Hex 2. In his words, the Energy Operator "describes the actions through which Change occurs and its outer transformative aspects. It offers an outer stance or strategy towards the outer world."-the yang pattern represented by the difference in temperature, light, energy, humidity and soil nutrition between summer and winter would be static, without variation... summer = winter
Karcher defines the yin pattern as the 'Yin Operator' or the 'Context Operator' and for every unchanging hexagram, as you say. is Hex 1. In his words, the Context Operator "describes the place where Change occurs and its inner transformative aspects. It offers an inner stance or strategy towards the inner world."-the yin pattern represented by life and transformation from the small seed sprouting and being born as a tree to the fruit with the next seed, would be just an impulse of idealization without any capacity for implementation....spring = autumn
The idea that unchanging hexagrams are jam-packed with potential is one that resonates strongly with me....in this example we have a potential seed, with potential life and potential fruit, but without conditions (summer=winter) for this to happen...how good it would be to make a new tree grow, create and harvest a new fruit... .but everything is just a potential impulse with no ability to be implemented (spring = autumn)
Ah - somehow, ridiculously, I missed the absurdity. Sorry...Right, That's exactly what it means.
I was pointing out the absurdity of the idea that an unchanging hex means things are static or won't change.
The Inner Yang or Inspiration Operator describes the inner transformative aspects of a situation. To find the Inner or Inspiration Operator, you place a yang or strong line in each place where change is occurring independent of what kind of line is changing in the Primary Figure, and a yin or supple line in each stable place. This is independent of the particular quality of the changing and stable lines in the Primary Figure.
The Outer Yin or Realization Operator describes the places where change occurs and its possibilities of realizing your desires. To find the Outer or Realization Operator, you place a yin or supple line in each place where change is occurring independent of what kind of line is changing in the Primary Figure, and a yang or strong line in each stable place. This is independent of the particular quality of the changing and stable lines.
"What is the meaning of a hexagram without moving lines?"
"One aspect that is implicit in your post, and could, I feel, be more beneficially stated is that the 'Context Operator' and the 'Energy Operator' act together in unison across a threshold."
"What is the meaning of a hexagram without moving lines?"
What's your feeling about the meaning of unchanging hexagrams?
Harmen Mesker has the opinion that they suggest that the course of action you're considering or the path you are on already is balanced. It's a signal of "you're on the right trajectory already."
I get the sense -- which is not quite the same -- of a certain degree of helplessness. Like I'm in a certain terrain now and am waiting for certain things to happen.
You are right. I have different sets of notes and did refer to the ones taken from 'Total I Ching', many years ago, rather than the ones I made more recently having discovered the Karcher website - https://ichinglivingchange.org/. Thank you for correcting things. My error.Hi my_key,
Please be aware that in the book "Total I Ching: myths for change" there is a mistake in the definition of change patterns.
Fortunately, on Karcher website there is a PDF on how
he applies the change patterns, there with the correct definition.
I agree, situations are never without motion. Sometimes the motion is imperceptible by human measurements The maths is something that I do not easily follow, and I'm glad that there are others, like you, who pick up this baton and run with it. I'll defer on making a comment on this part.But for me, in relation to this topic, what stands out is precisely the fact that there is currently the certainty that everything is in motion relative to everything else. Even trying, experimentally, to force something to a state of zero energy, it turned out impossible. Mathematically, it is also proven.
(perhaps this certainty did not exist when the book of CHANGES was created)
Yup. In the wider field of 64 hexagrams this is certainly so. Even the hierarchy in the nuclear hexagrams point to this. Boiling down to 4 core energies - 1,2,63.64. Hex 1 and 2 provide original power while 63 and 64 bring the twist in the tail that keeps the marriage fresh. In every shamanic journey, there is a twist that provides an unexpected starting point for the next step.... and therefore how to interpret what the book of CHANGES wants to convey when it presents a pattern (hexagram) completely isolated, Unchanging, from everything else... isolated from this whole that is represented by the interaction of these 64 hexagram, which in essence is nothing more than the representation of "hex1" and "hex2" interacting with each other in this "eternal universal marriage"?
Do you see the paradox as solely being the isolation?...how to interpret an Unchanging hexagram taking into account what was written about its intrinsic characteristics, if these "intrinsic characteristics" are also defined in a relative way and in comparison also with what each one is not in relation to the other 63 hexagrams?
- how to interpret this paradox of an Unchanging hexagram, completely isolated in itself, when everything exists relatively and in relation to everything else... this is the question that cannot be forgotten?
I'll take your word. Maths does not equate with clarity in my world although there is enough substantive examples to show it has a real bearing in the form of our Universe. I remember a maths teacher who 'proved' 1=2, to the class. Eventually revealing some jiggery-pokery involving a hidden algebraic division that equated to dividing by zero, that sent the whole 'proof. tumbling to the ground. The twist was there if only the class had been smart enough to see it.This paradox is best represented with the help of 'Change Operators' when the mathematical process of its application is clear
You've left me way behind with all this maths stuff. I'm glad you find some sense in it.Using your hexagram 29 UN and applying the mathematical process of 'Change Operators' it will become clear how the paradox exposes a very interesting way of thinking about what Yi wants to convey in your case:
View attachment 5702
I can see, without maths (that still serves to confuse me), how yang pattern is based in the influence of yin and yin patterns are based in yang for unchanging hexagrams.my_key said:
the definition and mathematical application of the 'Change Operators', as you can see in the image, already implies from the root what you wrote, but not only the 'Change Operators' but also the opposite hexagram. - the yin-yang concept emerging in the mathematical application of 'Change Operators'.
But it turns out that in the particular case of Unchanging hexagram, the yang pattern is always hex 2 UN, a completely yin characteristic in a yang function...there is no inspiring energy for something to be accomplished.
..and this is also why the yin pattern is left with a completely yang characteristic with hex 1, with no capacity to realize, only to idealize...everything is blocked, in a situation of Unchanging hexagram, due to the inversion of the functions of the ' Change Operators'.
- we are faced with an "incomplete/impossible cycle, there is no energy ("summer = winter")
This would also support a perspective that Unchanging Hexagrams, that are without the energy and the right conditions for a birth / manifestation of a change, who spark some 'creative tension'. Inspired to form, in the inner landscape, and not quite ready to be realised into a new dream. Inner and Outer influences hold the strategy or state of in some subliminal place that provides a nucleus of new potential. These work together in harmony as in Unchanging Hexagram, both yin patterns and yang patterns operate simultaneously, combining just Hex 1 and Hex 2 energies across the threshold between two worlds.How can it help to try to relate this vision of a paradoxical situation with what is behind the question:
"we see a hex 29 "trying to be born" but without the energy and conditions to do so, just a fictitious birth as there is no yin pattern with the capacity to achieve it. We also see a hex 30, an "imaginary fruit", not real, without the power to clarify and illuminate a true path, with a secure heart, capable of confronting the birth of fear and anxiety of a path without certainties."
I'm not sure that there is a simple example when you bring Change Operators into the equation....this is just a very simple example of how this "paradox approach" helps consider what 29 UN could be saying in your case... "all in all" I got the impression that you are in a situation where you still don't know very well "how to deal" with the Unchanging hexagrams....which makes sense to me considering the paradoxical situation I was talking about in relation to them.
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).