...life can be translucent

Menu

Using two divination systems to cross-check. Anyone else have experience trying this?

ZeroPoint

Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2018
Messages
37
Reaction score
1
In general, I consistently find Yi the better of the two forms, and sometimes can use it to pick apart questions arising from my other system (Western astrology). Lately I've been surprised that regardless of whether I initially cast one or the other, meanings increasingly converge although the explanations about how they converge (or will converge) are usually more obvious in one than the other. It hasn't happened that they contradict each other.

For example, I had started another thread earlier today about whether to buy an expensive class, given that I may be too old to really leverage it; Yi seemed to be clear that I should do it, the chart said "and here's how it will most likely manifest, given that you do the things you should do." I know astrology much better than I know Yi. What I notice is that it's easier for me to handle Yi's openness, and I feel better able to work around the ambiguity in either system. One thing that definitely goes better: when I write a horoscope for myself, it's subjectively hard to read, and Yi can offer the necessary distance.

I don't really have a question, other than I'd be curious to know if anyone else is similarly experimenting, and what they notice.
 

rosada

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
7,056
Reaction score
66
I will frequently use the ic to help me recognize the essential elements in an astrological chart. I find it best if I first study the chart so I have a solid foundation for the ic insights to build on.
 

rosada

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
7,056
Reaction score
66
And yes, like you, when I’m doing a reading for myself it seems the I Ching is the better guide. (With Saturn and Pluto in my first house these days all the chart seems to say is “Don’t!” :) )
 

jukkodave

Senior member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
249
Reaction score
2
Zeropoint, What a brilliant "question", I would have expected hundreds of responses. After all what else are we doing but "checking" the all knowing oracle that is ourselves every time we cast a Yi reading. We wouldny even know what questions to ask unless that was the case.
I think the difficulty, which you have highlighted yourself -"horoscope for myself, it's subjectively hard to read, and Yi can offer the necessary distance"- is that Yi and Astrology are such different modalities. Both can obviously be used for tremendous insight into ones self, and both have been used for "predictive" aspects, though why anyone would wish to use either tool in such a way and miss the real power of both systems has always been a puzzle to me.
As always it comes down to understanding. Bradford raised the "question" regarding positive and negative Hexagrams and pointed out that there really is no such thing. So it depends on our "understanding " of whatever modality we are using as a comparison to be able to determine if one cross checkes with the other.
So Roseada I would most certainly not be taking the "negative" perspective of having Saturn and Pluto in the first house as a negative thing declaring dont. You only have them there "these days", imagine if one was to take a positive/nagative view if they were there, all the time, in the Natal Chart. Pluto provides the potential for an incredible focus and Saturn, in various ways, makes it clearer what to focus on. So what a wonderful opportunity to have both Pluto and Saturn in such a personal position. Though of course, given the works of Gauquelin, that you may be actually referrencing the 12th house and not the first and so the "focus" of Pluto and Saturn would be entirely different and may be the very reason why you consider that it is saying "dont" to questions that would be appropriate to the first house but would not be appropriate to the 12th. Highlighting the importance for accuracy in our understandings, as if we are possibly not correct and accurate in such a fundamental consideration as the direction and labelling of the Houses then the rest of our "interpretations" are going to be off beam. But that is a discussion for another forum methinks, with far to much "depth" for a Yi forum.
Thanks go to Zerpoint for such a fascinating "question". Has anyone had a more direct comparison to share, perhaps the Tai Hsuang Ching or the Tarot, both of which are capable of asking the very same specific questions as the Yi. Has anyone considered, or tried, that the questions that we are the Yi are a crosscheck of ourselves, that we actuall "know" the answer before we cast the reading but just dont know how to access it without external help. We dont of course ask any "questions" of the universe we only ask questions of ourselves, that we already know the answers to but in our ignorance we have lost the ability to "read" ourselves and even when we do it seems that we rarely have the trust in ourselves to "know" what we have of course known all along.

All the best to everyone
 

Freedda

Senior member
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Nov 16, 2016
Messages
1,466
Reaction score
57
I don't know any other divination or hermetic systems at all, but when I use the Yi, I often look at the corresponding tarot card in Bradford Hatcher's Tarot as a Counseling Language, not as a cross-check, but to see if the tarot can give me any more information, flush things out a bit, or offer new ideas or directions. This of course is not a strict interpretation - not even close - and the 'correspondences' between the Yi and Tarot are Bradford's idea. I suspect my response might be a bit off-topic, but still, I often find exploring these connections useful and helpful.

D.
 
Last edited:

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
19,736
Reaction score
101
Using two divination systems to cross-check. Anyone else have experience trying this?
In general, I consistently find Yi the better of the two forms, and sometimes can use it to pick apart questions arising from my other system (Western astrology). Lately I've been surprised that regardless of whether I initially cast one or the other, meanings increasingly converge although the explanations about how they converge (or will converge) are usually more obvious in one than the other. It hasn't happened that they contradict each other.
I don't feel consulting Yi and looking at one's astrological chart are in any way comparable. When you look at your chart you are studying a laid out map as it were, you aren't asking it questions or talking to it in your head nor are you receiving answers as in conversation.


Yi is a living oracle not a map, although it often does function as one to let one know where one is at.

I use both but I wouldn't have any reason to compare them about an any particular issue. I mean astrology can give a broad indication of the flavour of the time and the kinds of growth and change that may occur. Comparing the transits to the natal chart one can view the development of the personality and so on. However astrology would just be too broad to answer all the questions and choices that arise in daily life for us. For example if I need to know if I can trust a group of people I've just met I might note that Neptune transiting my south node could reveal my misplace of trust, again, but it's such a long transit, I can't go by that alone and Yi would be more helpful for that.
 

rosada

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
7,056
Reaction score
66
There is an astrological system known as "horary astrology" that is used for answering specific questions. You ask a question and then cast the chart for the moment the question is asked. The rules for interpretation are some what different for how you would interpret a birth chart. For example if you were to ask, "Can I trust this group of people?" you check the aspects between the first house ruler - you - and the 11th house ruler - the group. If the rulers are making a grand trine between them and the planet Jupiter this would indicate you all could trust each other. Or if you wanted to know the whereabouts of a missing book, you would look to see where the ruler of the third house - which rules books - was and if it was in the 9th house of long journeys you'd know the book was far away outside your home, or if it was in the first house you'd know it was with you somewhere very close by. Also the degrees the moon needs to make before it completes an aspect can answer questions about timing. Thus if you were to ask, "When will I see him again?" and the Moon was three degrees away from a trine to Venus you would know you were 3 days, weeks, months or years away from connecting. Whether the time unit was days or weeks or whatever is determined by the sign and house the Moon is in. If the Moon is in a Cardinal sign (Aries, Cancer, Libra or Capricorn) and in a Cardinal house (1st, 4th, 7th or 10th) then the event will happen in 3 days. If it is in a Cardinal sign but a fixed house (Taurus, Leo, Scorpio or Aquarius) then it will happen in 3 weeks and so forth. This can be a very accurate way of getting information if you've had a bit of experience and know what you are doing. The hard part is knowing exactly which houses to use to represent your question. When asking about a friend and possible business partner should you track the ruler of the 11th house of friends or the ruler of the 7th house of partners? This is where doing an ic reading can fine tune the answer. You might look at the chart and get a sense of the energy pattern and then turn to the I Ching to give you an interpretation of what it all means, such as "What is the significance of Mercury retrograde as I look to start my business at this time?" Mercury retrograde means having to rethink ones intentions which usually is not a good aspect for a business chart. However the I Ching reading might be 58.5 and this would assure you that the your entire business would not be sabotaged by Mercury's retrograde motion, but that you should make a special point of listening to what others have to say. All in all my experience has been that astrology is very useful for timing events, finding lost items, and for getting a general sense of the energy of the situation and the I Ching is better when you are wanting to know the philosophical meaning behind it all.
 

ZeroPoint

Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2018
Messages
37
Reaction score
1
Freedda, quite on topic, in every sense. I did not know about Bradford Hatcher. Now I'm curious. I appreciate the link!
 

ZeroPoint

Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2018
Messages
37
Reaction score
1
I've heard of horary astrology, although my forays into it on my own behalf haven't been successful. The one time I was desperate to locate something (Where is my cell phone?) astrology didn't clue me in on the places to look, or I didn't understand it. Yi gave me Not Knowing uc, which perfectly described me (and my panic).

And that was after trying the retrace- my-steps, talk to the janitors and Security, and so on.

Object lesson learned: back everything up, daily!

Astrology as a language and metaphor for approaching applied psychology does work very well for me, whether I read for myself or others.

Yi helps me with those states of "flow," when I'm conscious of being in a larger system of synchronicity and want to understand and participate in it better.

I very much appreciate all these thoughtful replies. They are helping me think.
 

heylise

Senior member
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 15, 1970
Messages
3,079
Reaction score
3
I have been translating the Zhuge Liang Shenshu for the past 2 to 3 years. It was a lot of work but it was also great to do. Beautiful poems, which also gave me much more insight and 'feel' for the language.
But they were difficult to explain. Often they gave an image, which did help me with a question, but which would be difficult to understand 'in general', when there is not a specific question. I decided to use the Yi to find this general meaning, and most of the answers triggered something which gave me a good explanation of the poem of the Shenshu, and sometimes it was even quite literally.

Shenshu 210
A great expanse of lovely rivers and mountains
An entire day of leisure on windblown sands
Already the bait on the hook has been swallowed
Why would your heart bother with great waves?

Yi’s answer to it: 22.5
Flourishing at a hilltop garden.
The bundle silks is very small, distress.
The end is auspicious.

Shenshu 348
Clouds transverse, mountains divide, waters are indistinct
From far away you long for your hometown
When obstruction or disaster come a gentleman does not hate
Or lean on the gate sad and dejected
in the slanting rays of the setting sun

Yi: 30.3
In the light of the setting sun
Not drumming on jars and singing,
then big laments of old age. Pitfall.

Shenshu 026
One time of peach and plum blossom
One time of spring
Who knows when the initial atmosphere renews?
Retired he seeks a living at the water side
Beholding the mountain with clear understanding and a gratified mind
(peach and plum: beauty of women; initial atmosphere: the Qi of spring)

Yi: hex.22 uc Fire below the mountain

Most answers were only clear to myself. Which makes sense, they were just for me, to explain the meaning in a way I would understand.

Now I usually consult the Yi, but then also throw the Shenshu for a different view on the same question. Yi makes one think about the way to solve something, Shenshu gives an image. It can be quite consoling, or sometimes tell about the positive or negative side, which Yi rather puts on your own shoulders, giving the advice what will be the consequence but leaving it to you to decide. They are like a serious older brother and a sweet little sister. Though she is not always sweet, she can give you thunder and lightning or demons and such as well.
 

legume

Senior member
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jun 26, 2018
Messages
152
Reaction score
20
I usually prefer to use just I Ching, but as I experimented with tarot last year, I did few cross-check readings and interestingly received consistent answers with 2 changing lines, where the image, lines and following hex would align in symbolism and meaning with cards in the spread. followed by drawing more cards I would generally get a broader and deeper interpretation of either main or resulting hexagram.

don't have much knowledge or understanding of astrology, was interested in numerology for a while, but not sure how these systems could be compatible with I Ching, as I don't see them as divination methods per se. on the other hand, I imagine that divination systems like I Ching or tarot can be used to deepen astrological or numerological insight by asking additional questions about certain path or specific situation from the horoscope.

generally, I'd think that anyone investing extra time and turning their full attention inwards to analyse the reading, if it's just by contemplating, strict meditation or experimenting with more than one system or divination reference, has a better chance of gaining insight and tuning into the universal interconnections that keep this forum alive ;)
 

Liselle

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 20, 1970
Messages
5,475
Reaction score
60
The one time I was desperate to locate something (Where is my cell phone?) astrology didn't clue me in on the places to look, or I didn't understand it. Yi gave me Not Knowing uc, which perfectly described me (and my panic).
Did you ever find your phone?
 

jukkodave

Senior member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
249
Reaction score
2
As Zeropoint posted

"The one time I was desperate to locate something (Where is my cell phone?) astrology didn't clue me in on the places to look, or I didn't understand it. Yi gave me Not Knowing uc, which perfectly described me (and my panic)."

Asking questions that we already know the answers to does seem rather perplexing.

Perhaps the key point should be what should we be asking questions about; what are the actual differences between the Yi and Astrology. What are the similarities. Are the fundamantal underlying principles the same for all methodologies. Well they wouldnt be underlying or findamental if they werent.

But just as the questions as to what the Yi is so the same questions are applicable to Astrology. One can of course take a particular viewpoint and beleive in that but the underlying principles reveal that not is always as it seems.
Rosada highlighted some Astrological terms in a previous post. Such things as Cardinal, retrograde, fixed, and the notion of Houses, but as Gauquelin has shown, something is awry with our understanding of "houses" so it becomes rather difficult to say that a 7th or 11th house realtes to x or y when there can be little confidence as to where the 7th and 11th Houses even are. Does anyone actually understand what Cardinal and Fixed really mean.

Dave
 

Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom

Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).

Top