Very basic question

[weaver]

Hi - I'm new to the iChing and wondered if someone could help me understand quite a basic question: How should one read the relating hexagram, versus the main one? And in the case of an unchanging hexagram, what does its lack of changing lines imply for a situation? As an example, I asked about the prospects in the next couple of months with someone I'm interested in - we don't live in the same place, and I don't think it's all very likely. I got 41.5.6 to 60. To me this seems to indicate that what's more important is a general opening up of the heart, not this interaction which doesn't appear to be going anywhere. But how should I read, in general, the relating hexagram v the main one? Thank you!

 

[Trojina]

Hi - I'm new to the iChing and wondered if someone could help me understand quite a basic question: How should one read the relating hexagram, versus the main one? And in the case of an unchanging hexagram, what does its lack of changing lines imply for a situation? As an example, I asked about the prospects in the next couple of months with someone I'm interested in - we don't live in the same place, and I don't think it's all very likely. I got 41.5.6 to 60. To me this seems to indicate that what's more important is a general opening up of the heart, not this interaction which doesn't appear to be going anywhere. But how should I read, in general, the relating hexagram v the main one? Thank you!

This question has come up many times and its worth using the 'search' function, top right of screen to find all the numerous threads there have been on it. Here is quite a recent one I found http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=14313&highlight=unchanging

Broadly the relating hexagram shows how you are placed subjectively, where you are in relation to whats going on in the primary hexagram,,,but thats not written in stone, you also need to use your intuition which will develop over time as you see how your readings play out in your life.

Re 41.5.6>60 60 might show you are approaching this re defining priorities, allocating time and attention you want to give to something.

it looks like its quite fortunate to decrease strong attachment around this relationship and I think it looks like good fortune to keep lines of friendship open (41.6).

In relationships 60 often shows theres clearly defined limits to what can be had. I think if you can be satisfied with the limits of the situation then thats fortunate for you. Often in 41.6 connections lead to connections.

So I think this could be advise to only allocate a portion of your energy to this....decrease involvement (hex 41) but also keep things open because actually one never knows where things can lead in 41.6....friends lead to other friends and so I feel it would be good to keep line sof communication open without huge expectations....just in the spirit of friendship.

 

[gene]

Weaver

In cases like this it is important to take the reading as a (symbiotic?) whole and not worry quite so much about the commentary. In hexagram forty one, lines 5 and 6 are changing. The fifth line is yin, and the sixth line is yang. They are also in a matter of speaking, neighbors, or here have an interaction with each other. However, each line is in its incorrect place, so there is a problem of sorts. The problem is related in the second hexagram because there there is a need to define things, make them clear, and know exactly where you stand. Hexagram sixty one carries on this same theme where the commentary says, "What matters here is to understand the time and not try to cover up poverty with an empty pretense." This indicates as well that we must clearly define within ourselves what is possible and what is not and not delude ourselves. Note that both hexagrams indicate good fortune or success. But success in what way? I think the real success would be clearly defining the roles you play and how you really wish to interact with each other.

The fact that both changing lines are not in their proper place indicates that the relationship right now is out of alignment, and you may need to have a meeting of the minds so to speak to know where each of you stand. When the two lines are changed, then they are in their correct place, which is the case in hexagram 60 which tells you to define the boundaries.

I would certainly be curious how this comes out, and I hope this makes sense to you and can help.

/gene

 

[pocossin]

Welcome to Clarity, Weaver.

How should one read the relating hexagram, versus the main one?

I read for insight, and when I have insight, I stop. I begin with the first hexagram, then trigrams, Image and lines, and resulting hexagram. If the first hexagram leads me to the information I need, then I consider nothing further.

And in the case of an unchanging hexagram, what does its lack of changing lines imply for a situation?

Maybe nothing. I consider a hexagram with no changing lines to change into itself, so I always have two hexagrams, the first yang, and the second yin. I continue to study the casting until I have insight into the situation and then go no further.

What are the prospects in the next couple of months with someone I'm interested in?
41.5.6 > 60

The casting suggests to me that prospects would improve if you two could celebrate Halloween together.

 

[weaver]

This question has come up many times and its worth using the 'search' function, top right of screen to find all the numerous threads there have been on it. Here is quite a recent one I found http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=14313&highlight=unchanging

Broadly the relating hexagram shows how you are placed subjectively, where you are in relation to whats going on in the primary hexagram,,,but thats not written in stone, you also need to use your intuition which will develop over time as you see how your readings play out in your life.

Re 41.5.6>60 60 might show you are approaching this re defining priorities, allocating time and attention you want to give to something.

it looks like its quite fortunate to decrease strong attachment around this relationship and I think it looks like good fortune to keep lines of friendship open (41.6).

In relationships 60 often shows theres clearly defined limits to what can be had. I think if you can be satisfied with the limits of the situation then thats fortunate for you. Often in 41.6 connections lead to connections.

So I think this could be advise to only allocate a portion of your energy to this....decrease involvement (hex 41) but also keep things open because actually one never knows where things can lead in 41.6....friends lead to other friends and so I feel it would be good to keep line sof communication open without huge expectations....just in the spirit of friendship.

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond - I'll check out the other thread you mention. Keeping lines of communication open is interesting. One of the things I find difficult to judge in the translations is who the subject of the statement is - so in 41.6 the idea of bringing about the general good didn't to me suggest connections, so much as learning to become more dispassionate, and thereby being a vehicle for someone else's good fortune (?).

 

[weaver]

Welcome to Clarity, Weaver.



I read for insight, and when I have insight, I stop. I begin with the first hexagram, then trigrams, Image and lines, and resulting hexagram. If the first hexagram leads me to the information I need, then I consider nothing further.



Maybe nothing. I consider a hexagram with no changing lines to change into itself, so I always have two hexagrams, the first yang, and the second yin. I continue to study the casting until I have insight into the situation and then go no further.

What are the prospects in the next couple of months with someone I'm interested in?
41.5.6 > 60

The casting suggests to me that prospects would improve if you two could celebrate Halloween together.

Ha, I don't think Halloween is going to happen, but it's a good thought, thank you.

Two hexagrams, one yang and one yin? I'm confused. But thank you for taking the time to respond.

 

[weaver]

Weaver

In cases like this it is important to take the reading as a (symbiotic?) whole and not worry quite so much about the commentary. In hexagram forty one, lines 5 and 6 are changing. The fifth line is yin, and the sixth line is yang. They are also in a matter of speaking, neighbors, or here have an interaction with each other. However, each line is in its incorrect place, so there is a problem of sorts. The problem is related in the second hexagram because there there is a need to define things, make them clear, and know exactly where you stand. Hexagram sixty one carries on this same theme where the commentary says, "What matters here is to understand the time and not try to cover up poverty with an empty pretense." This indicates as well that we must clearly define within ourselves what is possible and what is not and not delude ourselves. Note that both hexagrams indicate good fortune or success. But success in what way? I think the real success would be clearly defining the roles you play and how you really wish to interact with each other.

The fact that both changing lines are not in their proper place indicates that the relationship right now is out of alignment, and you may need to have a meeting of the minds so to speak to know where each of you stand. When the two lines are changed, then they are in their correct place, which is the case in hexagram 60 which tells you to define the boundaries.

I would certainly be curious how this comes out, and I hope this makes sense to you and can help.

/gene

Thanks for your response. What you say about defining the importance of this (for myself; the other person is possibly relatively oblivious) makes sense. (And yes, I'll update in the unlikely event anything happens.)

I don't quite understand how 41.5 and 6 are in incorrect places though? Is that the case for all changing lines? Sorry! Clearly I need to go find a good book about this all (I have read the basic introduction, but obviously need to learn more basics). Thanks again!

 

[gene]

Weaver

The rule is that odd numbered lines should be yang, and even numbered should be yin. Therefore the only perfect hexagram is hexagram 63. Sixty three has a problem though because due to the reality of change it cannot maintain its position. Therefore, the book of changes exist.

Usually, I do not put too much emphasis on that although I have done more lately. But when the commentary seems a little distant I look at the relationship between the lines. The third book of Wilhelm/Baynes version gives some instruction for this, but it is limited. A lot depends solely on the intuition and the experience of the reader. The more you practice, the more you see new things, and the less confused you get. But it takes time.

Gene

 

[weaver]

Ah, I see - thank you for explaining.

 

[pocossin]

Ha, I don't think Halloween is going to happen, but it's a good thought, thank you.

Two hexagrams, one yang and one yin? I'm confused. But thank you for taking the time to respond.

Too bad about Halloween. From the casting that time seems auspicious for a deeper connection. "Two hexagrams, one yang and one yin?" Yes, just like the first two hexagrams and every following pair.

 

[weaver]

Aha, I see. Thanks. (But how could you tell about the time?)

 

[pocossin]

Aha, I see. Thanks. (But how could you tell about the time?)

I think you mean, Why Halloween? The explanation is based on my study of the King Wen Sequence. Details are in Clarity's Jewelbox, but you have to be a member of Reading Circle to access it. Your query and casting were:

What are the prospects in the next couple of months with someone I'm interested in?
41.5.6 > 60

You asked about the next couple of months, so the time frame was limited. What event within the next few months accords with your casting? In terms of the sequence, hexagram 60 means burial. That is the ultimate limitation. The subject is fixed in a final resting place. The day associated with communion with the dead is Halloween, so Halloween is especially auspicious for deepening your relationship.

 

[weaver]

Ah I see! Well, it's really interesting that there could be such precision about time. If Halloween brings any news I'll certainly report it...

 

[sylwia]

Weaver, I think your reading works both ways, on the one hand you should adjust your attitude according to the boundaries, on the other, you should adjust the boundaries according to what you want.

It's always difficult to believe in change, because we can never see it from the place we're at at the moment. But often circumstances, even those that seem enormous, turn out very fragile.

As a kid I dreamt of travelling to Paris. The problem was, as a citizen of a communist country, I couldn't dream of going any further than Czechoslovakia or Bulgaria. At times, when the political situation in Poland was very turbulent, it was impossible to even get a passport, not to mention a visa. So my dream seemed ridiculous. It'd never happen.

And yet the Soviet Union collapsed and I've been to Paris on many occasions since then. Are your current boundaries greater than the Soviet Union? Because if not you might not want to worry about them so much.

What you should focus on is your attitude to the other person and their attitude to you. If being together is what both of you want you'll find a way, or the way finds you. But first think of what you want for now and ask the other person the same question. Maybe going further is too far at the moment, maybe you should first get to know each other better. If you both want things to change in future you'll do just that.

 

[bradford]

Hi - I'm new to the iChing and wondered if someone could help me understand quite a basic question: How should one read the relating hexagram, versus the main one? And in the case of an unchanging hexagram, what does its lack of changing lines imply for a situation?

I read the Zhi Gua (what you call the Relating Hexagram) the old fashioned, dumbass way that everyone likes to look down their noses at: It's the direction I'm headed in, in time. This is different from the next destination since one can go North without going all the way North.
As to the static hexagram: take some extra time and get to know this theme, get to the heart of it. It may prove useful for a while yet.

 

[weaver]

Yes absolutely - I cast the I Ching because I felt it would be too much to have a conversation about it at this point with that person, but you're right, of course. (And I am glad you got to Paris.)

 

[weaver]

Thanks for that!

I read the Zhi Gua (what you call the Relating Hexagram) the old fashioned, dumbass way that everyone likes to look down their noses at: It's the direction I'm headed in, in time. This is different from the next destination since one can go North without going all the way North.
As to the static hexagram: take some extra time and get to know this theme, get to the heart of it. It may prove useful for a while yet.