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Water / humidity problems at home and how to limit damage 56.4>52 and 59.6>29

flashlight

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Hi all,

This follows from a thread a few months ago about water problems at my house & on my property and the town's responsibility in this situation. Official processes are not moving quickly at all (understatement) and meanwhile, the level of humidity in the house will not abate, no matter what I've done, with all the consequences one can imagine.

I researched dehumidifiers and am contemplating purchase one. Of course, it won't solve the cause of the problem, but I would hope it could limit damages.

I asked the Yi What would the effect of getting a dehumidifier for the house? 56.4 to 52. Could one understand "stilling" here to mean preventing things from getting worse rather than "be still, nothing you have to do now"?

To get further insight, I asked the reverse: What would be the effect of NOT getting a dehumidifier for the house? 59.6 to 29. I'm missing this... Having to leave??

Thank you so much for your help.
 
M

mirian

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Hi flashlight,

I haven't seen your other thread so I hope that makes sense in the context. Here is my impression of your readings.

56.4 > 52 If you buy the dehumidifier the effects will not be satisfactory. I don't think that you will feel that you got good value for your money. You know that it wouldn't solve the problem anyway, but the result would just not be good enough.

59.6 > 29 If you don't get the dehumidifier then you will have to find a solution for this problem as you cannot simply carry on living in this property like this. You will have somehow to find a way to neutralise the negative impact on this on yourself and others. Is this harming your health already? Is there any way you could spend some time away from this house?

Hope that helps.
 

flashlight

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Hi Mirian,

Thanks for taking a shot at this.

No, at this point (and to my knowledge), the situation has not affected my physical health, but it affects the property - it's integrity, value and of course, at some point down the line, its resale price. This place is both my haven and my nest egg.

Even supposing down the pike the **cause** of the water infiltration problem would stop (if that is possible, not clear yet), it would take many many years for the meters of soaked soil under the road and house (my cellar is below road level...) and the meter-thick stone walls to dry.

Thus at some point, I think a heavy duty dehumidifier is going to be mandatory to help that process along (the super duper expensive industrial kind).

But before we get to that (comparatively happy) point, I am trying to find ways to limit the evolving damage. For example, some of the stones in the cellar are getting covered in salpeter; a old wood dresser is starting to rot; humidity is seeping up the walls to the main floor of the house etc (or so the humidity detector warns). In any humid environment or house, dehumidifiers are used to bring the level of ambient humidity down to a level where it does not cause damage. Thus my idea of getting a good one to prevent things from snowballing further. Not a cure, surely, but like sandbags in a flood.
 

Tim K

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I see the effect of dehumidifier, shown by 56.4 → 52 to be stilling of the wandering water.
Yes it's not the real solution of the problem, but a temporary(56) one. At least it will prevent things from going further.

And looking at 59.6 → 29 with 29! Water/danger, and 59 being dispersion - the penetration/spreading of water vapour will continue. .6 clearly says 'scattering of blood' (water).

Visually: there was Wood above Water - now there is Wet wood above water :)

Don't know how much do they cost but I think I would get one.
 

flashlight

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Thanks TimK, and of course, I prefer interpretations that support my intent... And that's part of my difficulty in progressing with the Yi....So often, it seems readings can be interpreted in different ways that I find it challenging to put faith in its answers. When I'm really stuck, I post here and much of the time too those that have the kindness to answer me read in completely (mutually exclusive?) ways. If others face the same conundrum, I'd love to hear how they find a way to get beyond that.

As to the cost of a decent humidifier, an industrial one (which the cellar will need at some point) is several thousand dollars. A mid range quality domestic puppy runs about 500-600, but that's not counting the cost of running it, and electricity here doesn't come cheap.
 

Liselle

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What a nightmare. Good grief. :mad:

The cost might be sunk, and therefore (sadly) irrelevant. From what you're saying you're going to need expensive heavy-duty dehumidifiers no matter what, even if/when the town finally does something, so...if you can get it/them now rather than later, you may as well and you'll be better off.

Getting humidifier? 56.4 > 52

'Traveller in a place to stay,
Gains property and an axe.
My heart is not glad.'


Agreeing with Tim here - I think the readings support getting it now. "Travelling's Stilling," "stilling' while you're in a strange environment, "stability" within the context of a temporary/unsettled position.

(Mirian didn't think a dehumidifier would do enough good, and that's surely true for the usual kind of home dehumidifier, which is what popped to mind for me when I first started reading, and probably did for her, too. But then you said you'd be getting an industrial-grade one, which probably makes a difference.)

Fourth lines are the position of operational decisions, like a middle manager would make. (The town has the highest responsibility and authority, sounds like.) It's the line of doing something, doing what's within your scope and ability to do.

The negativity in it, as Tim said, is probably that this is only a temporary fix and so it's not going to actually make you happy, per se. But it will make a difference.

"Gains property and an axe" - "gains property" is probably self-explanatory; it might help save your property. An "axe" might mean a tool, like a dehumidifier.

Not getting a dehumidifier? 59.6 > 29

'Dispersing blood.
Leave, go out and far away.
Not a mistake.'


My guess is this is kind of an indirect answer. I think it's saying, "There's bleeding here, chasms of danger, water and water and water. Stop (or at least stanch) the bleeding. Get as far from it as you can." Which is what a good dehumidifier would do. There might also be a tone of "I already told you, and here you sit asking more questions! Go, already! Do something!"

(Yi thinks we actually understand it the instant it talks. Sigh. It takes us a while, Yi. :()


P.S. All translations from Hilary's book.
 

rosada

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I see 59.6 - 29 as saying if you don't get the dehumidifier you will have to move.
 

flashlight

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Oooh ladies, you've gotten me even more worried about my house than I already am... (have to move? Lord, impossible! I'd lose my shirt)....

Lisa, I can't afford an industrial grade dehumidifier (several thousand dollars) but am looking at one that is way way better than the "poofy" useless puppies homeowners typically buy to help with, say, the added humidity hanging clothes to dry causes.

What just pissed me off is this situation has been known for over two years and the land flooding + cellar water issues have gone on seriously since january. The town plays dead, even when receiving "official" letters. Meanwhile, my haven and nest egg are hurting. Makes me sad...
 

Liselle

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Ah, I misunderstood. You'll need one eventually but can't get it right now. (I'd like to say the town should help defray the cost of it, but...)

I still think the reading is saying do what you can, and it will help. Naturally that could be wrong.

Do you think it would help if you got an attorney? Or have you already done that (the "official" letters)? Have you asked Yi about it? (I don't think "attorney" is in this reading.)
 

rosada

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Wilhelm mentions that 59.6 describes someone rescuing not only themselves but their whole group. Perhaps if you don't get the dehumidifier and the damage continues you will ultimately win your argument with the city and the whole community will benefit from your efforts.
 

flashlight

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Long answer, but...
@Lisa -- the situation is extremely complicated (several distinct but interconnected issues), legally, politically & personally (I will forever be an outsider here and that does not help). I evoked some of this on the other thread. It is quite hard to explain on a forum. It's too early (in terms of fact gathering) to hire an attorney (he/she would need that information and proof first in any event) and doing so would lead straight to a legal proceeding that would take 5 to 7 years to complete with no guarantee of outcome. As the old saying goes a bad compromise is better than good legal battle. My legal insurance has taken the file and named an expert to have all the details investigated in order to have all the necessary facts. The glitch is that the town has to cooperate in that as investigating the water networks falls into their bailiwick (I cannot intervene on public property and sure as hell won't foot the bill for what is their responsibility). Since the meeting end June that started the investigation (the town did not even have plans of these old old networks), nothing has moved, the town is playing dead, because it is in their interest to do so, regardless of those aspects of the situation where their responsibility is absolutely certain. Obviously, the longer things take the worse it is for my house....But launching a legal proceeding at this time would not hasten things at all.

@Rosada - In tiny towns, the outsider and his/her individual problem are always the underdog. Much easier for townsfolk to either stay out of it or play to the side of the town (to stay on their good side) than to help or support the outsider. This is not a collective interest problem, and that too does not help. However, it is likely (and this is not a isolated incident in this country) that the very old water networks for which there are no installation plans or maps affect or will affect others. The town does not want a precedent to be set in taking part in investigating my problem which they are trying to pass off as a personal/private property issue for which they have no responsibility. If this explodes into a big legal battle, it's me against everyone so to speak. The town's official even had the nerve to tell me that, since the town's coffers are empty, if they have to shell out a dime because of this messs, they'll raise taxes and blame me for it!
In the interim, if I wanted to sell the house (which at this point I don't), I couldn't. One cannot sell a house without a humongous looss of value after having discovered that public pipes criss cross under the property (without title to do so) and cause damage (this was hidden from me at purchase). And one cannot sell a house if in the middle of a pending legal proceeding. I am totally in catch-22 and trying desparately to help things not get worse. When I am here, I can monitor, ventilate at the right time weather-wise, think about a dehumidifier, scrape salpeter etc. When I am not, the humidity builds up and does it's stuff.
 

flashlight

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I was desparately searching for my original thread on this topic, but can only find my posts for August. The "search everything" google widget is apparently not working or not working with FF and my PC. It would have made more sense to post the new readings there, so that those who kindly help have the right background info.

In any event.. sigh... at long last the camera inspection of the town's pipe network that are illegally on my property (and we wonder if they have a leak somewhere that would explain the humidity problems at the house...) will take place week's end. It's been a long wait...So much rides on what is found.

Yesterday, I asked Yi "please tell me about the upshot of the investigations?". It responded 34.2 to 55. Not sure who has great vigor & constancy. Me, who'se never given up in this unpleasant situation? The local authorities (who have all power and can even confiscate my land if it suits them), or the power of water? 55 is both "this is as good as it gets" and also refers to official judgments.

This morning I asked "do I have the mandate in this battle with the town?"43.3 to 58.
"Vigor in the cheekbones means pitfall" .. what the?? Does that mean no talking? How does one negotiate and settle a problem ( or battle in court) without speaking?
igour in the cheekbones means a pitfall.
Noble one decides, decides.
Goes on alone, meets the rain,
And is indignant as if she were soaked through.
Not a mistake.

Those lines seem to be talking about me -- I am basically alone against all on this, definitely indignant, up against the rain and water....

And I finally asked just now, "is the water in the cellar from a leak in the town's pipes?" (tough to phrase that otherwise than in a yes/no configuration...) -- 24.2 to 19. Have no clue whether that points to a yes or a no answer...

(PS - as to the humidifier, even the expert said it was pointless, as if trying to bucket out water of a sinking ship. I got it anyway, gives me the illusion that I am doing a little something to protect my belongings, and in any event, when it's raining outsid and humid as hell inside, it can always help the laundry dry without taking a week...!)
 

Trojina

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Liselle

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"please tell me about the upshot of the investigations?". 34.2 to 55

Quoting Hilary's book:

'Constancy, good fortune.'

My general feeling is this is an encouraging reading. Great Vigor's Abundance, referring to the investigations - it seems to be saying that because you've stuck with this, and/or if you continue sticking with it, you'll have good results.

"do I have the mandate in this battle with the town?" 43.3 to 58

'Power in the cheekbones means a pitfall.
Noble one decides, decides.
Goes on alone, meets the rain,
And is indignant as if he were soaked through.
Not a mistake.'


Not sure about this... I wonder if it means that since the town is finally getting around to investigating, you can and should stop yelling? You've had to speak strongly to get their attention - LiSe calls 43 "The Speaking Staff" - maybe now you can move towards friendlier communication (58)?

"is the water in the cellar from a leak in the town's pipes?" 24.2 to 19

'Rest and return.
Good fortune.'


I think this is direct advice to you, rather than an answer to the exact question. Take a break from worrying (and asking anxious questions). You've accomplished a lot - you've gotten them to finally listen and do something. You don't have to be all keyed up any more (at least for right now). Go slump in your favorite chair and say "phew!" :)
 

flashlight

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Actually, I have been quiet as a church mouse since end February, just trying to limit damage and fix what I can. I've let the expert from my insurance deal with them (god things are slow..., i've been chafing at the bit). He doesn't speak up much either, rather just down to earth and pragmatic. His physical presence (well, once) really made a difference. Oh for a world where petite women have as much intimidation power as a 6'2 200 lbs male....The town considers me an annoying nut, but when this chap says the same thing, they can't brush him off like a gnat. I would love to know whether 24.2 speaks of where the water in the cellar comes from. Typically, when Yi wants to tell ME to chill, it's rather clear...
 

Liselle

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Actually, I have been quiet as a church mouse since end February, just trying to limit damage and fix what I can. I've let the expert from my insurance deal with them (god things are slow..., i've been chafing at the bit). He doesn't speak up much either, rather just down to earth and pragmatic. His physical presence (well, once) really made a difference. Oh for a world where petite women have as much intimidation power as a 6'2 200 lbs male....The town considers me an annoying nut, but when this chap says the same thing, they can't brush him off like a gnat.
In light of that...will try again...

Both of the hexagrams have to do with speaking out and communicating openly... somewhere in there has to be the general gist...

Maybe it's in the past tense? "Do I have the mandate in this battle with the town?" "Yes, because you and your insurance expert spoke out, took a stand, etc."

Or maybe it's describing the town's decision-making process? Hilary says in her commentary that "power in the cheekbones" means being "hard [and] rigidly unresponsive." Sounds about right! :rolleyes: Maybe the rest of it means they finally "decided" they had better "meet the rain," no matter how "indignant" they might feel about it? They realized they won't be able to get away with it, and continuing trying to would be worse for them in the long run ("pitfall" )? "Meet the rain" = "bite the bullet"?

I would love to know whether 24.2 speaks of where the water in the cellar comes from. Typically, when Yi wants to tell ME to chill, it's rather clear...

One thing I was thinking about with these readings is that you did them after knowing they're finally coming out to investigate (is that right?). So if determining the source of the water is the point of that, it seems perfectly reasonable (to me) that you let yourself relax in the meantime. You're probably asking out of curiosity, or because you want the real answer to compare with what they'll tell you (Yi as lie-detector). That makes perfect sense, but it's premature and with any luck it will be a moot point.
 

flashlight

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One thing I was thinking about with these readings is that you did them after knowing they're finally coming out to investigate (is that right?). So if determining the source of the water is the point of that, it seems perfectly reasonable (to me) that you let yourself relax in the meantime.

Correct.
OK, I'm off for a bubble bath, I've been cooking up a storm and cleaning all day for guests arriving!

You're probably asking out of curiosity, or because you want the real answer to compare with what they'll tell you (Yi as lie-detector).
Not so much lie detector, but it's the kind of concrete thing that helps me understand the Yi's readings better - there is no abstract in the question, what is going to happen is real, it's a good reality check to what I toss and how I (and others) interpret.

Hilary says in her commentary that "power in the cheekbones" means being "hard [and] rigidly unresponsive." Sounds about right!
That ranks as the understatement of the year!!!
 

Liselle

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Not so much lie detector, but it's the kind of concrete thing that helps me understand the Yi's readings better - there is no abstract in the question, what is going to happen is real, it's a good reality check to what I toss and how I (and others) interpret.

Oh, okay. We can file this one away to look at again later. I'm curious, too, now.

The reading might even turn out to have layers - describing the water problem AND telling you to relax.
 

Tim K

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Pipes are the source? 24.2 → 19
24 - 19.png
Imagine that bottom line is a pipe, and 2nd line is water leaking out resulting in a lake under earth.
So imho yes pipes are the problem.

Upshot? 34.2 - 55
Power(34) will be on your side, accept it. 2nd line is kinda a passive receiver of the hexagram in my opinion. Good things are coming - 55.

Do you have a mandate? 43.3 - 58
I've got this line a couple of times, for me it carries a positive vibe.
More like Crowley's translation
Fight on alone; persistant courage wins!

Struggling alone, being aggressive, yet you are in the right. 'No blame/mistake' it says. You go girl! :)
 

flashlight

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Thanks Tim and may you be right -- that it is the pipe --'cause that can be fixed; otherwise, it means there is a new spring or an old one that has changed trajectory under the house, and that can't be fixed.
That's one point in a three-point conflict with the town and its pipes and installations on my property. I won't win all 3 points, that's a given, even if I go to administrative court (where my chances are slim). Towns have the ultimate ace up their sleeve to get rid of the problem and make my life hell if they choose: public interest expropriation. I've been willing and wanting to sit down and solve this calmy since january. I've been alone at the table.
@Lisa
The reading might even turn out to have layers - describing the water problem AND telling you to relax.
Yes, well, it can tell me that daily, sometimes easier said than done :)
I'll post when I have new info!
 

Liselle

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@Lisa Yes, well, it can tell me that daily, sometimes easier said than done :)

Lol. I understand. The investigation is today or tomorrow, right? Fingers crossed.
 

flashlight

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Yup! I may not have the conclusions straight away, but it will be an interesting "session" to observe in any case. Keep crossing & thanks Lisa!
 

flashlight

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OK, there are 3 distinct legal parts to this story (public works on private property without title, which is not normal and represents a large loss in value of my property) and then the question of what is without a doubt responsible for the water damage to the built parts of the property.
- for my expert, the pipes which are in fact drains are responsible for the humidity in my cellar (of course, as you know, an expert for the opposing party could argue the reverse or negate it). I think we have more than enough proof that that is the cause.
- there are public pipes that are indeed illegally present under my land. No one now is disputing that.
- explorations of another main pipe were stopped because it is blocked by a large stone (rather boulder) that has clearly been there for a long time. This in a pipe whose legal status is in question (too long and largely irrelevant to bore you with local laws about streams v. town water systems). These investigations will need to be finished (the bolder is the cause of the flooding of my land earlier this year during hard rains), but before we need for the town to put on paper that even if to do requires tearing up my driveway, that will not automatically mean that that pipe becomes a private - not a town - responsibility. also that the cost of tearing up and restoring my driveway is theirs and theirs alone.
Waiting for the formal report and that letter. More to come.
Lots of unanswered questions. Lots of very delicate legal issues about the status and thus consequence of that effing main pipe. The town can always decide that it is in the public interest to expropriate me. That's their ultimate leverage over me on part of this.
I just stopped writing this post to ask "can I get this "stream" pipe qualified as the town's responsibility?" (which would be the best case scenario) and I got 62 UC. Oh how apt. I hate, just hate, 62. Sigh.. i guess that will be tough and not necessarily the best strategy....Time for a mellow dinner with a friend... I think we'll be dancing in court for a while over this....
 

Liselle

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Thanks for the update. I don't know what to make of the 62. I hope it's just too soon to tell and/or worry about it. I don't even know how to tell for sure whether the 62 is your reading or the town's reading (much like the 43.3 > 58).

Any new ideas about what the 24.2 > 19 reading may have meant?
 

flashlight

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Thanks for the update. I don't know what to make of the 62. I hope it's just too soon to tell and/or worry about it. I don't even know how to tell for sure whether the 62 is your reading or the town's reading (much like the 43.3 > 58).
My hunch is it is my reading. I've not a good relashionship with 62 and my question really targeted that particular pipe whose legal status is hotly debated.

new ideas about what the 24.2 > 19 reading may have meant?
Well come to think of it, that pipe is in fact an old drain with holes drilled through it to have the water infiltrate into the soil. With newer actual pipes connecting to it, it thus now exfiltrates water, which goes towards my wall that then acts like both a barrier and as paper towel. To me the description seems to fit...
 

Liselle

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Wall as paper towel...oh dear. :(

I can see the "returning" or "turning back" and "approaching". The water is going the wrong way, the pipe's function is "reversed" if I'm understanding correctly. Water "approaching" your wall.

(Still think the line text was telling you to take a breather while you had half a chance.)
 

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