What 44.3 refers to, 11???

[twilightshadow]

Regarding a particular endeavor I asked what, if anything, I needed to change, something I was doing wrong. I received 44.3. I then asked for an image of what in me 44.3 referred to, the evil element or petty desire and got 11 unchanging. I was stumped, peace as the element that needs changing, what??? Then I read something Jeff said in a thread where someone else got 11 at a time when they were not feeling particularly peaceful. He referred to peace as sometimes being a time of not doing anything, not changing or growing. Looking at it that way, coupled with the fact that 44.3 is an evil element you are prevented from interacting with, makes a certain kind of sense. My life is anything but peaceful, so maybe it is letting me know that there is a purpose to the unrest in my life, that having peace would actually make me complacent or rob me of self development that's needed. What do you guys think? Does that make sense to you? Is there anything else you see that I missed? 44 is one I rarely get so am not as familiar with. Does it always refer to something sexual or can line 3 refer to any undesirable element?

 

[meng]

Does it always refer to something sexual or can line 3 refer to any undesirable element?

No, it can refer to anything which wants its way in spite of circumstances. It's not always evil, and its energy can be transmuted to creative power, in some cases. In your case, line 3 changes to h6, conflict or contention. This thing you're talking about puts you at odds with yourself or someone else, and that makes moving in your way difficult. Meanwhile you appear to torture yourself over it, laying on the guilt.

11 has a symbiotic relationship with itself. The strong is below, and moves upward, while the open is above, and gravitates downward. There is a union of wills, quite opposite that of conflict. Disputes are settled peaceably, and the work continues on productively - this is important to prevent stalling out to a stand still or decay.

 

[ginnie]

In a conflict, someone feels very confident that he is right. He feels that if there is a problem, the problem is that the other person doesn't agree with him.

#44.3 implies, to me, that you are not to blame for this trouble but have been injured or hampered by it. The auspice is that you will get along somehow, despite these troubles, in the translation I am consulting.

Hexagram 11 unmoving. I have always taken this to be a very auspicious response. Since you feel troubled, Yi might be saying: "Be peaceful . . ." or "Peace be with you." I often think Yi has responded to me this way.

I mean, if in interpreting the hexagrams we make a mistake and think Yi is saying that we are the evil element or we are causing all this trouble, but in fact we are not the source of the trouble, then I think Yi can respond with: "Peace, child."

Seems to me, since your primary moving line was 44.3, that you are sort of stuck in the trouble rather than the cause of it. You might need the help of someone else to extricate yourself.

 

[bradford]

It refers to getting your ass flayed by the woman to whom you've given too much power, or by what that image symbolizes anyway. In reading a line people tend to forget the overarching symbolism of the Gua as a whole. The Yi lays funny traps for folks who do this.

 

[meng]

In reading a line people tend to forget the overarching symbolism of the Gua as a whole. The Yi lays funny traps for folks who do this.

Or, they don't forget, they just understand it differently than you do. Your demonizing of 44 always mystifies me, especially considering your statements that no Gua is inherently good or evil. Ah, well.

 

[bradford]

Or, they don't forget, they just understand it differently than you do. Your demonizing of 44 always mystifies me, especially considering your statements that no Gua is inherently good or evil. Ah, well.

Actually I'm seeing a great deal of humor in the image. Always have. You missed that.

 

[philish]

Yeah, I'll never forget Bradford's "cute nurse". Quite the image.

 

[meng]

Actually I'm seeing a great deal of humor in the image. Always have. You missed that.

I guess I do. Everything I've ever heard/read you mention about 44 here has seemed really hostile.

 

[meng]

Brad, you know if I didn't respect your Yi perspectives so much, I wouldn't even mention it. It's been a puzzlement is all. No biggie.

 

[bradford]

I guess I do. Everything I've ever heard/read you mention about 44 here has seemed really hostile.

In this Gua I have primarily been hostile to the common misunderstanding that reads nu zhuang as a powerful or liberated woman, an interpretation that encourages people to ignore the warnings against dissipation and hasty surrender. A powerful women would read zhuang nu, not nu zhuang. I love witches and otherwise empowered women, but they are not being referred to in 44.
As to the images themselves, they are supposed to be exaggerated here and a little hyperbolic for literary and emotional effect. A better example of this device is Gua 47, the most consistently bleak and dismal set of lines in the Yi. But these are meant as a parody of the needlessly woebegone. They are meant to cheer us up by showing us how silly this behavior is. In 44 they make a boogeywoman of the temptress or seductress, but it's lighthearted and, importantly, it's really just a metaphor for the thing that can undo us. No big mystery there why the symbol is woman. And even as a symbol she's lots of fun to play with.
As to 44.3, I think there is a clue to the skinned rump in the other line with this image - 43.4. Here the subject was advised to calmly indict his abhorrent and abominable thing with a calm appeal at the royal court. He wasn't supposed to chase it into a corner and battle to the death with it. So he really deserves to lose his ass. Better therefore that he stop thinking of himself as a predator and let himself be led like a sheep. But even now, if he hears this, he won't believe it.

 

[meng]

Gotcha. Thanks for the explanation.

Really funny that you mention the boogeywoman because I almost half jokingly referred to your view of 44 as the boogeyman. Of course boogeywoman is much more appropriate.

But I do understand your view more clearly now.

 

[twilightshadow]

This is why this hex is so confusing for me. Ive seen it called Coming to Meet, Liason, and Coupling and Lise calls it Heir. Ive always taken it to be about sex or seduction or at least something akin to that. Wilhelm doesn't describe a powerful woman but a woman who obtains power by surrendering herself. The woman seduces the man into an undesirable situation. He goes on to say "The inferior man rises only because the superior man does not regard him as dangerous and so lends him power." Reading that Ive always taken it to mean being drawn into something that on the surface appears innocuous but is actually dangerous, with the image being a young seemingly innocent woman seducing a powerful man. An extreme example would be an elderly gentleman asking for help because his car won't start, but under his coat he hides a rope and chloroform. Or less extreme, something like Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky. But from the discussion here, it seems it is not that dire. So where did Wilhelm make the mistake in his translation? I know from reading many of the discussions here that though he is widely regarded as the definitive translation, he did make mistakes that distort the meanings of some hexes. I do use other interpretations, but none of them offered any greater clarification. I have noticed that many, including Wilhelm, seem to have a religious based moral tone that seems more akin to Christian values than what I know of the ancient Chinese.

For line 3 Wilhelm refers to the evil element, Tuck Chang refers to a crisis that is stern and cruel, another refers to an inner weakness or petty desire, and Karcher uses danger and angry memories. In looking at the different interpretations they all seem to refer to something negative that could influence you or that you want to follow, but you are prevented from it. I depend mostly on interpretations because my understanding is rudimentary. I dont really understand too much about the gua stuff. I just read the judgement and image along with the lines if any. And I wasn't taking this as something that was my fault exactly, just something that might need avoiding or changing. We all have aspects to our character that can affect a situation negatively, and thats more what I was asking about.

Interesting comments all, thank you, has given more to ponder. Any other ideas about 11. I think if Yi was saying there wasn't anything I would not have received line 3 to begin with and Yi would have followed with something more definitive as there are several lines that refer to no fault. I know some people see their answers as sometimes turning the question back on them or commenting on other things. As that would just be confusing to me and lead me to misinterpret even more than I do, Yi and I have an agreement that it always answers my question directly, or at least as much as it is able. Sometimes I don't ask the right question, but it has a way of letting me know that too. Hex 4 is often not an answer, just a smack in the head

 

[ginnie]

#44 Sparking Endless Talk: How True!

In 44 they make a boogeywoman of the temptress or seductress, but it's lighthearted and, importantly, it's really just a metaphor for the thing that can undo us. No big mystery there why the symbol is woman. And even as a symbol she's lots of fun to play with.

If I have flayed flanks, why does it follow that my condition was brought about by a woman?

Doesn't the thing that can undo me have more to do with me, not anybody else?

 

[meng]

Ginnie, the female gender metaphor can be taken from the trigram Xun/Sun, as wind is the eldest of women born of heaven and earth. She is also the most authoritative thereby (the seal carrier), and this is where the division between "strong woman" and "man flayer" perceptions and judgments occurs. Also, as a hexagram structure, the yin/open line enters from below. Then, as two trigrams, she (wind) goes up to meet (confront, entice, win, subdue) heaven (father), which is a bold move, to say the very least.

 

[meng]

But what does all that amount to in practical terms? For me it usually indicates a bitchy, selfish mood or attitude, mine or someone I'll be confronted by. It may also be accompanied by a sense of entitlement.

Nevertheless, without any of those things, without some 'fish in the tank', life becomes sterile and dies. It's a question of how to tame or manage those powerful emotions and influences, how to put them to good use, not how to destroy them.