What am I being told about a friendship?

[em ching]

There is a guy I know who I felt I had an immediate connection with - ease in communication (which is fairly rare for me) able to be myself with him and things in common. There was a brief romance which fell through because he wasn't over his ex etc but we remained friends, I didn't want to lose someone who I was able to talk to!

Anyway didn't see him for a while, then recently came back into proximity with him - and I asked about a week ago - what will become of my move here - and got 13 Fellowship with men to 44 Coming to meet. That came true as we spoke quite intimately again etc, although as I was at a low ebb and I was less articulate and confident and not as comfortable with him as before which may have changed things.. Anyway he has now left and is going travelling etc and said we should meet up when back.

Now I don't think there's a proper romantic attraction here, I feel I moved on from those ideas a while ago, but I keep thinking about him now which is annoying and I think it's because I would like to retain contact with him as he's interesting and I want to keep the connection alive, but I'm not sure if I was at my best last time we spoke and that perhaps he's not that bothered, as I fear I may have said some dull things due to recent 'brain fog', and that maybe the friendship means more to me than it does to him.

So I asked a phew q's;

What will become of this relationship:
32.4,5 Duration to 48 The well
This seems encouraging but I don't really understand the meaning of the Well applied to relationships?

Since he's left I have also sent a couple of messages and maybe have come across now as too eager, and perhaps he thinks I'm reading more into the friendship. He replied to one but not to another which makes me think perhaps he doesn't want to encourage it, so I asked:

What was his response to the messages?
53.6 Gradual progress to 39 Obstruction
Is this saying he is keeping a reserve and is not too enthusiastic about retaining communications or that he is physically obstructed and can't reply at the mo?

I then asked were the messages too much/ have I put him off in some way?
5.1 Waiting to 48 The well
Which speaks for itself with regards to perhaps needing more patience for a reply but again not sure about The well?

Finally, I asked my worst thought: Has he has lost interest in me/ in hindsight realised that he doesn't particularly want me as a friend (in light of our last encounter though we talked a lot I was not quite myself and was perhaps a bit difficult and too honest about certain things) and got:
40.4,5,6 Delieverance to 59 Dispersion
(Less encouraging)

What do you think?
I hope it isn't a case of we have learnt all we can from eachother and the friendship has nowhere further to go?
I think I'm probably over thinking this - but I'd be intereseted to hear interpretations of my answers - especially The Well as it came up a couple of times...


Thanks

 

[diamanda]

Hi em ching,

I'll try to read all your answers, and attempt a conclusion after that.

what will become of my move here
13 - try to hang out with as many people as you can
13:1 - try to meet new people, openly, freely
13:2 - do not only hang out with 'people in the clan'
44 - a bad element is re-entering, someone is meeting you with bad intentions

What will become of this relationship
32 - You are still on the same course you were before, you haven't moved on
32: 4 - really sorry to say this em ching, but 'no game'... i really hate to have
to say this, but the answer says there's nothing really there... i do hope im wrong.
32:5 - you have been loyal to him, but all he thinks about is 'his duty' his own agenda..
48 - Look into your own heart. What is it that you're really looking for?
Remember what you're really, truly, after. Does he look like he's got it?
Remember your own dreams, remember what your heart truly wants. Pursue that!

What was his response to the messages?
53:6 - i'll really hazard this one, but was he in flight? is there a chance he
didn't get the message just because he was on a flight...? it so much sounds
like it to me... (not very spitirtual, i know, but it really sounds like it). If he
was in a flight, then he was definitely obstructed and couldn't answer!

were the messages too much/ have I put him off in some way?
5 - Wait
5:1 - Wait and don't worry
48 - i have no idea lol But really now, from the way you sound, you really
don't sound like a rude, or nasty, or bad person, you sound very dignified
and very sweet and polite, so i just can't imagine it at all that your messages
would 'have been too much'. You definitely don't sound like an overbearing
person at all! 48's main message is 'look into your heart'. And the secondary
meaning is, you know your heart is good. You DO know this. So don't stay
on the surface, look deeper into your heart. You know you are not to blame here.

Has he has lost interest in me/
The answer is this one is so clear!
40 means 'don't be silly' and 59 means 'disperse this thought'.
40 - completely forget this notion!
40:4 - he is not what you're looking for! he was, for a bit, but not really.
40:5 - remember what you truly want! try to see, he's not what you want.
40:6 - write down all you want and see how he compares. Prepare all the 'weapons'
you have in your possession, and hit a fatal blow to a fossilised idea which is
keeping you away from your own progress.
59 - disperse this thought. Do away with this thought! this is not relevant.

The issue is not if he wants you... he has his own sadness with his ex to deal
with. The fact alone that he's going away, is very indicative that he's really
feeling down, perhaps betrayed, perhaps his heart still feels raw and slayed
upon. His actions speak of great torment. In this state, no-one can be his
own self. All one wants is to soothe the pain. I'm not saying this to tell you,
oh, yeah, go on and make his day. Im only saying this to explain, it's not
your fault, don't blame yourself, don't feel inadequate, don't feel you're not
good enough etc. Don't feel 'you were too much', or you were 'too down', or
anything. It's not you. Have you ever been in his state of mind? Sadly i have
(and not just once), and i believe most people with an honest heart have.
Remember what it feels like... it feels numb, and like a black cloud is all
over you at all times. You can see nothing, and you only want to lift the pain,
even for a short while. It's not a nice state to be in, it's not clear, and it's
definitely not a position to start a new relationship from... Whoever you meet
at that stage, even if they're the best person in the world... not only you can't
'see' them... but even later on, when you are over the pain, you still can't 'see'
them, because you've associated them with that incident and pain. They'll
always, subconsioucly, remind you of that rotten stage, and you just can't
really see them, and judge them fairly.

All this is totally unfair of course. Life is so not fair at times. And i so
much understand how you feel, because i can see your longing, in between
your words, to feel close to someone. I so much feel for you. But this is
not what you're looking for, is it, i truly don't think so! You sound like a
person who's looking for a true heart connection, and much as you'd love
one, it's not your fault in this case, because the heart you want to connect
with is broken and in darkenss. It's not your fault!

On a more positive note! ask yourself - what is it YOUR heart is truly
after? and then ask the I Ching what you can do to get it??

my best wishes to you!

 

[em ching]

Diamanda that was amazing! Very insightful and relevant.
The below seems good advice because there's more people about and I have sinced relaxed more with them all I feel, rather than just one so I feel that I have developed there yes - so that has gradually come to be!

QUOTE what will become of my move here
13 - try to hang out with as many people as you can
13:1 - try to meet new people, openly, freely
13:2 - do not only hang out with 'people in the clan'
44 - a bad element is re-entering, someone is meeting you with bad intentions

This also struck a chord:

32:5 - you have been loyal to him, but all he thinks about is 'his duty' his own agenda..

I believe he's a good person but talks alot about himself really - not that it isn't interesting but still..

QUOTE Remember your own dreams, remember what your heart truly wants. Pursue that!

Definitely, I don't feel that anything more than friendship would work - perhaps were too similar in a negative aspect of ourselves, which may be comforting but could also exasperate it... which wouldn't help either of us..

QUOTE What was his response to the messages?
53:6 - i'll really hazard this one, but was he in flight? is there a chance he
didn't get the message just because he was on a flight...? it so much sounds
like it to me... (not very spitirtual, i know, but it really sounds like it). If he
was in a flight, then he was definitely obstructed and couldn't answer!

That could be a possibility! I find it amazing how some people are able to read hexagrams and apply them to real relevant practical realities! Have you read books?? Or just very experienced?

QUOTE 48's main message is 'look into your heart'. And the secondary
meaning is, you know your heart is good. You DO know this. So don't stay
on the surface, look deeper into your heart. You know you are not to blame here.
(Yes I am being irrationally self-critical about this, as always...

QUOTE 40:4 - he is not what you're looking for! he was, for a bit, but not really.

Sounds about right! He did boost my confidence - in that the connection made me feel that I wasn't alone in my, shall we say ahem, neuroses... but I hope that wasn't all he was for as I would like to retain some sort of contact!

QUOTE His actions speak of great torment. In this state, no-one can be his
own self. All one wants is to soothe the pain....
Remember what it feels like... it feels numb, and like a black cloud is all
over you at all times. You can see nothing, and you only want to lift the pain,
even for a short while...

Wow! You got that from my saying he wasn't over his ex/ off travelling?
He has been on a seemingly extreme self-destruct/ depressed mode the whole time I've known him.. which is really sad..

QUOTE.. but even later on, when you are over the pain, you still can't 'see'
them, because you've associated them with that incident and pain. They'll
always, subconsioucly, remind you of that rotten stage, and you just can't
really see them, and judge them fairly.

Definitely - if a guy can only talk of his ex then Ahem Alarm bells!!

QUOTE You sound like a person who's looking for a true heart connection, and much as you'd love one, it's not your fault in this case, because the heart you want to connect
with is broken and in darkenss.

He does seem broken and in darkness in many ways - which is a waste but hopefully he'll overcome it - again I'm amazed at your insightfulness about this person! Which hex made you feel that he was in torment in particular? Or was it general from all the answers?

Thanks a lot Diamanda - very helpful - Talking about something and sharing a problem does indeed halve the problem and this has been a great nudge for me to move on We are lucky that we have access to this help from each other, and from the inanimate object that is the i-ching! perhaps our connection to the universe.. or the collective subconscious? hmm...
Anyway I am very grateful to have it in my life :bows:
and I will ask that question too...

 

[diamanda]

What i guessed about him being in darkness and torment was
not in any of the hexagrams. Just some common sense. In my
experience, a man will very rarely talk about his ex to a new
girl, except if he is truly heart-broken. And the fact that he
wants to get away as well. Of course this is only a guess. I've
also heard of cases in which a guy just uses this excuse, to
appear sensitive, while at the same time he doesn't give a damn
about anyone else except his own self. But, let's give him the
benefit of the doubt and go by what he said, and did.

In any case, i really don't think any of this was your fault at all.
The I Ching would have told you off otherwise
And i'll second what you said, im so very grateful too that it exists!
Although, like you, i don't know how it works; i don't even want to guess.
It's enough for me to know that it does!

 

[em ching]

Hello,

Well not 100% sure if he's genuine - and I would like him to be as I would like him as a friend - but I'm still unsure.. it has been bugging me as I basically want to see the good but there are others who are dubious..

So I asked 'Is he a good person?'
and got 61.4,5,6 Inner Truth to 54 The Marrying Maiden.

amazingly I read somehwere that if you get the marrying maiden when asking about a relationship it usually means that another person is involved, which is true if I were asking about him romantically as I know he loves someone else!

But what does this reading say in relation to my question?

Thanks

 

[diamanda]

He sounds very self-absorbed, and very egocentric, and ready to take
advantage of other people. The way i see the answer,
61:4 - he goes his own way and does not care what anyone else thinks
61:5 - he keeps the truth in his heart, doesn't let on. perhaps still linked to his ex.
61:6 - his words are empty, and will not be backed up by any action.
54 - this does not necessarily mean that there is another woman currently in
his life, but as you said, it's probably his ex. 54 means you come second (or
even further down his priority line). He does not have feelings for you (and
by the sound of it for anyone else). He's after a 'concubine', a rebound
relationship, someone secondary, someone to 'serve' him, someone
unimportant - whose only use is for his own benefit - and that person will
remain secondary and unimportant.

All this, in relation to your question, says: this is how he is. Do you
consider this a good enough criterion, by which to choose a friend?

 

[em ching]

He sounds very self-absorbed, and very egocentric, and ready to take
advantage of other people. The way i see the answer,

Everything you said there could be pretty accurate... if you met him you might call him self-absorbed, but he does have good qualities and not wholly uninterested in others I don't think - a level of concern and care beneath it all but you can never be really sure about a person I guess - actions speaks louder than words...

QUOTE All this, in relation to your question, says: this is how he is. Do you
consider this a good enough criterion, by which to choose a friend?

That's sad... do you think that's saying this is who he is now - or that it is deeply ingrained/ innate and that's it? People can change and start to see the good again can't they? Or maybe those who have seen too much darkness get further and further away from the positive...

Well, I will see what he does about keeping up the connection anyway...

Thanks very much!
Very insightful :bows:

 

[em ching]

Hi,

I could use one final bit of help interpreting here on one more question I asked on the topic - I asked :

Does he genuinely wish to be my friend or was he just bluffing?
(The reason I am so concerned about this is because I was quite honest with him about certain things and it meant a lot to find someone that I felt understood me on that level and I trusted that)

I got 44 Unchanging - hmmm - strongly telling me there this is an issue between two individuals! (I do feel we differ greatly on some aspects of our outlook on life)

Does Coming to Meet mean that he is going to be someone in my life to keep in contact with, or does it mean that he is not genuine and can't particularly be counted on as a friend?

Thanks!

 

[em ching]

Well I guess Coming to Meet doesn't always have to be negative...
maybe I'm being too suspicious.. of a simple meeting of minds which should precipitate a continued friendship? taking things too seriously as always maybe...

I read this about 44 which spoke to me:

Gathering Together follows 44. Coming to Meet. I guess the idea is that when creatures Meet one another, like minds will Gather Together. Interesting that 44 talks about the unconcious. I'm visualizing this big collage mixer where all the freshmans who don't know anybody, don't even know themselves, are supposed to come and sort of hang together and as you bump into people you find kindred spirits and you find about parts of yourself you were unconcious of before, because now you're bumping into people who are all having the same issues so you come to realize what you thought was your own dirty little secret ("My family is nuts!") is a secret shared by just about everyone else in the room. So 44 - the Unconcious Urges - lead us to meet up with others with similar scenarios.