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What do I need to know about my unwillingness to get vaccinated against Covid-19? 55.1.2 to 32

bologna_tendra

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I don't want to get the vaccination; no doing so for the moment does not carry for me any social penalty. It appears the time may arrive in the not-too distant future when there is a penalty to be paid, perhaps employment etc. I asked this question to get Yi's input on the situation. In line 1 Blofeld speaks of misfortune if a certain period of time is exceeded. Perhaps changing line 2 indicates to hold to my position in face of problems. Interested to hear any thoughts on this.
 

stuart

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Seems positive, Both lines have two important people trying to benefit everyone, but being obstructed by others powers. I am looking at the bigger picture, and the organisations behind everything. Is there a struggle between various political, social powers, which will at some time in the future result in huge changes for everyone. Maybe it suggest waiting, until we are all more informed, but what damage can that do to individual persons or business in general. When this ends, there will be winners and losers no doubt, but hopefully a better world, but don't hold your breath.
 

dfreed

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I asked this question: What do I need to know about my unwillingness to get vaccinated against Covid-19?

55.1.2 to 32
Summary: how you are now seeing this is not at all clear and does not provide you with any long-term safety. You need to take a more broad, long-term view of this situation in order to act effectively (or correctly).

My thoughts: in your query, the lower trigram (3-line figure) of Hex. 55 is Fire, with two moving lines. This indicates that you are not seeing this situation clearly, and that your approach may not be offering you the protection or safety you think it is.

With the two moving lines (1,2) trigram Fire becomes trigram Wind (lower trigram of 32). It is suggesting that you should take a more broad and long-term approach or view (or look at) this situation: perhaps that a global pandemic is not just all about you and whatever 'social penalty' you think you're facing.

And that it's better to act from this more broad, gentle, long-term view of things.

Line 55.1 indicates that at least at first you're short-term, localized (close to home) way of seeing this situation will work - in the short-term.

With Line 55.2, we are told that we can 'see', even in the dark(ness): maybe you'll start to see ways that your attitude / approach restricts you - such as the 'risk of travel'; or, you may start to see that this situation is not all about you and your 'social penalites' - that we may all need to give up something (like our so-called 'freedoms' or our knee-jerk reaction to 'social penalties') in order to become more free - like becoming more free from a global pandemic.

And this leads to an approach to COVID-19 that is more Enduring and Lasting (both names for Hex. 32)

Regards, D
 
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my_key

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What do I need to know about my unwillingness to get vaccinated against Covid-19? 55.1.2 to 32

Hex 55 meaning ' there are many previous grounds for sorrow'
Hex 32 meaning ' lasting'

You need to know that there is a long enduring reason why you are unwilling to be vaccinated based around your past life experiences.

Nuclear 28 indicates that the root of this tension in you can be seen as a trial where you are encouraged to stand in your power: to stand up for what you believe in.


Hex 55: You'll see clearer how to 'get your armies marching'.

55.1 - You have something important to learn about yourself from how you address this matter.
55.2 - With these new truths tucked up you sleeve you'll be better able to walk tall in the world.

Hex 32: You will reap what you sow, depending on the new truths and boundaries you establish.

...or it may be nothing like that at all for you.

Good Luck.
 

dfreed

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Hex 55 meaning ' there are many previous grounds for sorrow'
My_Key: I'm curious where you get this meaning from for Hex. 55?

The trigrams for 55 are Flame below Thunder, and the text (judgement) is: (Sacrifice) The king is present. Do not grieve. Appropriate for the middle of the day. (Rutt)

But I'm not getting 'many previous grounds for sorrow' from that?

Best, D
 

my_key

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But I'm not getting 'many previous grounds for sorrow' from that?
My dear old friend Karcher is the source of this insight into the hexagram meaning.
Hilary says " Abundance has many causes" and further comments " feeling the weight of everything up to this point".

Rutt also comments Appendix 10 Wings (p455) 'Feng 55 is much hindered'

It all works for me as giving the same kind of meaning.

Take Care.
 

dfreed

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My dear old friend Karcher is the source of this insight into the hexagram meaning.
So, my immediate question is, is Karcher really an old friend (in the flesh), or are you using this in the more abstract sense - that you find his translation to be a 'friendly' one?

Besides that, I'm still not getting the connection between Hex. 55 and 'previous grounds for sorrow' ...

Karcher calls 55 'Abounding / Receiving the Mandate' and he gives us many words and their associated meanings to describe 55: plenty, rich, generous ....

Your quote from Rutt is only his translation of Wing 10, and not his comments or commentary of what 55 means or is about.

Actually (and not counting his Wings translation), Rutt doesn't give commentary for the hexagrams and lines; however, in his Translation Notes, he says: "feng means abundant and plenty ... and (is the) name of the Zhou royal city .... (p349)"

Rutt's text for 55 is,
"The king is present. Do not grieve.
Appropriate for the middle of the day."


If I see any 'sorrow' at all in this, I see it more along the lines of what the Buddha taught: that there is suffering and the causes of suffering (sorrow, perhaps being trapped by our past karma) - but because we now have more knowledge (the king) and more clarity (the sun at mid-day) this leads to the end of suffering (or sorrow).

You need to know that there is a long enduring reason why you are unwilling to be vaccinated based around your past life experiences.

What past life experiences might this be? That perhaps in a previous life he was vaccinated against smallpox, but the vaccination didn't work, and he got smallpox anyway?

If so, I'd suggest another interpretation (as I noted above): that with the 'king present' and it now being mid-day, we now have much more knowledge and clarity about how vaccines work - and perhaps the goal here is to get pass our old, outdated, 'past life' thinking, which is holding us back, and not letting us see the current situation clearly.

Otherwise, it seems we can get stuck in 'Eeyore-ish', victim-like thinking: that because something happened in a past life (or even early in this same life) we should therefore always stay stuck in this same sorrowful place.

D
 
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my_key

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Hi David
I'm not looking to convince you of anything, just showing you where I have gained some insight. Your interpretation of understanding the roots of our attitudes towards things as a key part to this situation and I can see this aligns well with the essence of what I have written.

Karcher, as you know, is one of my go-to translations and I can wear his words like a comfortable pair of slippers. Never met the guy though! Check out 'Total I Ching' p384 for his meaning for Abounding.

Rutt, as you say makes no comment on any of the hexagrams other than in his choice for words in his frugal translation and I have found his naming of them to speak volumes, especially where they differ from other 'traditional' sources. Feng 55 he names as 'thick'. His themed translation includes 'thick is the screen'; 'thick are the pennons' and 'thick is the roof' - all indications that the thickness is a hinderance to something being revealed / seen. In line 5 he gives 'Though hinderance comes; none will be glum - auspicious' so he has found a reason to connect with the 10 wings meaning even if he hasn't quoted it explicitly elsewhere in his text.

The 'thickness' in the other 4 lines for me alludes to trying to stir a spoon in a jar of thick mollasses - it's very nature makes movement difficult to overcome but once the essence of the molasses warms to the situation the spoon is able to go easier in the flow.

When the King is Present in your life all things will go with the flow and swimmingly well. What stops the king from being present? Well maybe it's nothing more than 'many previous grounds for sorrow'.

When I wrote about the 'past life experiences' this was nothing to do with vaccination for small pox (as I'm sure you are aware) but more aligned with (using your analogy) the suffering in this life or indeed past-life karma that is now fuelling 'the unwillingness'. The nuclear hex 26 holds the creative tension for change in the situation that will give bologna tendra opportunity to address the things that are holding him back: to better see what is behind his unwillingness.

Using Rutt
55.1 - Meeting the mistress of the house, For a ten-day week, Leaving is receiving - no misfortune
55.3 - Thick are the pennons; At noon faint light is made; Breaking the right arm - no misfortune

I'd paraphrase this as:
Don't rush through what you are going through. When you eventually see through to the faint light that is shining behind the light-hindering pennants, realise that you'll have to face some difficulties. However, rest assured you are on the right track.

Interestingly Rutt translates Hex 32 heng as 'fixing'. So the reading could be speaking of 'The fixing of that which is thick (stuck/unmoving/stagnant - take your pick)'.

The focus of the response, which ever translation is used, is, for me, set on the unwillingness and what lies behind it and not on the unwillingness to be vaccinated.
...or it may be nothing like that at all.

Different words and different perspectives however this all still works well for me.

Take care.
 
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dfreed

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Check out 'Total I Ching' p384 for his meaning for Abounding.

So you understand where I'm coming from:

I don't usually spend much time with people's commentaries, but looking at Karcher, on this same page he says of the 55/56 pair: 'The new King receives the Mandate ....' and he also says, 'Abounding means there were many previous grounds (past tenses) for sorrow ....'

(Rutt's) ... translation includes 'thick is the screen'; 'thick are the pennons' and 'thick is the roof' - all indications that the thickness is a hinderance to something being revealed / seen.

In his translation notes Rutt says, 'An eclipse of the sun ... might occasion such oracles .... (And) the whole set may ... convey two (or multiple) levels of meaning ....'

The lines show different 'thick screens' (an eclipse, banners, a roof) dimming the sun (sometimes at mid-day), but four of these five lines (including the 2nd line) indicate that the situation or outcome is auspicous, is without misfortune, and that in this darkness we are 'meeting the master'.

So, with these positive omens, perhaps we're using the darkness to our advantage, and that even in the darkness we can see and accomplish good stuff, and even overcome sorrow or past or past-life (past tense) karma.

In line 5 he gives 'Though hinderance comes; none will be glum - auspicious' so he has found a reason to connect with the 10 wings meaning even if he hasn't quoted it explicitly elsewhere in his text.

I don't think Rutt was looking for a 'reason' to connect 55 to a verse in the Tenth Wing. In all the hexagrams there are favorable and unfavorable words and lines, so to pick one and say, 'see, this is what the whole hexagram means' (because it reminds me of something from the Tenth Wing) doesn't carry much weight with me.

Besides, in this reading Bologna_Tendra didn't get line 5, so there is even less connection to some sense of unresolved sorrow or clingering / hindering darkness.

Also, Wings 1 and 2, Tuanzhuan, gives us an entirely different take on 55 (sans hinderances or hindering):

"Feng: 'great'. Bright and moving make Feng (which brings to mind 55's trigrams Fire and Thunder). The king is present: the honor is great. Do not grieve: appropriate for the middle of the day; appropriately shinning over all under heaven ...."

(And for me, even though this Wing statement supports my point, overall I think these sorts of contrary meanings we find in the Wings means I take them with a huge grain of salt!)


And ...
... we can think of all our actions, feelings or thoughts as being ruled by karma, or something from our past .... But ....???

Does this then mean that just because someone is not very smart, or is selfish, or because they read some dumb crap on the internet, or because they think Biden will infect them with nano-robots, or they think that COVID vaccines will change their DNA, ....

... that the Yi is saying, 'because you believe this crap you now have a good excuse to not take action (ex. get vaccinated), and there's nothing the King or anyone else can or should do about it!'

I'm not seeing nor interpreting it that way.

When the King is Present in your life all things will go with the flow and swimmingly well. What stops the king from being present? Well maybe it's nothing more than 'many previous grounds for sorrow'.

Or ... when things are not going so well, the King's presence can help overcome hinderances, and - who knows? - maybe even overcome one's 'previous grounds for sorrow'. (As Karcher said, these were previous grounds ... ) My sense of a good leader is that he or she can overcome adversity - or at least try - but they don't just give into it.

So therefore, Hex. 55 tells us, 'The king is present. Do not grieve!'

When I wrote about the 'past life experiences' this was nothing to do with vaccination for small pox (as I'm sure you are aware) but more aligned with (using your analogy) the suffering in this life or indeed past-life karma that is now fuelling 'the unwillingness'.

Actually, I thought this might in fact include 'past lives' (and / or this one). But again, regardless of the reasons, something 'fueling our unwillingness' doesn't mean that this is - or should be - a good reason, or serve as a convienent excuse to not overcome our ignorance and suffering.

Best, D
 
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my_key

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Hi David

As I have already said I am not looking to convince you of anything I've written as being a truth. It's an opinion that I have formed based on my understandings and experiences. I am not looking to defend them, Karcher, Rutt or anything else. I learn something new and my views change and these new views could equally be well off beam. Such is life.

It's great that you have different perspectives based on your own understandings and experiences as that adds to the richness of these threads.

Take care.
 

redoleander

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55.1 - Your unwillingness is related to the influence of an important person in your sphere (I believe you actually wouldn’t have to meet this person in ‘real life’ so to speak, but it would be the influence/opinion of someone you admire or believe.) There’s nothing wrong with this person or influence but you also might not be able to remain with the ‘safety’ of this influence forever. You’ll have to defend it or deal with it on your own too. (This also made me wonder if you have influenced someone else specifically on this matter, that could apply too. It would probably be someone specific and important.) could even be a higher power, a vision, a religious belief. The second line supports this too.

55.2 - you will need to be able to convince others about your decision and they will be skeptical. It will be tricky but not impossible. or, alternatively… You yourself need more time to be convinced; you still feel in the dark about this and it will take time for you to believe that this is ok for you to do.

55 > 32 tells me this is quite “big” for you and that I wouldn’t expect it to change lightly or easily but if we think about your lines it also means that a lot could depend on the influences around you.

55.1 could also simply mean “you’re on the right track” but then 55.2, to me, would mean it’s not necessarily easy to stay on that track. Again, this is personal, so it would mean “right track” for you, according to what you believe. There is definitely something here about holding onto your consent and integrity. I still wouldn’t assume that means getting the vaccine inherently compromises that integrity, if you have to or decide to in the future, but as far as your ‘unwillingness’ goes it’s about being allowed to trust in something you believe to be higher than the pressure to get it and hold to that/to explain why to others in spite of their skepticism.
 
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rosada

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55.1 Perhaps you have had experiences with people and ideas you trust that have encouraged you to think in terms of natural healing techniques and discouraged vaccinations. While these ideas were helpful to you for a time you are now wondering if these ideas are appropriate during this time.
55.2 You really don't know who to believe or trust.
32. You decide to ride out the pandemic without changing your position
-at least for now!
 
D

diamant

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Richard Wilhelm also refers to sorrow in relation to hexagram 55.
Book III, page 670 of the Penguin edition:

The hexagram is one of those referring to the mutability of all earthly things. This is most likely also the meaning of the saying "Abundance means many occasions", that is, occasions for care and sorrow.
 

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