What forces are at work in this relationship? Hex 55 >4.5 63

[myladythunder]

Hello community,

I'm in a relationship with X since 1.5 years.

The love is there, but I wonder if that's enough to keep the relationship together. We are two very different people and the reason we survived together this long is because we are both willing to make the effort. Still, I can't escape the feeling that my life has been put on hold since we are together.

We started our relationship around the same time that I made an arrangement to settle my debts. They were growing over my head,so I decided to take a drastic measure to settle my debt as soon and correct as possible.
I now have a 'mediator' a lawyer who controls my budget and negotiated a settlement with my creditors. Because of this my social life became very limited. It's been rough but I've accepted my current way of ife and I think I'm handling it okay for the moment.

X moved in with me around the same time I made this arrangement and naturally he had to adapt to my financial limitations. He comes from a sheltered home and had some trouble adapting to this new situation. We keep our finances separated because I want to settle my debt by myself.

Our problems:

We both work fulltime yet by the end of almost every month he has to lean on me for household money and the like.

He likes to go out and party during weekends, something I used to love doing as well, but this last year has changed me on so many levels, my priorities completely changed. I prefer a quiet evening at home over drinking in the local pub these days. Because I made the change from living in abundance to living a simple, sober life I parted ways with some of my friends and acquaintances. This has isolated me a bit. It was a conscious decision and one I do not regret, because many of these former contacts seem rather empty to me now, when I look back at them.

I think I'm not the same person I was a year ago and part of our problem is because I changed so radically. He has to deal with that and and most of the time he respects me for it. It also meant he had to evolve with me and there, I believe, lies our biggest problem. He experiences live on a completely different level then me and sometimes he tells me he feels he is not good enough for me.

We are working on our relationship and I find myself in need of advice again from the Yi.

I asked:
'What forces are at work in this relationship?' Receiving Hex 55>4.5 63

Hex 55 marks the peak of a cycle. Does this mean the relationship has reached it's peak? Is this as good as it gets? We've reached the top of our potential together and we have to accept our 'midday sun will wane'?

Moving line 4: This sentence from Lise got me thinking: 'Sometimes the very things which hold us back contain the energy which can help us to gather the strength to go on.'
Maybe this speaks of my debt holding us back? But my debts also 'forced' me in a new situation where I find new spiritual and emotional depth, making me in my eyes a richer person; ?

Moving line 5: (Lise) Recognition comes, bringing reward and praise.
I can gather strenght from my newfound awareness and influence X to grow with me?

Hex 63: If we stay vigilant and keep working, adapting and growing in our relationship we can foresee misfortune and guard against it.

Is this just wishful thinking folks? All input is welcome!

Warmest regards

Myladythunder

 

[Tohpol]

Is this just wishful thinking folks? All input is welcome!

Warmest regards

Myladythunder

My two cents:

55 isn't just about reaching peaks and things being on the wane although of course it can mean that. I've found 55 to be quite a deep, profound Hexagram in the sense that we often get stuck on the peak and trough symbolism while losing the deeper aspects. It's also about abundance, richness and complexity - even a sense of being overloaded in our thought patterns. So, it can often be about securing what you have and letting go - easing back and making that decision to do so - now.

Line 4: I see this as saying let things happen in there own time. You are stressing and causing unnecessary blockage. Let it roll and things will find there own rhythm. Ditch anxiety but keep discernment.

Line 5: Don't look too closely at things and don't be tempted to force things. There still seems to be some growing to do for your relationship so don't suffocate your own joy when and where you can find it. Let go and your differences will flow into each other and adapt accordingly.

63: Everything is in the right place for growth.

That's my take on it.

 

[ginnie]

This hexagram is about living in and enjoying the NOW. And that doesn't just mean a precious few minutes before everything turns dark, either. I think that's where a misconception has crept in.

The text says to not be sad. I have found that I'm usually sad when I get this hexagram, so the advice about sadness may even make me feel -- more sad. If this is what happened to you, too, then welcome to the club.

You were thinking that your relationship must be coming to its natural end (63) at this time, because you have outgrown it ...

... and it's all too much, just thinking about this, whether to continue, whether to try to end it ... whether it's still the right relationship for you ... given the aspects that have changed.

Yet, the 'toomuchness' may exist mainly in your own mind.

You've received really great lines, MyLadyThunder, which leads me to believe you have nothing to worry about. Really. Whenever you need to know something more about your changing situation, you will meet people who will help you.

 

[patro]

my one cent opinion is... he is the right man for you.
he is the one that are helping you in a dark time of your life.

the lines:
4. The curtain is so full that the Pole Star can be seen at midday. He meets his similar ruler. Good fortune!

5. Lines are coming, blessing and fame approach. Good fortune!
or
5. Recruit reliable and able helpers.

as you can see they are both talking about the situation.
the second are you the one that need help...
the forth is your partner

I don't want to say to much... but it seams that this relation will end in a marriage.
congratulation!
let me know any change

 

[icastes]

55 is a warning that selfish actions on the part of the parties will spell failure in love. But for marriage, it is quite good, if you want to go that way. Love and marriage in ancient China are two different things, and you can't mix up the two as marriage is not a vehicle of love necessarily. It is institution for dynastic, political, and economic reason. As for 63, it says that you can have success in love, but change will come if you delay your response. For marriage, it is auspicious.

Line four and five in 55 are very good for you. I would say that any incapacity you feel may be misleading you from someone who is quite good for you.

 

[gato]

the beginning of the end ?

 

[myladythunder]

My two cents:

55 isn't just about reaching peaks and things being on the wane although of course it can mean that. I've found 55 to be quite a deep, profound Hexagram in the sense that we often get stuck on the peak and trough symbolism while losing the deeper aspects. It's also about abundance, richness and complexity - even a sense of being overloaded in our thought patterns. So, it can often be about securing what you have and letting go - easing back and making that decision to do so - now.

Line 4: I see this as saying let things happen in there own time. You are stressing and causing unnecessary blockage. Let it roll and things will find there own rhythm. Ditch anxiety but keep discernment.

Line 5: Don't look too closely at things and don't be tempted to force things. There still seems to be some growing to do for your relationship so don't suffocate your own joy when and where you can find it. Let go and your differences will flow into each other and adapt accordingly.

63: Everything is in the right place for growth.

That's my take on it.

Hi Topal,

That sounds all very encouraging!

Your take on this rings true to me, it puts my mind at ease knowing there is still room for growth. Especially the part about my being stressed out is so true.
I read your post yesterday evening and it shed a new light on my feelings in this relationship. Later posts of other members seem to generally confirm your take on this reading. I think I can find the faith within myself again to choose 100% for this relationship.

The beautiful thing about the connection between me and X is that despite the fact that we are on a different level both spiritually and in life, we can still find a special peace and understanding between the 2 of us. To our friends we seem like an unlikely couple; Most of them even believed we wouldn't last a month. But here we are, still standing.

I am starting to appreciate the Yi more and more, it has been a beacon of light to me when all else seemed obscured. Also, the act of writing about my difficulties and my 'hunger for knowledge' has a therapeutic effect on me. When I read my own words later it helps me to put things in perspective. And most of all, all the advice and insights of the members of this forum is so inspirational and heartwarming. I'm absolutely positively enthralled

So thank you so much for your insight, Topal.

 

[myladythunder]

This hexagram is about living in and enjoying the NOW. And that doesn't just mean a precious few minutes before everything turns dark, either. I think that's where a misconception has crept in.

Yes, I get hex 55 much better now. I don't have any books on the yi -yet, I'm planning on buying one real soon- and what information I can find on this forum or Lises website serves as reference material for me at the moment. So please, if I don not get things quite right right away feel free to correct me I would welcome your insight very much!

The text says to not be sad. I have found that I'm usually sad when I get this hexagram, so the advice about sadness may even make me feel -- more sad. If this is what happened to you, too, then welcome to the club

.

Yes, I can completely relate about the 'sad' part Ginnie... I've been sad a lot lately. But it's a strange kind of sad, the feeling kind of catches me unawares and just as sudden the feeling is fleeting again. Then I notice something beautiful, like the setting sun behind the old chestnut tree in front of my apartment, and then I remember all the good things in life again and I find the straight to go once more. It's probably still a remnant of the depression I am getting out of

You were thinking that your relationship must be coming to its natural end (63) at this time, because you have outgrown it ... and it's all too much, just thinking about this, whether to continue, whether to try to end it ... whether it's still the right relationship for you ... given the aspects that have changed. Yet, the 'toomuchness' may exist mainly in your own mind.

That's a very accurate description of the doubts that's been haunting me for several months now.

You've received really great lines, MyLadyThunder, which leads me to believe you have nothing to worry about. Really. Whenever you need to know something more about your changing situation, you will meet people who will help you.

And so i did... right here on this forum

Thanks again Ginnie!

 

[myladythunder]

my one cent opinion is... he is the right man for you.
he is the one that are helping you in a dark time of your life.

Thank you for reminding me Patro He certainly has his flaws but your words are so true. He's been steady as a rock for me through some very dark times indeed.

I don't want to say to much... but it seams that this relation will end in a marriage.
congratulation!
let me know any change

I don't know about that one Patro

I've been single for over 7 years before i met X. The mere fact that I'm in a relationship is a really big thing for me. Opening my heart was and is very challenging for me. But... If we ever get there I promise I'll let you know!

 

[myladythunder]

55 is a warning that selfish actions on the part of the parties will spell failure in love. But for marriage, it is quite good, if you want to go that way. Love and marriage in ancient China are two different things, and you can't mix up the two as marriage is not a vehicle of love necessarily. It is institution for dynastic, political, and economic reason. As for 63, it says that you can have success in love, but change will come if you delay your response. For marriage, it is auspicious.

Line four and five in 55 are very good for you. I would say that any incapacity you feel may be misleading you from someone who is quite good for you.

Well, I don't think we are ready for anything as big as marriage. He knows how I feel about him and I know how he feels about me. Maybe I do need to tell him more clearly what it is I need from him?

 

[myladythunder]

the beginning of the end ?

That was my take on it, originally. Now I'm not so sure anymore.

 

[heylise]

Yes, I get hex 55 much better now. I don't have any books on the yi -yet, I'm planning on buying one real soon-

Very soon (I hope) Hilary's I Ching will be published. The best one as far as I know! Her interpretations are based on lots of readings.

 

[charly]

That was my take on it, originally. Now I'm not so sure anymore.

Of course, NOT.

Give me a little of time and I will post you the chinese text with a rough literal translation and you will see by your own eyes.

You'r asking not only for the meanings of H.55 > H.63, you'r also asking for advice.


FIRST THE ORACLES:

Trust me, the following is prettyu literal:

H.55
EXHUBERANT (1) FEAST
KING BORROWS IT.
SUITABLE MIDDAY​

Exhuberance is the celebration of abundance. Kings have abundance, but, like all, borrowed. With suitable midday the oracle is saying you good to have clarity, good to understand it. All in our lives is borrowed, even kings have their goods borrowed, their capital towns are transitory. Good to know it.

55.4
EXHUBERANT THAT SHADE
MIDDAY SEEING STARS
MEETING WITH ONE'S WILD MASTER (2)
LUCKY​

Exhuberant in the night, seeing sars in the midday, of course, what happens in the night determines how one see things in the day, if you understand me. You'll find a something wild master, not a prince, but somebody that knows how to shoot arrows. The night will not last forever, neither the midday, only take the good of each cycle, you know how, you've already done it.

55.5
COMING SEAL (3)
HAVE TO CELEBRATE REPUTATION.
LUCKY​

A sign will come (an issue from the oracle), maybe a new chapter in your life.
Be loyal to yourself, make honor to your reputation. This part needs a commentary: H.55 is FIRST FIRE AND THEN THUNDER, what's your nickname? No casual. You'r a THUNDER, much fire and energy, make honor to yourname, don't despair.

H.63
ALREADY CROSSED, CELEBRATE [THE] LITTLE.
PROFITABLE OMEN.
AT THE BEGINING LUCKY, END FUZZY.
​

After completion said W/B. Do you understand ? There is no true END, things are no clear, that's all. And the omen is PROFITABLE.

h.63 is FIRE BELOW, WATER ABOVE.
Water can extinguish fire (women are stronger than men) but under adequate circumstances fire can do water boil. REmember that THUNDER is called THE AROUSING.

All oracles are fortunate, even more for true love (4).

IF YOU STILL NEED ADVICE I WILL POST IT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

Only that I need more accuracy about Mr. X, no matters what, every detail will be good. Did he moved to your home? Is he paying half the amount of the bills? Are you lending him money? What sort of things have you negatiated with him? If you escort him in the weekend party, who will pay ?

Meanwhile, don't expect he must chage following your changes. Don't try to do of him a double of yourself. Differences make things interesting. If both are willing to make the effort, good, if somebody is making more effort or even sacrifice is maybe time of fixing up some things.


Yours,

Charly


___________________________________
(1) ABUNDANCE, it was also the name of the first Zhou Capital, not an important town, but a little military post in the revolt against Shangs.
(2) Or Archer Master, say a good man for shooting arrows. The character that I render WILD depicts an archer or a barbarian foreigner.
(3) Or coming chapter (of a book), say another stage.
(4) If it is true love, don't worry, if not, true lowe will arrive to you, maybe fallen from the sky.

 

[myladythunder]

Of course, NOT.

Give me a little of time and I will post you the chinese text with a rough literal translation and you will see by your own eyes.

You'r asking not only for the meanings of H.55 > H.63, you'r also asking for advice.


FIRST THE ORACLES:

Trust me, the following is prettyu literal:

H.55
EXHUBERANT (1) FEAST
KING BORROWS IT.
SUITABLE MIDDAY​

Exhuberance is the celebration of abundance. Kings have abundance, but, like all, borrowed. With suitable midday the oracle is saying you good to have clarity, good to understand it. All in our lives is borrowed, even kings have their goods borrowed, their capital towns are transitory. Good to know it.

55.4
EXHUBERANT THAT SHADE
MIDDAY SEEING STARS
MEETING WITH ONE'S WILD MASTER (2)
LUCKY​

Exhuberant in the night, seeing sars in the midday, of course, what happens in the night determines how one see things in the day, if you understand me. You'll find a something wild master, not a prince, but somebody that knows how to shoot arrows. The night will not last forever, neither the midday, only take the good of each cycle, you know how, you've already done it.

55.5
COMING SEAL (3)
HAVE TO CELEBRATE REPUTATION.
LUCKY​

A sign will come (an issue from the oracle), maybe a new chapter in your life.
Be loyal to yourself, make honor to your reputation. This part needs a commentary: H.55 is FIRST FIRE AND THEN THUNDER, what's your nickname? No casual. You'r a THUNDER, much fire and energy, make honor to yourname, don't despair.

H.63
ALREADY CROSSED, CELEBRATE [THE] LITTLE.
PROFITABLE OMEN.
AT THE BEGINING LUCKY, END FUZZY.
​

After completion said W/B. Do you understand ? There is no true END, things are no clear, that's all. And the omen is PROFITABLE.

h.63 is FIRE BELOW, WATER ABOVE.
Water can extinguish fire (women are stronger than men) but under adequate circumstances fire can do water boil. REmember that THUNDER is called THE AROUSING.

All oracles are fortunate, even more for true love (4).

IF YOU STILL NEED ADVICE I WILL POST IT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

Only that I need more accuracy about Mr. X, no matters what, every detail will be good. Did he moved to your home? Is he paying half the amount of the bills? Are you lending him money? What sort of things have you negatiated with him? If you escort him in the weekend party, who will pay ?

Meanwhile, don't expect he must chage following your changes. Don't try to do of him a double of yourself. Differences make things interesting. If both are willing to make the effort, good, if somebody is making more effort or even sacrifice is maybe time of fixing up some things.


Yours,

Charly


___________________________________
(1) ABUNDANCE, it was also the name of the first Zhou Capital, not an important town, but a little military post in the revolt against Shangs.
(2) Or Archer Master, say a good man for shooting arrows. The character that I render WILD depicts an archer or a barbarian foreigner.
(3) Or coming chapter (of a book), say another stage.
(4) If it is true love, don't worry, if not, true lowe will arrive to you, maybe fallen from the sky.

Thank you for taking the time to break the oracle down for me, this provided me with a whole new insight on Hex 55. I find the Yi most fascinating and I love to delve deeper in it, it has so much to offer!

To explain our relationship in more detail I will describe the events that led up to our relationship. I think they are important to completely understand where we stand today as a couple.

Before I met X I was single for 7 years. I was a happy single, not really on the look out for a suitable partner. Of course there where times I would fret about my single status, but when I look back now I think I enjoyed my freedom most of the time.

Then something big happened in my life.
I was laying the foundation for a successful career at a staffing company and living very intense at the time. Circumstances at work started causing a lot of negative stress for me, which I couldn't deal with. In November 2009 I realized I had a burn-out and in January 2010 I resigned from my job as a consultant. Afterwards, I felt devastated. Because of my resignation I was without an income for 3 months. I didn't stop spending money however. Before I knew it I was in debt up to my ears.

I knew X some 2 years before we started dating, always meeting each other in the local pubs and bars. It turned out we had a passion in common, we both loved comics and Japanese manga art. It's certainly not a typical hobby for a girl and it's basically an interest most people (where we live anyway) don't relate to. So, the connection was there right away. In the beginning I never taught of him as a potential partner and as I said, I wasn't looking for one either.

In the summer of '09 he told me how he felt about me and I surprised myself by not brushing him off right away. You see, he is 2 years younger then me and, all tough he's 28 he can to act like he's 18. This boyish aspect always attracted me, he made me feel like a little girl, which I loved. But at the same time this behavior made me suspect he wasn't very mature to begin with.I think because of losing my job, the debt that followed and my burn out I was in very vulnerable place at the time. So I opened my heart and let him in.

He moved in with me way to soon, I think we where together less then one month. At first it was just the sleeping over and gradually, over time, it become more serious. We starting dating in July, in August he started sleeping over at my place on a daily base. In September we realized this was getting serious and by October he literally moved in with me. Of course in the beginning we lived on cloud 9... I for one tend to lose my head when I fall in love
As I said, he knew me as someone who loved going out, spending all-nighters in the local bars and pubs. I still love that, every once and a while, but at the time I was going through a transition and part of dealing with my circumstances for me was going all out and party the night away. When we started living together I found stability, something I hadn't felt in a very long time. So going out and dance the night away became less important to me. Around October we started having troubles. I realized he had some very expensive habits, he used to spend over half of his monthly income to partying.

When we go out together, he loves to treat me by the way. If he could, I think he would give me the world. This being his first time taking responsibility for paying the bills, helping out around the house and so on, I have to say he really tries his best. Actually, he's lousy at taking the initiative for doing menial tasks BUT he genuinely listens to me and whenever things get out of hand and he's always there to help me out. He came from a home where everything was given to him on a platter, so I really believe he made some significant progress. I'll admit it hasn't been an easy cooperation, but I honestly believe we'll get there eventually.

My 'budget controller' pays all the bills with my income. X pays halve of the household money to me monthly. This arrangement was something I demanded if he wanted this relationship to work out. You see, until April this year he didn't pay the bills, he just paid for food and leisure.

He still loves to go out, but he only goes on Fridays, not all weekend anymore. The rest of the weekends is for the 2 of us. He stopped spending all of his money on partying and despite his regular 'grumbling' about how unfair life can be I think he takes it rather well.

You might notice my tone has changed in this post in comparison to my original question. It has everything to do with this forum and people on it, for which I am very grateful.

I hope this gives you some clarification on the matter.

Yours,

Mladythunder

 

[charly]

Hi, Lady Thunder:

I will have no access to Internet during the weekend, but I will post as soon as possible.

Thanks for the information and for your confidence. I'm trying to help in the intepretation of the oracle, the advices are quite personal and only you can know if they fit to your own personal situation.

Only you can "divine".

I will work whit it and tell you.

Yours,

Charly

 

[ginnie]

I'm looking at the Whincup translation now. With line 4 Whincup says we have a canopy which is so huge that a lamp needs to be turned on at noon. It is a large, safe shelter.

'A powerful lord provides a shelter under which his subjects can display their talents.'

About line 5 moving Whincup says: 'His inner brilliance wins honor and praise. Auspicious.' The subject's talents are recognized and rewarded by his ruler. Line 5 is the place of the ruler.'

According to Whincup, therefore, this is a relationship in which the talents of someone are sheltered, protected and fostered.

I find this to be an interesting 'take' on the situation. When people are concerned about money, often money is not the real issue. The I Ching was formulated before the invention of coinage (money) in China. So it always turns out to be really interesting to see how Yi responds to questions like this.

Yi has answered that you are in a sheltering relationship -- and it could be that you are sheltering him at the same time that he is sheltering you -- in which your talents will be recognized and both moving lines are auspicious.

 

[charly]

Thunder Lady:

You are a passionate girl but something is making you worry. The most important requisites, love and will to hold the relation, as you said, are not in discussion.

Your partner is accepting some new rules and in some meassure he is changing his habits too. Of course, the core of personality will hardly change.

I believe that you are looking for a more serious relation with him, like the possibility of having children and so. a process that can go more quickly than inner transformations, or else, you have omitted some additional details.

Is he fond of women? Is he a gambler, an addict or a violent person?

Do you see some disbalancement in the sharing of bills and other costs?

You must be aware that you have some rights, general rights as a human being and special rights for being a woman.

And you have the right of doing your rights be respected. Nothing bad or interested, nothing incompatible with love or respect for one another. But also nothing to be resigned.

Maybe telling more details would be possitive for yourself and give us some stuff to work with.

Don't sacrifice love for any else, but neither sacrifice health or money for love. True love don't requires this.

All the best,


Charly

P.D.
Maybe I'm not too objective, I had some short-circuits with belge guys, but this is another story.
Ch.

 

[myladythunder]

Very soon (I hope) Hilary's I Ching will be published. The best one as far as I know! Her interpretations are based on lots of readings.

I'll be looking forward to it! Btw, I love your website! Whenever I do a reading I use it as a referral. Perhaps you can recommend some Dutch translations to me?

Thanks in advance!