What is the need of useing ancient values for modern interpertation?

[jerryd]

In interpertation from the ancient original writings by whom ever we almost always lose the truth of it's original propositions. I am wondering if individuals whom interpertate the Yi, such as my self, also commit errors of omission seeing only what I think to be important to the question. Can this be avoided through any form of checks and balances on my part before I finalize my reading?

 

[bradford_h]

How can you finalize the Changes?
If you are lucky, your interpretations
will still be changing fifty years on.

 

[candid]

Brad, thank you very much.

 

[candid]

Jerry,

It's an irony that I should credit the authentic and that Brad would credit constant change, bein' that he is, of all here, the most astute in matters of authenticity.

Your question is a good one, I think. The 'checks and balances' approach is important. It's pretty easy to let creative imagination (commonly called intuition) run the Yi amuck, and yet without that vital cognitive link the interpretation remains sterile and void of penetrable personal value, both to the interpreter and the inquirer. It takes knowledge, insight and imagination, all cooked in one pot, and the essential cognition to bring the elements together into a usable interpretation.

 

[jerryd]

Brad, Yes this I rerlize, interpertations will change for every reading of every new question even if the questions bring in the same set of Hex each and every time. My question may have sounded like a nieve one dut the fact of personal integrity for my self is on each and every reading. If there is no way to check the validity of what I think I know,, Then why place an effort at all. I see you and all here as mentors and a balance to my own method of checks in my moment.

Candid I will assume you agree with Brad, at a certain level but perhaps you saw a bit deeper into my logic here.

Thank you both very much for your insight, I have been taken to task for my incertion of cognition and called to task for applying intuitive flexing in the past, so I am still at a loss for solid conserative grounds for reading any esoteric Hex which I find to be a valid way to access complex questions.

 

[jerryd]

Practice makes the imperfect realize perfection is a lot like having your cake and eating it then wondering where it went....?? a euphorism from within.

 

[candid]

Jerry,

I don't believe it's possible to be entirely objective with an interpretation, nor is it possible to be 100% accurate 100% of the time; at least as far as anyone I've known.

Has it ever happened that you are asked to interpret a reading on a question which you have personally been deeply involved with? How is it possible not to project at least some value of your own struggle with the question into your interpretation for the other? It is part of what's swirling in your mind at the time you are processing the other's answer. A more interesting question might be: is that one reason you were given the question to struggle personally with in the first place, to be better equipped to provide the interpretation? Then there is also your answer to the inquirer that teaches you more about your own struggle with the same or related question. Who is the teacher and who is the student? I think it's safe to say that we are all students, and at least to some degree, we are all teachers. May the circle be unbroken, by and by.

It is the responsibility of an interpreter to connect with the oracle's origin, at least to the level of being able to support the answer through documentary evidence. But it doesn't end there. It begins there. How the evidence fits into the question at-hand: that requires imagination. But imagination can run away from the reality of the matter. To sew these together into an applicable fabric, which satisfies the inquirer's need to know, that is cognition.

The problem I have with the word ?intuition? is more than semantics. To most, intuition means something that comes from without, like: I?ve received a Devine message from God, or spirit guide, or angels, or the Sage. Ok, that is a possibility, and stranger things have happened. I personally believe though that this is not grounds to answer someone?s question responsibly. There may be inspirational value in this approach, but it?s not something that on this alone I would advise a life changing decision upon. But! imagination and inspiration provides the ignition to create a fabric(ation) of the circumstance in question, using the literal and alluded to images within the I Ching.

Rather than seeing it as coming from without, I believe that we are given a self-contained whole, and our own cognitive ability is able to creatively sew the imaginative with the literal into a clear answer. The Yi model reference I use for this in hex. 32. Thunder and wind perpetuate. It is self-contained and self-renewing. Also, 61 could not exist without this self-containment.

 

[candid]

Let me also tie my comment to 64.6, which is Yi's final statement.

"But imagination can run away from the reality of the matter."

There's drinking of wine
In genuine confidence. No blame.
But if one wets his head,
He loses it, in truth.

 

[pagan]

I think this is a great topic. I had this dicussion with my son yesterday. If you were an archeologist from the future and you had come upon some ancient American text from the year 2004 and lets say that the American culture is extinct and English no longer a spoken language. So a scholar is intepreting this statement: "the whole affair was pretty awful"

So the translator of this text says that it means that the whole affair was so beautiful (pretty) that the person beholding it was "awe struck". Then he comes upon another text document that says "it was awful pretty" and he determines that the two statements are interchangeable.

Then another person comes along and says "but in context, the statement 'pretty awful' seems to mean something totally different than 'awful pretty'." Furthermore, he says, awful can mean terrible and not 'full of awe'. So pretty awful means the situation was very bad and awful pretty means that the person was ugly in a pretty sort of way...

So then what?
P.

 

[bradford_h]

Jerry-
I was merely wishing you another 50 years of deepening comprehension. If you think you can reach your limits in less time than this, you are probably correct.
In 1977, when I wrote my first book on the Yi, after only ten years of study, I was about 90% there. Twenty seven years later, after studying the book in Chinese as well, as well as just about everything printed in English, I'm up to about 10% there, and slipping fast.
Probem is, the authentic core meanings really are there, but they are multidimensional, and they grow just a tad more quicly than you do.

 

[jerryd]

Hello first to Candid and thanking you all for a response, #1 ,I seek not 100% accuracy and hope for only a modicum of objectivity reality in my Pragmatic world of Enigmatic seeking of truth. Candid; My 30 year background in Medical technology has proven to me science is the stepchild of Metaphysics if for no other reason, just because of mans improfections.

As for seeking the Orical's origin? I havent a clue, documenting its validity is something I am in the process of learning through you and others here. As for intuition I believe it is an inate guift of reflex thinking to which we all possess adjusted in time as wisdom accumulated and then is replaced by other truths.
I will seek out the Hex material you have posted and learn.

 

[jerryd]

Pagan, semantic social dialectic is the bane of human kind and I fall fowel to it more often than I would like to admit. I suppose if we were ment to have a clear and proper method of communication through out all societies we would be still grunting and pointing growling and spitting much like some politicians I have heard lately. I am taken back you said you have discussed this topic with your son! I am past 60 and have only just thought of this, he must be well and truly brilliant or guifted, my hats off to you both.

 

[jerryd]

Bradford, Thanking you for your years of insight and the time you have taken to wish me another 50 years of study. At 110+ I will be of no use to no one save the medical world and Guinnes Book..LOL

I did not realize I was in the presence of greatness when I found this wonderous sight of knowledge and intellect. Bradford I fully recognize what you have said of your learning experience and hope to find the remnance of the knowledge you may have forgotten.

I have found each of us access information in different ways and gleen from it fragments and pieces to be used as best we can. Learning from anothers experience is the best way for me to add to my knowledge base. I now find I have some time to do just this. Thank you again for all your input to this child of learning.

 

[midaughter]

In my own writings I have tried to establish the Yi in place - especially that of the Yellow River, its origins - that of prehistory, its many cultures - cultures that believe or really assume that the mechanism by which the oracle works is chi or qi (not the mathematical western model), its spiritual underpinings - that of Taoism, Buddhism, and shamanism.

I consider Wilhelm-Baynes the best text available and the commentary seems to be the most ancient, accurate, and mystical.

Third, I kept a journal of my readings so I could be a Monday morning quarterback - trial and error. To hasten this, I used the technique of total immersion. That is, using the Yi in all aspects of life sometimes with great effect, sometimes mistakes!

Last, meditation on the hexagrams and images which can be both sitting meditation and moving meditation on the hexagrams such as done by the teacher Dai Lu.

 

[jerryd]

Sunpuerh, a bow and I thank you for you input. I believe in the spirit of the clouds as they carry the dust of the ages which rain the truth upon us all. It's absorption rate is perportionate to the ability to believe there is knowledge without explination and wisdom only a few will accept.

I wish all who read thes words a New year filled with clearity and a daily dose of humality tempered with ability and insightfulness.