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What to Do about Mother's Controlling Behaviour? 58 uc

marybluesky

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My mother has a controlling personality which is very hard to deal with as it's combined with religious beliefs, bipolar disorder and obsessive-compulsive tendencies.

Her BP has worsened since about ten months. We visited her doctor many times but she doesn't heal as much as expected.

I want to leave home. I'm 30 now, don't want to live forever in my parental house, and want have a life of my own. I dreamed about than since I was 17. I live in a traditional society where many young people live with their parents until marriage, and the girls specially have a difficult time separating from families, have a modern sex life, etc.

That said, my mother harshly opposes my decision, saying that she won't allow me to leave home as long as she's alive unless I'm married. I'm under great emotional, psychological pressure. She doesn't debate logically, just repeats her words and somehow threatens me. She wants everything to be her way, and clearly says she would persist on her behaviour until everything is corrected!

My father had agreed with me, even offered assistance; but after my mother talked to him and "pushed his buttons" he changed his opinion and is against my decision now. I feel very bad, I feel she's imposing her beliefs and lifestyle on me.

I asked the I Ching: How to deal with my mother? And got 58uc.

'Lakes joined together: Opening.
A noble one joins with friends to speak and practise together.'


Then how? She's not willing to listen. She's traditional and opinionated. And she's unstable.

I also asked: Will I be able to move out and have my own home in one month, despite my mother's opposition? and got 19.5> 60.

"Realization nearing, good fortune."
Nice indeed. However I'm afraid I can't.

I'm going through hard days full of anxiety.

What do you think?
 

Olga Super Star

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Hi BlueSky,

In my experience 58 is an invitation to communicate, exchange.. it also has a feeling of having fun together
It reminds me of summer at the beach.

Do you live near a beach? Perhaps you could take your Mom to the sea and enjoy some time together and then talk about your feelings.

Would living with a friend increase her willingness to let you go?
 

Trojina

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"Realization nearing, good fortune."
Nice indeed. However I'm afraid I can't.

Yes you can if you have the money there's nothing to stop you. I say this without reference to the reading, of course you can leave, few people could tolerate living in the parental home till this age, it's just not good for you. What is more your parents have no say in whether you go or not.

I'd be inclined to see the 58 as the reality of this, you need to nurse the reality of this, feel it in your bones and be happy, be joyful as this idea of leaving is a joyful thing for you. Talk about it to yourself, your friends, us but don't inhibit your progress by talking about it to your parents.


I asked the I Ching: How to deal with my mother? And got 58uc.

'Lakes joined together: Opening.
A noble one joins with friends to speak and practise together.'


Then how? She's not willing to listen. She's traditional and opinionated. And she's unstable.

The reality is she actually has no say in the matter so in fact the question is bypassed, you don't need to deal with her you just need to go ahead and do it. So leave and then deal with the relationship from the safe distance of your own place.



That said, my mother harshly opposes my decision, saying that she won't allow me to leave home as long as she's alive unless I'm married.

I'm appalled. This is .....worlds fail me, what century are we in ? How the heck does she think she can stop you leaving, you aren't 5 years old.


I also asked: Will I be able to move out and have my own home in one month, despite my mother's opposition? and got 19.5> 60.

"Realization nearing, good fortune."
Nice indeed. However I'm afraid I can't.

Yes of course you can. The only reasons you can't will be

1. not enough money for deposit and rent
2. you can't find a suitable place
3. you don't have work as many landlords won't take people who aren't employed.

1. tough but not necessarily insurmountable, where there's a will there's a way and maybe more time with dad may help.
2. that can take time so look now
3. can be got around by signing up with an agency

If none of these are an issue you go girl :cheer:- go now - go on you cannot live like this. You can be so much happier and the readings don't look like there's much in your way.

I'm going through hard days full of anxiety.

Anxiety can be part of joy, try switching from anxiety to the joy of freedom to be you in your own life on your own terms.



You could try talking to her again but to be honest she doesn't own you like some kind of slave so she has no right to hold you prisoner. Why would you even need to persuade her ?
 
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Olga Super Star

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19.5 is auspicious in what you want to do I think.
60 is limiting and drawing lines so that you divide spaces if I am correct.

So I would say you have to start drawing lines between your life and your Mother ‘s (ah ah ah, I have been trying to do that for 20 years. Got some small improvement though!).

19 approaching. Approaching what you want?

I have to confess I had this line regarding acting and no acting has approached me - yet. But I hope yours turns out differently.
 

moss elk

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I asked the I Ching: How to deal with my mother? And got 58uc.


Mary,
when I was a teenager, I had to leave my mother's home due to her mental illness and her husbands violence. I got a little job and moved in with my friends in order to afford rent.

The jun zi joins with friends...
 

marybluesky

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Do you live near a beach? Perhaps you could take your Mom to the sea and enjoy some time together and then talk about your feelings.

Would living with a friend increase her willingness to let you go?
No, we don't live near the sea, and even if we did, it was unlikely to solve the problem. She opposes me moving out, with or without friends; although I prefer to go alone myself.

I'd be inclined to see the 58 as the reality of this, you need to nurse the reality of this, feel it in your bones and be happy, be joyful as this idea of leaving is a joyful thing for you. Talk about it to yourself, your friends, us but don't inhibit your progress by talking about it to your parents.
Yes the idea of leaving is a very, very joyful thing for me. And I do talk about with my friends to strengthen my will and find a solution.

I'm appalled. This is .....worlds fail me, what century are we in ? How the heck does she think she can stop you leaving, you aren't 5 years old.
I see, I'm appalled to. The thing is, I live in a developing country where the idea of a girl living alone was taboo until recently. Even now many families don't allow it; as the matter of sex outside marriage is taboo too, and the first thing they think about is the girl having sex with men who aren't her husband in her new house.
I'm absolutely against this culture, and of course won't suppress my dreams for it. But when such a culture exists, people can abuse it, as the surroundings support them.
Other than that I'm seriously afraid that my mother does something crazy and dangerous, like harming herself or others, coming to my new house and destroy my reputation, etc; as she is unstable. She's done it in the past. I have to take my furniture from here if I find a house, and I guess she would do anything she can to prevent it. The symptoms of her mental illness, the tense look in her eyes, her words which are spoken with that mad stubbornness, her beliefs really scare me. She can have a nervous breakdown as a result.
I'm not saying these are good reasons for not leaving, no. But some of her actions paralyze me.

If none of these are an issue you go girl :cheer:- go now - go on you cannot live like this. You can be so much happier and the readings don't look like there's much in your way.
I've none of the problems above, and that can be a reason why I waited until now to leave. Our cities and houses are largely designed for families, not single people, because of the culture I talked about. The apartments are large, and the prices high; so you usually need a large amount of money to mortgage or rent one, specially if you want it to have good quality. Plus, the economic situation is bad.
Anyway, I made it :)

Anxiety can be part of joy, try switching from anxiety to the joy of freedom to be you in your own life on your own terms.
I hope I'm in that house as soon as possible.

You could try talking to her again but to be honest she doesn't own you like some kind of slave so she has no right to hold you prisoner. Why would you even need to persuade her ?
Logically I don't. I wanted to be in good terms with my family when leaving them.
 

rosada

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Will I be able to move out in one month?
Realization NEARING, good. Fortune.

Maybe not as quickly as one month but soon.
Astrologically the planet Jupiter ruling expansion and travel is next to Pluto, the planet ruling death and rebirth making you very aware it’s time for a change. However both of these planets are retrograde until the end of September suggesting things will more easily change and move forward then. Furthermore and perhaps more importantly Saturn, the ruler of authority and tradition is a the first degree of Aquarius now the sign of groups and equality pointing to your sence that you want to be treated as an equal adult in your family group. However Saturn is also retrograde now and will be going backwards into Capricorn before it turns direct suggesting the old rules have to be honored a bit longer. Interestingly, Saturn also turns direct the end of September so you may find this will be when the doors open up for you or it may be a couple of months more as these planets need to move passed the point they were at when they first turned retrograde to be moving full speed ahead so it might even be January before you feel you‘re able to move out. The main thing is it does look as if your change is going to come. Meanwhile moving out before
the planets turn direct in September may be very frustrating - like you can’t find a place better than where you are now or even if you move out the issues with the parents continue whereas if you delay until October the move isn’t as traumatic.

Do you have your own room at your parent’s house? Put a lock on the door. This is a feng shui trick for making your room an apartment and energetically you are no longer living in their house but are now living in your own separate home. Do you call your parents “Mom” and “Dad”? Consider calling them by their first names or give them nick names like “Friend” or “Captain” - something to awaken your unconscious that you are no longer dependent like a child.

Saturn can be urging you to consider what responsibilities you still need to fulfill before moving on. Your folks may think you are responsible for staying forever so you may not ever get their agreement but if you know in your heart you have completed your promise then you may see a new path. You might ask the I Ching “What do I need to do, complete, before moving on?” Also “Describe my path to moving into my own place.”
 
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Trojina

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Rosada without knowing the time, date place of birth of the individual you simply can't offer this astrological reading with any integrity. Also it's not an astrology forum.


Meanwhile moving out before
the planets turn direct in September may be very frustrating - like you can’t find a place better than where you are now or even if you move out the issues with the parents continue whereas if you delay until October the move isn’t as traumatic.


You can't imagine you can tell people what they will or won't be able to do based on Saturn when you don't know where it is in their chart, what points of their chart it is transiting and what is more even if you did you'd have no idea how it would play out.

I think it's really negative to have such a fatalistic attitude, astrology shouldn't be like that. But I do know about astrology and I think that telling people generally, applying your ideas about Saturn to the whole population is as unreal as the newspaper horoscopes.

You can't even give anyone an astrological reading without knowing their detail and all this stuff about 'oh dear Saturn is going to block you' means nothing when you apply it to every single person in the world.
 

Trojina

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Saturn can be urging you to consider what responsibilities you still need to fulfill before moving on.


That's meaningless - completely meaningless I mean Saturn is always there all the time and you have no idea what house her Saturn is in or what sign or anything.


Do you have your own room at your parent’s house? Put a lock on the door. This is a feng shui trick for making your room an apartment and energetically you are no longer living in their house but are now living in your own separate home. Do you call your parents “Mom” and “Dad”? Consider calling them by their first names or give them nick names like “Friend” or “Captain” - something to awaken your unconscious that you are no longer dependent like a child.


I think if it were all that quick and easy no one would have a problem.
 
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Freedda

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Mary, looking at this through the lens of the trigrams (which is perhaps a perspective that is diffdernt than the text of the Yi), here you have trigram Lake above trigram Lake.

Thinking of you as the inner Lake and your mom as the outer Lake, this could be saying that each of you - in your own way - is trying to find a way to be happy. However, as you describe the situation, I think it is you who has more control and say-so over how you go about doing this.

It might also be suggesting in a straightfoward and uncomplicated way that to deal with this situation you need an inner attitude of happiness and also that you act this way towards your outside world - in this case, your mom.

The fact that you have no moving lines I see as a sign that this is totally do-able and achievable for you. But I also think the 'gap' between the realities of your happiness and your mom's is going to take some time, clarity and patience to navigate.

Stepping away from the reading for a bit, my mom is no longer alive, but at times we had a difficult relationship, in part because I found her so controlling - and in reaction to that, I pushed back on everything, even when she was doing something nice! At one point, someone suggested that I try just going along with what she wanted .... so, one visit I did just that:

She would ask me to do something, and I'd just do it; she'd sugggest a certain restaurant to eat at and would want to pay my bill, and again, I just went along .... and so forth. And I found that this really changed my visit, and I think my attitude towards her 'control'. A few years later she developed Alzheimer's and I became her primary caregiver, and I was very thankful that this particular dynamic of our relationship was much healed.

And I suppose - tying it back to the reading - what I did could be described as having a more positive attitude / relationship towards my mon, which brings us back to trigram Lake.

all the best ....
 
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Trojina

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I see, I'm appalled to. The thing is, I live in a developing country where the idea of a girl living alone was taboo until recently. Even now many families don't allow it; as the matter of sex outside marriage is taboo too, and the first thing they think about is the girl having sex with men who aren't her husband in her new house.

Oh God - do they even leave you room to breathe

I'm absolutely against this culture, and of course won't suppress my dreams for it. But when such a culture exists, people can abuse it, as the surroundings support them.
Other than that I'm seriously afraid that my mother does something crazy and dangerous, like harming herself or others, coming to my new house and destroy my reputation, etc; as she is unstable. She's done it in the past. I have to take my furniture from here if I find a house, and I guess she would do anything she can to prevent it. The symptoms of her mental illness, the tense look in her eyes, her words which are spoken with that mad stubbornness, her beliefs really scare me. She can have a nervous breakdown as a result.
I'm not saying these are good reasons for not leaving, no. But some of her actions paralyze me.

If you are afraid of her you have to get away even more otherwise she is stealing your life from you. You can't live like that.
 

rosada

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Trogina -

Saturn is a very slow moving planet and takes 2 1/2 years to go through a sign and 28 - 30 years to circle the entire zodiac. Therefore even without knowing person's exact birth date it is possible to guesstimate where Saturn is in their chart if you know how old they are. Mary tells us she is 30 so she was born somewhere around 1990 when Saturn was in Capricorn - Aquarius. exactly where Saturn is back to in the sky today. This line up of planets where Saturn is in the same place as it was when a person was born is known as one's Saturn Return and hits every individual around the ages of 28 -30. It is considered to be a very difficult time as the emphasis on Saturn often brings situations to the fore that must be dealt with before a person can move forward in their lives and new responsiibilities taken on during a Saturn Return may require much more effort to get handled than originally anticipated. People can learn more about this aspect by googling "Saturn Return" but briefly just think of it as a harsh reality time when every T must be crossed, every I dotted, every paper signed and often there are delays. Nothing should be left to luck or chance. Starting not just at the bottom but in the basement!
However, while it is interesting that Mary has Saturn conjuncting her birth Saturn right now which makes her particularly subject to Saturn's authoritative vibe, that was not what I was referring to when I said "Saturn may be urging you to consider what responsibilities you need to fulfill before moving on." I was looking at the fact that Saturn is retrograde, that is, it appears to be moving backwards, at the first degrees of Aquarius, the sign of freewill and individual responsibility and going back into Capricorn, the sign of rules and governmental authority. So issues about freewill having to deal with governmental authority are coming up for all of us this spring (Lock down? Face masks?) but particularly for Mary the issues are manifesting up close and personal with the authoritative parents. The solution or way to navigate this time is to be particularly conscious about making and fulfilling agreements. Saturn is the planet of debts and limitations so one can't go forward until agreements are kept. For Mary this could refer to her mother trying to impose the idea that Mary is somehow obligated to live at home and Saturn is urging her to consider if that really is truly her responsibility - and if it isn't, what is her responsibility? To pay rent? To clean the house? Or maybe she should recognize where she may have been acting as if she agreed to this and now she needs to be more authoritative herself. This Saturn placement could also be a heads up about signing new rental agreements. Many times when Saturn is present one takes on financial obligations that prove to be burdensome and this may be keeping Mary fearful of even looking for alternatives. Yet with a little inginuity Saturn can also bring opportunities that require very little money at all. Like finding a room to rent in exchange for some small service. The key is to know what your basic needs are and keep things very simple and expenses down to the bone (Saturn rules bones!). And as I mentioned, it may be useful now (for all of us!) to ask oneself, "What have I promised to do that I haven't done yet?" because Saturn rules debt and Saturn will shortly be back in Capricorn at the very last degree of that sign and thus things will have a way of ending on a Saturn note. Our daily activities will end with a sense that old things need to be completed before new roads open up.
The responsibilities Mary may feel need to be completed may not have anything to do with the relationship with the parents. Mary may have promised herself she would jog 1 mile every day but she's put off doing it. So now she remembers that vow, goes out jogging and -wah la! - she sees a room for rent sign! By fulfilling the commitment (to herself) a new opportunity appears.
Anyway, I hope this answers your concerns and if you want to discuss astrology or feng shui further let's chat in the Exploring Divination area. I only mentioned astrology here as Mary's question concerned when she might expect to be able to move and I thought sharing what astrology might have to offer would be useful. Didn't mean to high jack the thread!
 
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B

becalm

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Astrologically the planet Jupiter ruling expansion and travel is next to Pluto, the planet ruling death and rebirth making you very aware it’s time for a change. However both of these planets are retrograde until the end of September suggesting things will more easily change and move forward then. Furthermore and perhaps more importantly Saturn, the ruler of authority and tradition is a the first degree of Aquarius now the sign of groups and equality pointing to your sence that you want to be treated as an equal adult in your family group. However Saturn is also retrograde now and will be going backwards into Capricorn before it turns direct suggesting the old rules have to be honored a bit longer. Interestingly, Saturn also turns direct the end of September so you may find this will be when the doors open up for you or it may be a couple of months more as these planets need to move passed the point they were at when they first turned retrograde to be moving full speed ahead so it might even be January before you feel you‘re able to move out. The main thing is it does look as if your change is going to come. Meanwhile moving out before
the planets turn direct in September may be very frustrating - like you can’t find a place better than where you are now or even if you move out the issues with the parents continue whereas if you delay until October the move isn’t as traumatic.

Saturn can be urging you to consider what responsibilities you still need to fulfill before moving on. Your folks may think you are responsible for staying forever so you may not ever get their agreement but if you know in your heart you have completed your promise then you may see a new path. You might ask the I Ching “What do I need to do, complete, before moving on?” Also “Describe my path to moving into my own place.”

Thanks Rosada - a lot of the questions on the forum at present seem to reflect my own present 'energetic' experiences. I'm doing my best to hang in there and had asked the question in my head about "What do I need to do, complete, before moving on?” because I really really never ever want to find myself in these seemingly toxic situations that seem to have been following me around for years.
 
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becalm

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I asked the I Ching: How to deal with my mother? And got 58uc.

'Lakes joined together: Opening.
A noble one joins with friends to speak and practise together.'


Then how? She's not willing to listen. She's traditional and opinionated. And she's unstable.

The answer is Bring yourself Joy in whatever way YOU want. If it's with friends, moving out, doing art, whatever it is Bring Joy just for you. By listening to her BS and staying there is not right at all....it's your life!!
I had a horrible mother and the way I dealt with her was to tell her in no uncertain words to get lost, I grieved the loss of never having a daughter/mother relationship and got on with my life. I never had anything to do with her again and forgave her in my own Heart. She died 12 months ago and according to my oldest son, she died as a bitter old woman.....not my issue, hers. It helped me further to grow in myself because I don't want to die with awfulness in my own Heart.
 

bologna_tendra

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This poses difficult and important questions. I Ching is a tool for helping the individual and discerning one's path and destiny perhaps - but there are some societal structures that put the individual person in a kind of straitjacket.
You can see your mother as a victim in a sense of the society - that she is not psychically in good shape is perhaps not a surprise as there are probably many dreams and visions of her own she had to repress and bury in order to go along with the flow of things in that place. She is psychically captive to the extent she consciously wishes to extend the situation to the next generation - although on some subconscious level she must know it's not right, hence the psychic problems and the lack of peace in her.

Don't forget the line in the Jimmy Hendrix song when he says "I'm the one that's gonna have to die when its time for me to die". Ultimately the consequences of your decisions will be borne by yourself. So whatever you choose you might want to think in those terms ; "could I live with this, 30 years from now, 40 years from now?" etc. when you are old. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Top_Five_Regrets_of_the_Dying - in this book the number one regret of the dying is "I wish I'd had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of me". This takes courage anywhere on earth - but for you living in a traditional society, it will likely require extra courage.

For 58 it says this in one of the commentaries: The essence of true joy is inner stability. Being firmly devoted to our path, we do not waver. When we think of the soft and comfortable path, on the other hand, self-conflict begins. Therefore, getting this hexagram indicates that we may be wavering or irresolute.
For your second question, 19.5 it sounds like you can do it. Some of the commentaries mention getting able helpers.
 

Trojina

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Saturn is a very slow moving planet and stays 2 1/2 years in each sign so even without knowing person's exact birthdate it is possible to guesstimate where Saturn is in their chart if you know how old they are.

Why are you telling me things I knew over forty years ago that you know I know. Saturn is not a very slow moving planet as compared to Uranus and Neptune.

If you don't know what the Ascendant is, that is the rising sign you won't know

1. which house her Saturn is in
2. it's aspects to the angles and the other planets



Mary tells us she is 30 so she was born somewhere around 1990 when Saturn was in Capricorn - Aquarius. exactly where Saturn is in the sky again today. This line up of planets where Saturn is in the same place as it was when a person was born is known as is known as one's Saturn Return and hits every individual around the ages of 28 -30.

You are writing as if I don't know what a Saturn return is nor the significance of it. This is odd given I have told you a number of times I have studied astrology . I've lived thorough several Saturn returns, I know what they are.

It is considered to be a very difficult time as the emphasis on Saturn often brings situations to the fore that must be dealt with before a person can move forward in their lives and new responsiibilities taken on during a Saturn Return may require much more effort to get handled than originally anticipated. People can learn more about this aspect by googling "Saturn Return" but briefly just think of it as a harsh reality time when every T must be crossed, every I dotted, every paper signed and often there are delays. Nothing should be left to luck or chance.


Saturn returns needn't be all that bad and, if you are actually reading this which I doubt because I have told you so many time I have studied astrology and you still write back as if I know nothing.....and you have to explain all about a Saturn return.



People can learn more about this aspect by googling "Saturn Return" but briefly just think of it as a harsh reality time when every T must be crossed, every I dotted, every paper signed and often there are delays. Nothing should be left to luck or chance.

This really is so generalised from very basic cookbook astrology. It's not true

The reason it is not true is

1. How a person experiences their Saturn return depends on many other factors in their chart.

A well aspected Saturn may indicate taking on responsibility for oneself in a good way

2. To be clear I am talking about Saturn's placement in the chart. I'm not sure if you understand how a natal chart is drawn up but how Saturn is placed, the house and the aspects to the angles and the other planets matters. Also one has to take into account current transits too.

You can't just say 'oh yeah everyone who is around 30 has to cross the ts and dot the is and it's going to be really hard' because it's over generalised.




So issues about freewill vs. governmental authority are coming up for all of us this spring (Lock down? Face masks?) but particularly for Mary the issues are manifesting up close and personal with the authoritative parents.

It really doesn't mean anything to say issues about freewill vs governmental authority are 'coming up for all of us'. They are always going to be coming up for some people somewhere in the world. Whether you regard face masks as an imposition of governmental authority depends where you live. You did in the US doesn't mean everyone does.


Every 30 year old or thereabouts in the entire world will be having a Saturn return - actually there can be quite a wide variation between ages 28-30 for Saturn returns

Mary tells us she is 30 so she was born somewhere around 1990 when Saturn was in Capricorn - Aquarius. exactly where Saturn is in the sky again today.

. You don't know what degree of what sign her Saturn was in when she was born.

I go to my ephemeris for 1990.

So in 1990 Saturn started in January at 15 degrees Capricorn moved through to 25 degrees Capricorn in May 1990 then went retrograde on 4th May 1990. It then moved backwards, yes I know that's what 'retrograde' means. It went direct again on the 23rd September. At no point in 1990 did Saturn enter Aquarius. On the last day of 1990 it was 25 degrees Capricorn.


So if Mary was born in 1990 her Saturn could not have been in Aquarius at birth. Currently Saturn is in Aquarius so Mary possibly already had her Saturn return some time before March 2020. If Saturn moved back and forth between 15 degrees Capricorn and 25 degrees Capricorn in 1990 then Mary's Saturn return could have been any time between February 2019 and February 2020. A Saturn return for someone born in 1990 could have been done with by the end of February 2020. Saturn does return to Capricorn in July 2020 but to the later degrees of Capricorn so as we don't know where Mary's Saturn was at birth we can't say whether or not she already had it some time ago. If her Saturn was 16 degrees Capricorn then her Saturn return has already happened.

I don't want to discuss it further because of thread hijack
 
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rosada

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I note you have reported my post to Hilary and I have assured her that if she finds my analysis of 19.5 and astrological comments inappropriate I will not be offended if she removes it.
I want to apologize to you for giving you the impression I did not appreciate the depth of your knowledge of astrology. I was explaining my thought process in detail as I figured there might also be other readers here and they might better understand my thinking if I included some basic astrological info.
I also note that Marybluesky gave my reading a thumbs up click so hopefully no harm done!
 

Trojina

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Ah I thought you were responding to me especially since you said at the end


Anyway, I hope this answers your concerns and if you want to discuss astrology or feng shui further let's chat in the Exploring Divination area.



I want to apologize to you for giving you the impression I did not appreciate the depth of your knowledge of astrology. I was explaining my thought process in detail as I figured there might also be other readers here and they might better understand my thinking if I included some basic astrological info.

I was the one raising the issue so it was natural to think you were answering me

I note you have reported my post to Hilary and I have assured her that if she finds my analysis of 19.5 and astrological comments inappropriate I will not be offended if she removes it.

Well no I reported it to you as much as Hilary since I know you are a moderator, the only one, and so I know you will read it. To report a post is a way of going directly to you since only you and Hilary can see reported posts.

I don't think it makes any sense to remove the post, it's not offensive and it's there for the querent. I'm just pointing out the issue I had with it




I also note that Marybluesky gave my reading a thumbs up click so hopefully no harm done!

Yup but regardless of how she found it I wanted to say something to you about it.
 
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marybluesky

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Thanks friends.

I asked "How to move out so that my mother doesn't harm and prevent me?" and got 36.1.3>2

36.1: To "hide my brightness"- not to be upright about my decision, but preparing for it without attracting others' attention, ask for help from authorities if needed,
36.3:
"Wing: You come face to face with the perpetrator of wrong thinking. Circumstances are such that you can effortlessly seize control of the situation. Proceed carefully. It is dangerous to attempt to abolish an old and ingrained pattern all at once."
I'm puzzled about the last sentence- should I stay and lose more time just because my mother doesn't approve of my decision? She won't change, I know. I've lived with her for 30 years.
 

rosada

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I think these lines are advising you to consider that you may have to make your move secretively, even to the point of not even saying goodbye or even announcing you are going - just leaving the house one day and (2) giving no forwarding address.
While 36.3 "It is dangerous to attempt to abolish old patterns all at once" could be saying don't bother trying to talk Mom into giving you her blessing, it could also be saying that you have been so conditioned to be a good daughter that you have a hard time standing up for yourself and this is the pattern that has to change and this may take time even after you move out. So maybe a warning to be prepared and that even after you move you need to keep your guard up or you may get talked into moving back.
 

Trojina

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Yes do it covertly. You have to go by your own experience of your mother and what she will likely do. You can't focus on moving out and setting up a new home whilst simultaneously trying to placate your mother, it's too much

Line 3 is quite clear, Hilary's translation from wikiwing


'Brightness hidden hunting in the south.
Gets their great leader.
Hasty steadfastness not possible.'

So you are the prince in the darkened situation taking covert action to escape danger. The line says you tackle the main thing, you get the 'great leader' but that doesn't mean all your problems are solved. I see that as advice to deal with the main issue, getting out of there and then tackle all the subsidiary problems. I think I have a wiki entry on this will post - oh here it is on quite a mundane issue but it captures the spirit of the line

Example. A regular due payment had not been made to my account causing hardship. I made some calls to investigate and correct the problem. I was told there was an error which would be dealt with with some investigation. Some time later I wondered if I really needed to chase it up a bit more vigorously the following day since I was afraid of my 'case' getting lost in the system. I understood 36.3 as indicating that would not be necessary. A few days later I checked and the payment had been reinstated. The action I had initially taken to correct things was sufficient . Trojan

Moving out won't mean everything just feels fine all at once but the main issue will have been dealt with with the rest to follow



I'm puzzled about the last sentence- should I stay and lose more time just because my mother doesn't approve of my decision? She won't change, I know. I've lived with her for 30 years.

No not if you are able to go. If you really want to go approach it as a covert operation, establish your base.
This could mean for example you have to leave some furniture as i can't see how that can be moved covertly, but that can be sorted out in time.


Are you clear that you want to leave ? I think it's incredibly hard because part of you still may need her or need to protect her but from what you say she's eating your life up in a selfish way. You don't owe her your entire life.

In line 1 you are on a mission and it will get talked about but...well I will quote Hilary's translation and commentary on the line

'Brightness hiding, flying away
Drooping his wings.
The noble one is on the move,
For three days, eats nothing
Has a direction to go
The people in authority have something to say.'

Flying away not only to escape, 'under the radar', but also with a positive purpose, a direction to go and great things to achieve. Not eating means not stopping, not taking other things (ideas, complications) on board; staying single-minded.

Those 'in authority', lord-people (same 'lord' as in Hexagram 2's Oracle), are literally people with lamps. Those who preside over a given space, those who set the tone. Perhaps eating nothing for three days is a way to leave the 'host', the opinion-shaper, behind. The bird lowers its wings, the noble one on the move avoids socialising; they present a smaller target.

36 zhi Hexagram 15, Brightness hiding with authenticity and humility: a realistic knowledge of one's own capacity; no desire to make any particular impression


If you really want this Mary do it even if it means some difficulties like leaving things behind. I think line 3 would show you can sort all those other things out later.

What of 2 as relating here ? I feel it could indicate there's far less interference in this 'operation' than you might fear if you just follow your instinct. I feel it as almost life/death situation for you. You cannot let your life be taken from you by the demands of your mother.

Also whilst there may be uproar once you've gone in time no doubt you will be able to offer her some care and support but when you have your own base to return to
 

marybluesky

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UPDATE:

Hello friends;
I moved out!
Now the readings:

I asked the I Ching: How to deal with my mother? And got 58uc.
I just didn't engage in conversations about moving out anymore; BUT 58 is made of two triagram lakes which indicate the young sister- the presence of my younger sister who supported the idea boosted my spirit a lot.

I also asked: Will I be able to move out and have my own home in one month, despite my mother's opposition? and got 19.5> 60.
I leased the apartment I'm in 10 days ago, before a month being past since my original post. I moved in yesterday, slightly later than a month :)

I asked "How to move out so that my mother doesn't harm and prevent me?" and got 36.1.3>2
I took the necessary steps silently. Only my sister knew about it. The day of relocation I intended to leave home with a backpack and my laptop bag, as if I was going to a journey; my mother suspected I was moving out. I delayed, waiting for an opportunity to exit covertly. She then started to talk about the matter and after knowing that I had already leased the apartment, asked me to let her come to my new home, clean it and give me some utensil. I resisted first, then my dad joined the conversation and we came here together.
They helped me a lot.
I want to add my mother is more stable than a month ago as she has started to take Fluoxetine which she hadn't used since several months.

Thank a lot everyone. I was really frustrated when I started the thread, and doubted my ability to go after my wishes.
:grouphug:
 

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